Tavern on the Meta

Tinkeringbell

8:03 PM

I'm waiting.....

ArtOfCode

o/ @Tink

Tinkeringbell

\o

Andras Deak

blue out of the blue!

\o

Raedwald

@SmokeDetector amused at least 2 of us.

Tinkeringbell

@Raedwald Oohh. I usually don't pay attention to the SmokeDetector... I know, bad habit.

@AndrasDeak Yeah, sorry 'bout that.

Andras Deak

8:06 PM

hey, I don't mind you're here :P

Tinkeringbell

Pfew...

Crisis averted!

Mgetz

10

Q: Yet another step down as moderator post

It saddens me and breaks my heart in a lot of ways to do so, so I'd like to explain very briefly "why". Can't say much because I'd have to plagiarise George Stocker's resignation notice and he's already verbalised that brilliantly. It's been great being on this site (diamond or not)... I've h...

3

M.A.R.

@Mgetz Oh, not him too :(

As much cliched as that line is ^

Everything is cliched. ur cliched

Jenayah

I see ads on Cross Validated and SO, but I think they're on a different provider. They at least look relevant (ie they're about tech)

Stormblessed

meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/390525/revisions

What’s up with the third revision here?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

8:15 PM

@Tinkeringbell Finally, since there's an active mod in this room...spam account: meta.stackexchange.com/users/629715/velofelreviews

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Honestly? There's like over a 100 flags and trash fires... and I'm getting spammers? :P

Mgetz

@Stormblessed no idea, looks like a potential bug

@Tinkeringbell 99 problems?

Tinkeringbell

@Mgetz And that ain't one (no longer, at least ;) )

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell you getting back into the thick of it?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Kinda. I think I handled 3 flags now, at most?

I'll try, at least.

Oooh! I'm already up to 8 :D

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

8:17 PM

I retracted one of my flags (a request to migrate something to MSO), as the OP deleted it and reposted it there.

Tinkeringbell

I'm on a rollll!!!!

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Thank you! :)

Froopy

Hello.

I came here a few days ago and I ended up getting scared off because I thought I did something wrong. I just wanted to pop in and apologize, especially to @user58

Kevin B

o/

Froopy

I've always been kinda scared of this whole community because various reasons. I don't tend to fit in well in things and whatnot. So that's why i'm a bit shy and sensitive to things.

Beyond that, hoi and hello. Hows things?

Kevin B

toasty

Froopy

8:27 PM

Heat is most awesome in these months of cold

Magisch

4th resignation on stack overflow: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/390525/…

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch You're late... chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7984794#7984794 ;)

Magisch

so I am

...

Mysticial

Unless I missed one, it's the 4th only if you include Yvette who resigned before pronoun-gate.

Magisch

George, Ed, Robert and now Jon

With Yvette it's 5

user58

8:38 PM

Another One Bites the Dust - Queen

►

Mysticial

@Magisch Oh you're right. I missed Ed. How could I?

Tinkeringbell

@user58 By now... 99 bottles of beer may be more appropriate...

Magisch

ed is kind of in the background. Very important to the machinations but not very visible

Froopy

Tis a lot of resignations.

Mysticial

@Magisch Now that I think back, I do remember seeing Ed's resignation. But it was sorta at the same time as Robert's.

Froopy

8:40 PM

Still surprising how hard this is for some people to accept...

Magisch

this is random but the name froopy has a nice ring to it

Mgetz

@Tinkeringbell aaactually for Jon... and particularly because of his profile

Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up (Video)

►

Froopy

Thank you! My best friend made it. Rick and Morty stole it from us lol

Tinkeringbell

@Mgetz I still need to crochet that QR code patch...

Magisch

sounds onomatopeic for a yoghurt or a cat

Froopy

8:41 PM

I just kinda adopted it and took it as my own.

Jenayah

Makes me think of Droopy, from the Looney Tunes.

Froopy

Not entirely inaccurate. I've been accused of being a debbie downer XD

M.A.R.

@Tinkeringbell Ohai, you vaguely look familiar

Magisch

reminds me of the froop brand of yoghurt

Tinkeringbell

@M.A.R. I wonder why...

