Tavern on the Meta

Majid

12:19 AM

How come the vote counts are so spread on the Moderator election? 0, 6, ..., 3221

Tim Yi Jiang

1:08 AM

@Majid People can also vote down

minitech

1:19 AM

@animuson My best friend does this, it's depressing.

Tim Yi Jiang

1:34 AM

Well, IE9 is not bad. But it's still objectively worse than all of the other browsers in terms of features

Hassan

2:25 AM

@TimYiJiang I think if it doesn't support CSS3 or all of HTML (like canvas for example), then it's bad

Tim Yi Jiang

@Hassan There's no such thing as "all of HTML". HTML5 is suppose to be this ever evolving specification, so by definition no browser can support "all" of it

Hassan

@TimYiJiang Okay but CSS3?

Also <canvas> is pretty useful...

animuson

Only if you use a lot of JavaScript. For those who don't, it's useless.

Tim Yi Jiang

CSS 3 is also not a monolithic specification. There are still modules like flex box that are still undergoing drafting

That said, you'd be right to say that IE9 still lags behind the others in terms of support for certain modules which all other browsers have

Hassan

Okay, but tell that to web developers who have to write their CSS just so it'll work right in ie9 (and others of course)

Tim Yi Jiang

2:29 AM

@animuson To be honest I haven't see any "real" application of canvas outside of demos

Hassan

But I think that may only be because ie doesn't support it.

It can completely replace flash

Tim Yi Jiang

No, excanvas has been around for a long time

@Hassan Pray tell how are you going to get webcam/microphone support with canvas?

Hassan

Good question...

I guess they will eventually ... ?

Tim Stone

@TimYiJiang That's a separate API :P

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimStone It is, which is why the statement that canvas will replace Flash is too broad a generalization

Tim Stone

2:32 AM

Ah, yes.

animuson

2:52 AM

1

Funny

Proposed Q&A site for users of stack exchange who want a laugh.

Currently in definition.

Tim Yi Jiang

Blog - Stack Exchange: Stack Overflow: Where We Hate Fun

Jeff Atwood on January 04, 2010

I noticed that the Stack Overflow question Strangest language feature has been closed and reopened several times now. The text of the question is brief:

What is in your opinion the most surprising, weird, strange or really “WTF” language feature you have encountered?

I agree this is not exactly an ideal question for Stack Overflow, per the FAQ:

Avoid asking questions that are subjective, argumentative, or require extended discussion. This is not a discussion board, this is a place for questions that can be answered! …

animuson

3:12 AM

I wish I could throw downvotes at proposals.

Can we please close this? stackoverflow.com/questions/11026175/how-is-8-9-equal-to-8

jadarnel27

@Pointy, it may seem elementary, but cut the guy some slack. The OP has obviously gotten the concept wrong and needs some guidance. And who knows, the OP may be in 5th grade (isn't minitech or someone only 15?). — Jared Farrish 2 mins ago

Tim Yi Jiang

So yeah, some guy just got 60 reps for pointing out what 8/9 is. I mean, I know rep is ultimately pointless and all that, but come on, this a ridiculous

jadarnel27

I read that the first time as "@minitech is in the 5th grade" =)

@TimYiJiang Yeah, that whole question should definitely be deleted. It's not a programming question, it's confusion about how math works.

Tim Yi Jiang

3:33 AM

Can a mod edit the tag komodoedit to komodo-edit? Thanks

stackoverflow.com/suggested-edits/288112

> Posting this link violates copyright

How does that work?

animuson

Tim Yi Jiang

I mean, how do you copyright a URL?

animuson

shrugs

Tim Stone

@TimYiJiang Yeah...no.

Tim Yi Jiang

This doesn't make sense. The code is on Google Code. That means it's F/OSS. Assuming the suggested editor is the author of the code, which appears to be the case

Why is the code even on Google Code?

2

A: What is the Metaphone 3 Algorithm?

I thought it is wrong to have the general community be denied an algorithm (not code) I am selling source, so the algorithm is not hidden. I am asking $40.00 for a copy of the source code, and asking other people who are charging for their software or services that use Metaphone 3 to pay me a li...

