Tavern on the Meta

Tinkeringbell

6:00 PM

@DeNovo Thanks! I think I found it on Imgur once, then included it in an answer on IPS. :P

(It's not mine!)

Kevin B

I do feel like discussing it, that's not the problem. it's that discussing it is actively being outlawed

2

Unihedron

Look, I get what you mean. I don't think you're wrong. But the big picture is that these sites are meant to have people come and get help and the process becomes a repository of content. If the person clearly doesn't want your help, you'd be doing yourself a disservice to continue aiding them in their quest for knowledge.

Tinkeringbell

@KevinB Meh (sorry, stealing your signature line here). 'Language likely to alienate/offend' was already in the CoC. The only thing that's changed is that now SE explicitly states that if I were to call you 'she' and you told me it's 'he', I should use he to not alienate or offend you!

Kevin B

I don't see what aiding in buidling a repository of content has to do with what i'm saying

Tinkeringbell

I agree that these changes and the disagreement over them being framed in terms of bigotry, transphobia, alt-right... doesn't make for a conducive learning environment... but the change really isn't that big, it's the fruzzles around it that make it bigger than it needs to be.

Kevin B

6:05 PM

And i agree with that. I'm not at all arguing the change was bad

djsmiley2k - CoW

I am amused that..... the issue stated there is supposedly what caused all this.

Because if that truely was the problem, giving the mods some better tools to deal with it (and maybe getting more mods eyes on the places it was occuring) may of been a far better idea all round.

Rob

Like chandelier cake.

Tinkeringbell

@KevinB I feel it's mostly aimed at chat interactions. Because that's where a lot of personhood happens.

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Tinkeringbell se hates chat tho.

terdon

@Cereal I what now? I didn't realize I was making that argument. I don't even understand it, to be honest.

Kevin B

6:05 PM

I don't see the change having any impact whatsoever on my usage of this site.

Cereal

@terdon I might have lumped you into tinkering bell

Kevin B

i don't have to change the way i interact at all

djsmiley2k - CoW

but instead, it's highlighted how..... aloof SE acts.

Cereal

Sorry

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW To be honest? It was the mods that needed this change the most perhaps. Because otherwise we'd still be arguing 10 years later over what we could get away with and whether it'd be alienating...

terdon

6:06 PM

@Cereal That will be uncomfortable for both of us. She's a small parrot!

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Tinkeringbell then they should of listened to the users :/

Tinkeringbell

@terdon Hey, 10 euro's I'm tougher than you.

djsmiley2k - CoW

if users X is insulted by user Y. 3 of you review it.

Cereal

Who would win, a fretboard or a parrot

@djsmiley2k-CoW A third party deciding if the offended is actually offended :D

That would go over well

Kevin B

but to push the discussion of one side and present it as good, inclusive, etc, and then outlaw any dissenting view of it (most of which i disagree with, but that's not the point,) is simply unacceptable. If you're not going to allow one part of the discussion throw out all of it.

terdon

6:07 PM

@Tinkeringbell I don't doubt that for a second! But I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy having me lumped into you! :)

djsmiley2k - CoW

@Cereal lol no

it'd be when user x has flagged it.

we've exactly what you just described, now.

Tinkeringbell

@djsmiley2k-CoW They did. Users say it's not making them happy to be called 'he' when they're a 'she', or to be called he/she when they're neither.

djsmiley2k - CoW

So they state that and what?

someone ignores it?

BOOT THEM INTO THE SUN.

terdon

@KevinB Indeed. Which is why I think what Gwideon posted above about trying to understand where the other side is coming from instead of branding them as something or other is so important.

Unihedron

@Tinkeringbell October surprise. Sorry for the necro-reply, took some time looking up the video.

Tinkeringbell

6:09 PM

@terdon Erf, missed that. Okay yeah, I vote against that...

Rubiksmoose

@Tinkeringbell Would we ever...

terdon

@Tinkeringbell :)

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose It'd be like that Tweet about Brexit and asking for an extension of the deadline becoming a tradition, but in 150 years no one knowing it's origins anymore. The discussion will come up over and over, but in the end only a select few people might remember what the original problem was, and the rest left wondering why we're making such a big deal XD

@Unihedron Nice one!

I wouldn't call this a PR stunt though...

