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5:01 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, username similar to website in answer: How do I figure out the right size font / text for a given read distance? by nonstopsigns on graphicdesign.SE
@Jhoverit I appreciate that you don't agree with the blog post but it's Not Nice to imply that the staff who worked on it and posted it with the best of intentions are guilty of hate speech.
@Catija sometimes internet filter is.... strange :/
like imgur.com is blocked as fun/meme (including SE's own, which I had to request to whitelist it)
so yeah, it can be for any reason why it's blocked on their office...
@JourneymanGeek it's a good idea for nginx, and it seem popular, on sf a lot of question are asked about it too, I see the trend
5:16 PM
@Catija I joked about a faulty internet filter. Nothing more :)
5:32 PM
Either there's a caching problem with /question list, or my internet sux badly: a post I modified appeared on the "active" question list after 5 minutes
never mind... the next post came after only 38 seconds...
@TelKitty that's... ridiculous? what kind of criteria "that people's don't want to read is"? I'm pretty sure if we account for everyone, there would be literally nothing left after we remove everyone's "don't want to read", yes?
5:50 PM
... was it meanly phrased?
I think she just wanted to get a reaction ;p
hmmm... I see!
(also, man, so much drama this week)
yeah... I think the last time I remember such was Joel's post on meta
5:55 PM
I actually think this time is worse
And that's a perfect time to take a deep breath ;p
I think like Tim Post, that it's a good thing people talk the issue, even if it bring drama
as it's a start to the right direction
Well yes and no
We can and should disagree on things
bit sometimes it gets too heated.
I agree, but my view is, in 2013, on meta SF we had the same drama about user too rude, it stayed under SF as a drama, but it got resolved as mod accept a lot less rudeness and the community too accept a lot less such. Now it hit SO, but the drama is bigger, as well, SO is bigger
Oh, there was a lot of other fallout from that
and well
this is partially, but not completely about how we treat new users
Even implicit sexism.
When drama is internal, its not that bad
... communication is hard.
6:01 PM
we sort things out, and we actually talk to each other, well on the same shared ground
I'm still struggling
the big thing here, I suspect that, a lot of folks feel "outside" folks are ... well attacking us. And its kinda easier to hate folks trying to change things from outside.
Yes, but now it's on SO
PERSONALLY I think we've just gotta take the good lessons, and ignore the hate :)
I was about to ignore the lessons and take the hate ... ;)
6:03 PM
Yes, as I remember old timer on SF that was rude, mod pinged them on the slack channel, and the problem resolved, now they even help with constructive remark, and the community follow
And every time we go and say something that folks can point at and go "these people are terrible" we lose
I just dont know how to bring that state of mind on SO, but breaking the buble was necessary I think
@rene its ok. some people hate flowers
@yagmoth555 well SO has a tiny bit of a scaling problem
Small banner ^ seen here
We have to admit that the creativity is awesome
@rene I thought that's a small banner that was zoomed, I think I was wrong...
6:12 PM
it is kind of in your face ...
@rene What brings that up?
not yet implemented, just an idea
I'm actually having an idea to overhaul the tour page, but the changes are so many that it might be hard to vote (feature request too broad?)
@Jhoverit asking a question does. The link might as well go to one of those sub-reddits where they criticize SE.
@rene I tried it, no banner for me
Oh, then it won't ever happen that much is obvious
oh wow. just tried to comment on something on ips, is that "suggest improvement" instead of "add a comment" new?
tbh however, it did have an effect: I might really not make a pun about Canadians
6:23 PM
its an experiment
@FélixGagnon-Grenier those are really bad ...
@rene the puns, the effect or the canadians?
you pick one ...
@FélixGagnon-Grenier yes
6:25 PM
I'll pick the effect­ and make the pun \o/
1. modify the structure: introduction, Q&A system (**move "tagging" to here + introduce downvote**), on/off-topicness, **edit+comment**, **link to [how to ask](https://stackoverflow.com/help/how-to-ask) & [how to answer](https://stackoverflow.com/help/how-to-answer)**, reputation, badges, help center -- reasoning: new users are either looking for asking/answering, not about reputation or badges; bring the important part first.
2. add 2 new bronze badges: 1 badge for opening "how to ask" and another for "how to answer", both delayed by 30 seconds (arbitrary number, at least if they rea
Any devs around? I just found something strange on this question: stackoverflow.com/q/50160513/5764553
Looks like a sub-50 rep user posted a comment
@hey (yeah, formatting is broken when multiline >_<)
@AndrewMyers it was mostly likely an auto-conversion of an answer to a comment
@AndrewMyers autoconversion when posting an answer with a link to another SO question, if I'm not mistaken?
6:32 PM
A: Answer appears automatically converted as a comment

Kevin MontroseTrivial answers containing a link to another question in the network are automatically converted to comments on the question, with the message Trivial answer converted to comment Poking some folks about perhaps a wee bit more indication that that happens, looked like a bug to me at first t...

Q: Why do I need 50 reputation to comment? What can I do instead?

PëkkaUsers with less than 50 reputation points cannot write comments on questions and answers that they don't own. Why does this limit exist? But I want to contribute now. What should I do instead? But I can't write a good answer without more information! But I saw a new user posting a comment! How...