M.A.R.

8:44 PM

Are you . . . that person who . . . Nope

Or that once when we . . . Nope. Still Nope.

Froopy

Is that yogurt any good?

M.A.R.

Or that one time with pirate bandits demoralizing street vandals . . . Nope.

Magisch

the parrot has returned from the south

user58

@Tinkeringbell Any idea what the total count is by now?

Magisch

out of season but the theme fits

Mgetz

8:45 PM

@Tinkeringbell Oh I'd post it as an answer on his resignation if It wouldn't get flagged and me banned

M.A.R.

Yogurt is awesome.

Tinkeringbell

@user58 Of resigned mods? Nope, sorry... wasn't there a thread?

user58

probably

Rubiksmoose

1573

Q: Firing mods and forced relicensing: is Stack Exchange still interested in cooperating with the community?

The last weeks and days have seen some erratic behaviour by Stack Exchange Inc., such as likely illegal changes to the content license and the firing of an upstanding community moderator with no explanation except copy-pasted responses (leaving many to believe it was for no good reason). It wou...

discussion support moderators community

M.A.R.

Is Stack Exchange still interested in Cooper?

Yeah, that one.

user58

8:46 PM

@M.A.R. Nope, they dumped him.

Magisch

@user58 37 I think?

Mgetz

Spaceballs (6/11) Movie CLIP - Merchandising! Merchandising! (1987) HD

►

Rubiksmoose

lol

Magisch

37 out of over 600. They're probably not really sweating it

M.A.R.

@user58 What is the world COMING TO?!

No, really, what's the world coming to.

What's trending these days?

user58

8:48 PM

@Magisch 60 individuals have either stepped down, been removed, or have suspended activity, from what I see.

M.A.R.

There's no GoT, there's not enough Kardashians maybe

Instagram's new features?

user58

That's over 10% of the total mod population.

user384163

But really, hasn't the world always been filled with monsters trying to tear the vulnerable apart?

M.A.R.

Nah

Froopy

I have this uncanny feeling SO's going to go through a 'fawkes' phase.

Tinkeringbell

8:48 PM

@AGirlHasNoName If only! My monsters were always trying to tear me apart, not each other...

Froopy

Burning away and starting anew.

M.A.R.

Sometimes it wasn't monsters

user384163

@Tinkeringbell ohh good point

Tinkeringbell

I do make those at times.

M.A.R.

@Froopy that only happens in movies. I mean Britain. I mean movies.

user384163

8:49 PM

@Tinkeringbell better?

Magisch

@user58 Yeap, even if they all step down and none come back, thats under 10% and they'll be able to backfill it by early next year

Tinkeringbell

@AGirlHasNoName Ehhh... Sorta ;)

M.A.R.

@Magisch You're underestimating the impact.

And moderator shoe sizes.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Response to the open letter:

7

A: Dear Stack Exchange: a statement and a letter from your moderators

Thank you for writing to us about this. This isn’t our final response here, but in the interest of being transparent and keeping lines of communication open, we wanted to respond with something as soon as possible. While this isn’t the answer you’ve been looking for, we wanted to update you on so...

Magisch

even on TWP I know like 3-4 people who would probably run, and they don't even need that many

user384163

8:50 PM

I only had 2 minutes to edit. I had to think fast and I didn't have time for a dramatic change

M.A.R.

That can be forgiven since you're not a shoemaker.

Right?

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog OMG OMG OMG

Tinkeringbell

@AGirlHasNoName ;) It's okay, really :)

user384163

No. I failed :[

Magisch

so removal process is next tuesday, the press policy was known since yesterday, the rest is just acknowledging they read it

no waves

Tinkeringbell

@AGirlHasNoName It's okay! You didn't fail. It's just that I've seen monsters go after strong people too ;)

Froopy

8:52 PM

Every announcement from SE is seeming like a barrage of platitudes that otherwise do nothing.

user384163

Ohh that's fair.

M.A.R.

@Tinkeringbell Epic

Mgetz

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog it's a start... they had a means of feedback that they chose to ignore: metas

divibisan

@Magisch Maybe I've just got low expectations at this point, but hearing that they're revising the FAQ based on the Pronomial-Proposal is really heartening to hear

M.A.R.

