Tavern on the Meta

Shadow Wizard

13:04

I actually ate lettuce this week... no idea if romaine. ;(

Fun fact: the company I ordered shoes from also using ZenDesk. Just created a support ticket now. ;)

Derpy

oh, seems there is a background replacer for VS Code too

Do you ever wondered where users that can't properly format code on SO come from?

Shadow Wizard

13:32

@Derpy not really ;)

bleh... always forget the syntax for Cursors in SQL Server.

and myself

Cursor c = db.query(.. hmm, I think it's wrong...

Shadow Wizard

Something like Create Cursor... Select Into Cursor... Fetch Next... etc.

Derpy

Nov 25 '16 at 13:24, by Derpy

every time I repost this, I have to specify it is not a joke/photoshop. That exception really exists.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/…

user194636

13:51

@ShadowWizard DECLARE cursor_name CURSOR

Shadow Wizard

@PaulWhite thanks, found something better here. :)

(I have it in various projects too, too lazy to open and search ;))

user194636

ok

Magisch

@Derpy but ... why?

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch Microsoft

They are known for totally lame/useless exceptions.

Magisch

We have an "Ehxception", which is when the booked order amount doesn't match the delivery note amount

Shadow Wizard

13:56

@Magisch does it trigger emails and red light alarms?

Magisch

no, just a log entry

Shadow Wizard

oh

SE should have it for swag events...

and myself

@ShadowWizard Unlike... gravity on Death Star?

Magisch

"Ehxception" is actually the generic error logging function in our new system, for errors that are usually discarded

Shadow Wizard

@andmyself not sure what it is so yeah, probably different case. ;)

user194636

14:00

Mehxception might have been a good name too.

Magisch

@ShadowWizard This wasn't actually a joke, this is the prototype: pastebin.com/PWpJGuY2

Shadow Wizard

Done!

Declare db_cursor Cursor For
Select Seq, ChampionshipCategoryId
From ContentPages
Where ChampionshipCategoryId Is Not Null And Len(ChampionshipCategoryId)>0

Open db_cursor
Fetch Next From db_cursor Into @CurrentPageSeq, @CurrentChampionship

While @@FETCH_STATUS = 0
Begin
    Print @CurrentChampionship;
    Fetch Next From db_cursor Into @CurrentPageSeq, @CurrentChampionship
End

Close db_cursor
Deallocate db_cursor

Now to do the actual stuff instead of just printing...

hmm... @Derpy does SQL Server have IsNullOrEmpty function?

Could be useful ^^^

@Magisch I know yours wasn't a joke, replied to the Death Star gravity message. :)

Magisch

we have a lot of puns in our system

some of my coworkers are even punnier then me

Shadow Wizard

Coworkers... oh this reminds me! @Tink hope you're having fun today! :D

Magisch

we also have the funktion function

and myself

14:15

need 5 more covfefe...

Shadow Wizard

!!/covfefe andmy

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizard No such command 'covfefe'.

Shadow Wizard

covfefe

283 3 5

o_O

Derpy

@Magisch Ever saw the first print of the SharePoint Developer Companion Handbook?

Wait wait wait...

I CAN DO BETTER

there is no need for a joke about that manuscript

Reality is much funnier.

here, @Magisch. This is taken from actual, real world SharePoint CAML schema definition documentation

please, admire its wonders.

Magisch

33 mins ago, by Magisch

@Derpy but ... why?

Derpy

14:30

you have XML property which value must be a case-sensitive "TRUE" otherwise they will be considered false, others that must be case-insensitive "TRUE" otherwise will considered false, some that are considered true if assigned a value, even if that value is "FALSE" and so on....

fbueckert

Ooh. Sharepoint CAML.

I have to work with that myself right now.

Magisch

UniqueIdentifierWithOrWithoutValueWithOrWithoutDashes what horrors the gods have wrought....

Derpy

oh, those are the Guids...

Magisch

And I thought I was being dirty by shortcutting my way into iterating over a fileinput selection list

Derpy

Some property accept Guids only in {A966C65A-BA69-4222-AB79-FDA6EED6DFB8} format, for others you would have to write "A966C65ABA694222AB79FDA6EED6DFB8" and so on

fbueckert

14:34

Sharepoint development in general is a mishmash of .NET code and, "Oh, god, why would you do that!?"

