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6:00 AM
"before" and "after" is already presented below
repeating it above makes no sense
we don't put the tags above and below
Doesn't seem to make much sense in context there though.
@waffles I would like to see a rev that puts the tag and title edits on each side the same as the body edits, but that's just me.
Well for starters we could be using ins and del here instead
@RebeccaChernoff Yes, it's not immediately obvious to me why an anonymous edit should need less rep to approve...
6:02 AM
nor to me @Benjol
@YiJiang yeah I may change that ... its my manual diff algorithm
oops, I know. Sockpuppets
I guess because there's nobody to game the rep.
But it still seems soooo backwards.
@rebecca Great minds ;)
@waffles I just noticed that all of SO's revision history uses that >_<
6:03 AM
I keep saying that rep for edits is a bad idea, but no one listens sniff
@YiJiang I'm gonna guess there's a tool in use there ;)
Heh, maybe its easier for an anonymous user to get an edit approved than it is for a registered user
@RebeccaChernoff so assign the rep to Community ;)
/facepalm I learn something new about SO's abuse of HTML every day
@Benjol its going to be very limited ... you will never be able to get rich from editing, just bootstrap a bit
6:04 AM
within a week Community will be in the top x% of the site hehehehe
@Kragen that's the effect it has, which seems to be punishing our own users that have taken the time to register.
checked in less sucky approve reject buttons :)
Doesn't feel like a good message. ):
@waffles so where can we test a new version?
on the site in 15 minutes when Jeff deploys :)
or less
6:05 AM
@RebeccaChernoff Well the whole needing 2 users to approve an edit thing seems far too much like low rep users punishing high rep users who want to edit a question, but it was discussed extensively yesterday...
@Kragen you give too much credit to low-rep users colluding against higher rep users
besides, I can get someone to push an edit so I can reedit by visiting any of three chatrooms
:471135 tab to autocomplete
somebody approved the list edit
@drachenstern Bu...bu... all the low rep users keep on picking on me!!!
6:07 AM
@Kragen 20k users have one click approve ... you can one click approve anon edits as well
we are slowly adjusting the system into a workable rule
@waffles Oh how I envy you - our release cycle is more like 15 days...
lol ours are more like 15 minutes ... on a slow day :)
Hang on, what did you do to the diff styling?
@drachenstern The easiest thing to do is reject, then you can edit without anyone's help :)
Can we get another pending edit? (or if @RebeccaChernoff tells me where I can look with my lowly 3k rep I'll do it myself)
6:09 AM
Jeff changed them ... to be honest the old ones were an eye sore
@Benjol true, but that's not nice to the previous editor
Im out to the beach ... catch ya later
@waffles don't have too much fun ;)
@drachenstern but didn't we just decide it was war? :)
@Benjol so all's fair?
6:10 AM
@drachenstern, oh yes :)
ok, I can tell it's time for nyquil :(
If the system conspires against me doing things the right way, I'll do them the wrong way. and if anyone complains, I'll bludgeon them with a giant
@Benjol No hyphen between by and design :P
hyphen, I see no hyphen?
@drachenstern 1 2 3 4
6:13 AM
Number 2 is ..... awful
Not keen on the → in the Markdown source view
Could you not just put the entire thing in a read-only text box?
Most of the time I copy and paste my edits into a text editor anyway
And monospaced, at that. Anyways, no point commenting now, he's at the beach (or he said he was...)
Something weird happens when the edit you're looking at gets approved while you're viewing
@waffles for your later perusal ... I don't like the accept/reject buttons. Just me.
6:16 AM
The two versions become identical, which left me slightly confused for a while
@YiJiang damn, didn't leave one up so I could see it :(
