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6:27 PM
@ShadowWizard nice knives
 
6:44 PM
thanks for getting back to me! It was very clear-cut, started at a few minutes before noon UTC, and seemed to have ended at around 2 PM UTC (though I had to leave so if there were further issues afterward I wouldn't have seen them). I saw issues both on laptop (firefox dev edition with noscript) and mobile (vanilla firefox mobile). Another Hungarian I know wasn't affected. There's 1 user who was: https://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7487221#7487221.
They seem to have gotten rid of the issue at the same time as I did (just before the previously linked chat message). There's
 
Sounds good :) Glad to hear it resolved itself, whatever it was
 
oops, sorry for the multiping
 
best issue ever
 
heisenbug is best bug
 
heisenbug in Greece might mean unpaid overtime... dunno for sure
 
6:51 PM
it doesn't help that I don't have the slightest clue about how The Internet works so I can't help debug beyond "it don't work"
 
you mean SE, well, if you were able to help, maybe you should've been preparing to defend in court...
 
I'm sure there's a broad range of possibilities between "should go to jail because knows things he shouldn't" and "knows what a request is"
 
"what a request is" doesn't have to do much with SE, but "knows exactly what the problem is because he studied the source code" might count as hacking
and not white-hat hacking in this case
 
yes, hence why I was talking about how The Internet works, rather than how SE works
You can help debug something if you know how to use it. I can't put together an MCVE when chat.SE is crapping out if I can only see that it doesn't work.
(broad sense of MCVE of course)
 
broad sense? so it doesn't even have to be code? ... :P
I think I can do that if needed...
 
7:01 PM
MCVE can be a generic concept in any kind of problem solving...
 
7:22 PM
@AndrasDeak well
if I needed to troubleshoot - I'd ping the site. Try traceroute...
 
I could've pinged, I usually do that. I was too busy complaining that things didn't work that I forgot :P
 
ping tells you if it work
traceroute or pathping tells you were it dosen't work
 
but... but... free rep!
 
I suspect the server would've pinged. I got various timeouts. Page loads would hang in the "making TLS handshake to chat.*.com" phase based on what firefox told me while the page was trying to load
 
Maybe FF tried to contact the CA to verify the CRL and that failed?
 
7:28 PM
Something like that might explain why both firefoxes of my had issues, but that would mean much more people should've been affected. Also shouldn't I have gotten some security warning or something instead?
 
I dunno, I'm always good to come up with unlikely failure cases.
 
well... it's not like an "unlikely failure case" will necessarily be patched if it's not too serious or hasn't noticeably happened yet
 
7:53 PM
Can you tell me why the heck the following question has been downvoted?
-4
Q: Where can I ask questions on mobile computing (in general)?

nbroFor example, I would like to ask the following question "What is the difference between range-free and range-based localization methods for mobile devices"? In which Stack Exchange website should I ask this question and, in general, questions on mobile computing topics? See e.g. this paper.

Dearest and most esteemed members of The Tavern, while I realize that you are probably not the ones who downvoted my question I beseech you to have mercy on me and share your great knowledge: what problems lie in my question, that others may have found it objectionable?
 
...dude
 
lol
 
leeetle bit excessive ;)
 
well, that got flagged
 
Me, excessive?
lol
 
7:55 PM
tooth aches are offensive
 
Imma edit that message and then answer your question
 
we all know that the reason for downvoting is losing your keys, not having toothache
:P
 
@AndrasDeak According to whom? You?
 
heh
 
Tim lost his teeth?
2
 
7:57 PM
Edited.
 
I simply don't get why it was downvoted and someone thinks it is a duplicate. Seriously?
Other people are getting mad and I need to accept it?
If someone tells me "It was downvoted because it sucks"
 
@Shog9 sounds quite passive-aggressive now, brb downvoting
 
Ok, but tell me why it sucks.
 
geez, be patient. I'm all worn out from that edit, gimme time to type
 
Well, if you used more than two fingers for it...
 