Derpy

and guess what? If you write the value in an unsupported way... have fun noticing

because most of the time you will meet a silent failure with no indication that is the case

Remember the old 90' Sierra point and click adventure games?

fbueckert

My original CAML query was invalid, so it just shrugged and gave me the entire list. That was fun.

I think I still have all the King's Quest games kicking around somewhere.

Derpy

Remember how they were full of nonsensical puzzles and Unwinable by design situations (you forgot an item in the first screen? the last puzzle in the game is impossible now)?

fbueckert

Game design was still pretty fledgling back then.

Derpy

SharePoint must be made by the same team that made those games

fbueckert

14:37

Heck, I've still got some old TRS-80 text adventure games.

Stored on 5 1/4" floppies.

and myself

TIL SharePoint is a point-and-click adventure games...

Magisch

SharePointAndClickAdventureGameWithOrWithoutDashesWithOrWithoutBraces

fbueckert

Sharepoint feels more like the .NET guys wrapped up the framework, went on a bender, and smashed out something approximating that in an evening, and couldn't remember how it worked when they sobered up.

And then Microsoft made it their go-to CMS system, so now they're stuck with it.

Magisch

It does sound like the product of a week of cocaine fueled euophoria in the nineties.

fbueckert

Probably explains why Sharepoint development is fairly lucrative; it requires a slightly insane programmer to really make sense of it.

Something Bad Happened

14:44

5

A: Time to say goodbye

Sorry, I was away at the funeral when you posted this. We've had many conversations about this, so for me, it was not unexpected. I will likely follow you shortly and for the same reasons. When the attitude of an organization is "If you don't like it, leave", I tend to take the advice. I know...

Derpy

@fbueckert I always though the reason was that once you have it, not even baba may be able to remove the hex it places on your soul.

fbueckert

@Derpy Yeah, so it's a bit of a career dead-ender; you're stuck with that knowledge for the rest of your life.

I've made Sharepoint do things it was never meant to do. It grumbled, it complained, and once the beatings stopped, it did what I wanted it to.

and myself

@SomethingBadHappened based on the last meta post, he's not yet leaving though

Something Bad Happened

@andmyself I am getting the impression that OP of that thread was the one who got a lot too upset so maybe take a take it with a truckload of salt.

Magisch

@SomethingBadHappened context?

Shadow Wizard

14:57

I think it was the other guy.

Something Bad Happened

@Magisch everything is awful

Shadow Wizard

Who was much more creepy, towards the end at least.

and myself

Regarding the OP, there's a sock that happened to complain on MSE.

Something Bad Happened

Oct 21 at 10:04, by Kuri_Kame

Now, SE has made it clear that "ranting on Twitter" is their German, while "posting on meta" is their English, and as it turns out, I'm actually quite good at their German, so why am I even trying to tell them in English? :P

matching suspension duration so I guess it is

Shadow Wizard

Why suspend a sock?! Mods usually just delete those.

Derpy

15:00

@fbueckert You got the "Never Again" trait!

fbueckert

@Derpy Well, I seem to be rather successful at parlaying old and crappy languages into decently paying jobs. I'll work with Sharepoint...for the right price.

Shadow Wizard

$1000000 per day?

Derpy

RA! RA! SharePoint fhtagn!

fbueckert

That'd be lovely, but, sadly, no.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy is this a spell?

Something Bad Happened

15:03

Oct 21 at 9:58, by Kuri_Kame

@JourneymanGeek The actual reason why SE goes so well is people do a lot of their work for free. They don't need to test their changes before release because ... you know, people will raise problems on meta. People will enforce their site rules and prevent garbage from spreading in the comments or answers ... Stuff like that.

Oct 21 at 10:01, by Kuri_Kame

@JourneymanGeek You know, I never really found this Twitter to be much useful. But now I'm considering creating an account there, and getting some thousand followers, so that I can get things done on SE with an angry tweet and obnoxious behaviour rather than a well considered "constructive" meta post.