@YiJiang, ah, that's what's happened to number 2 in @rebecca's list?
@drachenstern What, you preferred just text, not buttons?
@Benjol yes, it fits the flow of EVERY OTHER SIMILAR OPTION ON THE SITE. * ahem *
Show me two other question/comment/answer places that need buttons besides "asking a question", submit or the sitenav at the top?
since ask-a-question is treated the same as sitenav, I don't think it qualifies to be judged as the other actionable items
The width of the pop up box is hugely annoying
6:19 AM
so that only leaves submit, which this is comparable to, except [close|edit|flag|etc]
@Benjol that's not on the site proper tho, and I get your point, you can quit resizing ;)
everyone's screen width is different btw
@drachenstern, trying to line them up good and proper :)
so you're wrapping on me
I see two lines
ok, sorry :)
works on my machine
Post Your Question too, which is a similarly irreversible action
@waffles Here's an idea for you - stop using giant oversized popup boxes, and display the diff inline - actually inline in the post itself, like what you do for the 10k edit tags tool
the other text links don't "do" anything directly (I think)
6:22 AM
@Benjol same as "Ask-a-question" tho
@YiJiang nahhh, I see your point, but no.
just my $0.05 tho
@Benjol the hell they don't. Click "close"
click "flag"
click "edit"
they all do something
@drachenstern When looking at the diff, half the information is already on the screen, behind the popup
@drachenstern, they all open dialogues, they don't DO anything directly.
or do you mean the others all trigger a dialog, not complete an action?
yes, that's what I meant
jinx, I saw your point
just too late
@YiJiang but it flows with the actions of the other dialogs
6:24 AM
@waffles, there's no way (apparently) to kill the "Edit was already approved or rejected"
Anyways, my vote is that's a bad idea. Best part about a democracy type environment is we get to have a say. Best part about SOIS is it's not a democracy ;)
@drachenstern The giant popup with the border is really unnecessary waste of space
@Benjol it doesn't go away on its own?
@YiJiang focuses attention tho doesn't it?
@drachenstern not for me
@Benjol I'll have to pay attention next time. Submit it as a bug on MSO tho
6:26 AM
@Benjol Re: links triggering dialog - untrue, given the link, delete and reopen button all do something directly (the delete and reopen buttons both trigger a confirm box, but still)
@YiJiang something reversible
@YiJiang also note: comments "edit"
What's the approved tag for this edition-reviewing?
Ok folks, nyquil hour has arrived. A-la-manana
6:30 AM
RFC: Is edition-review a good tag for this functionality? if it is, I'll do a bit of retagging on meta
Or maybe peer-review?
Ok, I've retagged all the questions i could find as edition-review. That way, even if we decide to change, they're all together
Since when are they called "editions"? I think [edit-review] is probably logical
@MichaelMrozek, well there are 24xedit and 389xediting, but I thought editing-review sounded wrong. I guess edit-review would be ok, though I wanted to single out the reviewing part, not the editing part, and also differentiate from the /review page
I don't have sufficient rep to rename a tag though on meta
Is there such a thing? The only way I know to rename a tag is have a mod merge it into another one
ah, I just figured it should be possible :)
how about edit-and-review?
6:45 AM
It's not two separate operations, you're not editing and then reviewing; it's a review of an edit
yes, I guess so. But do we need yet another tag to differentiate 'normal' edits from 'edits requiring approval'?
(just thinking out loud)
[edition-review] ? this is a tag?
that's not even English
how about [suggested-edits]
or [pending-edits]
or [edit-suggestions]
or.. gosh, anything really
Should ask @waffles but he's gone now, I think
waffles came up with that crap tag?
A: How does peer review for edits work?

