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Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire (Official Video)

Oct 10 at 12:09, by Mgetz

►

user310756

also it's not that one comment in isolation - it's the number of comments from the same people turning up with regular monotony

@Mgetz ._.

HOW DO YOU EVEN....

rene

@Mgetz I like the door chimes better ....

2:01 PM

@JourneymanGeek what did I do this time 😵

@Mgetz TIME TRAVELLER!

CAUSALITY VOIDER!

hides in confusion

I put the blame on SE-the-company for everything to do with Monica. People's disagreement with that makes them more likely to respond...harsher to things like the first CoC faq.

CHRONAL DELINQUENT!

@Gloweye eh. yes and no.

@JourneymanGeek Let's start with ruling out 'precognition' first :P

2:02 PM

I see Xenogears in that fire playlist. A person of class I see. 👍

@Tinkeringbell true

user310756

The problem with pile on - is it causes the OP to start to ignore any real feedback. As it becomes overwhelming. It feels hateful and so a lot of decent feedback is lost

At the very least, it made sure more people were on meta.SE.com in general.

user310756

We need to introduce limitations on comments

Yes, and because of the pile-on effect, we need to remain calm while making our case.

2:03 PM

Unfortunately gonna have to dock points for missing Through the Fire and the Flames

@Nobody so... out here...

we once had the shopping district flooded.

user194636

Oct 9 at 12:32, by Paul White

Comments were a mistake.

It was a 200 year storm

I dont think comments limitations would be constructive, though. You'd just get much more answers saying the same things.

Do we... raise the shopping district 2 feet or...

user310756

2:03 PM

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309061/… and meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309321/…

Too many commenting when they should vote instead.

@194636 We should just start boycotting comments. See how it fares.

user310756

@JourneymanGeek oh this is something I've been advocating a loooong time.

"We feel the pain of a lifetime lost in a thousand days
Through the fire and the flames we carry on"

user194636

@Gloweye There were 1,000 mistakes made at various stages by 100 people. Changing any of those events would likely have prevented the current situation. SE have a lot of responsibility, but it is not total.

user310756

2:04 PM

@Gloweye if you can't make your point in two comments, then you've probably started arguing

user194636

@Tinkeringbell But there are people with incorrect opinions out there!

I er... can't help but chuckle

mornings, also

Perhaps, but I don't think disagreements are neccesarily a bad thing, as long as people can remain polite.

@Nobody It takes two to start an argument.

user194636

@Cerbrus No it doesn't. Oh.

user310756

2:05 PM

The other thing is posting similar comments after they've been deleted, but I don't dare post a question about that - it will be downvoted to hell. 18 months ago it would have been well received

@194636 Yes it does.

user310756

@Cerbrus yes! and your illustration is perfect! Thank you

@Nobody Wut

I'm quite bad with words myself in a lot of cases, so I often need to clarify in the comments.

user310756

clarification is fine

How Stack Overflow for Teams Brought This Company’s Leadership and Engineering Closer Together.

2:06 PM

It often looks like arguing to other people, though.

user310756

it's the endless comments of disagreement or worse insults that are bad

Feeds

Medi Gwosdz on October 24, 2019

After learning how Git whiz Sascha Wolf built his career via Stack Overflow, we sat down with him and his former colleague to talk about how Stack Overflow for Teams was introduced at Grandcentrix. The thing developer Sascha Wolf appreciated most when joining Grandcentrix was the passion of his colleagues to do good work. He fondly remembers many conversations with Stephan Hochhaus, Grandcentrix Vice President, HR and Organizational Development. Wolf says they were both “very interested in communication, how to communicate better, and how we can share knowledge better.” Hochhaus sums …

Insults: flag'm

simple

user194636

Another blog post?

That's uh, an interesting blog post topic

2:07 PM

@Nobody Do you sometimes think thay maybe, some things are worth disagreeing with, and that possibly it's the original thing that is endlessly commented on that is wrong?

insults should be deleted. Discussion should not be about people. Even with what happens with Monica, we should discuss what happened, or what was posted. Not make value comments about the people involved.

user310756

@FélixGagnon-Grenier how many people does it take to say the same thing?

