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12:11 AM
@moot that's the new thing.
If you don't know about something, write a blag about it.
Q: ForLoop help plz

user1257428for(String name: names){ System.out.printli(name); } What is the first line mean ? I understand for(int i=0; i<=10;i++).

Is there for(String name in names){ } in Java?
1:01 AM
About to go to the apple store dressed as a genius.
So... not dressed like anyone in the Apple store?
1:30 AM
CDN is lagging terribly or timing out entirely...
3:16 AM
@animuson no. Exactly like half the people in the apple store.
3:46 AM
@Moshe I'll post it on the innertubs
2 hours later…
6:04 AM
Ohhhh shit I forgot I had a cut on my finder >_< bad hand sanitizer!
6:16 AM
Forgot to get a photo with a genius, but I have a photo of me dressed up.
@animuson ...but no cigar
2 hours later…
8:28 AM
@PopularDemand You may like this...
RE Episode 3
2 hours later…
10:14 AM
Huh? Interesting edit.
I've rejected the edit because it looks like quite a lot of change.
10:51 AM
Hmm. I can review / reject / accept edits but I can't see list of them until 10k ?
@Martin Less than that I think
But not immediately, no
@TheUnicornWhisperer could you give me a link to page where I can see all edits? Let's gonna try it
This post led me to this chat room. I want to start out with an assessment of how welcome I am here. waves
@StevenJeuris hi !
10k for flag reviewing :/
Here's a bit of Tavern trivia
This post:
Sep 27 '10 at 17:51, by rchern
ooooooooof i'm an idiot
and this one
Feb 6 at 23:33, by Knox
has the same number of stars
hides before @RebeccaChernoff wakes up
10:58 AM
How do you guys generally feel about discussing the procedure by which discussions occur on meta in this chat room?
I have ample reason to believe this is a topic which we should proactively pursue.
First we should agree on a date and time for writing an agenda for a meeting to talk about considering discussing the procedure by which discussions occur.
@balpha Already this is showing great promise! ;p Thanks for leading me here.
Should we announce this discussion in a Meta post in order to involve more people in the discussion?
(After we have decided on a date of course.)
@balpha Do you feel it would be constructive to post your comment as an answer instead, so that I can accept it?
the question is closed
so I couldn't post an answer even if I wanted to
Devs don't have permissions to answer all questions? That sounds strange
11:13 AM
I could of course reopen it
@balpha Why could? I fail to see how this was not a support question. Should I retag it as discussion instead?
I'll do any updates necessary to open it again.
@balpha don't you have a second to answer my question about rolling changes?
12 hours ago, by Martin
I wonder how does rolling changes over the Stack Exchange network works. How do they effectively change code all over the network and when they want, just on meta, for example?
Can you explain why you feel that your question is not a duplicate of the question you (and I) linked to?
@StevenJeuris Could because I agree with the closure. The last line of the question is a duplicate, the rest is a rant.
@balpha Why is it not closed as a duplicate then instead?
(not saying it is)
It's not a duplicate because it didn't address problems why Meta can't be discussed on Meta.
11:17 AM
There's more rant than duplicate
@YiJiangsProble_ What you interpret as rant is my argumentation. Let's consider that to be subjective.
@StevenJeuris Meta can, and is discussed on Meta
As it happens the community disagreed with you. That's all.
@YiJiangsProble_ And I invite you to argue for this in x other meta meta posts I created. I don't recall seeing any argumentation from your side on those posts.
@Martin We have four builds set up in Team City (previously we used Cruise Control). One for the dev tier, one for meta, one for stack overflow, and one for the rest. Except for the dev build, the (almost) only difference between the other three is what servers the build gets deployed to; Meta runs on two servers, SO on six different ones, and "others" on another three.
11:19 AM
the load balancer takes care of routing the requests to the correct server
@StevenJeuris What is 'my side'?
Everything that can point out this review is wrong. At least that's how I interpreted your opinion, sorry if that's not true.
@balpha So if you want to roll changes over the whole network, you edit three copies of file, am I correct?
@Martin No, we just click three buttons in the build control. The actual software is identical, pulled from the same mercurial repository
@balpha oh, that's it! So actually core is only one. When you want to test something on Meta, you just deploy changes there, right? What if someone builds Stack Overflow to fix bug? Wouldn't he deploy changes you intended to keep on Meta only for testing?
11:22 AM
@balpha If you don't want to reopen, I suggest you mark it as duplicate, and merge them. You can drop my question, then I don't have to edit it at all. I'd appreciate it if you did merge my answer.
@Martin Yes. In addition, we have per-site settings for certain features, so we can also enable them on Meta first and on other sites later
@balpha ah, that answers my question I just added
I'd love any argumentation as to why that wouldn't be a good idea.
@balpha So even in case you build to all three .. I'm not sure how to name it ("sectors" ?), you still have an option to turn it off on demand
As a counter argument to it not being a duplicate however, the answers there don't answer my support question.
11:27 AM
@Martin Precisely. We always want to be able to build all sites if we have to, exactly for the reason you mention: If there's an urgent bug to be fixed, saying "we can't build SO because we're testing something on Meta" is not an option.
But you could easily achieve that by adding your comment as an answer there.
@balpha Thanks for your attention !
1 hour later…
12:35 PM
<div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Article">
<link itemprop="image" href="http://cdn.sstatic.net/graphicdesign/img/apple-touch-icon.png">
<div id="question-header">

