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1:00 PM
:( I always miss the good bargains :(
so tempted to make inappropriate comments right now ....
Bring 'em on. I grew up with two brothers, I doubt you'll shock me XD
@Shadow interpolating info... making up details.... falsifying results
@Shadow Did @Pëkka stole some of the old SE branded bags from the swag vaults when he joined the rebel forces and now he is selling those on the black market?
Julia Silge on October 28, 2019

Welcome to this month’s installment of Stack Overflow research updates! I code for work and for fun, on weekdays here at Stack Overflow as a data scientist and on the weekends as an open source maintainer. This is not uncommon. About 80% of respondents on our annual Developer Survey say they code as a hobby, and on my team, it turns out that every single one of us does a bit of coding for fun, whether that’s live coding on Twitch, connecting C# to R Markdown because you can, or learning game development from scratch. …

@SPArchaeologist-様 indeed
@SPArchaeologist-様 why black? They're legit rebellion items. ;)
1:28 PM
It needs several days until your question gets deleted due to inactivity, so that shouldn't be a great concern. A bounty for example would prevent that. And as far as I'm aware you can't find your own deleted question when they were deleted more than 30(??) days ago. You would need a mod for that. — Tom 30 mins ago
do questions get deleted due to inactivity on SO?
or did the commenter misread and/or mistyped
@user1306322 sure, for years, maybe even from day 1. What about it?
It only happens when score is 0 or negative, plus several more conditions.
what constitutes "inactivity"?
Q: How does deleting work? What can cause a post to be deleted, and what does that actually mean? What are the criteria for deletion?

jjnguyWhat circumstances can cause a question or answer to be deleted, and what does that actually mean? How can a post be deleted? When can't I delete my own post? Can I still see my post even after it's deleted? Can I see a list of my deleted posts? How can I undelete one of my posts? What does de...

See the "by the system" section
A: Enable automatic deletion of old, unanswered, zero-score questions after a year?

Jeff AtwoodAbandoned, unanswered questions can be a nuisance for readers when they appear in search results. While every question deserves a chance to be answered, at some point the annoyance to those searching for a solution outweighs the increasingly small chance that an answer will be provided. For this...

@Shadow seems like the case described here means the question would have to have a score of -1 or lower and no answers
1:34 PM
@user1306322 score of 0 is enough for year old question.
I thought the commenter meant that the question will get deleted at score 0 with one downvoted answer after 30 days, which got me worried for a minute
hmm... I remember asking a few questions that got deleted after a year like that, after I got the tumbleweed badges for them (back when I checked my notifications for tumbleweed badges)
the ceiling
ah, see, I specifically used "watup" as a colloquial greeting, which is distinct from "what's up" which can be confused for asking "can you please tell me what is above us" :p
1:42 PM
I'm fine
good to know
we have a colloquially similar phrase in germany which can be translated to "what goes" and usual punny answers abound
sounds interesting
(something something refrigerator on low voltage)
I don't even know why "a running refrigerator" is supposed to be funny in English
Because the idea of a refrigerator with tiny legs running away in panic is quite funny? :P
There's a similar thing in Dutch, a buffet can be referred to as a 'walking buffet' (meaning you have to walk to it and get your own food)... the standard reply to people having/giving one is usually 'that's going to be a tiring evening chasing food...'
1:46 PM
usually the witty response to "what goes" is "everything with legs except tables and chairs"
no, I mean, why refrigerator specifically
Oh, probably for the same food reason? It's funny because it means you'll have to chase your food like some caveman :P
aren't there any other household appliances which "run" as in "powered on and performing their main function?"
@Tinkeringbell oh that is... not something I would expect a modern human to think of
and I just remembered: a nose can be running
what's it running from?
or is it running for president?
I really hope 'The Nose' will not start running for president.
He's in jail anyway.
1:51 PM
Hopefully for a looong time!
that'd only happen when the Rock whistles on a rock (multilingual joke, I understand if you don't)
somebody could ask about it on one of the language sites but it's not going to be a worthwhile endeavour, I promise :p
Hmmm. Hopefully I didn't go too much into detail about the TL... I'm not entirely sure what the boundaries for what's confidential and what's not are anymore.
I think generalities are fine
button @rene @Bart @Sonic
already voted
2:01 PM
The pizza discussion inside the TL is always interesting though...
i'm just wondering are things cooling down on meta
I think so
haven't seen as many hotheaded comments lately, people are just discussing things now
@Gwideon expect heating up soon
2:03 PM
@Shadow Why?