As much people that feel concerned about it

user310756

No, it's not constructive.

Why do you even try to police that?

user310756

2:08 PM

It's a form of inadvertent bullying

It's probably a human thing about wanting to be heard, and just an up-or downvote can't always properly express that.

user194636

@Gloweye Normally that can work pretty well. It doesn't really scale in times of crisis though.

user310756

there's the downvote button

Perhaps it would be less if comments had downvotes.

Amongst the different things that are not constructive, being many people to say the same things is not the worse of them

user310756

2:08 PM

Then people are facing 100s of comments

@194636 Makes comment deletions even easier if they only ever contain incorrect opinions! :P

user310756

starred comments emphasizing how "bad" the person is

I try to remember that there's a human on every side of a discussion. A human with feelings I don't want to hurt

I don't say anything if I wouldn't want to be on the other side of that comment

Insults are easy. They get a R/A flag and eventually a moderator will notice that the user is a bad actor. It's the people whole continually tack close to the line between acceptable and unacceptable. The not-nice term for their behaviour is skilful trolling. They succeed in pressing buttons, but don't get sanctioned.

2

user194636

@Tinkeringbell 😀

2:09 PM

Yeah, that should not happen. Perhaps I just didn't read closely enough, but it's very rare I've seen comments attacking a person like that.

@Stevoisiak And I totally remember I can and have done that in the past ._.

user310756

in this climate it's a form of harassment and it's pushing people with different opinions off the site. Unless they're a honey badger

user194636

well different opinions are fine but ranting is never a good look

Badger is cute.

that why you generally say that all criticism of your posts is simply people downvoting you?

user310756

2:11 PM

@Raedwald 100% and then they cry - "but I'm just voicing my disagreement. You cannot cope with anyone disagreeing with you"

"-1 this sucks", "-1 this is terrible", and "Eww it's horrible" are indeed just noise.

user194636

@Raedwald You underestimate the moderators. Annotations exist. Pattern and name recognition exists. Subtle bad behaviour might take longer to produce an action, but it often does happen.

user310756

@FélixGagnon-Grenier I didn't say that. I'm saying there's already downvotes - why do you feel the need to then say I disagree? A dv registers that disagreement. I don't need 100 comments and that's not an exaggeration in places

user310756

How do you think saying "if I had a gun you'd be scared I'd shoot everyone with it"

If nobody comments you'd be left wondering why all those people downvote your answers.

user310756

2:12 PM

is helpful

I respect a well thought out post I disagree much more with than an inflamed post on the side I agree with

user310756

I never said no one should comment

user194636

@Stevoisiak Same

@Nobody Because if you think about it, maybe you'd realize that your own behaviour would be better served by you examining it more closely

You seem to say only one person should express their disagreement

2:13 PM

@194636 I mean the posters who are careful enough not to get flagged as R/A. Moderators can't go looking for things that haven't been flagged.

user310756

I'm saying the same thing doesn't need to be said by 10 different people - like the rules of scovr. I've been saying it for years literally

@Nobody @FélixGagnon-Grenier Please stop

@Nobody That's very true. But none of us are innocent. For instance, I have posted 35 comments in the past 2 days and you have posted 55. It's hard to keep silent sometimes, we're all guilty of this.

ok

user310756

If I address people with even half of that - I'm jumped on

user194636

2:14 PM

@Raedwald I do, all the time. I use the site like anyone else. If I see a pattern of problematic behaviour, I deal with it. Moderators do not only act on flags.

user310756

@terdon most of mine have been under my own posts. Some under others.

I think we need to pause again

I think we need to not have these discussions in here in the first place

@Nobody I'm not accusing you of anything. Just pointing out that we all comment, it's kinda hard not to.

They always end the same way

2:16 PM

@Cerbrus Agreed. I believe it's time to drop this. It's not helping.

Deploying emergency puppy to change the topic

user310756

@terdon true, but there's a group of people. It's predictable - they come in under certain posts. Posts they disagree with and it can become relentless and it needs to stop

user194636

paws

@Stevoisiak D'awwwww

user194636

2:16 PM

needs more cat

Just look at those ears! And that nose!

