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6:00 PM
@Stevoisiak There's a few folks who're linchpins
@Stevoisiak how so?
@JourneymanGeek was that rollback comment for that answer, or the question?
Seeing which communities have had multiple mod resignations, and which ones havent
@CalvTs erf
I'm clearly tried
tried and true :p
6:01 PM
@Snow sorry to be cynical, but if a mod is dismissed by the company I don't think they'll be allowed an appeal on the grounds that only court/forced arbitration could settle it and it would still be hostile.
So tried you need a good rset and some splee?
@Mgetz So why would Sara talk about an appeals process?
I've seen one community without any mod resignations, but worry that the fall of SE could hurt the welcoming community they currently have
@Snow for future cases. I don't think appeal will be allowed in this case
6:03 PM
@Stevoisiak and well, sadly enough that can be a concequence of what happens now
at the end of the day the SE staff is the final court of appeal. If they make a decision it is final.
@Mgetz its just as important the process is fair
@JourneymanGeek A fair process involves lawyers and a court room. We're not and never were going to get that.
@Mgetz its true
But I've never seen a action by SE do so much damage to the network, ever
@Stevoisiak I'm wondering what community you are talking about. There is a lot of different community in SE and I think multiple of them might be in the case you are describing
6:05 PM
and honestly
@JourneymanGeek I have, but nobody realized at the time. It's irrelevant now at this point as it can't be changed.
methinks they've cleared the way for the Super Moderator Election 9000™, where they'll be able to get all the Right Thinking people in
I see the best and worst in people
@FélixGagnon-Grenier :/
@Ælis I'm purposely not mentioning it because I don't want to out anyone
@Mgetz well not in such a short time
6:07 PM
@JourneymanGeek true, what I'm referring to started ages ago, but it's the root of what's happening here.
and not in a time which is supposed to be crucial to SE's future
But it always is isn't it?
I'm assuming you don't to elaborate on what change that was
@Stevoisiak depends on who you ask
@Stevoisiak Make seen and this community would probably appreciate that
@Stevoisiak Nope, because re-litigating it now won't change anything
6:09 PM
@Stevoisiak I always felt that the focus on careers to the exception of core Q&A was a start
and the same folks probably were behind toe focus on SO
things were getting better
@Ælis I'd prefer not to. I'm sorry.
@JourneymanGeek it's older.. much much older, the things that set today in motion go back at least to 2013ish if not further back.
honestly, felt like we mattered for the first time after the great big layoff
@Mgetz ah
There's quite a few sites without mod resignations, but quite a lot of them are the small betas whose mods don't frequent TL so much
@Stevoisiak Oh no, don't apologize, I was just saying that I agree with you decided to not "out" this community (sorry if I wasn't clear ^^')
6:14 PM
@Ælis Ah, ok. Thanks!
@ArtOfCode That's what I thought. Since I spotted at least one with no formal mod declaration, I was curious to know if Stevoisiak had spotted the same or another one. But, in any case, it might be better not to say. So I will just leave it at that :)
I more-so didn't want to out because of sentiment of the community
@Ælis SU hasn't lost any mods
It's a friendly chat in there right now, and I wouldn't want to ruin that
@ArtOfCode Lucky buggers.
6:17 PM
whether any given mod decides to stand up is their very own private business, as private as it gets, and discussing it would be in bad taste
But least for me, I'm sticking out for my community rather than anything else
and I'll say the core folks there are excellent and kinda have been a great help in getting through this
also, they're worried if I'm holding up ok, which is touching ;p
@Stevoisiak Sorry, didn't want to start an argument, I didn't think this topic would be so emotionally loaded (I might have needed to think more before posting, sorry about that ^^)
nd that's true of a lot of spaces
@JourneymanGeek When I was first reading up on this, seeing your post was what made me realize how serious this was. I look up to you as a voice of reason on SE.
Thank you
6:20 PM
Not related: those all chat have different "ping noise"? This chat room make a weird "bird noise" when someone pings me which is different than the pings I'm used to (on "The Awkward Silent")
@ArtOfCode I know I directly informed one of the mods of said sites and I've respected their decision not to get involved.
@Ælis Different chat sites
But unless the right people listen, I'm not sure what good I can do
There's chat.so, chat.se and chat.meta - all have different noises
@Ælis I think each server does
@Stevoisiak honestly - the big goal for me is if we come out of it
6:22 PM
Oh, thanks for the explanation!