Shadow Wizard

@fbueckert I worked with SharePoint for two years. Forgot everything by now, keep getting job suggestions for it somehow.

Something Bad Happened

lol this guy's funny. i wish he hadn't gone off the deep end.

Derpy

@ShadowWizard watch closely, you may see SharePoint rising from the sea in the distance

Shadow Wizard

@SomethingBadHappened many more will follow. Hopefully many others will arrive, otherwise SE itself is "going off the deep end". (thanks for making me learn a new phrase. :))

Heck... even @JourneymanGeek becomes impatient as time goes by and nothing happens, as far as I can see, and he's the most patient person I know.

Something Bad Happened

He does seem to have a lot of that virtue.

Shadow Wizard

15:06

@Derpy nah, that's just a narwhal.

(another thing I learned only due to being in MSE chat, had no idea such animals exist before that. Think it was @UniKitty who first told me about them?)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body (97): Is it appropriate to use correlation coefficient as a measure of agreement when comparing the results of different (analytical) methods? ✏️ by Payam Delfani on stats.SE

Derpy

@ShadowWizard oh, then I guess it is time for useless trivia of the day.

Remember Alien?

Remember its second mouth?

Well.... it is a real thing

and myself

TWP is a bit mess with close-reopen race though... We're at least partially about helping people aren't we?, I'm just going to put this out there, Feature to allow high rep users to answer closed questions

Derpy

it is called Pharyngeal jaw

Magisch

@ShadowWizard eh

and myself

15:13

and the following "request to reopen" meta posts after that day

Magisch

I'm not optimistic for getting a blog this year considering how much they have on their plate atm

Derpy

some eel species actually have it.

This Eel's Second Jaw Delivers the Death Blow

►

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy meaning?

@Derpy oh

and myself

the lag attack returns >_<

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch what blog? The one Tim said he'll Post?

Andras Deak

15:20

Shadow Wizard

8 close votes left...

> Cleared Customs
> Your package was released by the customs agency.

Yay! Might get the shoes before half year pass this time! :D

user1271772

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog what does cv-pls mean? There's no tag with that name that comes up in the search

Shadow Wizard

@TimPost to continue our comment discussion, try to put yourself in my shoes. How would you feel if features you liked and used often were removed? You really wouldn't consider this as something which can be improved or done better?

Andras Deak

@ShadowWizard once I ordered a few books from amazon. Arrived to Hungary in a week, I got it two months later

user1271772

"close vote please" I guess

Shadow Wizard

15:32

@user1271772 "cv" stands for "close vote", "pls" stands for "please".

and myself

@ShadowWizard I'll shrug, find a workaround, or find for alternatives?

user1271772

But the tag doesn't show up when I search

Shadow Wizard

Or "please close vote what follows".

Andras Deak

@user1271772 markdown abuse

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 it's just a.. way of speech... we have here in Tavern.

Andras Deak

15:32

@ShadowWizard more like "consider this for close votes"

Shadow Wizard

Makes the request more clear and distinguish it from the rest of the chat messages. @user

user1271772

It said "Tim post just entered the room"

and myself

status-creative-with-markdown

Shadow Wizard

@AndrasDeak lucky you! Shoes I ordered from eBay arrived to Brazil, and I got them after 6 months.

user1271772

But now there's 4 images before his in the right-side

Tim Post

15:33

@ShadowWizard You can, you know, say "That stinks". Or whatever. It's fine to express frustration but it's like you're telling fire fighters that more water would help in a manner that assumes they might not know that.

That's just ... unhelpful.

Shadow Wizard

@TimPost you mean "that stinks" is better than "it feels half baked"??

user1271772

@ShadowWizard: "How would you feel if features you liked and used often were removed?" are they getting rid of features?

I'm new here

Just scrolling up to see what you're talking about

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 kind of, not directly.

Tim Post

"I miss that feature and this change stinks" is fine. I don't have to try and guess what you are trying to tell me. "This is half baked" .. I have no idea what you're even upset with.

user1271772

which features?

Shadow Wizard

15:35

@user1271772 you won't find it here.