^^

4

bah, ninja'd

@194636 o/

2:17 PM

I like the blurred backgeround

Gwideon

hello

@rene I thought you preferred blurred foregrounds

@Cerbrus Boop!

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

2:17 PM

@Shadow brews a cup of Ristretto for @Shadow

user194636

@Emilie yay

@Zoethetransgirl those are really cute. awww.....

Yeah, gotta love wolves.

Not sure if they're red wolves or foxes, but cute anyway.

They're foxes

2:21 PM

@Zoethetransgirl No way! :)

that's what the site says at least ^^"

Another classic #terdonJoke falls as flat as they usually do.

@Zoethetransgirl This gets almost all my DAAAAAW the rest going to the image @Cerbrus linked above

@Zoethetransgirl BTW, regarding your comment on my post about the CoC difference, to me the old one read completely like compelled speech, but I had to look for a reasonably short quote to show that. I'm really not trying to be disingenuous about it there. (and in fact I upvoted the new faq where I downvoted the old one)

Looks like we need more puppies and kittens.

2:25 PM

@Gloweye I won't argue with that, because the way the original was written is horrible. The open aspect gets drowned out because it's not explicitly stated. My main issue is when the compelled speech argument gets used as a reason why the new one is better, when the meaning of it is exactly the same. The phrasing just makes a world of difference

Can I get a fluffy cute baby bird?

@Tinkeringbell Does this count?

AFAIK, the CoC itself is the same. Which means the phrasing is all the difference that we have.

Of course it does! Though it's not a baby ;)

2:26 PM

And NEW >>>>>>>>>>> OLD in what it says to me.

3

@Zoethetransgirl awww

@Gloweye More or less, yeah. At least from what I've read

rene

→ 11 messages moved to Trashcan

2:30 PM

@rene Fun fact: you could edit that with an animal picture :P

rene

I like to keep a track record

@Nobody Sorry, missed your ping. I'm sure you've received your fair share of fecal matter from this sh*tstorm. I was just saying that the quote of a comment made at you, was not intended to be about you once more. ;)

@Stevoisiak you did see he skatebird game?

@Bart I follow the dev on Twitter :P

:D Same

user310756

@Bart ah yeh. I asked Shog about that. It felt like comment author was being supported from the outset in saying that - albeit using their own logic against them

2:34 PM

@Nobody btw, go to sleep. It must be night there. :p

user310756

@Bart I've been woken up a few too many times O,o I was asleep nice and early and have to get up in <4 hours. I've had enough sleep to carry me through the day though. It's going to be hysterically hot tomorrow, so I'm going to the horses early and will try and make them comfortable.. :\

Good luck. Hot weather is awful.

user310756

that's Oct - imagine Jan

user310756

yehm thanks. The horses are an hour drive away and there's no real facilities there for me to use for me. Like drinking water. so I have to go prepared

2:37 PM

I'm glad to live on the northern hemisphere. At least, I am now. from June to august I'm generally not.

user310756

we're moving in a few weeks and we'll be living with the horses. It will be soooooooooo much easier

user310756

@Gloweye ah, so you chase winter

Nobody deserves the heat (and I'll stop making silly puns about your name now...)

user310756

I used to love summer, but it's getting hotter

If I were rich enough, I would chase the winter. I sadly am not, though.

user310756

2:38 PM

@Gloweye hehe! I like this name hey?

user310756

yeh it's accomodation that's the killer. and work if you don't work from home

True that. Sadly, AC at work doesn't take off more than 5 C off the temperature. Given that we got it up to 38 C last Juli here... well, that's not comfortable anymore.

user310756

that's too hot in an office

user310756

You're better off with open windows and a cross breeze

When it's 38 C outside?

You're better off in an A/C'd office, even if it's just 5 degrees...

user310756

2:41 PM

@Gloweye where are you?

It is. Luckily, management agreed and we had shorter days for full pay. And open windows wouldn't work either. I got daylight, but the windows are on the opposite side of the corridor.

Netherlands.

Oh, yea, last summer was hot...

But the company is in quite an old building, so that does't help.

user310756

@Gloweye ah nice

user310756

I've never been

user310756

2:42 PM

is that unusually hot for the Netherlands?

