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10:00 PM
@drachenstern Oh, that's fine then. That time starts.... now.
@MichaelMyers I actually think it's a crime punishable by worse than suspension, but that's just me. I also have far reaching views on other things, that I have come to find a large group of people find to be acceptable. It's astonishing really.
So anyways, the point of that misguided sentence was "no really, we should :p"
I'm sure the female mods wouldn't have a problem with that being an established policy either :p
.....Nice save. :P
I'm an equal-opportunity suspender, anyway.
@TimStone just wait till I get going!! ... Where was I?
Oh that's right. Trying to figure out if IQI is a valid play ...
I can't believe how often I comment on a meta post and then come here and discover it's being discussed
10:04 PM
@MichaelMrozek RE: comment, I suppose that's true too.
@MichaelMrozek that's why we just stay here ...
That was coincidental.
Where's a good place to rant about people not reading things properly?
@ChrisF I think you're there :-)
@ChrisF probably on SO as a question :p
10:06 PM
@ChrisF I rant about things in here constantly. I don't know if that makes it a good place
@ChrisF Who would read it?
Especially not after that whole voting ring incident, but..
@ChrisF no seriously, this is the place to do it. We rant about everything. Girlfriends. Bosses. Jobs. Wives. Drives home. Food. Other ranters.
We rant about needing a place to rant even.
I need to get something off my chest, but don't want to appear like I'm whining about it.
is seeing double
10:07 PM
This is true
let me help you: </whine> Ok begin
It's Stack Exchange related
But remember that you only have like 500 characters to fit your rant into
I answered a question on Programmer's earlier today and gave something Microsoft have done as a good example. I was expecting to be taken to task for it, but not in the way that I was
@ChrisF Link?
10:10 PM
Woah, two back-to-back collisions. We even almost had a three or four-way there. :o </interjection> Please, continue.
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException If you insist:
A: Aggressive Auto-Updating?

ChrisFOdd as it may seem the Windows Update dialog has the right options (ignoring the potential for problems caused by the default): Automatic (updates downloaded and installed without user intervention [Microsoft's words not mine]). Though this is badly worded and misleading as the system will rebo...