0

Q: Haven't Received Any Email on Watched Tags Ever

I wonder if this is a broken functionality just on the stack exchange that I'm part of. I've subscribed to ethereum.stackexchange.com and I have three watched tags solidity parity and ethereum-classic and I've been watching them since mid-October 2018 but I have yet to receive any emails about ne...

bug status-bydesign email tag-watching

@user1271772 it's sorted by activity. It means four others did some action after he joined.

user1271772

So they're changing the way the emails are sent?

Tim Post

I'm fine with criticism as long as it points to something more specific than "You seem to not know what you're doing, at all" which is how you came off.

Andras Deak

@user1271772 just read it?

user1271772

Ok I see, now Tim Post appears first. Now Andreas

Tim Post

But anyway, it's not up to me what you write. We give you the platform to do it. You pinged me here, so I replied :)

user1271772

15:37

@AndrasDeak I read it

Shadow Wizard

@TimPost sorry about that, thought it should be obvious from the context of the question which is about the Tag Watching. So let me rephrase.... "I miss the ability to subscribe to a single tag, and the Tag Watching feels incomplete without it."

Better? :)

I do not think Tag Watching by itself stinks.

Neither the new image upload.

They just miss(ed) some key features.

Andras Deak

The twitter thing still stinks though.

Shadow Wizard

@TimPost well, I'm open for criticism, if I can write things better so they're heard in a better way, I'll do it.

fbueckert

As long as there's a way to disable email notifications. I'm gonna get super annoyed if I get an email because SE doesn't think I deal with things fast enough.

Shadow Wizard

7383572 waffles!

Andras Deak

15:41

Oops

Shadow Wizard

lol

Andras Deak

Thanks

user1271772

I believe that ShadowWizard said that he likes the new feature, but also wants to keep the old one

Shadow Wizard

oops

@user1271772 not exactly

user1271772

The half-baked cake is that the feature was released before it was fully complete

Shadow Wizard

15:44

True. ^

@user so how should we call you?

Does @use ping you?

user1271772

@ShadowWizard : So it is that you like the new feature, don't want to keep the old one, but just wanted the old feature to be kept during the transition phase?

@ShadowWizard This one made a noise on my computer

Even when you just typed "use"

Shadow Wizard

But @us will not ping you.

user1271772

@ShadowWizard You are right, there was no sound when you said @us

Shadow Wizard

Minimum for ping are first three letters of the name.

user1271772

@use worked though

Should I make my username shorter?

like just 127?

Shadow Wizard

15:46

OK, so you'll be "@user". Since you're the only one (for now), guess it's fine. ;)

@user1271772 that would make it easier to remember, yeah.

127 as in 127.0.0.1? @user

user1271772

I'm not as clever as you when it comes to making nicknames for myself

Shadow Wizard is a pretty cool name

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 Nicknames got nothing to do with wisdom...

@user1271772 think I once told someone about this, but not here, in Den.

user1271772

127.0.0.1 is the IP address of local ghost ?

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 exactly!

Just beware of the Ghost Busters.

user1271772

I didn't realize they chose 1271772 because of my IP address

I thought it was just a random username they gave me

Shadow Wizard

15:49

@user1271772 lol, they didn't. It's just a sequential user ID.

Not random.

user1271772

But I've seen newer users with shorter numbers

Shadow Wizard

Jeff has ID of 1 because he was the first user in the database.

user1271772

Jeff Artwood?

Shadow Wizard

lolz

Bart

But before Jeff, there was user -1

Shadow Wizard

15:49

You're a funny guy. :D

@Bart that's just a myth.

user1271772

Who was user -1 ?

Andras Deak

prejeff

Shadow Wizard

All powerful AI, known as... Community.

user1271772

Who was pre-Jeff ?

Jon Skeet ?

Shadow Wizard

lol

Bart

15:50

stackoverflow.com/users/-1

Shadow Wizard

He might as well.

user1271772

They probably made that "community" page later right?

Andras Deak

no, Community wrote the engine that runs SE

4

Jeff and Joel just discovered it later

user1271772

Why is there no user 0 ?

Shadow Wizard

@AndrasDeak Now things finally make sense!