@AGirlHasNoName Meh, I hope this chat goes back to the mood where not every utterance needed thorough inspection. If tactless was a sport, I would've been the champion.

user58

8:56 PM

> It's hiding in the dark, its teeth are razor sharp
There's no escape for me, it wants my soul, it wants my heart
No one can hear me scream, maybe it's just a dream
Maybe it's inside of me, stop this monster
I feel it deep within, it's just beneath the skin
I must confess that I feel like a monster
I hate what I've become, the nightmare's just begun
I must confess that I feel like a monster
I feel it deep within, it's just beneath the skin
I must confess that I feel like a monster
I've gotta lose control, here's something radical

202324

rare spam

user58

Skillet - Monster (Official Video)

►

M.A.R.

@user58 stop being paranoid. They're not hiding in the dark.

Magisch

@divibisan Eh. Lets see exactly what they change. My hopes aren't high

Mark

If I'm counting correctly, the latest resignation makes it 83 out of 670 moderator positions that have been fired, resigned, or suspended activity.

7

user384163

8:56 PM

@M.A.R. I have carefully examined my every statement for as long as I can remember

M.A.R.

Not even plain sight. Boat sight.

user58

@M.A.R. They're not. I am.

Tinkeringbell

@user58 Does this count as a monster too?

M.A.R.

^ Exposure to Magisch

user384163

Paramore: Monster [OFFICIAL VIDEO]

►

user58

8:58 PM

@Tinkeringbell That's a much less... intense... monster.

Tinkeringbell

@user58 This one then?

Eminem ft. Rihanna - The Monster Lyrics

►

M.A.R.

Is it cookie monster, because I don't wanna turn on VPN

user58

@M.A.R. Elmo

M.A.R.

Oh.

Tinkeringbell

I think it was Elmo...

user58

8:58 PM

@AGirlHasNoName Paramore's good.

user384163

@user58 Yah I might be a bit of a fangirl

M.A.R.

Lµ is such a cool name

user58

Found 'em through Spotify a couple months ago, wish it had been sooner

user310756

I'm so tired of the incesssant complaining about the site on the site. There comes a point where repeating the same things. then abusing and accusing the staff of malicious intention - when in fact the staff are flat out and the work load on meta is too great atm. If people quit complaining for a day and stopped posting foul comments and constantly arguing the staff would have more time to post. My ten cents

Rubiksmoose

@Mark I count 58?

user58

9:01 PM

I only count as one, sorry

ba-dum-tsh

user310756

I've had well over 100 comments under my post. They were all nuked and now they're flowing again

Rubiksmoose

@user58 lol!

M.A.R.

@user58 You're such a Monthly Python

Froopy

@yvette, if people were more capable of such things, strife would be a lot less prevalent in the world than it is. My cents. solidarity

Mark

@Rubiksmoose I'm counting moderator positions, not individual moderators. Monica, for example, moderated six sites, and so counts as six positions.

M.A.R.

9:02 PM

Let's not assume the other side is whiny just because they care. My cents.

@Mark well, this makes more sense

Magisch

@YvetteColomb tis' the way of things. right now are not pretty times and many of the more reasonable voices are suffering from extreme outrage fatigue

user384163

@YvetteColomb Thank you for speaking up. I have only said a few things and the backlash has been intense. I am grateful for every other positive voice out there because I am exhausted too.

M.A.R.

Reason one: It's not 58's estimate.

Froopy

It's never easy being the voice of reason.

M.A.R.

Thank you, someone gets me

user384163

9:03 PM

There are just too few voices of kindness and reason.

M.A.R.

Hey, I can be a voice of kind and reasonness

Froopy

Way too few. Some voices angrily shout nonsense to the sky in the hopes of... something. Some voices stomp down dissent. Some voices just wanna be voices.

M.A.R.

No, they're not few. It's just that shrieking is always louder.

Magisch

really at this point unless staff posts something new there is no reason to continue finding new ways to roll this same yule log

user310756

@AGirlHasNoName thank you! I am relentless, because the backlash is relentless. And there's people who are not speaking up who are glad I'm being a voice for them.