    <h1 itemprop="name"><a href="/questions/6422/select-1px-aliased-border" class="question-hyperlink">Select 1px aliased border</a></h1>
<div id="mainbar">
I didn't notice this in SE site's HTML before
When did SE sites start including these type of microformats in their markup?
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Hi!
Whats goin on here? ^_^
3 hours ago, by balpha
First we should agree on a date and time for writing an agenda for a meeting to talk about considering discussing the procedure by which discussions occur.
1:38 PM
ehhh why is this getting voted down?
Q: I got no rep for an upvote?

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM ASee my reputation page here: Where is the +10 rep for the upvote? I did not seem to get anything for it. What happened there? Is there something I missed?

Srsly biznezz
Whats with the bold on the meta reputation page?
@StevenJeuris what did you say?
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA I asked which question you were referring to, but I didn't see your second message yet.
@StevenJeuris lol ahhh ok
Weird that it was downvoted twice.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA You find it weird questions get down voted on meta? :)
Let me read it, I'll see whether I could find a reason which causes this.
1:45 PM
@StevenJeuris Well not all questions. just that one in particualr because it is a bug report
nothing to disagree upon lol
U didn't use any lists... ;)
@Lix I see no reason to
It is not a rant
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA There is no consensus or general rule on how to vote on posts on meta.
or on making lists
You can only guess at how the voters interpreted it, and try to improve on that.
1:47 PM
@StevenJeuris Lol. so how do you interpret it?
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA valid bug/invalid bug
The question has +3/-1 now. Just sayin'
@StevenJeuris true true
@YiJiangsProble_ I see ^_^
HA! now people are downvoting that answer even though its not wrong
it only got downvoted because of one of my meta questions
Q: Should others downvote my posts for "grammatical" reasons?

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM ASomeone decided to start downvoting my answers due to them being too bulletin boardlike (not good grammar and capitalization) Is there a way to report those users? And if so, what can i do about it? edit Here is one example

Woops, accidentally down voted there for a second. :) Sorry. Could still revert it.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA That's an assumption.
But I understand how understanding meta is frustrating. I go into detail on it here. You might find it an interesting read.
@StevenJeuris You know what happens when you make an assumption?
1:51 PM
Meanwhile, don't worry too much about votes.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Nope?
I worry more about close votes and delete votes.
@StevenJeuris You make an Ass out of you and some guy named Umption
Those are a real issue.
@StevenJeuris have you looked at my meta posts recently? lol
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Lol! :)
Q: Define "Duplicate" in the context of meta

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM AThe following question was closed as a duplicate by a randomMod ♦: How come the "Learning to write a compiler" question was deleted? How is this a duplicate at all? What I see is an someone who asked for an answer to his/her question and got an answer for it. Why was it dubbed a dupli...