It went as far as me keeping my motorcycle helmet closed, because the air from my lungs was cooler than the outside ait...

Eh, it might be a good country to live it, but it's ugly and flat. All my holidays are to the mountains.

It is unusual yes

user310756

yeh that's bad. We need to plant more trees stat

Yeah, that's unusually hot.

user310756

2:43 PM

and reproduce less

A couple of trees aren't going to "cut" it..

user310756

it's clearing all the trees to make way for food production that's killing it

It's a balmy 24 here right now. Jealous?

we, as humanity, should reproduce less, but I can't imagine a way to put that in law that's not repressive.

user310756

it's 18 degrees here now

user310756

2:44 PM

@Gloweye we will have no earth as we know it left

user310756

China did it

@Gloweye China managed to do it... They had no problems whatsoever :P

Yeah, clearing the trees is stupid. We cut trees from canada and south-america, ship it here to europe to burn for electricity, and then they call that "green biomass" energy.

It's moronic.

user310756

yep

user310756

real bad

2:44 PM

"No problems whatsoever" hahahhahahahAHAHAHAHHhahaha demented laughter.

user194636

@Shog9 depends. fahrenheit or centigrade?

Guess...

user194636

F?

@194636 Both of those are better than 38 centigrade

I just got done shoveling snow

user310756

2:45 PM

@Gloweye yeh infant girls being murdered and a glut of boys with limited prospects for future wives

user194636

I'm going with F then

I <3 Snow

user310756

@Shog9 oh 24 degrees F.. can't you people get with the C?

user194636

@Gloweye She'll be pleased to hear that

Naw. C doesn't have enough integer resolution.

user310756

2:46 PM

OMG! -4 C

user194636

The modern metric world also features decimals

@Shog9 nothing stopping you from using Decimal.

user310756

How can we change our identicon?

"please turn the thermostat up .4deg"

user310756

I wanna different colour

user194636

2:47 PM

The only sensible compromise is C when cold, F when hot.

user310756

@Shog9 but.... nm :p

@194636 Was that a mod? In that case, plz dont sue for harassment...

God's changelog:
- Introduced decimals for the metric folks.
* Imperialists are never going to get that...

@194636 Eh. 0C isn't all that cold

user194636

@Gloweye Yeah she's in here often (user name Snow)

2:47 PM

@Shog9 It's freezing

user310756

it never gets that cold here

Quite literally...

user194636

@Shog9 Solid water speaks to the contrary.

user310756

literally

Now -30C... There's a good time to switch to C

2:48 PM

I'll call it her mistake for naming herself after a superior concept, then.

user194636

-40 is the best place to switch

user310756

so what's the opposite of snow then? :p

Any temperature is a good one to pick C over F.

@Nobody wons

@194636 Only pure water freezes at 0C. Who here is really that pure...

2:48 PM

inferior concepts are, for example, water.

user194636

@Nobody drought and forest fires unfortunately

user310756

@Cerbrus I deserved that :p

user194636

@Shog9 \o

user194636

yeah right

Suuuuure

Pigeon

Dress it warmly

Email, flag...

2:49 PM

-5 isn't that cold

Light jacket and beanie

user194636

@Gloweye We have literally zero days here per year that hit -5C

user310756

no, no no no noooo albatross can manage that distance Shoggles

SPArchaeologist-様

but it is on the data explorer.

user310756

Pigeon!

2:50 PM

We don't have enough days that hit -5 C

user194636

And Aussies would say it's cold here

user310756

unrealistic

No matter how many we get.

user310756

5 is freezing here (not literally)

user310756

celcius

2:51 PM

If it's cold, you can just put on more clothes.

If it's warm and you remove just a single piece of clothing to many, people start looking at you funny.

user310756

if it's hot there's joy in finding a shady spot by a water source and feeling the cooler breeze pass over you

Weather Network says I might be getting snow tomorrow :P

user310756

yeh and you can get arrested and the jail house may not have air conditioning - or fans and I don't think the cross breeze from open windows is too good

(Note: I haven't actually experimentally verified the "looking at you funny" bit, but I'm pretty sure they would)

We had a pretty cold day in Chicago this year... -30°C. That'll freeze you regardless of impurity. ;)

2:53 PM

jealous

Trasiva

3:08 PM

@Emilie Keep yer damn snow. I'm not ready for in the midwest, lol.