Magisch

9:05 PM

they're probably well aware of how people think by now and voicing it again doesn't do much if not backed by action

M.A.R.

@Magisch ADDENDUM: This rule does not apply to kitties.

user310756

@Froopy tots agree :\ human beings hey

Magisch

in that vein, further resignations and strikes are probably the only effectual measures right now

@YvetteColomb re your post that you're coming back

does that mean I can flood you with flags again soon

ominously eyes the pile of unflagged serial voting in the corner

Froopy

@Yvette, I don't know if this will mean anything to you coming from a nobody like me, but I have a lot of respect for you. Way to stand up for whats right even when it seems like holding a broom against the ocean. I've seen your posts around the last two weeks.

Well, some of them. It's hard to keep up in this tornado.

M.A.R.

Frankly: Lumping criticism into a sack labelled "haters" has been done enough and I'm sick of it.

Both/Multiple sides have done it. People keep doing it as we speak.

user310756

9:09 PM

@Magisch let's see if the network will have me back :)

Magisch

@YvetteColomb I shall have a pile of flags waiting

If you become a mod again i'll celebrate this with the 1000 custom flag week :)

M.A.R.

Hey I'm trying to be angry here

Magisch

well, the 700 custom flag week

because the system won't let me raise more

user310756

@Froopy you're not a nobody. No one is a nobody, we're all somebody and thank you, it means a lot. I was brought up to stick up for the underdog - always. It's so second nature - it's like breathing. Care for those who need support - stand up and be counted.

user310756

@Magisch thank you darling I look forward to it xo

user310756

9:11 PM

@M.A.R. oh soz, do continue

M.A.R.

Nah, I can't be angry

user310756

Shhhh @M.A.R. is being angry

M.A.R.

It's mostly everyone else's job

Maybe I should be angry that I can't stay angry for long

user310756

I spend erm 60% of my waking life angry lol

M.A.R.

I just . . .

I just wish people stopped making arguments to emotion, for all purposes

Froopy

9:12 PM

When you put it that way, it makes so much sense it should be obvious. Thank you for your kind words! That's welcoming. Way to embody the spirit.

Shog9

Jan 13 '16 at 21:26, by Shog9

I wanna see some blood & guts on meta, dammit.

2

user310756

emotion is ok - if it's used to drive good. People get scared when people are emotional

Froopy

@M.A.R. Emotion does count in it, though.

user310756

hi @Shog9 shoggles

Shog9

hello

user310756

9:13 PM

it's when the emotion clouds reason it's not good

Froopy

o/ Hello there.

user310756

as a fuel it is ok

Shadow

Hello

Mysticial

@Shog9 better late than never

Shog9

y'all are slow

user310756

9:14 PM

@Shog9 I'm being really good - promise.. direct, yes, but in control - surprisingly since I've been able to mute all notifications

M.A.R.

@YvetteColomb It's not just clouding reason, anything that isn't based on reason can be challenged

user310756

@Froopy thanks darling. :) That's like a mumma bear darling

user58

@Shog9 <Zootopia sloth clap GIF>

Shog9

@YvetteColomb excellent

M.A.R.

feature-request Add a moderator notice "Argument from pathos"

user310756

9:15 PM

@M.A.R. ah you missed the point - emotion is the fuel that drives us. As long as it doesn't cloud reasoning

user310756

emotion and reasoning are not always incompatible

M.A.R.

@Shog9 I see hichris echoed the same thing I keep echoing inside of me

Here, look . . . Or don't. My insides are messed up.

Raedwald

@Shog9 Be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it."

user310756

we live in a world were almost psycopathic indifference is revered as "professional" or business etiquette. I challenge that notion. it needs to change, There's room to be reasonable and rational and still have a measure of emotion

M.A.R.

@Raedwald — Gandhi

user310756

9:17 PM

@Shog9 I just can't joke about it atm. sorry floating head

M.A.R.

@YvetteColomb Complete and utter lack of bias has always been impossible for the fairer historians.

That's relevant to your message somehow.