is that it?
@ChrisF Thanks, helps with context
That's the one.
Sorry guys, I'm lazy I guess =b
10:11 PM
The power of the mob ... it's why LeoLaporte is so good ;)
Which part of this is problematic?
The question was about auto update options but I get chewed out because Windows Update is crap - not because the choices are bad, but because the consequences are potentially bad.
I'm waiting on the rant part
@MichaelMrozek See the comments and my edits to make it clear that I'm talking about the UI not what the program actually does.
BTW - I'm not expecting any up-votes from you lot. I'll be disappointed if I get any ;)
undoes his upvote
@ChrisF I saw that immedietly
10:13 PM
I think that you both have a good ground to stand on. He's saying it's not a good example because of the poor wording, and you're saying that they at least give you all the options (even if they do try to screw you over)
waits for @Michael Mrozek to give directions on how to vote
You're talking control over the process, and the first comment lambasts the first choice of process
(Seeing as we're the downvoting ring)
@ChrisF I find that people have difficulty actually breaking apart their notions of things as a whole when aspects of those things are used as an example. I'm not sure if they just don't take the time to read , or what the issue is. :/
@Pekka - Sounds like a voting ring...
10:14 PM
@Moshe any word on how we're going to vote yet?
I didn't actually undo my upvote :-) I upvoted it because it was a good answer, not because @ChrisF tole me to / not to. I vote based on merit :-)
@TimStone This is very true
I was gonna say, I thought it was a good answer I was gonna chip in my $.05
@ChrisF Well, we are an incredibly powerful voting syndicate...
^^ This is a joke. Anyone trying to quote it out of it's joke-y context is a moron.
Regardless, I don't think that JBRWilkinson was attacking you, and I don't read the post that he was, and I'm just one guy, BUT
10:15 PM
Sorry, I felt the need for a disclaiming for some reason.
@TimStone lmao, waiting on hotlinkers are you?
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException tell me about it
I got way more done in the last 45 minutes with pen & paper than I did all day with my laptop.
@drachenstern I was going to say, I'd be flagged for being offensive...
@TimStone Oh I know the reason, and I'll link to this one shortly when I pull it up, but first!
@mootinator congrats
@mootinator And probably more than I got done all day period.
10:16 PM
@ChrisF, I think that some of these people (incorrectly) get caught up in the question itself, and don't read / consider / understand the (your) answers
@drachenstern OK - maybe I over-reacted a bit, but it was what @TimStone said about people not being able to look at the UI without their view being coloured by the whole thing.
Let's overlook that part, though.
Anyway I feel better now. Thanks for listening.
@ChrisF so I feel like this is the problem with the internet in general. People confuse topics with other individuals. SE is going to be more problematic than many sites.
But it's still going to happen, and I just try to expect it as best I can.
Anyways, all things considered, remember, this is the place for bitching about shit that pisses you off, and any other words Carlin would have you say ;)
10:18 PM
Example, The question says "What do you guys think is best practice regarding auto-updating?". So JBRWilkinson gets hooked on the actual practice Microsoft uses, even if you're talking about the UI having choices. It wasn't the fault of your answer @ChrisF, I think it's just people not taking enough time / opening their minds
Just my $0.02. You should have enough for a candy bar now @Chris
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException Thanks
@drachenstern YES. Well said. (insert obligitory xkcd link here)
@ChrisF Glad you feel better. These guys are great for that :-)
Well, and that's the real thing. It's rather unfortunate, because clearly the commenter brought up a good point for the OP (be clear in your intentions), but it really was unrelated to what @ChrisF was trying to bring to the table with the example, and it's naturally frustrating to have to respond to counterpoints which really aren't counterpoints at all, just side commentary.
@TimStone And had the commenter taken more time, he could have been more clear. As is, it's a shame because it looks like he's being critical of the answer, and others may not see his point in the same way he didn't see Chris' point...
10:22 PM
Communicating via text-only can be difficult sometimes :-)
nods vigorously
2 days ago, by Michael Petrotta
The troll is being sexually assaulted by captchas.
That might be why you felt the need to disclaim it
HAHAHA, I saw that
Q: How do I deal with potential downvoting rings?

gravityboyThis guy went to every one of my questions and wrote something stupid about the null vote idea. Vote up, down and null (zero)? Is there anything I can do about it? He also hangs out in the chat room and the users there all get together and vote each other up (they have multiple fake accounts al...

I probably don't want to read the backlog to find out why that post came up again
@MichaelMrozek I'm not really sure myself, it just suddenly appeared
10:28 PM
12 mins ago, by Tim Stone
Sorry, I felt the need for a disclaiming for some reason.
@MichaelMrozek Oh wait, yes, I see now.
Yeah, I'm a little concerned that I didn't realize that said "disclaiming" instead of "disclaimer".
And that because of this:
@TimStone lack of sleep?
13 mins ago, by Tim Stone
@ChrisF Well, we are an incredibly powerful voting syndicate...
10:29 PM
@drachenstern Oh, the drama! ;)
@TimStone but "a disclaiming" is valid there
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException Perhaps...I don't feel particularly tired right now, but.
@GeorgeMarian yes, we've been there several times ;)
Disclaiming can be used as a noun?
"A disclaiming" can be, yes
10:29 PM
If you're ok with using it incorrectly, then sure!
"A disclaiming was made by the mayor"
Let's ask English.SE!
Q: Can "a disclaiming" be used as a noun?

drachensternThe question came up if this is proper English: Sorry, I felt the need for a disclaiming for some reason. And I think it is but some others say it isn't. I gave a further example to back up my case that that is acceptable with: "A disclaiming was made by the mayor" And thus was born t...