1:55 PM
That seems like a good one!
Let me read it.
I found recently people argue, 'this has been discussed before' ... and subsequently fail at closing a question as duplicate. .... stares @balpha.
@StevenJeuris It was downvoted as a <rant/> but it was not meant to be
The problem with Meta is they claim they have the right to simply state something is a rant, without arguing why, ... because they don't have to, because it's a rant.
@StevenJeuris I know... it is quite frustrating....
It's stuff like this that make me focus 100% on meta meta at the moment. That's why I'm in this room. I was (more or less) sent here through this support question.
@StevenJeuris And this question was closed...
Q: Should users be able to circumvent the minimum character limits by adding HTML comments to their posts?

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A Possible Duplicate: Should HTML comments be stripped when validating answer length? See my answer here: http://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/123638/155556 (now only 10K+ viewable (since the OP was deleted)) I was able to make my answer "" (yes that was on purpose) In the end you can read ...

And I dont think it was rly a duplicate
1:59 PM
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Well .. I argued Meta being frustrating would be a good measure of measuring Meta's effectiveness, but Meta isn't open to any metric to find out how effective meta is.
stuff usually comes down to the mods swinging their hammers....
What I deem to be the best approach at the moment is fuzz around in this room. Raise concerns here. You have more of a fighting chance here than on Meta.
be loud, claim your right to be heard. That's something they do agree on.
@StevenJeuris I wish I had links to all my mod deleted meta questions
then u can see all the sillyness...
If this room goes haywire, I created Meta Meta for that.
Please do only start discussions there if you feel inappropriate handled in this room.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Really Evan Carroll? You're playing the "the mods are tyrants" card?
2:01 PM
@StevenJeuris hehe did u read all the edits on the question?
view it in source mode
Twas meta meta for a bit before @random closed it
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA If you read the tooltip when you hover over the button, upvote also means "this post shows research effort"
@YiJiangsProble_ Claiming Q&A tooltips apply equally to Meta are we? :)
@StevenJeuris lol
@Shog9 himself made clear he doesn't believe that is true. Argue against him, not against us.
Wait. why can people delete the duplicate link?
2:06 PM
@StevenJeuris Actually, I was talking to him about the answer he just posted on MSO regarding what upvotes mean
A: Upvote mechanism strictly for "I have the same question"

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM AUpvote, by definition, usually means one (1) of two (2) things: I like this question, it is appropriate for this site and I want other users to benifit from it and it's answers. I have the same question

@YiJiangsProble_ My statement remains the same. Oh, nope .. I agree on Q&A of course. Sorry.
@StevenJeuris Did you know also that unicorn barf has magical properties that allows it to cure cancer?
It could get quite confusing, discussing meta meta on meta. Let's hope ambiguities like that don't arise too often.
@YiJiangsProble_ ?
4 mins ago, by Yi Jiang's Proble_
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA If you read the tooltip when you hover over the button, upvote also means "this post shows research effort"
2:10 PM
@YiJiangsProble_ Did you knowing throwing kitties in a conversation is quite an effective way of improving it?
@StevenJeuris The tags and exist for a reason
@YiJiangsProble_ ok?
@StevenJeuris I don't think you should ever throw kitties =(
@YiJiangsProble_ Yup, I figured I could use them as a metric to measure meta effectiveness. Having to discuss often would make me believe it's not that effective.
But that tangent has been shut off.
@jadarnel27 Point taken! How about fedexing them?
@StevenJeuris Use what as a measure of what? Actually, never mind, I don't want to go there.
2:13 PM
@StevenJeuris That's acceptable, as long as they have plenty of bubble paper to pop during the trip.
@YiJiangsProble_ That's what I said. :) P.s. I do find that people often don't notice tags. One of my main arguments is there is a big confusion between and .
@StevenJeuris I think that's just you.
See the updated link
Howdy @JNK! How did you escape from that The Heap? Are you seeking refuge in the Tavern? I don't think we have much SQL here. But we have booze.
If you'd like to raise concern for that argument, be sure to leave a reply pointing out why it is invalid.
As @balpha said, constructive stuff should go on Meta, NOT in chat.
2:16 PM
@StevenJeuris I don't disagree with the argument, I don't care for it. I just don't understand what you expect the outcome of it to be
Anyone have a new example I can use?
Q: Why can we delete the duplicate link?