Andras Deak

15:51

@user1271772 nullpointerexception

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 0 is false, it cause havoc in C# based programming.

user1271772

@ShadowWizard but not in FORTRAN

Bart

"Let there be SO; and there was SO" ... in the name of the Father, the Son, and the localhost

Andras Deak

in fortran only .false. is false

Shadow Wizard

e.g. if (user) { user.DoSomething(); } would always fail.

user1271772

15:52

well it's still false in fortran

Andras Deak

wired.com/2015/11/null

user1271772

1 = true, 0 = false

Nog Shine

There is no user:0

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 true

user1271772

but there's no "pointers" in fortran77, only from fortran2003 onwards

Bart

15:53

:0

Shadow Wizard

So you write fortran? @user

user1271772

@ShadowWizard I see, that makes a lot of sense

@ShadowWizard Fortran77 was my first language

Andras Deak

I hope you use intent specifications and implicit none

user1271772

Then started to use f90, f95, etc. I don't use much of f2003 or f2008

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 where are you from? (doesn't have to be exact location, e.g. country or even continent will do :))

Based on your activity hours I'd say USA but...

Andras Deak

15:56

you'd probably say the same thing about me

Shadow Wizard

hehe, true.

But I stopped assuming since my horrible mistake with @Magi. lol

Bart

@ShadowWizard what's next, their mother's maiden name? First pet?

Shadow Wizard

@Bart amount of children

Bart

2.6

Shadow Wizard

Hey, I just try to socialize! :P

@Bart average in Europe? Nice. :D

Bart

15:59

What do you think this is? A Tavern?

2

Shadow Wizard

@Bart not enough beer for that!

user1271772

@Bart Those are the secret questions to enter accounts when you forgot your password right?

Bart

Yup

Shadow Wizard

See? You are smart. :D

@Bart just wants to hack your bank account. ;)

user1271772

@ShadowWizard You are right about the location. Actually I was born in Toronto.

Shadow Wizard

16:01

@user1271772 nice! And moved to the USA?

user1271772

Well Toronto and New York have the same time zone

Shadow Wizard

ohh

user1271772

So "Based on your activity hours I'd say USA but..." is correct

Shadow Wizard

I was in Canada for two weeks, almost 10 years ago.

user1271772

I see

I believe Canada has one of the largest Israeli populations

Shadow Wizard

16:02

oh wait... more than 2 weeks, 20 days.

user1271772

Canada has the 3rd largest number of Jewish people per capita in the world (after Israel and USA)

Oops, looks like Gibraltar has more than USA!

Bart

I guess that would require just a single family to get the percentage up? ;)

user1271772

The Fortran started when I was a student,

@Bart : LOL yes, Gibraltar's a small place

Magisch

@ShadowWizard eh

Easy to make that mistake if you've never heard or seen me

actually there is a video around of me talking about charcoal as a call in for some conference

forgot when or what though

Shadow Wizard

:)

Bart

16:07

@Magisch link or it didn't happen!

Shadow Wizard

@user I was there during 2009 ^ (know the place?)

user1271772

This is in British Columbia

West part of Canada

Shadow Wizard

@user1271772 started? So you're... over 70 years old?

Mithrandir

@Bart -

Keynote: Open-Sourced Inspiration - The Present and Future of Tech - AI - Tanmay Bakshi

►

user1271772

Haha, well FORTRAN is still quite popular for heavy-duty numerics

Shadow Wizard

16:11

@user1271772 true! Butchart Gardens.

Mithrandir

^where we hear Magisch speak

Bart

Dangit. No cactuscam

Shadow Wizard

running speech recognition to locate @Magi ;)

user1271772

Is Magisch German for Magic ?

Magisch

yes

user1271772

16:12

I see

nice name

I'm looking for inspiration to come up with a name

Mithrandir

6:30 for the interesting part

Derpy

oh. The cheese mail just arrived.

Magisch

I can't listen to it myself, I have this thing where I really hate to hear my own voice

@Derpy cheesy!

Derpy

@Mithrandir check your mail, should be a message from JNat

Mithrandir

i saw already

but thanks

\o/

Shadow Wizard

16:14

@Derpy nice! Good surprise, for sure. :D

and myself

Wat? You got cheese in your mailbox?