7:59 PM
Shog bespoke flag-saving edit used up, recharging... [**** ] 40%
 
@AndrasDeak lol, you make me laugh.
This is all useless conversation
It is a waste of time
And no actual useful problem was solved
 
wait wait, Shog is almost done typing an answer
 
Shog worn down... first step of tragedy
yesterday, by EKons
> At 6:08 PM, 1/10/2019, Shog has officially been pronounced dead. The cause was revealed to be physical fatigue.
:P
 
Ok, so let's start at the top:
> Where can I ask questions on mobile computing (in general)?
that's already pretty vague before the parenthetical
and then the parenthetical implies the question is probably even less well-defined than the previous words might imply
 
@Shog9 Why vague? What is vague there?
 
8:00 PM
@nbro "mobile computing" covers a vast range of topics at this point
 
Mobile computing is human–computer interaction by which a computer is expected to be transported during normal usage, which allows for transmission of data, voice and video. Mobile computing involves mobile communication, mobile hardware, and mobile software. Communication issues include ad hoc networks and infrastructure networks as well as communication properties, protocols, data formats and concrete technologies. Hardware includes mobile devices or device components. Mobile software deals with the characteristics and requirements of mobile applications. == Main Principle == Portabili...
 
wut
 
I'm sure Shog appreciates the clarification
 
I'm asking where can I ask question on mobile computing
What is unclear about it?
Is it the verb "ask"?
I don't know
 
I think you should ask the question on a site for computing (and tag it with [mobile])
 
8:01 PM
@nbro its "mobile computing"
 
yes, and I'm saying "mobile computing" isn't a topic, or even a field exactly, it's a broad classification of topics and fields
 
are we talking android, idevice, wrist-top abacus?
 
Windows Phone?
 
@JourneymanGeek Seriously? What is vague about it? General means vague?
 
tbf, we have many sites under the category "Technology"
 
8:02 PM
Only because I am not asking about Android, is it vague?
 
That doesn't make it bad, but we're not big on vague questions here - we like specifics. So, ok, you're interested in mobile computing - maybe there are specifics in the body of the question? But then it says (in general), which kinda implies... No.
 
Yes, I am asking about the field: mobile computing
 
@nbro there's specific android, apple and windows phone sites.....
 
but what exactly do you want to ask?
 
@JourneymanGeek I don't care
 
8:02 PM
perhaps you should start on Interpersonal Skills
 
@nbro what's the actual question look like?
 
So folks are prejudiced right from the start. Thinking, "ok, this guy probably doesn't have a specific question". You don't really want prejudiced folks reading your question, but that's what you got. So, what do they find when they open it?
 
I provided an example question "What is the difference between range-free and range-based localization methods for mobile devices"
 
> I would like to ask the following question "What is the difference between range-free and range-based localization methods for mobile devices"?
 
ah...
errrr
 
8:03 PM
Hey, that's somewhat more specific!
 
Which is a question that people who work in the mobile computing field should be able to answer
 
Not a lot more specific, but at least somewhat.
 
yup. I haven't a clue though
 
So, two steps back, one step forward, follow?
 
I provided an example question. But I am interested to ask many other similar questions. Like how is localization performed in mobile computers?
 
8:04 PM
Here's the bit where, after starting off on the wrong foot, then trying to regain your balance... You really need to take a confident step forward: include the rest of your question. Or at least some details.
IOW, not just the title
 
also, Google is your friend sometimes
 
Whatever
I am sick of this community
 
lol. I googled it... and wonder if its really a CS question
 
I will delete it
 
How many downvotes did you have before "How is that a duplicate of mine? Seriously? Also, what your problem? Why downvoting it?"?
 
8:05 PM
also
 
This is probably the less friendly community of all communities on SE
 
ooking at the question...
gnat likes that close reason a lot
I'd personally consider ignoring it
 
Yeah, that's a really bad dupe target.
 
Here a lot of angry coward people who hide behind the screen.
 
its not really subjective
 
8:06 PM
(for this question)
 
We have this discussion for nothing
 
Lol
 
@nbro I know you're annoyed but its unfair to tar people with that brush
 
@JourneymanGeek Not all. Here's the only community where people seem to have tooth ache all the time
 
Sometimes there's no simple answer, and we really are trying to help
 
8:07 PM
Yeah, can confirm. I'm the cowardest of all.
 