Unihedron

Oh, just my odd sense of humor. I share your sentiment in that it's not necessarily a big deal. I don't sincerely think it's a political thing, just trying to make light of the situation. Though I did just write a 7+3 paragraph answer asking for clarification on a minute detail. I should probably stop, lol.

Tinkeringbell

Try to add a TL;DR :P

Rubiksmoose

6:18 PM

@Tinkeringbell And myth passes into legend...

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose Really? I thought those were two distinct categories :|

Legends for humans, myths for Gods/demi-Gods? No?

> Myth is a folklore genre consisting of narratives or stories that play a fundamental role in a society, such as foundational tales or origin myths. The main characters in myths are usually gods, demigods or supernatural humans.[1][2][3] Stories of everyday human beings, although often of leaders of some type, are usually contained in legends, as opposed to myths.

Unihedron

The first line is the TL;DR. The other 6 paragraphs are me elaborating on what doesn't need to be elaborated on. The other 3 paragraphs are respectively me adding addendums that each updates the post to make it a proper essay format with (respectively) awful citations, being overly defensive about my opinions not being a commentary on others having bad opinions, and me editing my answer with "he". I find it hilarious that I'd make it so long. Even more so that I'm describing it now.

Rubiksmoose

@Tinkeringbell I was probably butchering a part of a quote from the beginning of LotR Fellowship (the movie)

But I do enjoy how that throwaway comment lead to a learning opportunity :)

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose Ooooh.... I'm sorry. I don't know that movie by heart XD

(nor the books. I only read them and watched the movies after I moved out for university...something with parents).

user58

Isn't it from Wheel of Time?

> “The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”

...and huh, there is something similar from LotR. I didn't remember that quote.

> “And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the ring passed out of all knowledge.”

Unihedron

6:32 PM

When your friend lets you copy their homework but they want you to change a bit so it's not as obvious.

Got your back bruh.

M.A.R.

@Tinkeringbell Sacrilege!

Cereal

Is the wheel of time the one with aeden and the burning of his village

Tinkeringbell

@M.A.R. I'm working on fixing it!

user58

@Cereal Dunno, I couldn't get past the first one.

terdon

@user58 If I didn't know better, I would even suspect that WoT was a ~~shoddy~~ ~~inferior~~ derivative work!

:P

user58

6:34 PM

Banish the thought!

terdon

@Cereal There was a burning, but I don't remember Aeden.

M.A.R.

@terdon Oooooooh!

terdon

Although it'd probably be A'ed'en or some such.

@M.A.R. Fight me! :P

M.A.R.

Do not come up with fictional names while gulping water. You'd think it goes without saying

Cereal

I get my fantasy characters mixed up a lot

Rubiksmoose

6:38 PM

@Tinkeringbell I mean it was a pretty oblique reference even if it wasn't mangled.

Apparently the actual version is:

> And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the ring passed out of all knowledge.

Tinkeringbell

Poor ring...

Rubiksmoose

The ring was the true tragic hero.

user58

....methinks you're mixing up Sam and the ring.

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose Entirely misunderstood, that poor fella.

Rand al'Thor

Yes, I magically appear when fantasy novels are being discussed.

M.A.R.

6:40 PM

And answer with a "yes" to a question not asked.

That is so wizard of you.

Rubiksmoose

@user58 Hey, Sam got a name at least. Did anybody even ask the ring its name? Nah they just said mean things about it for like 12 hours and then chucked it into a volcano.

Tinkeringbell

@Randal'Thor I mean, I admit I was just trying to ignore that...

M.A.R.

@Rubiksmoose Right?

And all it did was giving them hallucinations

Rand al'Thor

@terdon Of course it's derivative. As is most high/epic fantasy since Tolkien. Jordan at least was up-front about it, and admitted the first book started off very LotRish and then rapidly diverged.

M.A.R.

Now if it was the 21st century

Walter White would have been making rings.

Is "derivative" a nice mean way of saying "fanfiction"? Runs away in a Jaguar

canon

6:42 PM

*on a jaguar :P

M.A.R.

The insides are a bit wet here

@canon Oh you joke pooper

Rand al'Thor

@M.A.R. Insides of the jaguar?

terdon

@Randal'Thor ha! I knew I would summon you if I said that!