Oh wow. Yeah SE could reasonably be sued for Libel
@Shadow I don't think it will be something the public can discuss, like what is there to talk about for a long time and in detail?
and the legal process itself is usually a very slow thing, so it could take months or years
@user1306322 that works for SE, yes. But people who are angry at SE will just be more angry.
2:06 PM
angry comments are usually subject for removal as they are genuinely not useful and don't pursue a discussion
@Shadow then let them be? not our (or at least, my) business anyway
as for angry discussion comments, again, I don't know what there is to discuss
like there's a lawsuit, ok, what about it? nobody knows, only lawyers
i'm just waiting for new mods to make up for the ones who resigned
@Shadow probably gonna cost in the low six figures to fight, and chances of success are low
I wouldn't count on it
and even if it works, these cases take long. If it ends up going that way, expect a resolution in 4+ years, with legal team mandated absolutely no comment until then
new mods will definitely appear at some point to replace the lost ones, and the decline in overall content quality will be gradual, but... I don't think most sites of the network will be affected as badly as the top 10 most popular ones
2:09 PM
new elections will probably take well into next year to be scheduled so it'll leave quite a gap
my prediction is 80% of the sites won't feel a thing after all this in terms of lack of moderation attention
idk about the profits from the top sites like SO though, but I don't care about profits
right now the primary effect that the mods who are left have more stress
@mag depressing
2:11 PM
yeah. I feel bad for the remaining mods
this'll probably continue until the outrage has sufficiently died down to hold elections, say spring or early summer next year, and then it'll become a regular footnote in the network's history. this has been your daily dose of cynical mag the overtly cynical.
@mag I'd expect the first few elections to be dominated by this tbh
maybe not dominated
but affected
sure, but I expect them to clamp down hard on any protest nominations of comments in that vein
another reason it'll be some months before any start
I'm a bit surprised the outrage has lasted a full month
@JAD at least there will be prominent news articles alongside the initial badmouthing articles, which would have a potential to offset the damage to career prospects
2:14 PM
@mag depends. If anyone with enough visibility notice that campaign, I do expect things to become very heated.
@Stevoisiak grief from low rate of improvement of the site has lasted for years for many active users, so no wonder imo
@SPArchaeologist-様 Twitter makes it easy.
we've been taught that being active helps solve problems, and now we're doing the only thing we know
@SPArchaeologist-様 who knows
To clarify: I more so mean I don't know if I've seen an community outrage this continuous before
2:15 PM
it might become heated in a very different direction
@Stevoisiak every subsequent outrage is a little (or lot) longer, more intense, and more caustic then the last...
it also might coincide with the outrage culture of the present day
I think the licensing thing from september also helped boost it
like a multi-staged rocket
tell you what though
add to that that there are multiple layers to this drama
if monica makes a go fund me for suing SE over this, and it has to come to that, I'll personally put 100$ towards it
2:17 PM
I kinda have to wonder if someone is playing 7D chess, actually intending for the things to improve, but they knew it had to get a lot worse before it could get significantly better
if only to spite the idea that they think this'll just go away
@user1306322 I kinda have to wonder if someone is playing 7D chess period. If so, I would very much like to meet that someone!
I honestly don't care anymore. I just want the drama to end and people to stop getting hurt.
@Stevoisiak I remember the rainbow logo was quite intense.
(the coincidence is not intended)
@Gwideon some people enjoy drama and getting hurt in a safe environment, like movie theaters :p
2:20 PM
@user1306322 problem is this isn't exactly a safe place emotionally for a lot of people
@user1306322 I don't think so. The controversy was initially flamed by several spur-of-the-moment responses they thought would help.
no I haven't
no, haven't either
I would say the whole situation is way too bungled to be 7d chess
or that would be some truly abstract 7d chess
2:21 PM
Now they realize that everything they say or do will be judged to hell and back
@mag or that's what the 8d chessplayer would want to make you think
@MetaAndrewT. Hardly! That was far less widespread, I don't think it even made it off of SO and it only lasted 24 hours anyway.
Compare the initial Apology/Register comments/FAQ to what came later
You can see a lot more preparation going into each response
I can see a gofundme might raise several grand though
Don't forget the copy paste responses on the first few resignations
2:22 PM
@user1306322 I kinda wonder if someone is playing 7d chess, but they were given the instruction for Monopoly instead.
the people SE ticked off with this are largely software developers
I honestly hate the reaction that this has gotten. I hate how people have lashed out at anyone who disagrees. I honestly felt safer with the new CoC. I know alot of it has to do with monica's firing but some comments that i saw where honestly hurtful. I flagged them but um yeah.