This feels like the OpenSTV charging for their software even though it's open source and available from repos

It doesn't make sense at all

Tim Stone

3:47 AM

@TimYiJiang He gave the code to that Google project under a BSD license

animuson

How is that even an answer?

Tim Yi Jiang

    * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
    * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above
copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer
in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the
distribution.
    * Neither the name of Google Inc. nor the names of its
contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from
this software without specific prior written permission.

Doesn't say why you can't link to that Google Code page

Tim Stone

@animuson The revision history of that post is even more interesting.

Moshe

Sitting next to the director of Xcode at Dempsey and the Breakpoints. I had one word for him:

“NSStream”

:-D

jadarnel27

4:11 AM

@TimStone "clarify and fix spelling - bolt clock, please let stand" - Hahaha

That is a great revision note.

Tim Yi Jiang

@jadarnel27 Mods be power tripping! But seriously, why can't he just flag for a mod to delete the post if he wants it gone?

Tim Stone

4:22 AM

Ah...need to do the digests.

Suppose I'll take a quick break now and then come back to do that.

I also think I still have one Twix bar in the fridge at work for tomorrow...excellent.

Tim Yi Jiang

I'm curious, at what size does a DB need to be before defining unique indices will actually make a difference in terms of performance?

Tim Stone

I think that's an overly broad question. :P

animuson

The Tim has spoken.

Tim Yi Jiang

4:38 AM

@TimStone Can you give an overly broad answer? :P

Table size. Just some rough figures on how many rows it would take before searching through indices would actually be faster than searching through the whole table

Tim Stone

Eh...

Tim Yi Jiang

No? Ah well, I suppose there's too many factors concerning this

Tim Stone

Pretty much, yeah. :P

I mean, indices are usually B-Trees, so the lookup performance is O(log n), where a table scan is O(n), but.

Adding unique indices where it "just makes sense" is sane, then adding anything additional you should do based on the explain plan of a slow query.

Tim Yi Jiang

So primary keys, and wherever EXPLAIN says there's too many rows been searched?

Tim Stone

Well, when it comes to EXPLAIN it's more about reducing costly operations...so typically this translates into "too many rows searched through", but it can be a bit more complicated.

Also depends on the database you're using too, to determine what operations have to occur for a particular query to execute.

Also, my meta reps is 20,666 at the moment, mwuahaha.

Tim Yi Jiang

4:53 AM

@TimStone Wait till Jon Skeet hit 666 666

Tim Stone

That's game over man

Tim Yi Jiang

I think SO may wish to wipe Jon's rep before it hits that

Or else...

Tim Stone

Heh :P

animuson

6:00 AM

0

Q: Pirates Ho source code

i am learning sdl library follow the page http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/cn/linux/game/sdl/pirates-2/index.html finally the author give the link http://pirates.devolution.com/samples/snapshot-030500.tar.gz to download the source code, but i can not access the website, could anyone tell me whe...

sdl

What exactly do you close this as? Haha It's just...

Lix

6:45 AM

gmorning @dav :)

David

@Lix Something like that :) It's 14:47 here.

Lix

not 02:47? :S Is google lying to me again?! :P

You're in Boston no?

David

Not "again" but "still." Normally I would be in Boston (or in the vicinity thereof). However, I'm on a 5-week business trip to the Philippines.

Lix

Ahh well don't blame me then :P hehe...

David

7:03 AM

I'm definitely enjoying it here, though. So far it's been mostly work, but I just had a conversation with an HR rep here who's helping me find some sight-seeing to do in the area.

Perhaps my team and I will go see the nearby volcano (dormant, unfortunately) this weekend. Ultimately I may fly over to Hong Kong some weekend as well.

I can't afford any of it, but I'll forever regret not doing any of it if I miss the opportunity.

animuson

7:25 AM

opens a bag of Flamin' Hot Cheetos, pours them on a plate, and places it on a table in the middle of the room, then walks away

Tim ManishEarth

@animuson eats them

Lix

(* sneaky om-nom-nom & innocent face *)

Tim ManishEarth

7:43 AM

misses superping ability on MSO

@Pekka

^^not worky worky

@@138112

@@138112@meta.stackoverflow.com

animuson

o.o

balpha

@TimManishEarth that works fine, he's been here recently

Tim ManishEarth

@balpha Hmm, no autocomplete though

I always though no autocomplete==no ping

@animuson Those were superpings

balpha

@TimManishEarth Those two are unrelated. I'd like to make that true at some point, but it currently isn't.

