Tavern on the Meta

forest

12:00 AM

Not exclusive to Texas.

But that generally southern area, sure.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

But it is used quite a bit in Texas

forest

yeah

There's also you'uns in the Ozarks (a large mountain range in the south in the US).

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

Although I've seen a lot of people think of "guys" as a male term.

forest

It depends on the context.

"Guys and girls" makes it male, but "you guys" makes it neutral.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

I ended up having that culture shock when I went to Texas: I referred to a group of not all guys as "you guys", and some people took that the wrong way. I was used to using that as a gender-neutral term because that's how I learned it with my SoCal education

forest

12:03 AM

Just like "guys and girls" refers to both adult men and women, whereas "men and girls" refers to adult men and young girls. The same terms can have a lot of different meanings in context.

I miss the days of "thou", when the grammar was far more consistent.

Aibobot

@forest the marketing team has been... busy churning out posts lately for some reason

forest

Desperate to improve their image as seen by other companies?

Aibobot

IDK

though that one is interesting, since its indirectly highlighting one of the non SO sites

forest

Yeah but... for Facebook?

There are few other companies more evil than them.

Aibobot

While facebook runs it

eh, its still interesting to the core constituency SO wants to attract

forest

12:18 AM

Next up: "Let's give a warm welcome to our new Los Zetas partners!"

Aibobot

Eh.

forest

(hyperbole, of course)

Aibobot

12:33 AM

And frankly - eh, its a better blog than some of the... garbage they have shared in the past

its something of interest, written very humanly...

forest

true

At least they aren't - can I use "jerking it" as a euphemism here? - to their inaccurate perception regarding how much the community must love them now with their horrid "inclusivity" push.

Aibobot

@forest eh actually that post actually acknowledges sites outside SO exist

that's an improvement

forest

ah

I think they did advertise some other sites before that they had deals with.

"See the one simple trick to become a git wiz" or whatever it was.

Journeyman Geek

12:50 AM

@forest Eh. It's less what than how

forest

1:17 AM

16

Q: Is there any mathematics that could only be learned by very few people?

I'm worbuilding a situation where new drug increases IQ when given to preschool children. Unfortunately only 1% of the recipients get the benefits, the rest risk their development being stunted. As a result drug is illegal. This creates moral dilemma for the parents, try you luck or play it safe....

This is why I have a low opinion of Worldbuilding. Look at these answers!

Aibobot

Worldbuilding is just 'fun'

forest

Yeah but the answers try to be correct, but are so often so, so wrong.

Literally the top of HNQ with answers that sound like they were written by a markov bot on shrooms.

Journeyman Geek

And they don't really matter

forest

Yeah but... people are wrong... on the internet!

The internet, hear me!

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

:P

forest

1:24 AM

Also, the math for modeling chaotic systems is actually really simple.

Félix Gagnon-Grenier

@forest I wonder how different would be answers by humans on shrroms compared to answers by bots on shrooms

forest

The hard part is collecting the data required to make the model accurate.

Totally random just because I got thinking about ways to power electronics with food or drugs... Wouldn't it be neat if someone powered an electric vehicle with lemons?

Something that could go to 120 mph using nothing but a truck bed full of lemons.

Journeyman Geek

So... youtube?

Cause someone tried the lemons thing

forest

I don't use YouTube. I wouldn't know. :/

And here I was thinking my ever-so-slightly high idea was novel. :(

Journeyman Geek

....

laughingsquid.com/lemon-powered-battery

Lemons, check. Ludicious speeds.... check

Truck bed, ok, you got it

Aibobot

1:38 AM

hm, funny

I'm on a work VPN connected to houson...

and its... showing google india 0_0

forest

You ever heard the saying "GeoIP is a lie"?

Oh gee, looking at Meta I see a bunch of high-voted posts calling out staff as liars. I can't even begin to imagine what would happen if I posted said answer. :D

Oh well, it's not like SE is known for being free of severe double-standards.

In a way, that's a little comforting, since I no longer feel singled-out.

It's not exactly what I'd think of as "inclusive" though, even if it... technically is.