@nbro well, win them over. Be clove oil.
 
Is clove oil good for toothaches?
 
I won't delete it, because that will make some of you happy.
 
here's the thing. We're trying to help
yup
 
You are not trying to help at all
 
8:08 PM
we are...
 
really? I just told you the dupe vote was bogus.
 
we've suggested some steps to follow, that will help a lot
 
Let me give you an example to show you that you are not right
Ok?
 
I mean
 
I'm not helping at all. But I usually reflect the effort of people who come to me.
 
8:09 PM
Supposed I had asked the question "Where can I ask questions on quantum computing (in general)?"
 
the folks here are trying to help
but we're getting a lot of attitude
 
Would it have been vague?
 
@nbro people might point you at the QC site - with caveat because it exists
 
@JourneymanGeek If the site doesn't exist, does it mean that my question is vague?
Seriously?
 
8:10 PM
quantum computing <<< "mobile computing"
 
but sometimes things are not always as straightforward
 
@nbro ugh
time to suck on a lozenge for this ache of mine I guess
 
as we've said enough times, "mobile computing" isn't one thing, but a whole range of topics
 
@nbro no, but it may need some work to figure out the best place for the question
 
@EKons Hah. I didn't know about this (sarcasm). What about quantum computing? Is it just one thing?
 
8:11 PM
yes
 
MEE
@nbro Meta means murder. This is what the founder of this network wrote.
 
yes, QC is one topic
 
Is it though?
 
@AndrasDeak First, look at my profile to verify that you probably know more about quantum computing than me to assert your statements!
 
@JohnDvorak ssssh, yes it is
OK, nbro
 
8:13 PM
@nbro More that, if the site doesn't exist, and we want to help you find a good place for your question, we'll probably need more information so that we can see if your question can be shoehorned into the scope of an actual site. Otherwise, you'll have to be happy with the answer "At this time, there's not a place for your question." Asking for detail is our way of trying to find somewhere for you to ask your question.
 
@Catija I would be happy with the answer "At this time, there's not a place for your question.", if that's the case.
We just waste a lot of time in a useless conversation.
 
Note that the conversation was bound to be useless in the way you started it
 
^
 
@AndrasDeak Not exactly. I wanted to understand why the question was downvoted. I still don't understand it. There's the tag site-recomendation. Can you tell me why?
 
8:15 PM
@nbro If that specific question you want to ask would be on topic somewhere, that benefits you and our network. You get a place to ask and possibly get an answer, and we get a good question for our network.
 
@AndrasDeak can we... not... antagonize, please?
 
I didn't. I mean I did earlier, but that particular message was completely factual
either way I've lost interest
 
🍿
 
Not everything that is allowed is useful, @andrs
 
close enough
 
8:17 PM
@Catija I understand that. But if there is still no site where my question would be on-topic, does it mean that my question is bad or off-topic for this website, where there is the tag site-recommendation?
 
a question being on topic, useful, and even stellar, still doesn't protect it from drive by downvotes.
 
Shog tried to explain it why it is.
 
crap is vague though ;p
 
Useless talks. Keep talking if you want. I have things more important to do. If someone really "discovers" (like a scientific finding) why my question was scientifically downvoted, please, let me know, otherwise, please, do not tag me.
 
In general, there's nothing wrong with site recommendation questions, no. There are a few reasons why your question may have been downvoted:
1. It's not clear what you're asking. Remember that users on MSE aren't necessarily experts in every subject we cover but we are (sometimes) experts in what subjects the network covers. So getting a better idea that a non-mobile computing expert will understand will help get you to an answer.
2. Sometimes people downvote questions that are duplicates because they feel that if you'd put effort into your question, you'd have found the existing one. It's
 
8:28 PM
Kick'd
I too have more important things to do, which is why I stopped talking
Coming back to find you insulting me for trying to help you is messed up dude
 
I'm struggling to stay awake ._.
 