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM AFor example this question on scifi.SE was closed as a duplicate. The OP, in his infinite wisdom, edited out the duplicate link! Why is this allowed? This should be prevented, or the duplicate question link should be present in the close reason. Now if any future users (who are not used to the...

@YiJiangsProble_ Okay, it's your right to ignore people caring about the argument.
"First of all I want to raise awareness (as by this post), that there is a problem. We are driving people away who only have the best intentions for the network."
@StevenJeuris I don't understand why you keep pointing me to that post
@YiJiangsProble_ That's why I keep linking you to that post. Until you specify what you don't understand about it.
Meta is there for a reason, let's not do that in chat. That post seemed to have attracted positive feedback, leaving your concerns behind there would be more constructive.
@StevenJeuris Not really. If I were doing this on your post, I would be using comments, which that post already has plenty of.
I'm not particularly concerned about the 'Meta isn't suitable for discussion' part, most people here knows that already
What I want to know is, what are you going to do about it?
2:26 PM
Although it's for the best, that (originally) up voted answer which entirely misinterpreted the OP was no answer at all. That should be deleted.
@YiJiangsProble_ I agree, long comment threads are unconstructive.
@YiJiangsProble_ I leave it up to you to find some of my down voted posts of my concrete suggestions. I feel I linked to them often enough. I leave all kinds of traces to them in the comment threads as everybody keeps asking that same question. But then there they say "I just don't agree with this suggestion, as I find meta suitable for discussion"
Kata for meta, remove votes from questions on meta, trying to find ways in which to prove meta doesn't or does work.
@StevenJeuris Which is true - you're asking for radical change to a system that works pretty well. The developers have priorities, and that priority is on the Q&A system, not the Meta sub-system that talks about the Q&A system
I wonder who would win in a fight between Spiderman (with no web shooters) and Captain America (with no shield).
Probably Spiderman.
No. Definitely Spiderman.
@YiJiangsProble_ Yup, that would be a valid argument not to invest in any of my suggestions at this time. Feel free to add it to the discussion.
I believe nobody left that behind yet.
"The developers have priorities, and that priority is on the Q&A system" .. that bit.
Not the "meta works".
@StevenJeuris I'm quite sure "it works good enough" has been mentioned several times in response to your arguments
See, Spiderman has a "spider-sense". Also, technically Captain America is not super-human.
He is just in peak physical condition.
2:33 PM
@YiJiangsProble_ Let me rephrase, "The developers have priorities, and that priority is on the Q&A system" hasn't been mentioned, "meta works" has.
Whereas Spiderman is super-human. He can pick up a small car over his head!
It would be nice to have an overview of those arguments, wouldn't it?
@jadarnel27 I was just checking in
A: Could we use a pros/cons list to format discussion?

Steven JeurisBy popular demand, an improved mockup of the idea. As content for the mockup I used this very discussion. It includes only several of the arguments I was able to identify. A list of all them can be found in my other answer. Hopefully you can 'imagine' them inside the currently presented mockup. ...