Aibobot

@forest I have no idea how the backend of SE's done.

@forest Well, I'm not a mod at the moment :D

and if you had substanciatable accusations... eh...

Honestly, its strange times now

forest

1:53 AM

Oh, you mean like "in my opinion, this post is a bit hypocritical"? :P

Or objective and provable contradictions regarding web resources?

But yes, these are indeed strange times.

Aibobot

And honestly - in a lot of these cases, if I was a moderator on the spot, I might leave it to staff

that said, this chat kinda should have a few pinned rules ;p

forest

Eh, I was held to standards from this chat even in other chats, so...

That wouldn't do much good.

Aibobot

and not just set by me. I've been too worn out to be as active as I was before.

lol. Or network wide standards.

Also shouldn't that be the other way around?

forest

Yeah, a network-wide standard would be nice.

I mean, as long as it is enforced after the rules are stabilized!

There should be a rule: "You must follow all these rules and all future rules that are yet to come".

"Not following rules, even if they have not been made, will result in immediate dismissal"

Aibobot

oh, I can't share details

forest

1:58 AM

Apparently no one can, not even to the people involved. :D

Aibobot

but... it was messy and there's was a lot more going on than was out

I don't/can't speak for how SO has managed/mismanaged the situation

forest

mhm

Aibobot

outside public stuff. As a mod, well, you do hear a little more

forest

Forgive me if I have a hard time taking that statement at face value after being lied to repeatedly by staff, and finding out that others feel the exact same way and have for a while now.

Aibobot

I don't agree with how it was handled and the resulting fallout

oh joy.

forest

2:00 AM

(see hyperlink)

Aibobot

Part of the problem seems that people seem convinced they are correct and can't let it go

forest

That's what everyone says in a he says she says scenario.

Aibobot

and at this point

I'm less convinced that who was right and who was wrong is important

fixing the damage on the short term is

forest

@Aibobot I was under the impression that the people involved are kept in the loop.

Aibobot

and examining the company/community relationship and where its failed is

forest

2:01 AM

I.e. that Monica would have been told the details that the rest of us aren't permitted to know.

@Aibobot Oh yes that's the overreaching issue, for sure.

Aibobot

@forest I only know what people choose to tell me

forest

Also I do see that I was wrong earlier about calling out the CEO.

Reading more into it, it's the CTO who is at least partially responsible (allegedly).

Aibobot

and a lot of it is stuff I have been asked to be private about

forest

(But, like most people who are not in big business, I casually refer to "CEO" as a catch-all position for anyone in power who is making many big decisions, even if that's not technically correct)

Aibobot

@forest I don't know the CEO

forest

2:03 AM

Also uh, Sara Chips or whoever it was. I dunno what her position is.

But people seem pretty mad at her non-apology apology.

Aibobot

Director of public Q&A

she's kinda the person over the CM team

forest

ouch

I see at least one reason why the CM team is having a hard time doing what they need to. :/

Aibobot

@forest eh that's one of many reasons

They're big enough to thread water on a normal day

forest

fix'd

Aibobot

they're nowhere scaled large enough for the network as it is now

forest

2:05 AM

Yeah, what with all the panic attacks and shaking on the floor in fetal position is causes. :P

(OK sorry I'm getting a little abrasive now)

Aibobot

eh, that's the rest of the company

forest

oh yeah

Aibobot

The CM team has been a rock, and under appreciated

forest

The other thing that really pisses me off is my content being re-licensed.

Aibobot

and I'm not just buttering up folks I'd like to work with some day ;p

forest

2:06 AM

I absolutely do not consent to that, and I will treat my content accordingly.

And/or will not feel bad if I violate license agreements myself.

...which I've probably unintentionally done tbh

Wait, can I send a C&D letter to resolve this?

user638712

🙄

user638712

I was going to suggest DMCA

forest

Does DMCA apply to this? I thought that was only for explicit removal.

user638712

True. We need enough users to DMCA for them to fix the issue instead of actually delete.

user638712

A class takedown

forest

2:10 AM

I mean, I could use DMCA and try to get all my answers taken down but... I don't want them gone. I just want them licensed under the license I agreed to at the time of writing them.

user638712

Yeah. Me too. 😔

forest

I hope you opted out of the arbitration clause (if it applied to you) then!