I will just stare meaningfully into the void. Or the wall in front of me

Froopy

:) awww

M.A.R.

BUT

Let's be honest, the center of at least the current discussion has evolved around emotions.

user310756

@M.A.R. "fairer"?

M.A.R.

That's why it gets out of hand, and it's why people say things they wouldn't or shouldn't.

ArtOfCode

9:19 PM

@Shog9 something about careful what you wish for

M.A.R.

@YvetteColomb fair, as in, hmm

user384163

@YvetteColomb I'm one of those people

user310756

@ArtOfCode exactly - it's a little too close to the bone right now

M.A.R.

Someone help me out. Fair as in Gyllenhaal's hair.

user58

@ArtOfCode You keep getting ninja'd.

3 mins ago, by Raedwald

@Shog9 Be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it."

user310756

9:20 PM

@AGirlHasNoName thank you for telling me and others :)

David A

@YvetteColomb Apathy keeps me out of trouble. Whether staying out of trouble is a good thing is debatable.

ArtOfCode

@user58 natural consequence of not reading the backlog :P

M.A.R.

@user58 remove his RO-ship. We need snarky smarties for RO.

Bart would approve that statement

ArtOfCode

@M.A.R. well you've got the snark... :P

user310756

@DavidA lol I am not going to judge. I dunno.

M.A.R.

9:21 PM

No thank you, I'm not good with gloves and smoke

Froopy

This whole thing sparked up a long ago memory from work days where bigotry ended up with me walking about 20 miles home from a construction site. Hadn't thought about that in years.

M.A.R.

Rene probably has an entire hazmat suit when he walks into the room

user310756

@Froopy that's a loooong walk and a lonely walk from the sounds of it

Froopy

People can be so horrid without even realizing it and even think it's okay. I wish I knew how we got to that point as a people.

user310756

human beings are not the nicest species

M.A.R.

9:22 PM

@Froopy I knew buses were bigots. They always hate cars, especially Lightning McQueen

Froopy

I almost cried. But I was damn proud I didn't flinch and stood my ground.

user310756

we fail to use the thing that got us to the top of the food chain - our frontal lobes

Froopy

Buses...?

M.A.R.

@Froopy I think we're actually improving, for what it's worth

Froopy

Some yes.

Some not.

M.A.R.

9:23 PM

In the grand scheme of things.

Magisch loves saying that ^

Froopy

I feel like those nots are an anchor holding humanity back.

user310756

there's always an element within human beings that is consistently skull duggerous

user310756

I agree - they are ruining it for the rest of us

user310756

and by rest of us - the entire planet

user310756

the greed

M.A.R.

9:24 PM

@Froopy well, exactly. That we're even discussing it shows the principles of not-ism are shaky

user310756

which is linked to power

user384163

@Froopy As someone who used to be a raging bigot. It's easy when you don't actually know any of the people you purportedly hate. Making us visible and making us human is dangerous but also intregal in helping others realize that they are being... uncouth.

user310756

fun fact. The last time I saw a trans gender person (that I was aware of) was over 25 years ago.

M.A.R.

And honestly, I would prefer a world with choices to a perfect one

Froopy

Yeah. That's true. @AGirlHasNoName I just expected more from a person I looked up to as kind of a father figure fire me on the spot for saying I think gay people are perfectly normal.

user310756

9:26 PM

The one and only time I had a conversation with a trans person - face to face was 30 years ago ( a little over)

user384163

@Froopy wow....

user310756

and that encounter stuck with me so much that I have this overpowering love and compassion

Froopy

I read that encounter! That was beautiful!

user310756

and our country was so bigoted back then

user384163

@YvetteColomb fair. I think my statement is an oversimplification. I was in a bubble and then fed hate and dehumanization.

user310756

9:27 PM

@AGirlHasNoName sounds like there's an interesting story there for sure

user384163

It wasn't just my lack of exposure but also a culture of learned hate.

M.A.R.