Rand al'Thor

@M.A.R. Not in this case, for sure.

@terdon I haven't even been in meta chat since May.

M.A.R.

@Randal'Thor No the universe. OF COURSE the jaguar teen trendy eye roll

Rand al'Thor

6:44 PM

(Not Theresa, the month.)

M.A.R.

Oh I suck at eye rolling when I wanna imitate others

terdon

And yet, one disparaging comment about WooT WooT and here you are!

M.A.R.

58 does it better

user58

Do I hear M.A.R. admitting I do something better than him? Quick, mark it down and save it for all eternity!

M.A.R.

I'm not sure it's a compliment

Rand al'Thor

6:46 PM

@M.A.R. 58 is good at imitating a teen? Who'd've thunk :-P

M.A.R.

I'm a 50-yo 20-yo, you see.

Get off my Instagram

Rand al'Thor

@M.A.R. rofl

M.A.R.

@Randal'Thor No trust me, they've been terrible

Rand al'Thor

@M.A.R. Reminds me of a recent comedy video.

M.A.R.

BBL dinner

You westerners and your unblocked YouTube comedy videos.

Rand al'Thor

6:51 PM

@M.A.R. Nooshe joon.

Gesundheit

Try swallowing.

hello

\o

Hey :)

6:54 PM

how is everyone

Mgetz

@Gwideon Stayin' alive

Gwideon

that's good

user58

It's not quite ten o'clock and I'm deliberating between sleeping or trying to get together a word game on the internet.

Mgetz

@user58 2200 or 1000?

this is why I use 24hr time

user58

PM.

Tinkeringbell

6:55 PM

@Gwideon Getting sleepy.

Gwideon

oof. I suggest taking a nap or going to sleep

Mgetz

I'm also severely burnt out

so yeah

Rand al'Thor

@user58 PM?

Gwideon

yeah I get being burnt out. I don't really have many spoons left.

user58

@Randal'Thor I don't think we have one here at the moment.

Mgetz

6:58 PM

I don't get the whole 'spoons' thing

Tinkeringbell

@Mgetz Rummages in the cutlery drawer for a link.... butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/…

user58

Spoon theory

The spoon theory or spoon metaphor is a disability metaphor (for a combination of ego depletion, fatigue, and other factors), a neologism used to explain the reduced amount of mental and physical energy available for activities of living and productive tasks that may result from disability or chronic illness. Spoons are a visual representation used as a unit of measure in order to quantify how much energy a person has throughout a given day. Each activity requires a given number of spoons, which will only be replaced as the person "recharges" through rest. A person who runs out of spoons has no...

Tinkeringbell

Ever seen that one?

Gwideon

i didn't know it was an actual theory

user58

(Remembering the names of Wikipedia articles is great, then you can type in "wiki: <name>" and it'll onebox. ;))

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

7:00 PM

Wikipedia:Project namespace

The project namespace or Wikipedia namespace is a namespace consisting of administration pages with information or discussion about Wikipedia. Pages in this namespace will always have the prefix Wikipedia:. They can also be reached by alias WP: or the standard (for any MediaWiki site) prefix Project:. Its namespace number is four (4). == Terminology == Project pages or Wikipedia pages are pages in the Wikipedia and Wikipedia talk namespaces. WikiProject pages, which are included in the Wikipedia namespace, are usually referred to as WikiProject pages to distinguish them from project pages as a...

Works with pages in other namespaces too

Also, with regard to spoon theory, see this blog post from my friend.

Mgetz

@Tinkeringbell nope but it makes sense, a good portion of my energy does go to wearing the mask of normalcy

Tinkeringbell

@Mgetz Ah, yeah... it can be hard :(

I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope you have some place where you feel comfortable just being you :) Maybe one day, SE can be that again too :)

Mgetz

@Tinkeringbell Sadly there is no place

Tinkeringbell

:(

Gwideon

hugs @Mgetz

hey @Rubiksmoose it's nice to see you

Rubiksmoose

7:11 PM

@Gwideon Hey there. Same to you. :)

Stevoisiak

Looks like reddit is down

Or at the very least, login isnt working

Gwideon

interesting

Mgetz

7:30 PM

@Gwideon thanks

Gwideon

your welcome and um if you ever need someone to talk to then feel free to ping me

Mgetz

7:46 PM

@user58 for what it's worth I've heard of something similar

user310756

8:01 PM

@Tinkeringbell yep, spot on. I've gotten to a point where I give up. I cannot communicate anything I'd like to say in any way effectively or in any way that will be well received.