I almost wonder if that was intentional :D

It's like they're playing the long con!

(kidding)

user638712

I did indeed.

forest

If there's a class action going to occur at any time, I'd love to know.

I feel deeply wronged by having my legal rights under the Berne Convention violated.

Though I'm a bit of a hypocrite (but not a liar, @Aibobot! :D) since I'm a media pirate...

Aibobot

@forest its happened... 3-4 times with no issues

the relicencing that is

forest

2:17 AM

Not from what I read. The other events were similar, but not this explicit.

The other changes were not retroactive.

Aibobot

they were

actually one of them was "We changed the licence yesterday"

forest

Well that just makes the legal case look even easier.

Aibobot

The big difference is ~~no one cared~~ I think folks trusted Jeff, and the network was smaller.

forest

Ah, so this was long ago.

Aibobot

There were two previous, equally messy licence changes

forest

2:19 AM

Before a significant amount of money was involved.

Aibobot

@forest well, no one bothered in a while about many things D:

forest

Looks like SE has run out of freebies.

Aibobot

Well there's a few things working together

SO is big enough to matter as a political kickball...

and the focus has been on ... other stuff for so long that a lot of competencies have been... lost

as has trust

forest

Trust will only be regained when all the existing (problematic) staff are let go.

The CTO and Sara, and whoever else is contributing to this (I still think the CEO must have some responsibility, being the CEO and all, but I'll admit that's a wild guess). Then maybe the trust can be slowly rebuilt with the community.

Aibobot

erf

I kinda disagree

forest

2:24 AM

How so?

Aibobot

While mistakes were made - its also worth looking at what and who we can build up as much as what we can tear down

If we fire everyone involved, I'm pretty sure a good amount of top level SE would be gutted

and there would be even more disruption

forest

You gotta remove the bullet eventually.

Even if it hurts.

Aibobot

I'd much rather folks realise that while its rather depleted the community team knows their stuff and realise the best way to fix things with the commmunity is to build them up and look at what they can do

Cause I personally feel they can so much more as community evangelists than working in the shadows

the community team was its own org with folks right up to a veep.

forest

If they fear/hate the community so much that they have severe, clinical bodily reactions to the mere thought of talking to the community, I don't feel that they have the potential to help us.

Aibobot

@forest Some people just are not good at that.

As long as they're good at what they do, and leave the people who are good at it to do it...

forest

2:28 AM

Then they should not be working in a community-oriented platform.

Aibobot

We might not have a problem!

forest

Yeah, unfortunately the people in control aren't good at what they do. :/

That's why I think they need to be replaced.

Aibobot

@forest and yet, we have what we have

forest

That would be the first thing the company could do to really, truly build trust.

Aibobot

@forest and kinda obviously calling for that, with egos...

is going to cause more issues

forest

2:30 AM

Oh yeah I know there's no way it'll happen. They'll just continue circling the wagons.

Removing anyone who objects, doubly so if they are mods or otherwise influential.

Aibobot

@forest eh, I think there was a little more than that

forest

Already happened to me. I can't imagine what would have happened if I was influential.

Aibobot

and the depth of the reaction was unexpected

forest

Because they want their own perfect, Americentric oasis. I wonder what would happen if they learned what kinds of things Australians say that they consider to be universe-ending insults!

Aibobot

@forest monica's done a lot more than you have ;p

You don't really matter :D

forest

2:31 AM

Indeed. I'm a big contributor on one inconsequential site with its own culture. That's all I am here.

With literally no impact on any site that really matters (e.g. SO or SU).

And frankly, this is hurting SO more than other SE sites.

(The Americentrism is one of the many things that pisses me off about this culture)

"American ideals are the only ones that matter! American feelings are the only important feelings!"

Etc etc

If it's offensive to upper-middle class white Americans, then woah, the world is ending!

Rob

@forest You have so many extremely excellent answers on Security.SE. If I have spare time reading them is on my list of things to do.