@JourneymanGeek Messed up sleep schedule?
 
Work
last night shift till end feb tho
 
sleep schedule not always perfect true
 
sleep schedule? How do you plan a thing like that?
 
8:33 PM
secret methods of crossing fingers
 
by going to sleep at roughly the same time every day
I found not doing it really really messes up my quality of life
 
I go to sleep at roughly the same time every day... unfortunately it's usually around 2 a.m., so not very helpful for functioning.
 
nothing compares to the 4:51 AM I did once :P
 
its 4:35 now
only staying awake cause its a weekend and I have a podcast in the background
 
wait how does dog stay awake so early
 
8:36 PM
@EKons alas, my job's swing shift
 
@EKons Poor sleeping habits.
 
so I sleep all day and work all night
 
Wat, wait, wrong ping
 
so Literally I work until about 8.30, get home around 10, sleep till 1, lunch, sleep more...
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ but... dogs aren't supposed to have configurable sleeping time other than jet lag, are they? ;P
 
8:38 PM
@nbro The only toxicity in the transcript I'm reading is yours. It's a bit contradictory to visit the chatroom of a site you're sick of.
 
@EKons Eh, I do that every few weeks ;) My record for staying up, though, is something like 68 hours
 
what noooo
 
@EKons That's doggist!
 
@EKons not much choice lol
 
Or humanist. Can't decide
 
8:39 PM
I see your job is pretty... good luck keeping stuff together :P
 
Good luck keeping yourself together
 
hopefully nothing happens
falls apart
 
Did you just wish for the heat death of universe?
 
Its probably not a forever job. Just long enough for something better ;)
 
8:40 PM
ew dog intestines aw, dog died RIP
 
What is wrong with said dog?
@EKons I think he'd turn into skittles
 
well... his nose could have a worse fate...
if you know what I mean...
 
I see you're trying to ruin my dinner
Try harder
 
@Catija Regarding 1. I think that if you don't understand something, it doesn't mean it is unclear. It is unclear to you, yes, but because you are ignorant (literally). I don't think my question is unclear at all, but maybe this is my opinion (at this point, on this website). Regarding 2, I also agree with you. But, again, if someone finds the duplicate of my question, I will be happy to delete the question!
 
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ you don't know what I mean... :P
 
8:44 PM
@EKons Yeah I just assumed the most horrific things possible and made a generalized statement
That covered most
 
you have an Xbox?
 
@nbro you already did. And its also on you to make things clear as much as its on others to understand.
 
@Shog9 I didn't insult you at all. I didn't attack anyone personally here.
 
@EKons No but I'm a good man
 
@nbro you're using a really agressive tone in general
 
8:45 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ oh phew you don't have dog nose axis controls :P (note: not actual dog nose)
 
@JourneymanGeek Aggressive doesn't mean insulting.
 
you might find you have an easier time if you take a step back and realise calling people ignorant isn't nice,
@nbro it can be
 
@nbro I 100% understand what you're saying with #1. I wouldn't say it that way but ... I think what's worth remembering is who you're talking to. If you're on a site for physics, you can get away with using jargon to some degree or not fully explaining things but MSE is for users of the entire network, not just single subjects, so you need to tailor your question for that audience. Yes, it takes more work, but it means that more people can actually help you if you do that.
 
@nbro No but it means people aren't having fun talking to you
 
If you ignore, you are ignorant. This is the definition of ignorant.
 
8:47 PM
Definitions don't provide all the possible nuances and connotations.
 
Anyway, I didn't attack anyone personally, unless you attack me. I hope this is clear.
@Catija I agree. But I even provided an example question. What should I have provided more? Should I have described the whole mobile computing field? I don't know. I tried to be clear, but whatever.
 
You'd have a lot more success if you took down the attitude a couple notches
 
MEE
@nbro We don't say you had bad intentions but according to our code of conduct terms that feel personal even when they're applied to content aren't okay either.
 
@Magisch I think people attacked me by downvoting my question without a good reason, so I am little pissed off, yes.
 