Gwideon

that's certainly interesting

user310756

@Gwideon I feel like that. I am fearful discussing it in here will get me kicked, that my messages will be trashed and if I post it will be downvoted. I've gotten to a point I realise there's no future for me on the site. Even if I was to focus on SO, it's been made clear there's people who will object to me being a mod again and they will make it their mission to prevent that. There is no more peace for me here

user310756

I've left discord.

user310756

I want to put the energy where it's appreciated

Gwideon

i'd still listen to you

user310756

8:05 PM

People have effectively pushed people off the site. I just went down with a huge fight. People didn't like what I was saying - in the end how I was saying it - but it really didn't matter by the end of it how I worded things

user310756

@Gwideon I can't take the abuse

user310756

there's comments still sitting there and multiple posts that are actually dedicated to me, but crafty. Personally. I find it disgusting

user310756

I mapped it out carefully and showed the network.

Gwideon

that's sad

user310756

To be told regualrly to "take a break"

user310756

8:07 PM

insulted many times a day

user310756

laughed at

Gwideon

hugs @Nobody sorry. i'm so sorry

user310756

and then to be kicked from this room on top of it

Gwideon

wait you were kicked

Kevin B

🐴

user310756

8:07 PM

@Gwideon all those years on MSO trying to make it better and succeeding at one point

user310756

now I'm a leper on the site

user310756

all started with the Nancy post, that was brought over here from MSO to garner support and hatred pretty much

Gwideon

I'm sorry

user310756

it reminds me of the early days of meta - before the split and I can't go back to that

user310756

I had so much good will on mso before I took a break - now - the opposite

user310756

8:09 PM

because I dared to have a different opinion. The latest posts are irrelevant - the rot had set in well and truly by then

user310756

I didn't put much effort into them, as I knew they would be howled down

user310756

funnily - it's the same thing everyone keeps accusing the network of

user310756

I post an opinion and they're dowvoted and have no lie - the posts that are not deleted >100 comments

user310756

oh but people are entitled to comment their disagreement. Never mind the insults

user310756

so Monica's reputation has been ruined. She's not the only one

Gwideon

8:11 PM

i don't know what to say. I wish I could make all of the pain this whole drama has caused just go away.

user310756

and I've been driven off the site

user310756

because I dare to suggest there's more to the whole picture than people are saying

user310756

@FélixGagnon-Grenier I used the site as a resume. so do not make assumptions. You do not know what I do for a living

David A

Opinions are fine. I'd just try not to be too opinionated. It tends to escalate things unnecessarily.

rene

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

user310756

8:12 PM

she has support on the site and will be vindicated

Gwideon

can we not argue here. please

please

M.A.R.

Seconding Gwideon

If I knew how to pronounce their name, that is

Kevin B

Lol

Stevoisiak

I think we can agree this situation has been crap for a lot of people here

M.A.R.

No u lol

user310756

8:13 PM

@Gwideon the thing is - there's been a lot of chat and insinuations in here about me. Then when I step in and say something - I'm blocked. And there's been a handful of users doing it over and over and nothing has been done to stop it. I'm not actually attacking anyone when I say this. I'm saying I don't like being put down publicly daily

M.A.R.

And put a stop to it

@Nobody Please stop

4

Gwideon

Ga-WI-DE-ON is how to do the pronunciation i guess

user310756

G-Wid-eon

user310756

@M.A.R. what have I dont wrong now?

user310756

I'm tellling it as it's been my experience and it's pushed me off the site and I cannot speak about it?

M.A.R.

8:15 PM

We can talk about kittens instead.

David A

I would have guessed like "Gideon" but with a W in there.

M.A.R.

@Gwideon WI as in WHY or WEE

user168476

@Nobody I think people understand your point of view at this point, I feel like continuing this just makes things messy and it's not really helping, because it seems like every time it comes up this devolves into argument.

M.A.R.

