Tavern on the Meta

06:00

The accounting is correct, but the display is a disaster. Which is... about par for the course when it comes to deleted posts/deleted votes. I'd have to dig deeper (and unfortunately I have absolutely zero time right now) to see if we could fix this up. Long story short, once a post is deleted, trying to figure out what effect a vote would've had at the time when it wasn't deleted gets real complicated real fast. — Adam Lear ♦ 12 hours ago

@AdamLear It looks like the "accounting" bug has also given a lot of users a heavily inflated ranking in the reputation league pages. Can you please also look into that once you have time?

enderland

Anyways, it is already after 1am and at this point, a "retired" user having this long of conversation reminiscing about the "good ole days" is probably about as strong of anecdotal evidence to what I said way back at the beginning of this conversation about caring about the mission/vision of SE from ages past being deeply meaningful @Aza ;-)

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

awwww's were had all around the earth

user206222

I am having trouble understanding but I think I get your meaning :P

user206222

If it's 1 AM, go sleeep

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@Aza Not too long ago, I used to be nocturnal

user206222

06:06

I'm nocturnal right now! Hello, slightly younger Sonic of yore.

Journeyman Geek

Now I need to get caught up ;p

@Aza errr for?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@Aza What do you mean, "slightly younger Sonic of yore"?

@enderland It's difficult to retire from SE

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog she means you're being nocturnal now ;p

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

The day hasn't yet rolled over in my time zone

user206222

@JourneymanGeek It was removed, dw

Journeyman Geek

06:10

Now I am confused

user206222

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I... it would take a little bit to explain what I meant,

user206222

@JourneymanGeek There was a Rather Bad Message which was flagged and removed. If you happened to be around, you could've taken care of it faster than flag cycle, but it's okay at this point.

Journeyman Geek

Oh

I was not.

rene

→ 39 messages moved to Chimney

user206222

Dw! Wasn't really a "drop everything and find the nearest RO/CM" case.

Journeyman Geek

06:12

Ah I see

.... what is DW?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/16422981/debramaria

user206222

dw = don't worry!

Journeyman Geek

ah

Sorry

I'm a bit distracted and frustrated ._.

user206222

no worries, I understand

Journeyman Geek

(work laptop needed reimaging and the damned thing will not reconnect to the domain)

user206222

06:14

I'm sorry to hear you inherited the laptop I dropped off at helpdesk on Monday.

Adam Lear

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I'm on vacation now but I'll try to remember for next week

Journeyman Geek

@Aza Oh I have had this for about a year

Also you sound too classy to work for this dump 😂

user206222

@JourneymanGeek Hahaha, how do you mean??

Journeyman Geek

@Aza I think one of the companies that my employer comprises of practically invented modern explotative outsourcing

Shadow

@JourneymanGeek first Google result is Dear Wife. ;)

JAD

06:22

sounds about right

Journeyman Geek

And they feature regularly in a certain online rag that is probably causing our CMs so much stress.

Shadow

@AdamLear I hope you didn't write that comment yesterday while in vacation?? Anyway, enjoy!

@JAD so everyone are dear wives now? o_O :P

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow you can check in (to a hotel) but you can never really leaaaaaveeeee.

(also, go take a proper break XD)

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

@JourneymanGeek you mean NPM?

"modern exploitative outsourcing" ;)

Journeyman Geek

@FélixGagnon-Grenier I was referring to csc

Shadow

06:24

status-too-many-acronyms

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

^

GetSet

What is MSE?

JAD

@Shadow oops, you're right. That's not very gender neutral

@Shadow I was having this discussion earlier in another chatroom, how do you do the red tags?

Shadow

@GetSet Meta Stack Exchange

Journeyman Geek

@GetSet If you need to ask, why are you here? ;p

@JAD only works on chat.mse

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

06:26

@GetSet do you have like, three hours for the introduction?