@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException and I still say it can be used as a noun, in that usage pattern.
It sounds like Microspeak.
who upvoted me? :p
10:35 PM
@drachenstern I did! I'm debating on answering
I figured ;)
what a devious voting ring we are!
I upvoted because I think it's a good question!
I can't find any evidence of it being acceptable as a noun. :P
I only go on my own long-history from reading
> My proof that this is acceptable is the countless number of books I've read where I've forgotten more than I remember that I've read, but I'm certain I've seen a literary device such as this used before and not heard a great deal of complaining on it.
Also, I'm officially quite not a 101 on that site anymore :D
A going away for the night was done by Pekka
10:41 PM
I think that's valid, yes.
waves ;)
While many stayings in chat were done by its other members
I think it's the to-be that comes in the middle that makes it valid.
A waving was done by Tim Stone.
A waving back was done by Pekka, before he vanished into the night.
10:42 PM
OK, that was my first answer on English. may it be downvoted into oblivion!
I wonder how long it will take for an E.SE regular to come by and answer it. I'm sure there aren't 600k uniques there per day on average ... :(
"disclaiming" is a gerund, not a verb.
A move was awaiting @TimStone ;)
> Oy You! You're part of the discussing party in the first place. ... Well, at least you got to get in your dissenting opinion. Now let's see who else responds. – drachenstern 56 secs ago
Oh, I know, I just don't have a good move at the moment. :P
10:45 PM
In linguistics, gerund (abbreviated ) is a term used to refer to various non-finite verb forms in various languages: * As applied to English, it refers to the usage of a verb (in its -ing form) and as a noun (for example, the verb "learning" in the sentence "Learning is an easy process for some"). This is also the term's use as applied to Latin; see Latin conjugation. * As applied to Spanish, it refers to an adverbial participle (a verbal adverb), called in Spanish the gerundio. * As applied to French, it refers either to the adverbial participle—also called the gerundive—or to the presen...
I don't really either, but I have this Q itching to be used
Thank you Michael. Go post over there for the upvote and the answer :p
Gerunds are used as nouns.
@MichaelMyers Thanks! I just edited
@drachenstern That's not the answer, it's just a nitpick. As it turns out, I'm much better at nitpicks.
@MichaelMyers Even in this case?
10:46 PM
> In English, the gerund is identical in form to the present participle (ending in -ing) and can behave as a verb within a clause, but the clause as a whole (sometimes consisting of only one word, the gerund itself) acts as a noun within the larger sentence.
@MichaelMyers but it is the answer, as given by my quote
Ok. I've got it @drachenstern. Please wait while I edit again...
I'm not sure that the usage in question actually qualifies as a gerund. :P
@drachenstern Oh. Golly. I need to stop staring at screens all day; it fries my poor brain.
@TimStone It does. I'm sure of it.
@MichaelMyers ;)
I'm not. ;)
10:48 PM
@TimStone well if the sockpuppet would wait, I'm sure a 5k+ E.SE would come along and answer it
@drachenstern errr, there's exactly 7 5k+ers on that site, so maybe merely someone 1k+
And one of those 5k-ers has left.
@MichaelMyers seriously? whom if I may ask?
sorry, still editing
That sucks when an infant site loses a top person
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException are you editing WP too by chance? :p
@drachenstern Look down the list and take a wild guess. ;)
10:50 PM
That would be it
Wow read the question he linked to as his "there's no saving this site" ...
Q: Is "might could" a correct construction?

Doug T.I have a friend from the southern US who uses the phrase "might could" quite often. He'll say, for example: I might could do that this weekend. When I first heard him say this it made me do a double take. I wasn't sure, though, if its incorrect or correct but just not idiomatic outside the...

The user left over the answers to a single question? :/
OK, edited @drachenstern
Sorry but there is not much hope for this site:

10:51 PM
No, there was a long period of general abrasiveness first.
Ah, I see.
But I don't want to get into it in a public chat room. We already discussed it at some length in the mod room and via email.
And I certainly wouldn't ask you to, was just surprised by the specificity of the reference. :)
concur with :429573 on :429572 in every regard. Damnit man let me read before you respond to comments :p
Because, you know, you can tell what I'm doing ... even tho you don't have mod powers ;)
As for @TheNeedsMoarJqueryException you're still wrong, the phrase is a gerund, and it can be used as an object in a sentence.
I stand by my assertion that this was valid usage in a sentence, if a little unusual
yes sorry, I see my error
But, it's meaning is different then
10:58 PM
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException that's not my question tho
it means "the act of disclaiming" now, which doesn't make sense in the context of your sentance
But it is uncountable, thus you cannot refer to one disclaiming, one running, etc.
@MichaelMyers sure you can
Let me take this opportunity to preemptively [needs-citation] myself.
11:00 PM
Because I just made that up.
OK who upvoted this!?!
> I look silly anyway :-) – Josh 9 mins ago
@drachenstern!!!! shakes fist
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException lol
Hey, you said it, I'll just upvote it
I guess I do deserve that ;-)
It just dawned on me that there's an E.SE diamondmod here in the room with us :S
11:02 PM
And I've stumped him apparently
Diamondhood does not imply experticity.
:p I know
It only implies knowledge of the operation of the site and the mechanics of said operation.
IE: what people should and shouldn't do around town.
aka the site
You're more like to a sherrif ;)
@drachenstern can I explain to my boss that I didn't meet my deadline because I was too busy trying to prove you wrong? ;-)
Also that only two other people self-nominated and Robert wanted three. :)
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException Tell him about the question. Maybe he'll get sucked into it just like you were.
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException just give him xkcd.com/386
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException besides, I still gotta finish what I was doing here :S
11:05 PM
@MichaelMyers I've been trying to get him hooked on SE sites for months hoping it would buy me more SE time. No dices so far
wait wait wait, LordTorgamus and Moshe are both rated that highly on this site? :|
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException "Dice" is already plural. ;)
@MichaelMyers I know, I was being funny:
Q: Is it OK to say "dice and dices" instead of "die and dice"

Vincent McNabbThe only times I have ever heard the word "die" to refer to one dice are from my mother, and from my primary school English teacher. Every person I ever hear always says, "give me a dice" if they want one, and "give me the dice" if they want two. I used to "correct" people to say "die" if they me...

Hmph. I never can tell with you.
But you two realize dices is a valid word right?
11:07 PM
@MichaelMyers Rules are easy: If I'm called "Josh", take me seriously. If I'm called /The.*Exception/, don't ;-)
everyone seems to forget the action you do with a knife to an onion or celery.
@drachenstern But you can't use that as a noun...
Uh oh.
I know it's a valid word, it's just not a valid plural for die
@MichaelMyers oh lord no
@MichaelMyers what?
Just like I say "Exp" when I mean "Rep". I do know the difference, really I do ;-)
11:08 PM
@drachenstern Oh, okay then.
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException Yes. On MSO it's EXP. On all the rest of the SE family it's reps.
Yeah. It's just me being tongue-in-cheek
Everyone is secretly hoping that their online points and badges will eventually pay off in some sort of "Last Starfighter" scenario, right?
Q: Is "a disclaiming" a gerund?

drachensternEDIT see end of question for updates: The question came up if this is proper English: Sorry, I felt the need for a disclaiming for some reason. And I think it is but some others say it isn't. I gave a further example to back up my case that that is acceptable with: "A disclaiming was...

I updated the question and the title
11:11 PM
@drachenstern I'm 7 pages into google results for "a disclaiming" and so far all the uses are I.E. "a disclaiming provision", "a disclaiming heir", "a disclaiming party", etc
Now we might have a real question to answer :p
or, a) Disclaiming the...
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException hence my updated question
BAH! You edited the question to make my answer invalid!
I did no such thing. I only updated the title
I left everything intact
Also, timestamps!
are you editing again?
11:15 PM
@drachenstern And in doing so changed the whole meaning. My answer started, "No, disclaiming is a gerund", you changed the question to "Is disclaiming a gerund", making me look, well, silly
@drachenstern Yes! I had to! You forced my hand! :-)
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException you didn't have anything about gerund in the first rev you fink :p You edited that within the five minute mark to add it in after MMyers said something ;)
@drachenstern I did, yes. But I thought I clarified in the rev history
Oh, I didn't realize it was within the 5 minute mark :-)
That was my comment about making it after the five minutes
Also, you're directly conflicting with your own link. A gerund may be used as a noun or object
Anyways, I need an English teacher :p I only ever scored in the [80-90]th percentiles on my standardized tests in Lit/English classes. Unlike my Maths where I was always [99]th percentiles ;)
@drachenstern Right. Like "My disclaiming"
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException which reads just like "A disclaiming was made by the mayor" in that "a disclaiming" was at the fore, in the subject spot of the sentence
11:19 PM
@drachenstern Same. I'm pretty good with grammar, because it's like syntax. But exceptions and unusual things trip me up all the time.
Check Cerberus's response
@drachenstern Replace "disclaiming" with "act of disclaiming"
Moot what's your weigh in on this?
but then you're changing the whole thing. Now you're making disclaiming part of a prepositional phrase, and it's no longer a gerund in this case
[citation needed] because it may in fact still be a gerund
"My [act of] disclaiming that the word can be found this way appears above" vs "A [n act of] disclaiming was made by the mayor"
I don't know. I'm now confused :-)
11:22 PM
well Kosmonaut has ventured in, I think this is where I lick my wounds and say I was wrong :p
I just read that. He should post that as an answer
I think so too
I'm going to give him time tho
> "Disclaiming" is definitely not countable, so putting "a" in front of it doesn't work either.
I saw that :p
OK. As much fun as this has been (and it was) I now urgently need to get back to work because my boss just asked why I've been spending so long on this deadline =o
11:27 PM
@drachenstern Thanks for the intellectual and entertaining discussion :-)
shoo mister, don't get in trouble. We'll have mischief time later ;)
There is an inverse relationship between the amount of Flash on a website and my trust level in the company.
RT @aderixon: @Nonapeptide That's unfair, Oracle Support site uses Flash and ... Oh.
I couldn't resist @drachenstern, I just wanted to see if any new answers were posted
so i went to English.SE, and right there on the homepage...
posted where?
Q: Origin of the word "cum"