@Ælis it's the door alert sound from Star trek IIRC
we're not so fragmented and bitter and angry we can't pull things back together
@Mgetz So, not a bird xD
Maybe deserve my MSE hammer again ;p
I would not want to be an MSE mod right now
I would not even want to be an MSE room owner right now
Q: Threshold experiment results: closing, editing and reopening all become more effective

Shog9This post details the outcome of an experiment that reduced the thresholds for closing and reopening questions to 3 votes on Stack Overflow. Warning: this post is looong. There is no "tl;dr". There is no summary. I've been thinking about this crap almost every day for 7 years, and I'll be damned ...

@Stevoisiak I honestly, and correctly felt I couldn't handle it at this point of time
Oh hey, some good meta news.
@JourneymanGeek Completely understandable.
"I've been thinking about this crap almost every day for 7 years, and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna inflict at least a little bit of that pain on anyone else who thinks they're interested." - Hey, Shog made me laugh, even on a day like this one.
6:27 PM
@HDE226868 some people have the gift ;p
And some certainly don't...
They do not
Some also wish they did 😁
Agh. This whole situation is depressing.
Uhmm also water is wet
@Ælis It's been not fun for the past few days, I'll admit. It's about as bad in the MSO equivalent.
6:38 PM
I mean like 90% of the site's userbase will never even learn of this entire incident, so different perspectives
@HDE226868 I reiterate my Tweet.
I only learned about this yesterday. Catching up on it has been... an experience
@user58 Oh, yeah, that one. :D
@user58 Your tweet?
@user58 :/ Lots of love and courage to you <3 Also, I will most definitively not checkout this MSO equivalent (well, I probably shouldn't even be there, all this agitation is bad for my sleep but I couldn't resist ><)
6:40 PM
@user1306322 I'm sure folks will find ways to 'educate' members of their community on happenings
Aw man, the pinnidemic got here too. Sigh
Can folks just, take a break?
@Ælis Heh. Both this and the MSO Meta room have been ... interesting :D
How's TAS holding up?
@Magisch All the other chats I know are having fun.
Only the Tavern and SO Tavern get all the emotion and commotion
Quick, give me -tion nouns
I guess I won the lottery then eh
@M.A.R. demotion
6:43 PM
subscription, upvotion, bellringtion
Germans are winners by default.
@M.A.R. devotion
@Magisch We manage to (mostly) avoid the subject, so things are fine (and quiet... with no fire... which is very nice ^^)
@user1306322 but those 90% won't be helpful for replacing mods
@M.A.R. Is it bad that my first thought was "demotion"?
6:44 PM
Actually, accepted answer
@vikingosegundo my interests lie with the community at large, not (whatever SE is doing these past 2-3 years, I don't know what it is, they're not talking, or whatever they are doing is not it), so if there is another network of sites whose interests align with mine, I'll join that
Have +15 imaginary imaginary points
it'll be interesting how they'll deal with the "brain drain"
@M.A.R. Hooray! 🎉
Plain slain brain drain
6:46 PM
@user1306322 personally I have reduced my involvement here years ago — because of where the community was heading. Let me know once you found that community.
@M.A.R. pain gain campaign
(I edited my previous message because some companies find success in pursuing both profits and the interests of their communities, so it's unfair to lump them all together)
My favorite: "newton's third law of motion"
@vikingosegundo TBH, I think you're setting expectations for a community open to the internet at large a bit too high.
6:48 PM
@vikingosegundo yea, same for me but like 2.5 years ago, but I'm still doing my thing from time to time, and I bet you'll know first because of how normally detached I am from these news
I guess we have to keep in mind: the users of a social network aren't it's customers. they are it's product. and so are we.
well, technically, we are content providers for a platform
If it's going to be about chocolates, real chocolate experts, real chocolate expert eaters and real chocolate expert makers would show up. But if anyone can join, the 99 percent will be the "dark chocolate" vs. "milk chocolate" teams.
oh yea dat Lindt 72%
@vikingosegundo I'm mostly a square root.
6:49 PM
none of that <50% milky biz
a step too far imo, let's not
Whatever. Lines are pretty vague anyway.
