In the end, there won't be any effect on SOFU. The only sites where you might possibly notice somebody's trans is on sites that don't matter financially to SE.
I also don't believe that 40% of the user base will be upset over this. Call me naive or optimistic or whatever. I've seen it. It's just not that huge of a change at all.
@JohnDvorak Of course it would, but that's not going to happen either. Most of the mods that did resign resigned over other issues (or in addition to the change) from what I've seen. And even at peak drama we've been nowhere near 40% resignation.
Can someone confirm if we're allowed to blanketly use anonymous pronouns, e.g.: they? If not, I'm concerned that the "correct pronoun" is a potentially moving target and it's setting us up for failure and chatty comment sections. SE ought to consider a profile option, not just something squirreled away in a profile description and let us use a specialized tag in comments, e.g.: [they:M.A.R.] or [their:M.A.R.] which gets expanded on render to the desired pronoun.
@JohnDvorak AFAIK it hasn't really been increasing that much the last few days. And at least a couple got reinstated. But yes, I realise that it is not static.
@MadScientist We shouldn't have to bother looking it up or the back and forth of being corrected, making the correction, and having to remember those things... lest we be penalized for forgetting that particular user's preference a week later.
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It's hard to miss these days - the Code of Conduct is about to change. It will emphasize the importance of using the correct pronoun when referring to a user in third person. This most often comes up in chat, and some users already have information about w...
@canon you don't have to correct it, you generally can't do that in comments or chat messages anyway. You just have to use the correct pronoun continuing the conversation.
If all we get out of the discussion is more people who can feel comfortable participating in the network because their identities are more respected I'd class that as a win-win scenario
@AndrasDeak Yeah well pros and cons I guess. Plenty of userscripts are useful for only a small number and aren't value added enough for the company. And plenty have been the basis for officially added features.
Yeah, but the real problem is not not knowing pronouns. It's being homophobic/transphobic/enbyophobic/etc., and decent people are already treating these minorities right, and indecent people will just be agitated by it. But we can always try.
I recently ordered a thing from a german site and when signing up one of the profile questions was "How to address you" with options something like: Mr. Ms. Mrs. Dr. Prof. Eng., etc
@Magisch and one difference is that not using swearwords and all the other fluff need only one point: yourself. Using pronouns needs constant active attention to every other user whom you're talking about, some of them not even present.
from my friends in europe I hear it's pretty common to have doctor or engineering titles displayed prominently before people's names, so the site can also support such functionality in profiles, for those who wish to click someone's username to find out how to address them
I've been happily defaulting to "they" unless I knew the gender of whom I was talking about. Apparently that will no longer work, even though my impression had been that this is fine.
I'd rather not have to keep checking someones's profile when talking about them. Even if I remembered to and the profile was actually available to be at a scroll and click.
@AndrasDeak If you're addressing someone who talked right before them and their name says "Magisch (he/him)" then it's not really hard to acknowledge that
Like I said way back when right before this all blew up... you don't have to be worried that you'll be stepping on eggshells. Nothing's really changed; it's just a slight re-word of the CoC to make it clearer. The intent and spirit hasn't changed at all. You are not going to get punished for honest mistakes or acting in good faith.
@AndrasDeak people shouted at the company "do something", they didn't read carefully enough what people really want and did something, very heavyhandedly, and now for the first time they're actually starting to get into the nuances, but personally I haven't seem many nuanced examples of their work recently, so we'll see what they come up with next update
I would like to see it somewhere in the new rules about consulting with mods to set the discussion to dates outside of major holidays observed by many users and mods
@canon it's all up to how people feel. If a certain person feels distress by some way of communication, you can try communicating differently within reasonable bounds
@user1306322 That'd be nice, but kinda really difficult for this month in the Jewish calendar. I'm out almost more than I'm in this month (like today, I was offline and fasting for 25 hours).
And the point I think is that "they" is not a "neutral pronoun", it's one of multiple possible non-binary pronouns. So the people who ask not to be addressed by it suggest that it's not universally "neutral"
What if I intend to use a plural they, and a mod thinks that I'm using singural they referring to someone who expressed he/she didn't want to be referred to as such?
@canon Well a certain (now ex) moderator has publicly stated that she is hurt when people use "they" to refer to her. It just comes down to respecting people.
If you think SE staff has the manpower, coverage or even willingness to get into the nitty gritty of sanctioning harmless technicality-over-spirit CoC violations, I think you'd be mistaken
There's an important distinction being lost with the resignations. Most of the moderators who stepped down did so not because of the change to the CoC, but because of the way that a fellow moderator was treated by SE. That's a huge difference. There were those who stepped down because of the change itself, but very few.
@Rubiksmoose If they is used consistently, it can't very well be interpreted as othering. If you call 99 people by he/she and single one user out as they, then yes; it's othering.
@AndrasDeak 58 is right for once. Everyone seems to keep saying it but then ultimately ignore it and try to weigh the decisions and actions against the ethical/moral validity of CoC.
Witness this historic event, for it will not be long before 58 is wrong again.
@AndrasDeak If we're the meta user to whom you're referring, the correct means to address the crown is, galactic president mcawesomeville canon. We appreciate your deference in this matter and hope to see you soon for tea.