@StevenJeuris It would be better if you would write concisely enough that no such overview is needed
2:35 PM
I upvoted that FWIW
But you are lucky there's no question ban on meta, @StevenJeuris
@YiJiangsProble_ I explain that in the comment thread with Cody Gray, and even provide some evidence for that. That doesn't work. There is a reason that particular long post has up votes and my others don't.
@JNK Thank you!
That's actually all I'm asking for, not that it should be implemented. Just that it should be discussed.
@StevenJeuris That people upvote based on post length and not actual quality? I kid, I kid :P
@YiJiangsProble_ No, that people down vote concise posts which they disagree with quicker, than long posts which raise several arguments.
Of which in some of them they see value.
It's the context that allows to make more rational voting decisions.
@StevenJeuris You can't have that on Meta. If you're going to talk about a feature, talk as if you want it to be implemented. If not it really would be a waste of time
Oh I want it to be implemented. But as my long post explains. I gave up on that. I only do meta meta now.
There is no point in doing meta, if you feel meta doesn't work is there?
Also I'd like it if that post is starred here, obviously it has attracted some attention. At the moment the 'general agreement' is this is discussion worthy. I'd like to see that reflected in this room.
Q: How can Meta be made more conducive to discussions?

Steven JeurisDisclaimer: This post is quite lenghty. To prevent out of context interpretations I kindly request either reading it in its entirety or not reading it at all. Thank you. Why am I writing this? I've been active on the Stack Exchange (SE) network for over a year on a wide variety of different sit...

Although I really appreciate the 4 starred post which is there currently!
2:50 PM
I would challenge anyone to come up with a compelling reason that Captain America could beat Spiderman in a fight. Or even come close.
@jadarnel27 If he becomes friends with Superman, and band together?
@jadarnel27 Is sci-fi chat active right now? I'm closing this line of conversation as off-topic and migrating you there :P
@JNK Actually, you can get question-banned on here. But it's tough, and I think it's a manual process now.
@YiJiangsProble_ lol a fair point =)
@StevenJeuris Captain America and Superman live in different Universes =)
If the community wants to question ban me, that's what it should do. I'm only here because I have a feeling I can have an impact. That long post of mine gave me hope.
Not to say that they've never crossed over. But generally Marvel and DC don't interact much.
@StevenJeuris I definitely don't think you desverve to be question-banned. I hope I didn't imply that.
2:56 PM
@jadarnel27 Nope, I wasn't addressing you.
@@Shog9 ^_^
Q: Why can we delete the duplicate link?

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM AFor example this question on meta.SE was closed as a duplicate. The OP, in his infinite wisdom, edited out the duplicate link! Why is this allowed? This should be prevented, or the duplicate question link should be present in the close reason. Now if any future users (who are not used to the ...