That should be okay any other day, but since as usual I always miss all the drama
I forget where to step not to murky the waters.
Was it "murky" or "muddy"?
well... the "that should be okay any other day" lasted for about a year 2 years ago...
Or "moddy"
Ruby chocolate is a variety of chocolate introduced in 2017 by Barry Callebaut, a Belgian–Swiss cocoa company. The variety has been in development since 2004. It was unveiled at a private event in Shanghai on 5 September 2017. It is marketed as the "fourth" type of chocolate alongside dark, milk and white chocolate varieties.The chocolate is made from "ruby cocoa beans". These are existing botanical cocoa bean varieties that have been identified as having the right attributes to be processed into ruby chocolate.The chocolate's taste is described as "sweet yet sour", with "little to none" of the...
Maybe "Rambo"
@Mgetz One step closer to making that candy house.
6:52 PM
isn't that just additives or alternative ingredient "chocolate-like" product?
white chocolate is just cocoa bean fats iirc, not the grounds of it
like "teas" can be fruit or herbal mixes
@user1306322 no, read the article. It's based on unfermented chocolate
@user1306322 Do you know that every Lindt "black" chocolate contains milk? (#VeganRant)
The EU in particular gets very annoyed if you call something not chocolate chocolate
@M.A.R. It looks like my internet points just arrived
hmm are there any brands that make non-dairy chocolates?
6:55 PM
@Stevoisiak I'm still annoyed about how they decided to visually position the green box for the numbers
it's not centered, there is a hint of that star on the cup barely visible
@user1306322 ...You know, I never actually noticed it before
So thanks for that :P
sorry for ruining the site for you :D
@user1306322 In France, I know some but you will most likely only find them in "organic store"
I just run with like 130 custom css and greasemonkey scripts which I started making since 2009 coz I just can and don't need to wait
6:58 PM
Oy! That was my project you are dissing!
I'm pretty sure you can find my feature request to fix it from like 2014 somewhere
Probably :D
@Oded wait, stacks/the design refresh went back that far?
Absolutely - got started a good while back.
Changes like that take time
7:00 PM
i always figured it was something that got picked up in the post suck period
6 to 8
@Oded may I ask why?
I am writing a question but I am not sure it is a bug or a feature request.
@user1306322 causen computer programming is nothing like crop dusting
is there no dedicated queue for UI/UX stuff among devs which works in parallel with the backend stuff?
7:01 PM
@NogShine add bug feature request and discussion
@user1306322 full stack developers
@user1306322 I suspect that divison is something that is narrower the further back you look in SE's history
@rene there are departments in big companies, where people work on different stuff separately >.<
@user1306322 SE is not a big company
that statement evokes emotions
7:04 PM
@john Oh! I never thought of such a solution. Actually I wanted to write it as two different questions. One as bug and other as FR.
@user1306322 why?
@NogShine don't double post
I added a bug for now. Is FR also applicable?
I meant "add one post and tag it with all of [bug] [feature request] and [discussion]".
7:09 PM
I understood. Let's see what happens.
@user1306322 because there are dozens of site designs and the change needed to work with all of them (to make things consistent and easier to change in the future)
I get the impression that UMZ #9 still being featured is not really doing anyone any good. Its score dropped to -16. It appears to be blocking a more important post from showing up, too.
7:31 PM
We've seen some longish meta posts recently, but a Money mod kept it short, saving everyone some reading time.
7:42 PM
Oops, fennec was not a mod. @Magisch
Yeah, I just checked money.stackexchange.com/election
I should pay more attention to the presence of diamond.
I rolled it back
I assumed it was already gone
my bad
8:13 PM
Hey @Oded
Hi ho, @Sklivvz
nostalgia party!
Hey, we have a slack full of nostalgia. We are just crashing yours!
I'm delighted :)
Please don't crash it, it was expensive
8:41 PM
Is this question getting close votes? I don't want to answer something if it's off-topic
@Magisch The problem with such take-overs is this: earlier or later you will expel everybody. And then, they start to be bored, seeing only the faces of each other. Then maybe you expel each other. But, it is more likely, that the SE will be over.
@Ælis No, only downs.
@Gwideon hi!
@Ælis You should not answer something if it off-topic on your opinion. The opinion (close votes) of others don't bind you, unless they are at least 5 of them.