@Trasiva I don't mind the snow, but I do mind when it gets so cold that it doesn't even snow anymore :S

o/

Trasiva

@Emilie We had that here last year. I just don't want the snow yet, because we get a lot of international students. They go completely stupid the first couple snows.

How should I react when a user defaults to "his" when referring to a generic person

@Stevoisiak as if that's how they were taught English and you (and SE policy) disagree with that now. ;)

2

3:17 PM

This seems like a case where I might need to disengage

Can we talk about how a staggering number of nonnative speakers haven't even heard of singular they?

Assume good faith. That's all.

There was this faith stand, it was selling 'em in bottles

@M.A.R. No.

@canon Is there a way I can message you the comment directly?

@M.A.R. OK

I want a massage

3:20 PM

No.

@canon I made a room and messaged you

Dependent on the result, a creative SEDE query could also be an artform... spell something out with the first letters of results or something. Codegolf it ?

djsmiley2k - CoW

:O

@Stevoisiak Seems they've already edited their comment to employ a shotgun approach.

That's... unfortunate

3:23 PM

I wanna see "employ a shotgun approach" in a zombie game

I'm also not the best person to ask since I'm in favor of using they/their (however clumsy) universally with zero further consideration.

Said by the annoying doctor you're supposed to save who's connected to how the zombie virus spread

Sorry, my bad.

I agree with that sentiment. Especially when referring to a non-specific person

The doctor wanted to cure his daughter's cancer. Don't judge.

3:26 PM

I'll probably generally avoid pronouns (mostly talk on programming sites, with a bit of physics/worldbuilding on the sides), will probably revert to they if I can't help it. No matter how much I dislike singular they.

meh

For a hypothetical person, though, they feels... ok.

just continue to communicate like you always have

Unless you're referring to yourself in third person

If you accidentally use a pronoun that someone doesn't like they'll tell you, all you gotta do is correct.

3:27 PM

faq says that's not allowed, and I can't be bothered to try and dodge moderation.

@M.A.R. we never do so.

no it doesn't

@Bart Now I wanna hear you, Cody Gray, and who was that other glass guy, say it in unison

it suggests we should prefer gender neutral language, and use stated pronouns when stated. noone's gonna fault you for not digging through profiles, only for ignoring someone's direct request to use x pronoun

When I started reading D&D source books referring to everyone as "she", it was jarring for all of 5 minutes before I figured I didn't give a f*** and it's never bothered me since.

3:29 PM

@M.A.R. wait ... there are more of me?

@Gloweye I remember that. I think it started with 3rd Edition.

@Bart This is before the third act of the movie when you have a symbolic existential crisis and wonder what constitutes a person until you realize "oh screw it" and go kick the bad guy's arse.

@Gloweye I remember thinking, "Unless they use both pronouns more or less evenly, isn't this still sexist?"

Or take blue or red pills and imagine it all

Nah, as far as I'm concerned none of those are sexist.

3:31 PM

Dream within a dream, impressive Mr. Neo.

And if people get a kick out of calling me a she while it's biologically incorrect than well, more power to them.

@Gloweye well, someone made the conscious decision to switch from using he to using she... which implies that they took issue with the blanket use of he. Which I can get behind. But blanketly using either, in the context of eschewing sexism, seems like a failure.

Always "red" or "blue" pills. Get more interesting. Where are the purple pills? The neon orange ones?

@user58 No that's diazepam 100 mg

Cereal

I can get you some purple pills, but it's going to cost you

3:32 PM

Basically, don't do it

Well, given there's literal millions reading them, I think there's no single word left in those source books that nobody has a problem with

@Cereal xkcd.com/566 ?

Cereal

People make pull requests to remove gendered terms from open source projects. It's safe to say that if it exists, someone has a problem with it

I have a problem with that message.

And that massage.