DE as in Germany or the alphabet letter

BelovedFool

eyesballs-pls | unfriendly? | meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336556/…

user168476

8:15 PM

@DavidA that's how I was saying it in my head.

user310756

talk about kittens. but when people are hating on people not in the room (and sometimes in the room) with insinutations and nothing is done - it's endorsing meanness

M.A.R.

@Ash sounds like I spoke up

divibisan

@BelovedFool I had it flagged that way

user310756

@Ash most people ignore it or object to it tbh. There's a few people who have been supportive.

M.A.R.

Pronouncing @Gwi's username has apparently caused international conflict and I just resolved it

Where's my Nobel Piece Prize

Like, just 1/100th of one would do.

user310756

8:17 PM

so there's been no indication that anyone sees anything and there's a subtle premise that I deserve it

user310756

anyway I'll go before I'm kicked again

David A

This is why I'm glad I can keep my empathy in check. Empathy (when taken to an extreme) puts all the world's burdens on your shoulders.

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

@BelovedFool They don't seem antagonistic at all. mainly explaining why the referenc could be misunderstood.

M.A.R.

@DavidA I empathize. A little too much

BelovedFool

@FélixGagnon-Grenier "I will rightfully suspect the person who compelled you to do it, wanted to sneak their unrelated message into your appeal" sounds like they are assuming very bad intent from the other user

Gwideon

8:20 PM

@M.A.R. like in why

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

I'll agree it is assuming something from someone, but "very bad intent" is a stretch.

Kevin B

If anything the messages are "no longer needed"

unfriendly? i mean...

BelovedFool

@KevinB ^ That

M.A.R.

I just realized how meta "assuming intent" is

Kevin B

why reach for the one that is questionable

when another flag easily fits it and isn't controversial

Gwideon

8:21 PM

@M.A.R. I don't know what DE sounds like in german

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

@rene Just so I can understand. Did you kick because I responded? Is it the content? Am I simply supposed to see things being misrepresented and... swallow it up?

M.A.R.

@Gwideon That's a bit complicated

rene

@FélixGagnon-Grenier yes.

Gwideon

think the eevelution names from pokemon

djsmiley2k - CoW

ahahaha new avatar attacks

Stevoisiak

8:22 PM

I don't think I have enough emergency puppies for this.

Gwideon

like umbreon

djsmiley2k - CoW

tis terrifying

M.A.R.

@FélixGagnon-Grenier There is no good to come out of the discussion you wanted to have. Shrug The winning move is not to play.

Or cheat. I cheat.

BelovedFool

@KevinB I thought it would be removed more quickly and I didn't want the other person to be hurt by those words?

Gwideon

Avatar attacks?

M.A.R.

8:24 PM

@BelovedFool three of either has it removed

Kevin B

i would suspect it'd be easier for a mod to agree with nln than unfriendly

M.A.R.

@Gwideon I'm assuming it's a movie

Or the Avengers' next villain

Kevin B

as one doesn't require determining the "friendlyness" of the comment

BelovedFool

@KevinB I'm suspecting mods to don't even take a look at "NLN" these days. So, if it's borderline, I don't know...

M.A.R.

Get this. Marvel should do a villain movie too. The two studios should be trying to copy each other perfectly.

Gwideon

8:25 PM

Nah

M.A.R.

Let's have a Benicio Del Toro movie.

He was supposed to be collecting infinity stones but I'm pretty sure there's drugs involved somewhere too

He'd be selling them to Robert De Niro

Rubiksmoose

8:46 PM

Not sure how to deal with this answer. They are claiming that they must be allowed to add a signature to their answer.

divibisan

@Rubiksmoose They're the one who's been mass-editing their answers to add that signature?

M.A.R.

@Rubiksmoose Eh, nothing new? Mod-flag that an edit war might happen, they can lock or let it go as they wish

rene

@Rubiksmoose let it be. There are other means to get that sorted. Not worth the fight.

divibisan

@Rubiksmoose I think they already changed their name recently. Isn't there a 30-day limit on multiple changes?

Cereal

Let it go, let it go...

3

Can't hold it back anymore...

Rubiksmoose

8:51 PM

@divibisan If so, I had no idea about it.

Flagged and forgotten.