Shadow Wizard

@user here is another picture from Canada, this time with me in it. :)

brrrr that was cold.

Derpy

@andmyself the cheese cutting board contest

Shadow Wizard

I think he's just trolling you.... @Derpy lol

@user1271772 what's your favorite book?

Or movie?

Just take a character from there and you have a name. :)

This is my source: forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_wizards

I loved to read Forgotten Realms books when younger.

Mithrandir

Congrats @Tinkeringbell, @JourneymanGeek, and @ChrisF on your new Meta.SE diamonds!

28

Magisch

16:20

:o congrats

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir better pin it :)

Mithrandir

could do that... if I had a mouse

Magisch

i can

muhaha

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir next time you can run this AJAX in browser console:

$.post("https://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/messages/[message id]/owner-star", { fkey: $("#fkey").val() });

Mithrandir

And how am I supposed to get the ID...?

Shadow Wizard

16:26

@Mithrandir without a mouse? gah...

lol

so just let other RO do it. :D

Mithrandir

I have lots of ideas for SE to improve their mouseless experience.

Shadow Wizard

Finally, moderators page is not empty!

I wonder though, if they can also access the private MSE chat rooms here, used so far only be SE staff?

Mithrandir

I'd be curious as well, but i'm guessing they can't

I'm sure they tested it before

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir hmm... no diamond in their chat profile. Though maybe just caching. :)

Mithrandir

yeah, that usually takes a while

usually a more senior mod will manually refresh, but...

Shadow Wizard

16:33

wait... whaaaaaaaat? I won the cheese contest too???? hihi

I had like 8 upvotes or so only... how can it be?

Mithrandir

25 is a lot.

Kevin B

two of them do, on their hats

Shadow Wizard

huh, 10 upvotes.

Mithrandir

I need a new hat... my brim is seriously fraying.

Bart

Wait ... the parrot has a diamond? After all the abuse I've faced at her hands/wings?

Shadow Wizard

16:39

> Your response has been recorded. You can expect your swag to arrive in the next 6 to 8 weeks! Or you can at least hope so... I hope so...

LOL @JNat ^

:)

(guess it's your doing?)

JNat

it is, yes

Shadow Wizard

hehe. Thanks!

@Bart abusing you was probably the thing making the team decide she's fit for the task. ;)

Bart

@ShadowWizard I see how it is ... Fires up Twitter

Shadow Wizard

waiting for diamond to become a fork in 10... 9.... 8...

What symbol did CHAOS members have? I keep forgetting. :(

Bart

Tridents

Shadow Wizard

16:47

ohh right

user1271772

@Mithrandir When was the election? Were they just appointed? Why didn't @ShadowWizard and @rene get in ?? What about @Gorfinkel ??

ArtOfCode

There's a one-word answer to that: "because" :P

user1271772

@ArtOfCode : Was it an "appointment" or "election" ?

ArtOfCode

Appointment

user1271772

They don't do elections here?

We should have had a chance to vote for ShadowWizard, he has even more than 100k

ArtOfCode

16:55

I mean

This is the first time MSE has had any non-employee mods

user1271772

Grolfindel has only 40k, but in 3 years. Everyone else that has more than 40k did it in 7+ years

ArtOfCode

Rep is not a good indicator of who makes a good mod

Magisch

New blog post by monica: cellio.dreamwidth.org/2018/11/20/se-twitter-fail.html

5

Probably of interest to people here

ArtOfCode

(see: Tinkeringbell, with 5k)

@Magisch Blog Post: Our theory of moderation revisited

7

user1271772

There's a new theory?

Magisch

16:57

I assume they know what they're doing and from knowing both journeyman and tinkeringbell for a while they certainly seem to know what they're doing

Bart

@user1271772 we can't trust @ShadowWizard with his evil Den

user1271772

@Bart That room is pretty cool

There's bots in there

I went there once

Magisch

@ArtOfCode Maybe I'm tired, but this seems to have very tenous relation to what monica wrote at best

Mithrandir

Bots on SE chat aren't that uncommon...

Magisch

Seems mostly completly unrelated

user1271772

16:59

@Mithrandir Have you been to Shadow Wizard's den ?

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