Checking out @nbro's question
I swear gnat's running a script that randomly chooses front page questions and closes them as a dupe of that poll post
 
MEE
8:50 PM
And as others have said. Try to formulate a full question (with body and not just title) and include it inside your post.
 
Having said that, this is possibly the reason for a couple of downvotes:
@gnat How is that a duplicate of mine? Seriously? Also, what your problem? Why downvoting it? — nbro 8 hours ago
To be clear, the tone, not challenging the duplicate
 
What does the tone of the comment have to do with the question? Only because it was me who asked it? This is not a very good way of evaluating the quality of questions. But who am I to give an opinion here.
 
The rest, one possible legitimate reason is merely providing the title for said question, but pretty sure @Cat said that and you're not willing to include more info for some reason.
 
Anyway, I will leave you. I have other stuff to do now.
 
@nbro I don't think an aggressive attitude is limited only to users called "nbro".
So it's not about you, but people do have the impulse to downvote if they feel engaging isn't going to end up improving their mood.
@nbro Seriously? Good luck then.
 
8:54 PM
@nbro Well, I think one of the points Shog was making earlier was that you weren't specific about what sorts of mobile systems. Even if the answer to that is "all mobile systems", that's detail. Or, if you're only interested in phones or laptops or other stuff...
 
@nbro You're (hopefully) asking (to understand) why you got downvotes instead of an answer, and you bail out in the middle of a conversation with people who take their time to explain how things could turn out differently, and people who invested their time in trying to help you. You don't need to call people names to actually have insulted them.
 
MEE
@Catija is there any chance to get at least a comment from you (CMs) on this post of mine without using a bounty or twitter? I would really appreciate some response like No, no way or We might consider it.
 
Sorry, I don't meant to keep calling you back, though. :) I'm sorry you had a bad experience but I hope we can help improve it in the future. I appreciate your willingness to talk about it.
 
For varying definitions of "willingness"
@MEE No, no way we might consider it
 
MEE
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ hey, stop making fun of mee. :)
 
9:01 PM
BTW what does MEE stand for? Is it a long "me", or Meditating Extraterrestrial Elephants?
 
the opposite of "hey, stop making fun of mee. :)" :P
 
Four husks, very ugly
Aliens are always ugly
 
MEE
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Some pun. Next time ping me or I won't see your reply... :D
 
@MEE Ooh is it a middle-of-work thing?
 
@mee is sure it's just a pun itself :P
 
9:03 PM
Programmers generally suck at acronyms though, no?
 
@MEE We're aware of the question! I haven't had a chance to read it yet, though.
 
MEE
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Well I thought it would by funny to call myself "me" on a website but SE requires at least three characters for user names.
 
OOP, Gif, ALGOL
Lamest pronunciations of the century
 
MEE
@Catija ok thanks for a response. :) So no need for a bounty then runs away to hide the saved rep
 
@MEE I would have gone for "me, dammit"
 
9:06 PM
comma not allowed :(
 
Mecomma dammit dammit
 
bah... lame
sd f
 
waffles
sd del
 
@EKons System to blame
rn del
Rene is unresponsive
 
yeah he realized what he did and he's hiding
a common way to hide is stacking waffles in front of you ;)
flower doesn't need too many waffles to hide
(psst @rene enemy's gone)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:05 PM
OH FRABJOUS HOUR! CALLOOH! CALLAY!
...wait, that doesn't rhyme
 
Oh hey... I'm still awake
 
callour?
 
11:23 PM
Surprisingly awake... and morning!
still sleepy though, so I'm gonna sleep again again...
 
@Catija callar.
 
Half hour left on my shift
 
a watched clock never boils
...wait...
 
11:39 PM
@nbro I was the one mentioning a possible duplicate. Sorry that I couldn't be more specific because I posted my comment on mobile (searching and copy/pasting the dupes is not my cup of tea). Now that I'm on PC... I've found this, this, this and this.
That's why I believe the title is a duplicate of something, but the particular question might be on-topic on other SE site unrelated to mobile computing, which I haven't (and didn't have time to) research.
 
11:58 PM
3 min :p
Practically half an hour
 
3-minute cooking!
 

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