@divibisan Yeah there is indeed.

djsmiley2k - CoW

hmmm can i have transparent backgrounds on a avatar?

rene

@djsmiley2k-CoW I think so. But none of the containers your profile image is in has a transparent background so I'm not sure what you hope to gain, except satisfied curiousity.

djsmiley2k - CoW

png?

rene

imgur does allow png, so yes.

Kevin B

i mean, a transparent background would get rid of the white corners on my dark backgrounds

not everyone's using the default styling

djsmiley2k - CoW

9:00 PM

exactly, I have dark mode.

hmmm can't rememberh ow to set the alpha channel in gimp :/

David A

I'm sure some fool will use an animated SVG as an avatar somewhere.

djsmiley2k - CoW

ah yes there we go

in the 'transparency' menu :D

rene

@DavidA animation does get removed on upload and svg is not supported

djsmiley2k - CoW

That's better.

David A

lol meta.stackexchange.com/questions/175802/…

rene

9:05 PM

good it has red circles

djsmiley2k - CoW

the fact it was posted in chat by fredley, xD

all bow down to the porkchop.

Shadow

9:27 PM

@Tinkeringbell hey that's brown! calling Josh Darnell

Monica Cellio

@Shog9 not talking is profoundly not working. How much worse could it be to actually talk?

2

Kevin B

☕️

Cereal

@MonicaCellio If ea games is any indication - much worse. reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/…

I like to compare them to hello games, who also got a ton of negative feedback, and summarily did not make any response

Kevin B

i mean, NMS is now in a pretty good place

so...

it worked?

Cereal

It did indeed

I think about not acknowleding the problem, is it tends to go away on the internet

Cerbrus

9:41 PM

Yikes, not enough kittens here.

There, that's better

Kevin B

how

Cerbrus

Don't look too closely at the image

Cereal

Oof, I cut myself on how sharp that image is

David A

The user got deleted as well I think.

Undo

Guessing the user got nuked for whatever reason and the post was collateral damage

user206222

9:52 PM

It's... worth being extremely careful about undeleting that post.

user206222

I would not be so quick to bring it back.

Undo

Because?

user206222

It was attracting neo-Nazi phraseology.

user206222

And non-condemning discussions about it.

ArtOfCode

@Undo deleted by Community, user is deleted - collateral is right

Undo

9:53 PM

Unless we're saying that the premise of the post - that Sara was on this podcast, and did say these things - this is a very big part of the story. I'm not willing to remove it from the site.

2

David A

I've seen posts locked due to attracting low-quality responses, but deletion of upvoted stuff is usually rare unless flagged.

Undo

I am willing to say nazism is bad. I am not willing to say that anything a Nazi touches is bad by association and must be removed.

5

let's just put the site in readonly mode, at that point

user206222

If you know what you're looking for and have the authority to moderate that discussion to explicitly condemn those kinds of comments, sure.

user384163

Why does everyone want the fires to keep burning?

David A

@AGirlHasNoName Presumably lack of satisfaction with the status quo.

user206222

9:56 PM

But, seriously, at what cost? How overt does neo-Nazi phraseology need to be, before we say, "we need to be more careful about how we talk about this"?

user384163

@Undo You didn't find more context you found more napalm

user206222

You want to bring that discussion back, that's fine. Is that really the right place?

Undo

Is meta the right place to talk about issues affecting the network?

user384163

@DavidA hilarious

user206222

You can pass any harmful ideology off as an "issue affecting the network." How you talk about those issues is a massive deal.

Cereal

9:57 PM

I mentioned earlier about how people forget things on the internet. Usually because people stop putting wood on the fire.

That said I can't read deleted posts, so I'm just talking out of my ass

user206222

There is an issue affecting the network in that post. It's also drawing neo-Nazi language. Both of those things are true.

user206222

We should be able to do one without the other. If we can't, stop and consider how to do it better.

ArtOfCode

@Aza given that I couldn't see anything remotely neo-Nazi-like on a complete readthrough... more overt than that.

David A

I had the post open when it got deleted (minus the low-score comments).

Kevin B

i did read that post, and i don't understand what problem you have with it other than the fact that it alludes to employees being on that podcast as being problematic... which I happen to agree with.

:shrug:

Undo

9:58 PM

So if there was neo-Nazi language posted on, say, meta.stackexchange.com/q/233655/215468, we're going to delete the question rather than just kick the Nazi out?