wafflesWe are experimenting with this feature on Stack Overflow at the moment. For the next few weeks, it may be on or off depending on when you hit the site. As it stands (and this is all subject to change until the feature is formally announced): Who can suggest an edit? Users with 2k rep can mak...

@JeffAtwood No, @Benjol did
6:51 AM
that is the latest infoz on the feature, which is currently on
12 mins ago, by Benjol
Ok, I've retagged all the questions i could find as edition-review. That way, even if we decide to change, they're all together
@JeffAtwood Is there a list of pending edits stashed somewhere?
yes, it's on /review it is just not public yet
That's ok; we don't want these people messing with it
Oh, I can't see it either. Well that's disappointing
@MichaelMrozek, wait a few more days, we're rooting for you :)
6:55 AM
@Benjol It's probably dev-only, but appreciated nonetheless :)
@Jeff, another idea was peer-review, is that better?
the feature is about editing though
@JeffAtwood, yes, I guess I was a bit too eager in my retagging - should have left that question. But for me there are two distinct things - suggested-edits, and reviewing those edits
maybe it's not worth two tags, granted
6:59 AM
So you guys bought a commercial license for the Fugue icons, eh
don't ask me, ask @waffles
Those are definitely better looking than the grey boxes I was seeing earlier
you can try it on
Q: ASP.NET Autoloading user controls without web.config

rymoholikoHi I've got to do autoloading in asp.net 2.0 (but if it's impossible please show me for higher version). In aspx files I've got normal tags like <aaa:BBB ID="ccc" runat="server" /> I've also in web.config added controls like system.web->pages->controls-> <add src="zzz" tagName = "B...

> Edit was already approved or rejected
7:01 AM
meh, that got approved or rejected
Too fast, heh. Can't we set something up like say in the Meta sandbox to do this? Or a demo page that simulates this?
I think the new rule of not allowing anon users to edit anything less than 24 hours old is quite clever
I worry it might be a tad too restrictive though
@JeffAtwood, could just push them into registering, maybe?
but, it certainly turns away bored vandalizers: 90% of the stuff on the home page will not be editable for them
@JeffAtwood Surely the older questions are the ones you want to encourage editing of?
7:03 AM
A little bit of 'something is wrong on the internet' :)
@Kragen exactly
It reminds me of the 2 day rule to delete posts, which I'm less than a fan of
I can understand the motivations though
I understand the purpose though
@MichaelMrozek that is what flagging is for
7:03 AM
Hmmm... I wonder if my lightweight wrapper for the SE API is good enough
The code review site is one day from public beta :(
@YiJiang, oh, do tell, what's this?
@Benjol Creating a lightweight JavaScript wrapper for the SE API together with jQuery. The other libs are frankly, a little heavy for what I have in mind
gist: Lightweight SE API Wrapper, 2011-01-25 07:06:46Z
var apikey = 'xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx',
    apiPrefix = 'http://api.stackoverflow.com/1.0/';

if(!Date.now) {
    Date.now = function () {
        return +new Date();

var api = {
    _stack: [],
    _running: false,
    _lastCallTime: 0,
    _next: function () {
        var nextData = this._stack.shift();
        if(nextData) {
                url: apiPrefix + nextData.route, 
                dataType: 'jsonp',
                jsonp: 'jsonp',
                data: $.extend(nextData.data, {
                    api: apikey
                cache: true,
                context: nextData,
                success: function(data){
                    if(this.totalPage === data.page) {
                    } else if(data.total - (data.page * 100) > 0) {
                        if(Date.now - this._lastCallTime < 200) {
                            setTimeout(api._next, 200);
                        } else {
        } else {
            this._running = false;
    add: function (route, data, count, callback, afterLast){
        var pageCount = ~~(count / 100),
            lastOffset = (count % 100);
        if(lastOffset === 0) pageCount--;
        for(var i = 0; i < pageCount + 1; i++) {
                'route': route,
                'data': $.extend({
                    page: i + 1,
                    pageSize: ((i === pageCount) ? lastOffset : 100)
                }, data),
                'callback': callback,
                'last': afterLast,
                'totalPage': (pageCount + 1)
        if(!this._running) {
Copied a little too much code into gist, heh
7:21 AM
Can you have DATETIME type parameters in queries on the Stack Overflow Data Explorer?
Whenever I try I just get garbage dates appearing in my query - I can't find any other example queries that do it.
@kragen, don't know to be honest. In fairness (to you), it's not exactly easy to search for queries in there. Have you seen the everything tab? Looks like someones running an automated script or something...
A: How do i access my own MAMP webserver on a VM

injateMake sure your VM is on a bridged connection to your Mac (not natted) and follow these instructions to put MAMP into online mode: "To allow external connections to your server you have to restart WAMP in online mode. Left-click the WAMP icon and select Put Online. Wait for the icon status to ch...