@SPArchaeologist-様 we definitely have players who have instructions for capitalism on the server...
@mag I can see a gofundme picked up by some visible Twitter influencer.
@mag Even worse: They ticked off a community of software-developing wiki editors
2:24 PM
sorry i'll shut up
Meanwhile, still no response on my GDPR request or email asking for clarification
@Stevoisiak I meant that in a "people who are more likely then your average sample of the population to have excess income and are opinionated enough to spend it on that" way
@Cerbrus They've got a full month to do so
@Cerbrus that's curious, I filed one and got the link via automatic email instantly
2:25 PM
@Gwideon no need to shut up, I don't think anyone is angry at you or anything.
@mag It's possible there's an issue when requesting data with restrictions
might be
I think people who just asked for only their data have been fine
@Cerbrus a lot of companies stall as long as possible to respond to stuff like that. one of the reasons youtube's copyright system is so frustrating
they still have only a month unless they send you a timely justification for why it takes longer
2:26 PM
@Cerbrus Have you tried sending a second request only asking for your data with no extra restrictions?
The least they could do is to email back saying, "sorry, there were some issues with the request, we're looking into it"
@Stevoisiak The first request was just that
@Cerbrus I imagine manpower is a little limited at SE right now
@Gwideon Why would one stall a GDPR request?
@Gwideon The knack in this whole situation is that whenever someone (say, a company like SE) kicks off positive changes with a flounder like firing monica, the two become inextricably linked in the discourse. And suddenly outside people who like to stir drama (like the lovely ... people on that 8chan board who are keenly observing this situation) have an in to blend pot stirring into the general discontent
@Cerbrus why would anyone stall anything in the legal world to the maximum time frame allowed by law without penalty
2:28 PM
Even among the controversies, I still stand by "assume good intent"
@Stevoisiak from whom
@Cerbrus not sure but companies tend to do it when they don't want to deal with something
@user1306322 Relating to the GDPR request
@Gwideon There's no reason SE wouldn't want to get a GDPR request gone asap
It's a simple data dump
My best guess: The GDPR is normally a fully automatic system. However, something in Cerbus's account caused the system to error unexpectedly. Now they have to get someone to manually review it
2:29 PM
One that is automated, looking at the response times other have gotten
@Stevoisiak Wrong account
@Cerbrus Thanks
Maybe the fact that I have an account on basically all of the SE sites makes it a difficult one...
@Stevoisiak (SE a few days later: uhh guys we don't know how it happened but apparently something in Gwideon's account caused this error?) lol
@mag yeah. It makes me sad that those two things got linked. if they had resolved the monica situation first i doubt the backlash would've been as bad. there were problems with the first FAQ but um I feel SE and the community would probably be less adversarial towards each other
Until the deadline gets closer, I'm still willing to assume good intent
2:31 PM
Heck, it's possible an error like this may have never happened before
@Stevoisiak Oh, sure. I'm just getting more and more curious what could be causing the delay
@Cerbrus I mean, the delay is probably Meta SE being on fire
It might be that simply nobody is available to process the erroring automatic system now
@Cerbrus I don't know much about big server stuff so I'm probably wrong. I would assume that it is an error or something. might submit another request soon
2:32 PM
@Stevoisiak Well, that wouldn't explain the process failing in the first place.
@Gwideon yea that's what people have been saying, and if only someone from management read meta and took it seriously...
@cerb if need be you can still moan to the ICO office that'll probably kick it off
@mag Well, if they don't respond within that month, I might as well. But they've still got plenty of time
@user1306322 I think at this point, they've been reading meta. The new FAQ is evident of that
@Gwideon I am not even sure the two things started as separated in the first place. But that is just speculative thinking so I guess I will drop it there.
2:33 PM
@Stevoisiak a select few CMs who have always been reading meta were reading meta
@JAD there's not many CMs
@Stevoisiak we can still assume good faith but evident from the actual changes it might just be that they don't know what they're doing, even with all the best intentions at heart
and most probably are at least a little aware on most days
If you look at the original timeline, most of the controversial responses happened over less than a week
we definitely landed on 8chan with this situation by the way
2:35 PM
@user1306322 Yeah. It's part of the reason why I feel both SE and the community are both responsible for the hurt some people are feeling. The community for saying some really hurtful things and SE for sparking the whole situation
someone asked me about it on discord
Imagine being in charge here, going on vacation for a week, then coming back to this...