JAD

Or Maths Stack Exchange, depending who you ask

@JourneymanGeek d'oh

Shadow

hmm... guess with all the new people, we better use Meta.SE and not MSE. Opinions?

More to write, but less confusion.

GetSet

@Journeyman was looking for the chat channel. All seemed casual in here. Didnt want to just burst into the room

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

welcome?

Shadow

@GetSet Tavern has no door so it's harder to just burst into here. ;)

GetSet

06:28

@Shadow a proper standing at the doorway shows some respect

Shadow

@GetSet I respect that. :D

Now get a drink, will ya?

!!/coffee Get

SmokeDetector

@Shadow brews a cup of jQuery for @Get

Shadow

LOL

GetSet

In any event I have a possibly procedural question ... if any care to ponder?

Shadow

@GetSet try us

rene

06:29

Ponder away

Shadow

(we might catch)

GetSet

Ok. I will.

I decided to answer a bounty. Suppose the OP refuses the correct (and researched) answer? No bounty points?

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

[the sound of everyone rushing to their keyboards]

@GetSet bounties depend on the score of an answer that is posted after the bounty was added. as such, it does not matter whether or not the OP accepts an aswer. I think the rule is 2+ votes (?) to receive the bounty.

that is, the automatically awarded bounty, bounty issuer can also manually award the bounty, at some point during the process.

GetSet

@FélixGagnon-Grenier All i need to know

Shadow

@GetSet adding to @Felix, in case of automatic award, you get only half the bounty points.

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

06:33

that being said, I was hoping you'd ask a question that would actually stir the eternal fire of functional vs oop or procedural programming.

Cerbrus

Mornin'

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

o/

GetSet

@Shadow Didnt know that

Shadow

@GetSet you do now :)

GetSet

@FélixGagnon-Grenier Let me warm toes first

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

06:34

it's 2:30 am / I don't know where I am / I need to make some plans

Shadow

@FélixGagnon-Grenier shower / bed

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

yeah..

Shadow

(that's my plan)

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

a sound plan, I might add

Shadow

Oh, also better pee somewhere in between. Just a friendly advice. :P

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

06:35

:D

GetSet

@FélixGagnon-Grenier Its all procedural at the CPU level

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

I hear quantum mechanics's about to change all that

GetSet

How so?

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

I realize that's a way broader question than I am prepared to answer, but I would start with thinking about quantum computers.

s/prepared/able

Shadow

s/prepared/want

;)

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

06:38

:B

Shadow

B!

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

:)

GetSet

I didn't light the bong, but I will smoke it.

Shadow

I can't wait for quantum toilets. It would be awesome.

Mark

Smoking an unlit bong?

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

06:39

I'm canadian, we play fair, let me light this not metaphorical one, in solidarity

Shadow

@FélixGagnon-Grenier pic or it never happened. :P

Sklivvz

@Shog9 what accusation?

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

Damn the process of taking a picture on my phone, then sending it to me by mail, then uploading it here is so long it loses all momentum! :P

Sklivvz

If you need some complaints I've got a few :-S

Shadow

@FélixGagnon-Grenier switch to full site mode, you'll get a dandy "upload" button

GetSet

06:42

How do I exit here because you guys are clearly in your own element. Thats a compliment.

Shadow

@GetSet take the blue pill

GetSet

I was offered only one pill. Sucker me

@Shadow Quantum toilets? Sends the sitter to another dimension per flush?

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

@Shadow omg. omg all this time. ALL THIS TIME.

Journeyman Geek

@FélixGagnon-Grenier SO religion? Bold Play!

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

ikr? :)

Shadow

06:46

@GetSet no! You pee and don't pee in the same time. :D

GetSet

@Shadow so u just hurt

Shadow

@GetSet you didn't pay enough

@GetSet pee is fun, so in the very least, double the fun. :D

GetSet

@Shadow pee is fun if its not in a toilet

Shadow

@GetSet becomes cold too fast. :(

Cerbrus

Hm, looks like I missed some interesting action this night.