8:43 PM
Hi new faces
Hi peterh
A: Firing mods and forced relicensing: is Stack Exchange still interested in cooperating with the community?

SklivvzI'm a moderator on Skeptics, and I'm suspending my activity as a moderator, too. Like Mad Scientist, I also have lost my confidence in Stack Exchange and see very little hope for a significant improvement of their relationship with us, the community and the mods. As Mad Scientist said: The...

Um i'm sorry if asked an off topic question
@Ælis It has two by now, but if you do answer it before it closes (likely a few hours at least, considering moderation strikes), it's pretty okay.
8:44 PM
I was wondering about it. I asked another chat about that question and they said to post it here
@peterh You can see that with only 2000 rep? I thought it was 3000, like the "casting close vote" priviledge
Meta isn't and shouldn't be so hard on that. If you can help someone by going the extra mile and answer or edit, nothing should stop you
@Ælis its at 2 close votes atm
only people with 3000+ can see pending close votes
Alright, thanks for the information :)
8:45 PM
@Gwideon No it's pretty okay
The only wrong off-topics on meta would be Android Listview, VBA and selling Viagra.
I think it's on topic
if it gets closed, I shall vote to reopen
@M.A.R. Also, it means that I probably have to answer tonight if I want to answer. I was hoping I could wait until tomorrow (European hours) :/
it's kinda my first time posting on meta so yeah
8:47 PM
I don't see any particular reason @Gwideon's question should be off-topic.
Skeptics is down to 2 active mods
@Gwideon I agree with the others, I find your question interesting and useful too :)
@Ælis My estimation is probably not that reliable; I can't get myself to read anything on the site these couple of days so I dunno how fast things attract close votes. And that is regardless of the fact that there might be a dispute over whether it should be closed.
@Ælis From 3000 can I cast close/reopen votes, but I see them already from around 300
@peterh 250, only on your own posts
8:48 PM
okay um thanks
@Gwideon If you find something is worth discussing you should very rarely refrain from doing so, downvotes and close votes are feedback but not hindrances on metas.
@M.A.R. From 250 can we cast close/reopen votes to our own questions; probably this is also the limit, from which we can see close/reopen votes on the question of others.
okay. I wasn't quite sure how to format my question so i did my best but I do admit it's probably not that good
@Magisch basically one, Jamiec is almost inactive (but I was doing about 50% of the work)
8:51 PM
@Oded And now it's the lowest scoring undeleted question on MSO. meta.stackexchange.com/questions?tab=votes&page=6039
I was just about to post that :D
It's official. Most downvoted post ever. In 5 hours flat.
I was waiting around to see if it happened for a while, lol
8:52 PM
I'm sorry but all of this drama kinda makes me sad
@RoijanEskor The page is 404 for me, possibly because of a different page size (15/30/50). A more robust way is to link to search by score: meta.stackexchange.com/search?q=+score%3A..-300
@410 Curious! I wouldn't have suspected. Thanks for the tip.
Yeah, the site giving a URL that says "show page 6039, no matter what the user's page size is" is not expected behaviour.
@Gwideon don't be
8:55 PM
I don't like seeing people fight
Fights are sometimes necessary.
If you don't fight for the things that are important, they might be taken away from you.
yeah I know
but still it makes me sad that it's neccesary
Sometimes we forget
nothing is granted
@Gwideon Couple of unfortunate things:
and everyone meets the day they have to fight to keep what they love
8:57 PM
Hi, I have a quick Stack tech support question. My network profile has been out of date for two years now -- it has the wrong pronouns and the wrong username, and has for quite a while. But the "update profile info" menu doesn't appear to be working -- the page just refreshes without anything else happening. Does anyone know why / how I can get my network profile to accurately reflect my current profile?
1. These are hard times and that's not a surprise to anyone, but it means that all other discussion will either be drowned or not thoroughly discussed because people are so tired.
sadly yes
@Aza Scratches head That worked for me, lemme check
@Aza If you update your profile on a site and hit "save and copy changes to all", does that work?
8:58 PM
@ArtOfCode Nope! It updates on all individual sites, but not the network profile.
@Aza try updating your oldest profile (first site you registered on)
@Aza hm. Any userscripts running?
@Aza cough
Do you see this?
...it, is fixed? @Catija waaaas thaaat youuu.

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