@SPArchaeologist-様 they may not have
@JourneymanGeek ok, all the CMs, who are a select few of the entire company*
2:35 PM
@JAD close enough I guess
@Cerbrus at risk of not really knowing what's going on, i'd probably be at least severely annoyed
Aye, I'd be significantly displeased
I for one am surprised at the notion that such a big part of the company is unfamiliar with their own product, but apparently that's how it is
Oct 23 at 22:53, by Shog9
But no. It was meant to be like... An appendix. Supplementary material for discussions regarding the blog post.
even so, if a decision making officer doesn't have the time to read everything, why not trust subordinates who do have the time to read everything, for a short summary, and act on it?
2:37 PM
This gives a lot of context behind the thought process IMO
There's multiple messages if you check the link on that comment
@Stevoisiak Oh I'm sure they had the best intentions... The problem is just that they're so disconnected from the community, they couldn't even comprehend how it'd be received.
@Cerbrus That is not an accident
Oh would you look at that
My GDPR request came through
@Cerbrus SE for some reason believes they need to distance themselves from the community
2:39 PM
The general sentiment (as george explained and elaborated in his resignation) is that no community is better then a bad one. And we are the bad one
thats good
Someone's totally watching me here ;-)
Illuminati confirmed
Thanks, Illuminati :P
It's probably at least in part seen to be an opportunity to excise undesirable elements from the community
Bah bah bah bah baaaah baaaaaaaaaahhhh
2:40 PM
@JAD Q&A wasn't the main product for a few years
sorry it's hard to make musical sounds in text
@JourneymanGeek depends slightly on the definition of product though. Does it bring in most of the money? No. Can it exist without it? Probably not either.
@Cerbrus as in all data? Or an explanation?
@JAD well, there was little/no development on Q&A for a bit
@Gwideon Sounds of Silence, mentioned that before. Even in the best case scenario, they have decided the best solution was a vow of silence.
2:41 PM
and careers took most of the attention
@SPArchaeologist-様 that's not a very good strategy as not addressing anything will just make the community more annoyed.
No. "The Bat Cave" — Snow 44 mins ago
misread as The Bart Cave
@Gwideon ask Grace
@Bart The actual data
@Stevoisiak Before there was not enough nuance in the rules of conduct on the site. After... there's not enough? And if getting enough is too complicated, can we go back to simple?
2:43 PM
@Shadow I'm sure that reference gets missed ....
@user1306322 Imo, the new FAQ is good for me
i think the new FAQ is good
@JourneymanGeek I understand how that means that you don't get in touch with the entire product from day to day, but still...
@rene who knows :)
2:46 PM
The Code of Conduct update itself is simple, only a 2 sentence change
I didn't think any change around FAQ was warranted at all, I would have still trusted moderators to do their thing, just based on the discussions on meta.
The FAQ was the complex part
@JAD there's apparently employees who don't know what Stack Exchange is? ._.
Bizarre in my mind, but ohwell
@Stevoisiak so before it was Be and.
and the other line didn't have a proper sentence structure at all :p
that's weird diff screenshot
2:48 PM
@user1306322 Original text was "Be kind and friendly"
It says it above the image
Looks like they don't have my physical address on file. That's good :-)
then the diff image is incorrect
The diff only shows the +line, not the -line
Which, yes, is a bit strange
it's difficult
one of the things I would like is for the team to set more transparent ETAs on bugs
I get that site icons is not particularly important but at least give me an estimate in years
2:52 PM
ETAs in software development is hard
as a developer myself, I know that
@Gwideon oh, I know... but so far it kinda "worked". See how we forgot all the previous incidents from the last year and half.
(notice: nope, I don't really approve this but... it is working for SE or so does it seems)
I usually put a "lowest priority, PRs welcome" on such issues in my projects
but SE is closed source so yea no dice
Problem is that every time the "anger bar" does not really reset. Every time it restarts a little higher than the previous one.
@SPArchaeologist-様 yep, and the issue at hand ends up as colleteral damage as a result of the bigger issues
2:55 PM
there's also a stamina mechanic that comes into play at high anger values...
Heh, not different to my country.
player reviews for this game are declining lol
but like in all MMOs with certain flawed mechanics, you can just avoid raids altogether and grind bushes for grass to craft pots...
Oh my god lol. I've been trying to figure out what game you people were talking about
the untitled goose game
46 mins ago, by mag
@Stevoisiak every subsequent outrage is a little (or lot) longer, more intense, and more caustic then the last...