Kevin B

It seems to me you simply want to squelch any discussion that isn't in favor of your ideology.

2

user384163

yeah how dare a woman in tech who advocates for women in tech be on a feminist podcast

Undo

Sorry, but no. This is moderation 101 - use as light a touch as possible to remove the problem, with as little collateral damage as possible.

user384163

@Undo That's a strawman

Undo

~~Indeed~~ How so?

Cereal

10:00 PM

Well they did kick the user out

They just took the post with him

Undo

I'm hearing "we aren't allowed to talk about $subject because some Nazis said some stuff in the thread"

Kevin B

which.. is standard practice for users under a certain amount of rep

user206222

That's explicitly not what I said.

user384163

@Undo Comparing an innocuous post to an inflammatory one for starters.

Undo

Inflammatory only because it appears to be true

Kevin B

10:02 PM

It tried to draw conclusions, is the main issue it had

Undo

It's literally not much more than a paragraph of context and a verbatim transcript of what our Director of Q&A said

Kevin B

but that can be fixed

ArtOfCode

waffles

Undo

thx

Cerbrus

@ArtOfCode Kittens

Kittens and puppies are the new waffles

ArtOfCode

10:04 PM

@Cerbrus puppers

Cerbrus

... Not to say you should eat them

ArtOfCode

Mark

@Cerbrus But people object when you eat kittens

ArtOfCode

@Mark Ninja'd

Cerbrus

@Mark Beat you to it

David A

10:04 PM

I hate to say this, but one of the unspoken rules is to never call out staff.

Kevin B

"unspoken"

Cereal

I didn't find that post inflammatory. It was up for awhile

Kevin B

i mean, the retweet post is still up, 13 days later,

Cereal

That's fantastic post. I hope it doesn't get deleted

David A

It was upvoted and had some fairly reasonable comments and answers.

Kevin B

10:07 PM

don't see how this one is any different

It's all part of an overall story

divibisan

@Undo Assuming it's the podcast post I'm thinking of, I don't see the post itself as inflammatory (at least, not any more than many of the posts recently), but the OP was definitely trying to stir up more of a "political discussion". But if their account is deleted, then maybe it's ok to bring it back?

David A

@KevinB One of the other unspoken rules of a bureaucracy is that you never embarrass the people with power.

3

Kevin B

Lol

Cereal

@DavidA They're doing that just fine on their own

ArtOfCode

oof

David A

10:09 PM

That's preferable. It lets you keep your hands (and conscience) clean.

Cereal

I really wonder what the environment is at the office right now. I can't imagine the developers are on the same level as the hr people

Kevin B

I mean, they have a very.. diverse recruitment process

David A

Ugh HR. My last comment about HR as a concept was "Never forget that HR's primary function is risk management for senior leadership. And you're the risk they manage."

ArtOfCode

If you believe Twitter... the community folks are all tearing their hair out because this has dragged on and nobody's doing anything about it, the developers and SREs are mostly business-as-usual, and most of the rest of the company hasn't even heard anything's wrong

David A

At the top of a company, they generally only care about quantitative metrics and the personal ambitions of the C-suite. If there's no metrics saying there's a problem, then there's no problem.

@Undo I'd link you George's comment that started this, but even that would probably be problematic.

duplode

10:20 PM

@divibisan Account destruction aside, I don't feel there was a need to delete that post, but I'm afraid that is the best thing I can say about it.

David A

It was definitely more heat than light.

duplode

It was a scorchingly terrible take. Not even its chronology made sense.

divibisan

@duplode Yeah, I didn't see anything bad on it per se while I was looking, but it would not surprise me at all if it did go that way

David A

Basically what happened was one user named "Won't" started ranting about "cultural marxism" in a comment and derailed things a bit. There are 18 comments I can't see, so there might be worse.

duplode

@DavidA I'd say that was an easy to predict effect of posting such a thing. Pretty good bait.

David A

10:27 PM

That user is very much still around and has a >100K rep.

Not my fight. I just read stuff.

duplode

I meant the deleted post was good bait for attracting rants.

David A

Yep. There's a close reason for that.

duplode

The >100k user you mention indeed is an SO veteran, who used to be a mod in the early days.