behold: editing as anon user flagging
@Benjol I've just noticed that the data explorer is open source, I might just fix it myself :-)
@Jeff, dunno if it's in your purview, but it looks like someone is running a script on SEDE: data.stackexchange.com/meta/…
and all the pages since...
did @waffles not rate limit that?
I forsee beatings
7:33 AM
@JeffAtwood, well they're taking their time, they've been at it since Jan 16th (page 991)
@JeffAtwood I hope that edit isn't indicative of the sorts of edits we are going to get :-S
help me brainstorm some auto-mod-flag scenarios
1) user posts something of 25,000+ characters (new post only)
2) more than (x) comments on a post in (y) time interval
3) more than (x) edits on a post in (y) time interval
.. what else
Does edit/rollback/edit/rollback count in 3) ?
a nuisance to check for, but very similar text (x) times in (y) time interval
7:37 AM
@MarcGravell are you thinking of dupe question askers
actually I was thinking of the people who drop the same answer on every question in a specific field "hey, try new PeptoViews!"
4) the last (n) posts contain the same URL
insults in comments? :)
Any profanity - profanity filters suck, but you could at least flag the post.
7:43 AM
@JeffAtwood, what's this for - because people aren't flagging enough?
no, this is to get more timely mod intervention on things that might not get flagged for whatever reason
Not sure I follow - surely user created flags are always going to be a better indication (and therefore a priority) than auto-generated flags.
@JeffAtwood, well, two or more people slugging it out in comments is typically a case where none of them will bother to flag until it's too late...
but I guess that gets caught by 2
But you'd have had tons of flags on election page if that was implemented. (Oh, wait, I think you got tons of flags anyway, right? :))
@kragen not true in my experience, yes some stuff gets flagged but not reliably and not always "in time" to do anything about it
it's the proverbial "tip of the iceberg" issue
the types of scenarios I am describing would be so extreme that when they happen, in my experience, they are almost always bad
e.g. show me the post that got edited 10 times in 5 minutes that is actually not a crappy edit war
show me the 25,000+ character new post that is actually valid.. etc
@JeffAtwood, so are we talking about known unknowns or unknown unknowns? :) scenarios you know about but you're not sure how to detect, or as-yet-unimagined scenarios?
7:55 AM
generally it is "known (almost always) bad"
one problem with suggested edits.. I find myself wanting to edit the edits :(
e.g. they fix the post but they don't remove salutations, clean up "I have a question", etc.
Thanks for admitting it, :)
see this one (DO NOT APPROVE OR REJECT so others can view it too)
Q: How to pause and resume NStimer

Gaurav aka sparshHello Guys! I have a question. How can I pause a countdown using a timer. I am developing a game. In the game, i need to go to next view that time i want to pause timer and after coming back i want to resume it. I try this code in the view: [mytimer pause]; // to resume [mytimer resume]; ...

@codinghorror Interesting concept - I'd like to see how it turns out in the end.
@JeffAtwood That's why we need a "How to edit" page :)
8:01 AM
Heh, the Community duplicate link inserter bot waits for no-one!
Does anyone want to rollback?
And approving the edit blatted the notice too.
@JeffAtwood, re SEDE, should I post a 'bug' on MSO?
cat jumped on desk, needed lovin'
no, I emailed Sam, he will probably fix it
ok, thanks.
8:21 AM
here, have a video of me petting the cat that keeps jumping on my desk right now
People are really bad at tagging...
2007? That's four years ago; cat petting is completely different these days
God, it's raining again. Third time today, urgh
could be worse, Yi. Could be .. much worse.
do not taunt the happy fun ball
What a crappy question. I want to fire people that aren't even working for me.
8:34 AM
project-planning ahahahaha
I've given up caffeine and Google Chrome, in that order.
@JeffAtwood ahahaha! How nice. You need to keep that around as proof you're not a bad man at heart despite your cranky answers. :)
What is it that it says on your T-Shirt? Trachtengruppe ....?
The Trachtenburg Family Slideshow Players describe themselves as an "indie-vaudeville conceptual art-rock pop band", from the United States. Originally from Seattle, Washington, they are now based in New York, New York. The band's members are the Trachtenburg family father, Jason Trachtenburg, who plays guitar and piano and sings; the mother, Tina PiƱa, who runs the slide projector and is a backup singer; and the daughter, Rachel, who plays the drums and sings. Born on December 10, 1993, Rachel was only six years old when she began performing publicly. Their trademark is the slideshow it...
Some people just choose 5 random words from their question and use those as tags, as if someone's going to subscribe to the "error-1082" tag.
do not disparage my favorite tag, sir
8:38 AM
Q: Which Editor/IDE is used at Facebook