Shadow

06:48

Which reminds me, we need some tea!

!!/tea

SmokeDetector

@Shadow brews a cup of green tea for @Shadow

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

that was lucky

Shadow

@Cerbrus it's about quantum so you both missed and didn't miss. :)

GetSet

@Shadow the quantum thing is not all that mysterious, to me at least. It underlies the very perception of randomness

Cerbrus

Quantum?

Meh, another day, another drama :P

Shadow

06:51

@Cerbrus just a buzzword :P

Cerbrus

Someone might've forgotten that a name isn't all that's used to identify a account... A gravatar is quite recognizable.

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

@Cerbrus The wild claim was that while actual 2-bit computer systems were all, in a way, procedural, quantum computing would change that

dat Oxford comma

Cerbrus

Yea, now I understand xD

GetSet

Then how would we mere mortals program them?

Cerbrus

Use commas responsibly.

:D

JAD

06:53

:)

Cerbrus

It's early here

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

that makes much more sense ;)

GetSet

@Cerbrus I will have to use that horse line, in select circles

Cerbrus

It's too funny :P

GetSet

Horses get out of hand, you have to tame it down. Same token takes a select circle for that to land well without knowledge

JAD

06:56

honestly, isn't the biggest way of fixing that to capitalise Jack?

Cerbrus

Shhh, don't spoil it, @JAD

JAD

2 hours ago, by Rob

Oh, well there's the problem. Fun is banned here

but it's the rules

user58

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

Journeyman Geek

Language!

Thank you!

user58

@JAD Them's the rules.

Cerbrus

07:00

... what

user58

Oct 18 at 12:09, by user58

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yes. Crude jokes are to be avoided.

Best to err on the side of caution.

Cerbrus

Yea, you might want to collect room rules somewhere where everyone can see them in once place

GetSet

Why is it best to err on the side of caution?

Journeyman Geek

@Cerbrus Network Wide actually

though Language is more of a Root Access tradition

GetSet

That is like the most unsympathetic thing a person could do, err on the side of caution.

JAD

07:02

@user58 is the side of caution version of that rule "jokes are to be avoided altogether"?

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

Wait, I think there's a misunderstanding

Cerbrus

Well, we can't imply that someone might work on a stud farm...

user58

@JAD no

Journeyman Geek

@Cerbrus used to know someone who did

she was pretty fun

user58

Jokes are fine. Risqué ones less so.

Journeyman Geek

07:04

and yes. She did ... quite literally have to...

Apparently its a messy process but very profitable

Cerbrus

It's just part of the job.

Yea, the price it goes for is pretty insane

GetSet

Horses have needs. Jack off those needs, they're gone.

Journeyman Geek

Also good quality livestock genetic material is worth more than gold.

JAD

uuuh, do I want to google what a stud farm is?

Mark

@user58 Yes, offing horses is generally frowned-upon.

Cerbrus

07:05

@JAD Depends on your history with google

Journeyman Geek

@JAD basically a place where they have male horses for breding.

JAD

ah

Cerbrus

Sooo, now my joke turned into an actual discussion of the deed, and that's a-ok?

GetSet

By who? Offing horses is not frowned upon. We should do sex offenders this way

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

funny how that happens

Cerbrus

07:06

That's rather confusing.

Journeyman Geek

@Cerbrus It is respectful and scientific

Cerbrus

And slightly inconsistent.

Journeyman Geek

It isn't a joke

Tinkeringbell

Morning!

Cerbrus

So, if I were to add "On a stud farm", at the end, it's ok?

Tinkeringbell

07:07

No.

I haven't had coffee yet.

rene

→ 2 messages moved to Trashcan

Tinkeringbell

Duuuuude. If you haven't said sorry my mind wouldn't even have picked up on that. Now when you return, make sure to wash your mouth with soap first, and apply some brain bleach for good measure to.

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

^ that, is representative of most of the latest 10 minutes quid pro quo

Cerbrus

Yea, I've earned that

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

note to self, don't say f** anymore in the tavern*

Journeyman Geek

07:09

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

damn you markdown.