Tim ManishEarth

Which work (for me) on chat.SE (mod powers), but not here, since I don't have chat mod powers on chat.MSO

@balpha Aah

Thanks :)

@Pekka here's the script you asked for stackapps.com/questions/3477/transmogrify-offtopic-mso-posts

3

animuson

7:47 AM

Dry roasted peanuts!

Tim ManishEarth

@animuson Basically, a superping lets you summon a user to any chat room, regardless of when they joined

If it had worked, it would have replaced itself with @pekka (for some reason, it's lowercase)

@animuson Salted!

animuson

Aren't all peanuts salted unless they say specifically "unsalted" on them?

Tim ManishEarth

@animuson Hmm, right

Actually no

Not Planters, anyway.

Peeeeeeeanuuuuts

animuson

I can't eat too many at once. They give me a Pepto Bismol symptom...

Psh, rep cap.

Tim ManishEarth

serial upvotes @animuson so he can weep about the lost rep

animuson

7:58 AM

Hahaha, do it! I want a reversal on my reputation that doesn't have a value with it. xD

Does it even show up if your reputation didn't change from them?

Tim ManishEarth

In the rep tab (can get rolled up, though), and the mobile site, yes

animuson

I meant the serial vote reversal statement

Tim ManishEarth

Hmm, dunno

animuson

Even more frustrating, it capped me like literally right below the 15,000 cut-off...

C'mon... C'mon...

Tim ManishEarth

@animuson Make tagwiki edits

animuson

8:01 AM

Those are still rep-capped though.

Tim ManishEarth

Nope

Only votes

animuson

Unless they changed it recently, reputation from suggested edits is included in the rep cap o.o

Tim ManishEarth

I saw it somewhere that it's only votes

Hmm, meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/81290/…

animuson

:)

It also says that in the reputation FAQ. You can earn a maximum of +200 reputation from upvotes and suggested edits in any given day.

Tim ManishEarth

Aah

Accept answers

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/121863/… .

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/131138/… .

animuson

8:05 AM

That question isn't answered yet though... It still needs action.

Tim ManishEarth

Aah

Anyway, I doubt you want to try out your "protect questions" priv right now

animuson

No, just being at 15k :D

Tim ManishEarth

Aah

is still far from 15k

animuson

:o

Omgosh!!! I just got a slidey notification again!!! @Shog9

Tim ManishEarth

Me too

I got an "1 new answer has been posted" one recently

animuson

8:29 AM

@TimManishEarth: Lol, now it's 14,997. Even more unbearable!!!

Woo :D Congrats, you've gained the privilege – protect questions learn more

Ok, I can peacefully go to sleep now... Good night!

Tim ManishEarth

@animuson Good night :)

Pekka

9:40 AM

@TimManishEarth That is just brilliant

And the choice of name is epic.

Thanks very much!

I will be using it and giving feedback.

David

Awesome, I didn't realize there was a Calvin & Hobbes meme on MSO. But I definitely approve :)

awoodland

10:18 AM

is it possible for non US citizens to take action against US companies using CAN-SPAM?

Tim ManishEarth

10:35 AM

@Pekka It "transmogrifies" eyesores into fun posts :)

Tim Yi Jiang

@TimManishEarth Does it check if the question already has one of these comic posts?

Tim ManishEarth

@TimYiJiang Nope

Should it?

Tim Yi Jiang

Probably, if you're not the only person using this

Tim ManishEarth

I guess that's up to you to check. After all, the answer box is at the bottom, and you have to click the submit button to finish it (the script does not do any irreversible stuf for you)

Tim Yi Jiang

Ah, okay

Tim Stone

10:40 AM

@TimStone That wasn't quick. Fail. |:

Tim Stone

12:17 PM

Aww, I can't subvert the rate limiter by posting my own answer? -1

Not leaving blatant holes in the system, tsk.