@StevenJeuris Cool.
Heading home! Hope to pick up on this discussion at a later time! How do we go about choosing a date?
@StevenJeuris I think we've pretty much covered all the possibilites. Spiderman wins, hands-down.
No need for more discussion.
3:12 PM
@@Shog9 -- so mean to me :-(
@jadarnel27 see what @shog9 did there lol
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Yes, he's very clever.
@jadarnel27 look at his edit revision notes though. its a bit condescending. He could have just added that as an answer... :-(
@@Shog9 -- please unlock that post. I was trying to prove a point...
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA So was he :P
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Me too... ;-)
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA I guess I could see that (maybe). You were kind of antagonizing him though. And that's exactly what the answers to the dupes say.
3:17 PM
@Shog9 Ok. did you see my flag?
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Yup. Did you see my decline reason?
@Shog9 Yes, but that is not the way the stack exchange works. As it has been said time and time again -- no answers in the OP
answer the OP in the answers.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA But it's answered in the linked duplicates, right?
It doesn't need to be answered, because it's a duplicate - go read my answer to the first question linked...
(see, I didn't even need to come in here - Yi and jadarnel are beating me to my own responses ;-P)
@Shog9 Can you at least remove the lock?
It is still a valid question even though it might be a dupe...
3:21 PM
@Shog9 Would you care to weigh in on the other important discussions going on in this room?
50 mins ago, by jadarnel27
I wonder who would win in a fight between Spiderman (with no web shooters) and Captain America (with no shield).
@jadarnel27 *cough cough* told you so *cough*
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Eh, it'll be gone in an hour.
@Shog9 Hahaha, @YiJiangsProble made that suggestion as well.
I bet posting that as an actual question wouldn't go over well.
@Shog9 .... you can;t just remove it?
I see no reason for it to be locked...
3:26 PM
@StevenJeuris The more I think about this idea the more I like it (or something similar, it might be tricky to get it right). There have been many times where I thought a post got a large number of upvotes not because its core point is right, but because it was padded with very-agreeable-but-not-entirely-related points. Better voting granularity (by point instead of post) would help a lot.
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA Well, I could... But this makes a more effective demonstration while the question's on the front page.
Here is when attempt to open chat.meta link from office :)
@Shog9 .... very nice .... great moderating ....
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA You cannot say you didn't see this coming
@YiJiangsProble_ See what coming? A lock?
I wanted the duplicate link to prove my point. but the lock is excessive.
3:40 PM
You don't think the lock further proves the point?
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA That is standard procedure for this. It's pretty much what post locks are for. Oh, and it proves the point rather well too.
@jadarnel27 No I do not.
> Of course you realize, I had to close this as a duplicate. And now, you must edit out the link - for maximum irony – Shog9 47m ago
@YiJiangsProble_ ^^^^^^^^^^ He even (basically) told me too!
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA /facepalm
3:43 PM
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA How'd you expect me to maximize the irony? ;-P
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA It proves that the current system works. Dupe posted -> Closed as dupe -> dupe link edited out (by someone who understands the system and knows better) -> Post flagged -> Mod rolls back, and locks to prevent further abuse.
4:14 PM
Can somebody answer my question?
That's just a comment, it would require specialized knowledge to answer and it's very broad. I'm not sure what kind of response you're trying to get.
Yeah, I'm unclear on what the question actually is there.
4:49 PM
There have been zero gold tag badges awarded on Programmers.SE (and only one silver tag badge). I find that interesting.
In a related note, I should probably do something about tweaking my internal definition of "interesting".
I'm sure that's because of post count, and not reps...heh.
Oh, wow. I never noticed there were only 16k questions on that site. A good point, @Tim.
5:14 PM
The /inbox route is gone. Oh noes. What are we going to do?!?!?
Help us Obi-Wan Bee-Alpha, you're our only hope!
Okay, so I don't even know what the /inbox route did.
@mootinator It was a really ugly, unformatted version of your inbox tab =)
5:20 PM
@jadarnel27 Who's that?
Oct 15 '10 at 20:57, by Shog9
pictures balpha, enraged, trashing the server room with a 2x4 yelling "bal-FAH? bal-FAH?!!"
@mootinator Well. It was more like your "inbox" thingy in the super-collider. Because it showed messages from all sites.