Mark

"f**"? Is that anything like "--ing"?

Cerbrus

What's wrong with f**? f*** I can understand, but "foo" is harmless.

Journeyman Geek

(SE kinda has pretty strict rules on profanity for years)

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

oh foo's a good replacement

Tinkeringbell

07:10

@FélixGagnon-Grenier I'm still planning on making these one day ;)

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

:heart_eyes:

Tinkeringbell

I can throw em at the screen when people go off the rails :)

Cerbrus

"Somebody foo'd up" kinda conveys the message

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

it's an insta adopt, really

JAD

Isn't foo's origin related to f***, through fubar?

Cerbrus

07:13

I believe so

Shadow

@Tinkeringbell and better not let the soap fall!

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

@JourneymanGeek I can envision a few chat rooms where the context is less drawn on directing that much human attention over it

Tinkeringbell

@Shadow Brain bleach... NOW!

Seriously, keep it serious for a few minutes!

Journeyman Geek

@FélixGagnon-Grenier Oh so...

On one of my chatrooms we had a "try not to swear but we don't care too much about it" rule

it worked well

until someone started flagging stuff... that was years old

maybe months. Anyway, stuff that was past

Cerbrus

The joker had some nice words to say about that... "Why so serious?"

Journeyman Geek

07:15

So we would have random people suspended with no warning cause sure, why not.

Cerbrus

Oh we've had similar happen in the JS chatroom

Journeyman Geek

So I'd rather have a "no foul" tradition of reminding people

than random undirected suspensions

MSE is probably a little safer but yanno

Cerbrus

Someone from twitter came in and decided we were all assholes and started flagging old stuff

Journeyman Geek

At the same time

I cannot change them

I can change the folks I'm around

Cerbrus

Out of context, those messages were dubious... But really there wasn't anything wrong with them

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

07:17

the constantly changing time focus over the actions of humans to decide what they are at the present moment is fooed up.

Journeyman Geek

Flagging on chat has no context

Cerbrus

It also sends the flag to all 10k+ users on that chat network

Journeyman Geek

tbh, that hasn't scaled that well

Cerbrus

I get so annoyed if people start spam flagging for room-specific rules

JAD

tbh, I haven't seen a chat flag in months

Cerbrus

07:19

2 days ago on SO's chat

several

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

yearly reminder that Terraria is a fine game.

Cerbrus

There's an update coming as well :D

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

:O

\o/

Cerbrus

Shit... I just started a new Factorio run and a Terraria update is coming somwhere this year

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

hahaha

Cerbrus

07:25

Ain't got no time for that!

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

I can't imagine the struggle that must be :p

david

have you tried the industrial revolution factorio mod?

Cerbrus

Nope, haven't really played any modded factorio

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

that's bold

Cerbrus

Haven't played since 1.15 or the likes, either... Nuclear was freshly introduced around the time I last played

So now there's ARTILLERY

Can't wait!

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

07:27

!

david

and collision free biters

Cerbrus

That's pretty recent though

david

that actually looked like a substantial difficulty bump

yeah, like last week?

Cerbrus

Also science is all different now

I basically had to re-learn the game :D

david

just remember, the optimal ratio for green circuits is a lie

don't buy into the 3:2 cult

they're blind to the truth

1:1 is the answer

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

07:32

dat time

Cerbrus

Enlighten me?

david

it's optimising the wrong thing

Cerbrus

Ahw shoot, I lost my close-vote privelege when my FAQ answer was deleted.