peter1985Hey guys, I'm just wondering which Editor/IDE is used at Facebook, because of those reasons: When i'm looking at the videos on the facebook site, I see the most developers using a macbook for there work Facebook has a really big code base (I guess :) ) I mean, at my two screen workspace I'm ...

@JeffAtwood Genres: Anti-folk O_o sounds interesting
Is there a site that's on-topic for?
Need to take a listen
You can't possibly write code without an IDE! Please don't ship that to programmers SE, we have five or six just like it
What kind of coffee machines do they have at Facebook?
@Pekka you mean the espresso machines on every desk in every office hooked up to an IV drip?
I just want 30 more rep... lazy newbies, come back and accept the answers you told me worked for you!
@DanGrossman So you can be at 6k? That's one of the less exciting milestones :)
There are no interesting privileges left :/
Round numbers are my only incentive
Everyone hates on 10k T_T
8:48 AM
I could take back 30 of my downvotes
@DanGrossman that is just evil.
every time you take back a downvote on a crappy question, a kitten cries silvery tears
After 3k, everything is going to be "just nn k away from 10k"
@TimPost Approving edits single-handedly is 20k. Yay for new goals
And now that they're contemplating 20k tools, they'll have the serfs salivating all over again.
@Michael lol, I was just saying ...
And don't forget 11.5k for making it to the election primaries, although that goal is going to go away pretty soon
8:52 AM
@MichaelMrozek it's going to be even more next time, which sucks IMO
@MichaelMrozek The next one is going to be a lot higher
Prevents young blood from ever entering the system
@MichaelMrozek Well, that's dependent on the reputation of the previous nominees isn't it?
I assume they'll work out some sort of magic before next time
@MichaelMrozek probably, yeah
8:53 AM
No need for magic, just make it be META rep :)
@Benjol oh my, that would bring back the fun to Meta!
It makes sense to me to combine meta + site rep for SO elections, though on other sites that's a moot point
Hundreds of candidates using tired memes alien to them to appeal to the crowd :)
@TimPost No other sites have the problem SO has
Yeah, making meta rep important kind of flaunts the whole "meta rep is a joke" theme we've been running with for a long time now
8:54 AM
Meta badges perhaps
Something is seriously messed up with my phone. It won't seem to charge even though it says it's charging. It held over a day's charge yesterday.
For a while my phone was claiming it had no battery when I tried to charge it, but felt free to charge anyway
Anorexic batteries. Bummer.
It just turned itself off completely despite being plugged into the wall
I'd love my phone if I could actually get my keyguard to work when it's in my pocket.
8:56 AM
Want to help somebody write a web server in C#?
Q: self hosting web pages ?

guylhello all. we are trying to build a some program that will sit on the clients servers, then a user will enter a url in his browser that will go to our program on his servers. the program will call some data at our servers and will return an image in his browser is it possible to create under wcf...

OK, it's already tagged IIS so he already knows they exist
Where's that "NUKE!" button? :)
@Pekka Nobody is that .... disconnected. I'm sure he just failed to articulate his problem
@TimPost yeah, probably.

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