@AGirlHasNoName A much more accurate statement than most simplifications

David A

Well the comments on that OneAngryGamer article were.... different.

user310756

@Froopy we grew up new a place called "The Spastic Centre" where poeple with cerebral palsy were sent. I got my first ever job there and my mum drummed into my head that these poeple were like anyone else, but trapped in their faulty bodies - it taught me compassion at a deep and fundamental level

user384163

@YvetteColomb can you link me to the encounter

Froopy

9:29 PM

I've heard people say some vile things around where I live. I live in the southern united states and it's... sad. I can see why people feel scared to speak out.

M.A.R.

Ugh, online gamer personalities are just not my thing.

user310756

@Froopy did you see that in the meta chat room?

user310756

@Froopy ugh - condolences - we have parts of our country that sound similar to those states

Froopy

I can't remember where. It's been almost a week. I feel like it was in a chat?

user310756

@AGirlHasNoName yes children can be indoctrinated to hate.

user310756

9:30 PM

@Froopy yep I'll see if I can find the link

user384163

But they can overcome it too.

user310756

ofc!

Froopy

@Yvette, your mom sounds like a wise woman.

user310756

> Many years ago, over 30 years ago when I was a young woman. I met another young woman at a bus stop. She had started hormone treatment and had budding breasts. She was experimenting with makeup and was preparing for surgery to have a "sex change" I don't know the right way to put these things.
This was in Australia when trans people were ridiculed and unsupported. We talked and she had no one. No family, no support. She was insecure and wanting reassurance. We talked about her makeup and clothes and I said she looked beautiful.

Froopy

^ Sometimes you never know how much just simple acknowledgement means to someone.

user310756

9:32 PM

@Froopy she taught me well to see people apart from the bodies/circumstance they were born into. my father is Asian and we had a very racist country (he's euroasian - and I hid the fact he was Asian from shame)

user310756

anyway. I'm working. I'll pop in on my next break \o

David A

@Froopy I actually live in a more urban area of the southern USA and would consider myself right-libertarian (by US standards). Still, it's not that hard to be decent. By acknowledging the dignity of others, you preserve your own.

2

user310756

stay strong and hopeful people!

Froopy

Aye. It was wonderful talking with you.

user310756

> At the moment it feels like we're on an island surrounded by lava. It's time to use our wings.

Froopy

9:33 PM

@David, I'm not saying everyone in the south is a bad person. Just... a large swath.

user384163

@YvetteColomb Thank you. I hope she turned out okay too. I know I couldn't have done it then. I don't have that kind of courage.

Froopy

She's braver than I ever was, that's for sure.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

There's still some vestiges of bigotry left in Australia's politics, e.g. the Pacific Solution

Froopy

I remember being terrified in high school of standing up to a fellow student who said something vaguely bigoted against gay people. My voice quivered, but I said it, because I thought at the time if I didn't, it would do a disservice to my (then) boyfriend.

David A

news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html is actually a good read.

2

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Froopy

9:38 PM

I can understand why it'd be difficult to assume good faith in all situations. Especially when you deal with the same stuff over and over again.

It's like expecting the boom to drop.

Kevin B

yeah but if you assume good faith you can't turn it into an argument you'll win

user384163

Assuming good faith is a shield for trolls.

Froopy

^

But that doesn't inherently make it bad.

Most of my friendships are started with a decent amount of trust. The moment it's broken, they've blown it up beyond repair.

user384163

I've had it repeatedly used against me by people who have been harassing me into silence when I speak out against the vitriol.

Froopy

I'm sorry that has happened to you.

Having to deal with that, I can't imagine how that made you feel.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there are good people out there.

divibisan

9:44 PM

@AGirlHasNoName I think it can be good to assume it for yourself, at least at first, but as soon as someone demands good faith, then it's clear they don't deserve it

user102937

@DavidA I like this one:

user102937

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site.

user384163

@divibisan That's not bad. I will remember that. But my queue to leave is here.

Jason Aller

Assuming good faith creates space for the other person to demonstrate through their response if they deserve ongoing good faith, or if they need a flag.

7

divibisan

@AGirlHasNoName Take care!

Froopy

9:46 PM

@AGirlHasNoName Sorry if what I said was offensive.

user194636

There's a queue to leave the Tavern? Things are worse than I feared.

Andras Deak

:|

Froopy

Hi, Andras o/