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

... I'm pretty sure "green circuit ratio" was once a thing I'd give maning to, and I haven't played for so long I don't even remember. Gods.

david

trying to minimise the number of assemblers gains you nothing

Cerbrus

07:34

@david That doesn't explain what'wrong with it...

david

it's just slower to build

and saves you about 1 coal every 20 minutes in idle time

Cerbrus

Okay, but how is 1:1 better?

david

and when you hit endgame, and you have 4 prod modules in everything you actually get close to 1.5 anyway

1:1 is easier to build

Cerbrus

@david With bots and blueprints it doesn't matter

david

you still need to design it

unless you've already sunk that cost

Cerbrus

07:37

In fact, when plopping down a massive factory, 2:3 is significantly faster

JAD

waaait, this conversation is not about meta anymore

david

and even then you gain so little from 3:2 that you might as well plop down 1:1 blueprints

Cerbrus

3 less items to plop down for every 3 circuit assemblers

JAD

without kidding though, is Factorio worth picking up?

Cerbrus

Absolutely

david

07:38

if you're into that sort of thing then it's amazing

but if you're not then it can just feel like a chore

Cerbrus

There's not a single game in my library where I've had that much value for money

david

hmm

terraria would come close

for me at least

Cerbrus

Hm, true that

david

ooh, Oxygen Not Included has overtaken factorio in played time for me

so that one counts too

JAD

In steam, Skyrim wins by a landslide, overall I don't think I'll ever beat the time I sunk into Runescape

mag

07:43

minecraft for me

easily 10k hours since it came out

and mojang got sweet 5$ from me

JAD

hmm, I think RS tracks playtime in days. I think that says enough

david

my wow playtime is probably pretty depressing... i was in a guild that did raids and stuff

Cerbrus

Please stop mentioning games I spent waaaaay too much time on xD

Aside from Oxygen Not Included, never played that...

JAD

@mag depressing is when you express that in days played, and it ends up being over a year ;(

Same for me with RS

mag

@JAD or not

people spend lots of time on their hobbies

JAD

07:49

OTOH, time enjoyed wasting is not wasted time

mag

what matters is if you got happiness and fulfillment out of it

JAD

true dat

Cerbrus

@mag that's why I stopped playing WoW... It ended up just grinding the same dailies, dungeons and raids...

JAD

@Cerbrus same. When I realised I only had time left to do my dailies, and just logged out afterwards, I stopped caring for the dailies

Foo dailies

Cerbrus

I also ended up doing classic raids myself

Got myself a Thunderfury :D

> Did somebody say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]?!

david

07:56

@Cerbrus Oxygen not included is worth picking up then next time you're looking for something

Cerbrus

Yea, I've been watching a youtube start a series on it

And seemingly abandon it :-/

mag

@Cerbrus the 20.000 world quest achievment may as well be called "emotionally dead inside"

Cerbrus

I don't know that one

Or is it literally "do 20k quests"?

SPArchaeologist-様

08:54

@mag can I interest in a fine deal? It is nothing to hard, don't worry.... You'll just have to Seek Mr Eaten's Name...

user58

10:16

→ 6 messages moved to Chimney

Raedwald

I see 2 recent meta posts that are essentially complaining about a moderator's handling of a rude/abusive. Opening a meta post for each of those disputes seems wrong, to me. Should I flag them for closure or deletion? Leave them alone?

Journeyman Geek

@Raedwald I'd leave them

Mods can decide how to handle them

If you can vote to close, just do as you feel appropriate

Raedwald

So, VTC is OK?

rene

the review queue on MSE is handled pretty good

with not only click robots

Raedwald

10:32

I can only flag-to-close, not VTC directly. None of the existing close reasons seem suitable, so I'll leave them for now.

terdon

Actually, using meta to ask for clarification of a moderator's actions, including flag handling, is completely normal and a valid use of meta.

Raedwald

Except, they aren't really asking for clarification. They are saying the moderator was wrong, and are implying the moderator was biased.

Journeyman Geek

@Raedwald By the time you reach that rep...

mag

@terdon flag!

Journeyman Geek

@Raedwald And that's literally a question

There is always the almighty downvote...

terdon

10:37

@mag Ugh. And I can't edit now :(

Well, I live in the UK and I smoke. So let's just go with referring to cigarettes.