public ActionResult Inbox() { // Annoy @jdarnel27
    if (!request.IsAjax()) { return new NotFoundResult(); }
by-design is such an annoying close reason for an issue
Haha, I said void. lulz.
@mootinator I like you. You're alot of fun.
@CodeInChaos You have misplaced your hyphen ;-)
It's totally -bydesign
5:26 PM
@CodeInChaos it's not a close reason
While on meta.SO it's technically not a close reason, it pretty much ends the question.
And in many trackers, such as MS connect it is
They like their "won't fix" and "by-design"s
How are you making those?
square brackets
5:32 PM
@balpha You have made me look silly =)
Note the length limit :P
Hi all!
Hi @Steve
5:35 PM
@CodeInChaos Would you rather not have a reaction at all?
> I'm not saying you should tell your community that their feedback sucks, even when it frequently does. That'd be mean. But don't be shy about politely declining requests when you feel they don't make sense, or if you can't see any way they could be reasonably implemented. (You should always reserve the right to change your mind in the future, of course.)
> Sure, it hurts to be rejected – but it hurts far more to be ignored. I believe very, very strongly that if you're honest with your community, they will ultimately respect you more for that.
@mootinator What's up with english people and not knowing how to end a name on 'n'?
@StevenJeuris I think "mootinatorn" would be an awful name. ;-)
But hey, I've gotten used to be called steve, steven stevie or steef, stuie if you really want to get funky.
I'm just lazy, I could have just as easily gone with "Hi @Ste"
Oh I get those ignored issues too. For example when telling the joomla guys that their security tokens suck.
5:37 PM
It doesn't matter, I forgot SE's chat system is smart enough to handle that! :) laziness in mind, you've got to love it.
Hmmm. I didn't think editing and then immediately deleting my answer would bump a question to the front page. Perhaps I should have reversed those two actions.
@balpha My feedback never sucks. By definition.
It's only other people's feedback that sucks.
@CodeInChaos I think you're confusing you with me
@jadarnel27 Deletions are activity too
@Shog9 I think you're confusion us with people that care. ;p
5:48 PM
There are a few issues where Jeff decided "only over my dead body". Are these open again now, since Jeff has <strike>died</strike> moved on?
@StevenJeuris Oh, no. I never make that mistake in The Tavern
@TimStone I don't think that's correct... let me go test it.
@TimStone no, deletion / undeletion doesn't bump
<strike>died</strike>? Whatever happened to ^H^H^H^H?
@CodeInChaos A safe bet would be "no" - but there are always exceptions
5:49 PM
Since when?
@TimStone Since... Ever
@mootinator It never existed
@Shog9, could you give your opinion on whether or not Meta Meta is allowed to stay if the 'planned' discussion wouldn't work out here?
@StevenJeuris what do you mean?
@TimStone Right. I was thinking that by immediately deleting my answer, the edit would not bump it (since I didn't think deletions bumped - which I guess is correct, per Snoop Shoggy Shog up there).
It'll stay unless folks abandon it or it fills up with porn
@jadarnel27 No, you misunderstand - edits bump. Even on deleted posts. Deletion itself doesn't bump.
5:53 PM
@Shog9 Ah, that's where my confusion lay.
But now y'all have made me paranoid and I have to test this :-/
No, you're right.
I didn't think that was the case though
I knew edits bumped, but didn't think they would on deleted posts. Although I guess since I edited before deleting, it doesn't matter either way.
@Shog9 I just deleted a post in the formatting sandbox a few minutes ago: no bump.
5:54 PM
I know that there was a time when a user deleted a lot of answers, causing them to float to Stack Overflow's front page.
He must have also edited them, I guess.
During my meta meta discussions I've been pointed to use chat instead on a few occasions. I can agree on that point. In order to assess how Meta felt about that, I asked this support question. What I got out of it is this place is a better place to be discussing this. And I agree so far. I just want to be guaranteed a safe haven if these would end up being an equal hostile environment as Meta has been on the subject.
I think @Shog9 should change his display name to "Snoop Shoggy Shog".
@Shog9 What the...
Ah, must have been hitting different caches somehow
Was clicking the active tab and the post you edited kept disappearing and reappearing
No, I just edited a deleted post. Which bumped. If that hadn't worked, it would have been very bad.
Covertly deleting, editing, then un-deleting a post sans bump would be very bad?
5:59 PM
@mootinator Yeah... And there's still the slight problem of being able to edit a deleted post into something horrible, wait for it to drop off active, and then undelete - but this depends on no 10K / mods seeing the edit, which is possible but not a given.
It's always possible to sneak stuff by; but as long as there's no sure thing, we're ok.
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