John Dvorak

Welcome to America's backyard, the Internet. Play nicely and they won't notice us.

forest

yup

I used to work at a job that required that I deal with controversial content on websites, and it was surprisingly hard to find a host that wasn't heavily influenced or even controlled by American policy.

It's a shame Maxided died and Ecatel lost their touch. :(

(not that I'm huge fans of their poor uptime, but still)

John Dvorak

Here's the set of measurement units you are allowed to use here. The only thing metric on the list is the second, and even those are only tolerated because there's no competing standard. Also a metric ton of conversion factors.

forest

And who do you think lead the assaults against them? The US.

@JohnDvorak What about electrical power? A watt is one joule of power per second, which is metric.

It really hurts in aviation, tbh.

That's where metric is needed most, but the culture is dead set on imperial.

It's always pounds of fuel, feet of altitude, knots of speed.

John Dvorak

2:41 AM

A knot is just a nautical mile per hour.

forest

Which still isn't metric.

I mean sure, it divides a whole number of meters, but it's not a nice round number like 1000.

John Dvorak

Watts confuse Americans. You can ease them in by saying "kilowatt-hour per hour", but horse power is still preferred.

forest

hah

kWh is so stupid too. kJ would be far preferred.

Then you could very easily convert it to J/s (i.e. watts).

John Dvorak

At least you still know what number to divide by by reading the unit name

Also, it avoids the calorie / Calorie confusion.

forest

In biochemistry, as soon as I switched to joules, things became a thousand times easier.

cal vs kcal/Cal was horrible (which became important when working with free energy change)

John Dvorak

2:45 AM

other versioned units are at least within an order of magnitude.

Marc.2377

Hi. Quick question. If I share a link to my chat user profile (chat.meta.stackexchange.com/users/251162/marc-2377), do registered users have the option of starting a new chat room with me?

forest

@Marc.2377 I think so, yeah.

At least on most sites. Maybe not Meta.SE.

Marc.2377

hmm, that would be chat.stackexchange.com/users/166615/marc-2377 then

ty.

forest

Yeah, I can click "start a new room with this user" to chat with you.

Marc.2377

oh it works on meta se.

forest

2:48 AM

But I didn't see that option here on Meta.SE chat.

Marc.2377

fellow @JohnDvorak was so kind as to help me test it

@forest oh. really?

forest

Yeah I don't see the option here.

Marc.2377

how did you manage that @JohnDvorak?

nevermind. I visited your profile @forest and I can see the option to start a new room

forest

huh

I don't see it for anyone.

Perhaps some moderator has prevented me from doing that for some reason.

Marc.2377

weird indeed. not a matter of reputation as you have so much more than me.

Journeyman Geek

2:51 AM

erf

@forest lemme check

thx

....

???

I just realised I'm not a mod anymore and can't

forest

lel

Did you get your mod privs revoked or did you resign?

Journeyman Geek

2:53 AM

resigned

forest

I see the sun shining. I no longer have to tiptoe around you.

Rob

Didn't you remain a RO?

forest

Yeah he's RO, he has an italic name.

@JourneymanGeek It'd be weird though, since I never abused that feature.

Marc.2377

next question would be about moderation then.

I left a comment under a certain question, as a response to another user manifesting his disappointment with the current handling of some matters by SE Inc. The comments says in verbatim:
`Chris, whether that continues to happen or the company has an actual change of heart (much needed, but unfortunately, as more time passes, day after day of radio silence, it seems progressively less likely so), some of us as a community are organizing efforts to offer a proper alternative should participation on this network become unmanageable in the future.…

forest

(I don't think I've ever used it either...)

@Marc.2377 A link inviting someone to a chat room would likely be fine.

After all, there is a "continue this in chat" option in many cases.

Journeyman Geek

2:56 AM

@forest if memory serves, if you get kicked often enough, you get room creation powers removed

Marc.2377

precisely my thoughts.

forest

@JourneymanGeek Oh that makes sense. That's... an odd connection, though.

But oh boy I have been kicked from here quite a number of times.