Raedwald

In normal times, those kinds of posts would be OK. But in the current climate, they serve as outrage amplification. Especially when about deleted material, which most readers can not see, so there are no facts available to tether speculation.

terdon

@Raedwald Still. The post was civil, made a valid point, it was answered by a CM. Good? I'm sure the comments will need serious trimming, but it's one of the few normal, valid uses of meta we've seen in days.

Tinkeringbell

@terdon Fixed :)

terdon

@Tinkeringbell Thanks!

mag

parrot flyover fixed it

terdon

10:40

TIL: parrot droppings manifest as Ls in chat!

Tinkeringbell

Eeeewl....

terdon

@Tinkeringbell No, silly. Parrots, not owls.

And mag's the one who claimed it was a "flyover"!

Tinkeringbell

I prefer 'fly-by' then :P

terdon

After all, we all know how birds see the world!

Tinkeringbell

XD

user58

11:06

@terdon insert statement about Larson not wanting his comics on the internet here

terdon

@user58 He doesn't?

user58

That's what he's said, yes

> These cartoons are my “children,” of sorts, and like a parent, I’m concerned about where they go at night without telling me. And, seeing them at someone’s web site is like getting the call at 2:00 a.m. that goes, “Uh, Dad, you’re not going to like this much, but guess where I am.”

web.archive.org/web/20150208040757/http://www.creators.com/…

mag

meta is less palatable today then yesterday

and that was a pretty low bar to start

terdon

@user58 Well, crud :(

mag

sigh

Shadow

11:16

Who is this Larson?

terdon

@Shadow You're kidding, right?

Gary Larson? The author of The Far Side?

Gary Larson

Gary Larson (born August 14, 1950) is an American cartoonist. He is the creator of The Far Side, a single-panel cartoon series that was syndicated internationally to more than 1,900 newspapers for fifteen years. The series ended with Larson's retirement on January 1, 1995, though in September 2019 his website alluded to a "new online era of 'The Far Side.'" His twenty-three books of collected cartoons have combined sales of more than forty-five million copies. == Early life and education == Larson was born and raised in University Place, Washington, in suburban Tacoma, the son of Verner, a car...

Journeyman Geek

@terdon Its more of a US (uk?) thing ;p

Shadow

@terdon Nope. I might know him, but the name doesn't ring any instant bell.

terdon

@JourneymanGeek I doubt it. I learned about it in Greece, and it was well known in both Spain and France. At least among the scientific/geeky community.

@Shadow Oh wow, you're in for a treat! Blindly order any Far Side collection and prepare to have fun!

Shadow

@terdon well, not in Israel then. :/

terdon

11:19

@Shadow I bet that once you see them, you'll remember noticing them. They really are all over the place. But, if not, here's your chance to bring them to your country! :P

Shadow

lol

Cerbrus

@Shadow SE context: Brad Larson, obviously

terdon

Just do an image search for "gary larson" and/or "far side". That will bring up loads.

user58

...of course, to the consternation of the cartoonist.

terdon

@user58 Yes, yes, point taken.

Journeyman Geek

11:25

Those pesky kids :D

terdon

That's why I didn't post another and only suggested a search. What else should we do, email the hosting sites with cease and desist letters?

Shadow

@terdon yup

:D

Tinkeringbell

Hey Alex :)

Shadow

watching Alex passing by

Alex

Me?

Tinkeringbell

11:40

Hey yeah you... Hadn't seen you in a while :)

Alex

True. I don't seem to be in various chat rooms as often, or for as long stretches of time, as I used to be.

Tinkeringbell

Yeah... you okay in general?

Alex

Yeah. Just busier, I suppose.

Tinkeringbell

That's good to hear :) Busy with fun stuff?

Alex

Not necessarily inherently fun... but I make sure to have fun anyway.

Tinkeringbell

11:51

Nice! :)

Shadow

Well, only one Alex here. Unlike David, or John.

@user58 lost their name twin when changing name... ;)

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