I wonder who I have to bribe to add an if (!tim) to all those checks... starts baking bribery cookies

Tim Stone

12:57 PM

Everyone be sure to go wish Sam the best on his new adventures. :)

12

jadarnel27

:o

Tim Stone

Aye

jadarnel27

1:12 PM

Very nice blog post. I'm sure he will be missed greatly on the team.

Exciting news, I found a canonical question that can be used to close all of the "What does <%# ... %> mean in ASP.NET?" questions.

Tim Stone

\o/

prepares the close-hammer

jadarnel27

You could always swing that hammer at the question that inspired me to look for a canonical answer =)

Tim Stone

ASP.NET tags are trolls anyway, Razor 4 life

And now to go to work.

jadarnel27

Hahaha, HEY! That's my tag you're talking about there.

Shawn Chin

1:53 PM

Is there anything in place stopping someone from sniping less popular bounty questions? i.e. post a meh answer at the 11th hour + sock puppet upvotes just before the auto-award kicks in.

Tim Yi Jiang

The answer is always: The community should be able to spot it

jadarnel27

I wonder what you could do to protect against that? Perhaps auto-flag 11th hour answers to bounty questions if the answer meets some shady criteria?

Tim Yi Jiang

Too much work. This exploit is pretty hypothetical in my opinion

jadarnel27

Agreed, I was just thinking out loud.

"Out loud" being, um, relative.

Shawn Chin

I suppose the bounty owner will throw a fit if that happens, but not so sure if the community in general will realise what has happened especially if the question is somewhat obscure

jadarnel27

2:01 PM

@ShawnChin Right, I think the bounty owner part is key. They would almost certainly flag the answer or post on Meta about it.

Shawn Chin

I agree that this won't happen often enough to warrant a fix, but I suspect it is possible given the right circumstances.

Tim Yi Jiang

2:49 PM

-6

Q: How do i remove the timeline?

How do i remove the timeline? I accidently clicked on to get it and I REALLY don't want it. I hate the timeline that i would delet my account to just not have it. I do not wish to delet my account because Im in the military and I keep it as connections.

remove facebook-page

Kill this crap

Shog9

@animuson what?! Where? Stop breaking stuff!

jadarnel27

I had no idea that community auto-protected questions. Neat.

Tim Yi Jiang

@jadarnel27 Two deleted posts by mods = auto protect

Surprised you didn't notice. If you look at all the high view count posts on SO almost all of them have this

jadarnel27

@TimYiJiang Me too. I'm crazy as hell.

@TimYiJiang The faq post says three (I don't know which is correct).

Tim Yi Jiang

@jadarnel27 Huh. I always thought it was two, from observation. But maybe they raised the number

It's not retroactively applied, mind. Only for new deletions

jadarnel27

3:12 PM

Oh, right. That makes sense.

Shawn Chin

@TimYiJiang The post? Or timeline?

Tim Yi Jiang

@ShawnChin Both, if you will

Pekka

3:33 PM

@TimYiJiang But I have same problem plz E-Mail me solution

Popular Demand

@Pekka Don't you mean "plz post asnwer on my ugly, non-user-friendly, stupid new design fb wall"?

Pekka

@PopularDemand no coz that would make me look like I'm not the FB Guru I say I am. I want to change the way it looks like plz send E-Mail or message

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

Hi all

What do I order for lunch today? ...

Pekka

Pizza Pizza Pizza

With some weird topping

A topping you've never had before.

Make it happen, now

Tim Yi Jiang

@Pekka They have curry chicken pizza here

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

3:38 PM

Lol i need to get it on Seamless. My office pays ^_^

Pekka

@TimYiJiang coool

jadarnel27

@TimYiJiang That sounds delightful.

Pekka

I decided to go off vegetables for a change and ate a proper traditional local meal

It was delicious.

and in a real Restaurant, no less.

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM A

Ahhh ha

Sushi it is ^_^

Tim Stone

4:01 PM

@Pekka It looks delicious. You should have invited me, it's lunch time!

Pekka

4:27 PM

@TimStone next time!

Tim Stone

Excellent

jadarnel27

4:52 PM

Got past the MVC wall I was running into yesterday. Progress.

0A0D

5:07 PM

Is Google supposed to be able to see deleted questions?