vehomzzzWhat is the origin of the word "cum"? Trying to find the roots for its prevalent usage, especially in North America.

11:41 PM
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException GO WORK SIR
It'll be here when you get home tonight
Ok. had my good laugh for the day, back to work now XD
I'm just going to assume that's as in magna cum laude and not actually click through.
No, it's for what you think. And the poster is crass in his comments. It's not really worth dealing with, as a mod or a casual reader.
However the word apparently dates back further in English usage than I had presupposed
I can see that I need to setup a page hashing control for my UpdatePanels for forward/back navigation. I thought "that'll be a nice feature to put in" but now I can see it's just plain necessary :(
@MichaelMyers No, it's not. I couldn't decide whether to upvote or flag as offensive, LOL
Let's see just how many "update panels" there are in the suite of apps I'm working with tho ...
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException lol, I'm still debating :p
11:47 PM
It has serious answers...
Find result: 128 hits in 77 files. That's a minimum of 154 pages to touch to update hashes for forward/back navigation :S ... when's the next long weekend?
Given that the user in question has 1135 rep on the site, I'm gonna go with he's not being goofy, he was just curious
Oh, no. That was vehomzzz asking that question?
@drachenstern curiously inappropriate ;-)
@MichaelMyers it was
His gravatar actually looks pretty similar to mine, shape-wise.
Apparently he has a penchant for those sorts of questions?
11:52 PM
@TimStone interesting what topics wake you up...
Do any of you young'uns remember Sasha?
Name sounds very familiar
He was the Evan Carroll of 2009. Not the same style, but he did manage to make Jeff delete his entire account.
I tend to remember the good better than the bad though, Evan being the obvious exception
@MichaelMyers say what?
Why would you delete an account?
11:54 PM
@MichaelMyers Yeah I was around then, but not on meta much if at all
I probably saw some of that transpire, can't recall right now
Search Meta for "Sasha". (Sorry to say it like that, but I've got to go pretty quick now.)
lol, seems like he's running from the mod police :p
@TheNeedsMoarJqueryException I was on SO, not so much on MSO
@MichaelMyers No problem. Catch you later!
Meta didn't exist during most of his reign.
Q: Who is sasha and why is he a big villain?

Andrei Saw this on reddit, Vim Tricks your mom never told you about -- VERY DARK CORNERS... published by Sasha: the biggest villian on StackOverflow, and now engraved in its WALL of FAME! and was curious as to what this is all about. Who is this sasha person and what makes them a big villain?

11:56 PM
Yeah, he posted that too.
Anyway, I'm out of here. I don't plan to be in the tavern tomorrow; maybe I'll be a little more productive.
@MichaelMyers Good chatting with you. take care!
I should try this "not being in the tavern" thing sometime...
Be well @MichaelMyers, g'bye.

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