I've rolled back every such edit on my own posts

😎

3:35 PM

@KevinB Wasn't there an edit war over var dude = new Person();? Dudes aren't people anymore, apparently.

If you have sunglasses at home at night then you're the man.

I didn't think I'd have to explain why "it" can be offensive to non-binary users today.

@canon i'm sure

@canon Well, in Hollywood, unless paparazzi are chasing you, you're not people. Jeff Bridges likes keeping it low

@Stevoisiak :|

3:36 PM

I use it more than other pronouns... as in:

I mean, there's been millions of posts, it's had to happen at least once

Python is great! IT lets you do XYZ...

Surprisingly, I cant find many articles to cite discussing why "it" can be hurtful

interface Dude { void Abide(); }

mag

it's one of these things that is usually blatantly obvious

3:37 PM

^

mag

it is an object term, it refers to objects

of course you don't call a person an object

it's dehumanizing

The best I could find was quote from the University of Wisconsin

@Stevoisiak I think your mistake was to answer at all. The OP disputed what a moderator requested. The OP should have complied or complained to them.

@Stevoisiak see, this is why I don't go back to main until the most controversial post becomes private messaging users again

3:37 PM

Isn't my body technically an object ?

Cereal

I'd be pretty insulted if someone made a PR on some project I had on github removing gendered language. Or really any superficial change. All my repos are personal projects, it'd be like walking into my house and demanding I paint my kitchen purple

@Raedwald I was assuming good intent that the user may not understand why it is offensive

Of course, in Python everything is an object, so...
class Person:
...
And I can still use "it"!

le pun

John Dvorak

@Cereal That's what you get for using a public dormitory

3:40 PM

@JohnDvorak not really, no random dude should be able to come in with purple paint and paint the rooms with it

now that's a long time no see @Saitama

John Dvorak

Of course not, but there is no restriction against shoving a can of paint through your glassless window, along with an offer to spread it across your walls.

haha, same man. how've you been

busy :)

you?

@Gloweye yes and no

3:43 PM

college rush, last year of high school... so writing essays and dumping money into tests and applications

:)

Sounds like fun ^^

Why the double answer, then? Technically yes, conceptually no ?

sure is :)))

Miss Jane - It's A Fine Day (ATB Club Mix)

►

Relevant to the weather discussion

3:46 PM

@Shog9 Reminds me somewhat of youtube.com/watch?v=cr_VKuwy4mc

I guess it's fine if you ignore the 10 degree drop in the past two days here

@Gloweye exactly. As a programmer, my body is just an object I can use. As human being, it's more than that.

And Celsius, not Far on Height

Cell Si Us

...and time to go refuel the car and home. Cya!

Opens one of the newest questions . . . Outright disrespectful . . . Outright rude and upvoted comment No thanks

3:47 PM

sends sun towards @M.A.R

@Shadow HAHA. Celsius rules.

Except as much as Kelvin.

@M.A.R. time to beak out the flags

→ 36 messages moved to Trashcan

@user58 I'd rather get pissed off at not understanding aromatic reactions

And Tink et al. are already probably dealing with too many flags at the moment

how about romatic reaction?

3:49 PM

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

romantic?

Trasiva

I love aromatics

They're fantastic when cooking.

@user58 Gross. That's biologist stuff.

@M.A.R. I'm handling the exact amount I can each day. Some days that's a bit more than others, but never is it too many.

Q: A stackoverflow rendered inside an Ad

0

I was on a random python question on Stack Overflow, when I saw a network ad. It was about Music SE. I clicked on it, and an ad got replaced with a tiny iframe with Stack Overflow page inside it. Tiny version of Stack Overflow knows who I am, but it doesn't really do much apart from just being th...

Hah, classic.

Wait, it's not a euphemism for ads consuming SO? Booo

3:54 PM

Whataboutery is no defense, right? Nobody, not even a third party, can complain when bad thing X gets moderator attention just because bad thing Y has not?

It is a defense, it's just weak

It's only a reason to have a good look at Y.

@Raedwald usually, we kindly request they flag bad thing Y for us too.

If you're holding on to the wrong part of the knife to defend yourself

BUT WHAT ABOUT NIXON

he was a good person