Shawn Chin

@0A0D Don't thinks so. You found a case where it does?

11

Q: Can Google (search engines) "see" deleted posts or comments?

I have a vanity search set up on Google. Every once in awhile a post or a comment comes through that just seems ambiguous, outdated, or whatever... so I follow the link and I clean it up or delete it. I can see my deleted posts. +10K users/moderators can see deleted posts. Deleted posts are list...

support google delete search-engine

0A0D

@ShawnChin Yes, I did a google search for std::stream underflow and it came back with this question as the top link: stackoverflow.com/questions/11018787/…

Maybe the index is old.

Shawn Chin

That question was deleted an hour ago, so won't be surprised if google is not yet aware of it

And note that the site preview is not available from the search results. That kinda confirms that deleted answers are not visible to Google.

That result will probably disappear the next time GoogleBot drops by

Moshe

5:33 PM

@Pekka - Hey! There's a ton of Germans here.

Pekka

6:08 PM

@Moshe Hey! I'm not that fat.

jk

What do you mean?

I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Shog9

the Germans, man! They're EVERYWHERE!

jadarnel27

@Pekka He's at an Apple developer conference thingamajig.

Apparently, there are German people there and he wanted you to know about it =)

Pekka

@jadarnel27 ahhh, I get it! Thanks.

@Moshe cool.

I wonder whether that is any indication of future developments?

iPad 4: Das Tablett

jadarnel27

@Pekka I live to observe. No problem.

animuson

6:38 PM

Gahh, a recruiter used "gimme" in their word choice o.o

Tim Stone

Gimme an "N"! Gimme an "O"! What does that spell‽

animuson

thinks how he can make this into a Tim Stone joke

jadarnel27

@TimStone What is that weird question-mark-type character at the end there?

Tim Stone

Interrobang

The interrobang, also known as the interabang, (), ‽ (often represented by ?! or !?), is a nonstandard punctuation mark used in various written languages and intended to combine the functions of the question mark (also called the “interrogative point”) and the exclamation mark or exclamation point (known in printers’ jargon as the “bang”). . The glyph is a superimposition of these two marks. It is present in Unicode as . Application A sentence ending with an interrobang asks a question in an excited manner, expresses excitement or disbelief in the form of a question, or asks a rhetoric...

Popular Demand

You don't know about the interrobang‽ Get out.

jadarnel27

6:46 PM

I thought there was some kind of debris on my monitor for a second.

Oh. Chumptastic (of me).

Tim Stone

@PopularDemand Kids* these days. *For definitions of kids that include people older than me, but not me.

3

animuson

Someone lick my envelope.

jadarnel27

^ That's what she said.

Tim Stone

Since no one sends actual mail these days, I'm not sure if you're having a postal problem or if that's some sort of euphemism.

animuson

cards

My parents are going on vacation for a week so I have to give my dad his Father's Day and Birthday cards today

Tim Stone

6:49 PM

...Oh right.

Hmm.

animuson

I was just going to print them, but my printer is still doing that no-printing-cyan-and-magenta thing

jadarnel27

7:02 PM

I feel like there have been more Meta posts than usual about flagging / "incorrectly declined" flags this week.

I thought link only answers were blocked now?

-1

A: asynchronous mvc .net: how to return a view from async method

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee728598.aspx

Popular Demand

Hm, for a second I smelled sock because that name was familiar, but apparently there are dozens of users with that first name.

Tim Stone

7:23 PM

THAT IS MY FAVORITE PART. — Jarrod Dixon 23 mins ago

Oh Jarrod

jadarnel27

Hahaha

animuson

Close? stackoverflow.com/questions/10619261/…

jadarnel27

Does anyone know if English random♦'s first language?

Sometimes I wonder =)

animuson

Says Mr. I-forgot-a-verb up there.

jadarnel27

HAHAHA

Whoops. Too late to edit, as well =)

animuson

8:06 PM

I wonder how much reputation I've lost from the cap today...

228, hmm :P

Grace Note

8:24 PM

@TimStone!

Tim Stone

Yes!

jadarnel27

Shhh. No shouting.

This is a library.

Grace Note

@TimStone THC digest for SO!