3:02 PM
@user1306322 *honk*
sounds like "outrage" is a name for a boss attack
"caustic" is of course a type of poison stat
big Dark Souls vibes
@user1306322 to be countered by...
ye with a judge and cases like that no wonder attorneys have to break into private property and employ illegal tactics to inspect the entirety of the case
(yes, it is known that the game is a commentary on the state of Japan's broken legal system)
@Cerbrus Those games are fun :)
@user1306322 Oh I don't even really know the game
3:06 PM
oh it's fun enough, you should check it out
I'll add them to my backlog xD
all 3 games remaster
holy hell the price!
some companies haven't heard about regional pricing at all, probably wondering what's with all the piracy
Yea, I'm not gonna pay that...
regional pricing might become illegal in europe, by the by
winter sale is coming up, maybe it'll be down 90%
3:09 PM
@user1306322 Me and my brothers had fun seeing how much they still dare ask for the Freddi Fish games.
@mag then I expect prices to match to a regional average and not go dollar-for-euro in number coz that doesn't exactly match up in buying power
@user1306322 iirc france's position on this is that if a game is 60$ in the US; it must be 60$ * {Dollars-to-Euro-conversion-Rate} in all of europe
look at this insanity steamdb.info/app/921570
sit down with an accountant or something, look at the other game's pricing policy, it's your job!
@user1306322 Japan? You mean that isn't Los Angeles?
@user1306322 my currency is the 2nd/3rd cheapest :D
but it's heck expensive compared to the minimum salary & living cost...
@JAD all locations in the game are translated to be "in America" but all the art is still japanese backdrops and traditional furniture
@user1306322 also, Yokai.
3:22 PM
3:36 PM
@rene you are lucky. I misread "The Mod Squad" as "The Mop Squad"
@SPArchaeologist-様 That's much the same squad anyways ;)
The place has been a lot like Viscera Cleanup Detail anyway
@Tinkeringbell depends on how you read it. Use the mop or BE the mop?
@SPArchaeologist-様 Probably both :)
4:08 PM
Out of curiosity, is anyone here familiar with Puzzling.SE's game chat rooms?
@user1306322 The reason why Ace Attorney is set in America is pretty amusing.
> Because of the time zone difference trick in the first episode, there was a need to decide on where the game was going to take place. Thus, the localization team of PW:AA had already picked the direction of the localization for me -- total localization. - Source
...more to the point, I'm trying to get a game of Contact going and it'd be nice to have some fresh blood ;)
@user1306322 noticed that line only now. Just wondering, why you asked?
4:23 PM
@user58 oh man, that looks fun. But the rules are a bit confusing to me at first read through. I need to read them again.
@Rubiksmoose There's a game sorta happening now. If you watch it, it should make things relatively clear :)
4:38 PM
I'll look tonight. I kinda suck at puzzles if they're not jigsaws though ;)
@user58 Can one just jump in? Or is it best to wait until a new one starts?
you can jump in
attacking I would assume?
yes; only one defender per game
Excellent. I've understood at least that much.
4:43 PM
5:38 PM
4 messages moved to Trashcan
Let's... not get into this now, please.
5 messages moved to Trashcan
@user58 Thank you
You're doing a great job
I really appreciate everything you guys have been doing
I thought this was the random room for meta. If it's not, instead of kicking me, how about you direct me to the correct room. The description didn't say one way or another what this room is about, so I figured it was the generic chat room for all discussions. Even if I was being rude (which I was not), kicking me out of a room and deleting what I say is objectively incredibly rude.
General note: we talk about plenty of hot topics here. There's a good way to bring it up suich that it is likely to start healthy productive discussion. And there's bad ways which lead to flame wars, name-calling and other unkind and unwelcome behavior. Try your best to do the former.
5:43 PM
@YetAnotherRandomUser Calling out a specific user like that would not be acceptable in any room on SE
This is the general MSE chat room. That doesn't mean that anything goes. Coming in here, posting a rude message, and then leveling accusations at a specific user is not acceptable.
@YetAnotherRandomUser They are a room owner. It is their job to keep chat on-topic, friendly, and generally to avoid things blowing up as much as possible. Far from being rude, it is their job to remove things likely to run afoul of this room's guidelines.
a kick is like a wikipedia trout
a small reminder to re-evaluate behavior
A kick is a warning. Please treat it as such. You were also asked specifically not to bring this up now, after your first message was removed.
@Stevoisiak With the right background music (warning: potentially NSFW image, because why should it be possible to find a song without an objectifying image), anything is possible... ;)
@user58 The YouTube Music version has a SFW thumbnail music.youtube.com/watch?v=VxRibbAomKw

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