Tim Stone

Yes! >_<

in Town Hall Discussion, 7 hours ago, by Tim Stone

Alright, I will be dreadfully late for work if I try to do the SO digest now...so I will take care of that later today.

Grace Note

RPG can dilly a tiny bit but SO is kinda big huge important to get out

Tim Stone

8:31 PM

RPG is already done

Grace Note

That's convenient

Tim Stone

I foolishly fell asleep and had to go into the office today. >:/

Grace Note

I see, I see

Well, now is later than 7 hours ago

Tim Stone

It is, it is...

I suppose I can try to do it at the office, but uh...

I know, I'm the weak link in the chain again. ._.;

Grace Note

If you can't do it now, I can run it myself

If you're in your office, you probably have paid things to be doing

Tim Stone

8:38 PM

Nah, I'll give it a go. I finished what I planned on finishing today anyway.

Grace Note

Well, if you get too busy, just let me know and I'll finish up, mmkay? ♪

Tim Stone

Sure thing. Again, sorry about that. I try not to let that happen with the digests >_<

Grace Note

It's okay.

animuson

0

Q: Have Stack Overflow's tag wiki excerpts veered away from their purpose?

Take this screen shot of the first page of tags on Stack Overflow: Take, for example, the database tag there. The excerpt simply states: [A database is] an organized collection of data. Or even the [tag:linux tag, which states: [Linux is] a Free (libre), Open Source, Unix-like operat...

discussion stackoverflow tags tag-wiki-excerpt

Now that I think about it, I should have waited until midnight to post that. xP

jadarnel27

Why does the excerpt for Linux say "(libre)" in it?

animuson

8:50 PM

I have no idea...

jadarnel27

I think it means "free" in Spanish, if I remember correctly. Not that that explains it's presence there =)

animuson

I thought it meant book o.o What the heck was I thinking of?

Oh, ya. liber means book in Latin

jadarnel27

Haha. Actually "libro" means book in Spanish, so you were still close =)

animuson

Heh, I studied Latin for 4 years, so a lot of the words are still floating in the back of my mind.

jadarnel27

Each tag-wiki-excerpt has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the potential tag choosers.

@animuson Exactly how I feel about Spanish =)

David Manheim

9:39 PM

Is there a way to send a message to a fellow user? I know this was rejected at one point - I'm just not sure what to do. It seems silly, but at least we could be able to comment on a user's profile, so they can see the message when they next log in.

Grace Note

If it is within regards to something on the site, post a comment on the relevant post of theirs

David Manheim

If it is about a request?

Grace Note

If it isn't about anything with regards to material on the site, then check their profile for any contact details they've made public. If there isn't, then there's no means.

Tim Stone

@GraceNote Almost done!

Tim Stone

9:57 PM

I'm afraid we're going to have to disqualify @Lix though, his Facebook photo does not play well with the template.. ;)

Tim Stone

10:17 PM

Digestion complete.

animuson

Are you sure there was no regurgitation?

Tim Stone

Let's hope not.

Anonymous

@jadarnel27 The word "free" in English is seen as ambiguous, and maps to multiple words in some languages. Some languages, including French, use gratis for the sense of "free of cost" and libre for the sense of "free of restrictions". "Free software" folks sometimes borrow this word to be clear (e.g. LibreOffice).

Anonymous

Gratis versus libre

Gratis versus libre is the distinction between two meanings of the English adjective "free"; namely, "for zero price" (gratis) and "with little or no restriction" (libre). The ambiguity of "free" can cause issues where the distinction is important, as it often is in dealing with laws concerning the use of information, such as copyright and patents. The terms are largely used to categorise intellectual property, particularly computer programs, according to the licenses and legal restrictions that cover them, in the free software and open source communities, as well as the broader free c...

Grace Note

10:34 PM

@TimStone Thank you much, Tim

Tim Stone

Aye. I promise not to wait so long after the next one to avoid unfortunate lack-of-energy scenarios. :P

This was surprisingly speedy, however.

The candidates did an excellent job at following the instructions, so a tip of the hat to all.

jadarnel27

11:15 PM

@JeremyBanks Oh, wow. I did not know about that ambiguity. That's very enlightening, thanks!

Congrats on getting the digest done, @TimStone =)

animuson