"But I saw a new user posting a comment! How did they do it?"
That's a really cool feature I never knew about
@Taryn Last time I checked, that can be prone to abuse, because users can post an answer that intentionally triggers the script, then edit the resulting comment.
... acquiring 50 rep sounds simpler
but eh, who can judge?
Oh well, I guess I'll try posting my idea to overhaul the tour tomorrow...
6:39 PM
sd del
6:50 PM
undo's minirant of the day: We've been deleting a bunch of blatantly unwelcoming comments from 2010ish... but not as many as I thought, considering we're a site with sixty-six million comments. Are there just not that many, or is this the tip of the iceberg?
People who are running SEDE and finding this crap, keep doing it please. People who are interested, start! :)
(SEDE is most useful on Sunday morning US time, FWIW. Nice fresh data)
I would believe it's the former. SE is fighting windmills IMO.
@JohnDvorak Dredging these up has opened my mind to the possibility that there's more we're missing. Need more data.
by "unwelcoming" I mean comments like "wow you have big boobs". Objectively nasty stuff.
I don't call those "unwelcoming", but "sexist". If those aren't rare, we do have a problem...
"Rare" is interesting though. There may not be a lot of them, but many that I've removed have more than a few upvotes and are on questions that have a lot of views. So, they've been seen by a lot of people.
"Rare" is relative, and somewhat subjective in something like this
^ That
6:54 PM
Why would there even be comments like that? 0_0
@JourneymanGeek Some cultures are different. And some people are jerks.
An excellent question, but there are and they've been around for half a decade or more in recent cases that are flagged.
@Undo and avatars are small
@Andy You can have 66,000 of these and they're "only" 1% of the total... but I'd push for action on 1%. Or .1%. Or maybe .01%, but that's getting grey.
Yeah. I was going to compile a big list but I can only go back so far on moderator handled flags.
6:57 PM
Hoping Tim Post is able to get some data out for everyone to see, and hopefully some less aggregated data out for mods to see
Another very fringe XSS in teams: team names aren't encoded in the duplicate search error response. (Suggestion: this should probably be plain text instead of HTML.)
7:13 PM
@JourneymanGeek It's worth noting that no matter how much we don't like it, it's still commonplace in many cultures that women are second class citizens and misogyny in these isn't seen as bad or even impolite - just as a matter of course
In some places they can't even drive or walk around outside without adhering to some sort of oppressive public dress code
And of course some people are just jerks - which there will always be some of
@user1114 Also exists in support search page:
@user1114 Why did you blank your avatar?
I decline to answer.
7:16 PM
@user5389107 I mean, there's pretty much no reason the comment should have been made
@Andy gotta keep in mind too that most active devs aren't just seeing one question on SO... They'll often read several each day. So the chance that someone will eventually see one of these comments while casually browsing is a lot higher than their frequency might suggest.
Let alone survive
@Shog9 Or in my company's case: Stack overflow is 31% of all firewall traffic
7:18 PM
Which is impressive considering the site has an incredibly light data footprint
@JohnDvorak and how is that not unwelcoming? If I was a new user who saw a comment on the site like that, I wouldn't want to participate.
Now extrapolate that to comments that aren't blatantly inappropriate, and the chance that most folks will see comments that are off-putting becomes extremely high - even if those comments still aren't sitting on a majority of posts.
I'm not saying it's not unwelcoming. I'm saying that calling it unwelcoming is an understatement.
How do we actually reconcile everyone's "unwelcoming" definition? Like, in the case where two unwelcoming are contrary?
7:20 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier we apply common sense ;p
Which isn't overtly hostile but even I bristle at it and I'm a guy so this is probably more then just unwelcome
if only common sense were common ;)
@user5389107 Already deleted?
that is to say, comments really should be about the topic at hand.
This is what I run into on a lot of other forums: a whole lot of people are treated well and have a good time, but if you're an outsider just searching for information you're gonna run into the ones that don't do well getting stomped on long before you ever sign up, because chances are you're searching for something that isn't there or isn't easy to find... Just like they were.
I posted it earlier today
7:21 PM
And if they're blatently sexist, or mean, when we handle it appropriately as quickly as possibble
I mean like, how do we reconcile the unwelcoming front page of questions that show no effort with the unwelcoming comments that are made on these questions?
@FélixGagnon-Grenier At least over the unwelcoming comments on these questions we have some influence
directing what non-users say on their first interaction is a lot harder then getting regulars to tone back the snark a bit
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I used to post a bunch of comments that went "welcome to $site - in order for us to help us help you... <suggested fixes>
and its worth considering the river of sh** argument dosen't preclude common civility
7:26 PM
Do we count stuff like this under worth flagging:
@WayneWerner :find girlfrend && :set wildignore+=*ugly_ones* :D :+1: — itsnikolay Apr 24 at 7:23
It's an off color joke, so I was thinking nln
the comment is certainly NLN
c'mon tavern, y u no bot
No Longer Needed
7:27 PM
SE abbreviation for that middle comment flag
And then there's this:
ok.good job...I'm a girl. so can you set me up as the best answer?thank you very much. — abby Feb 9 at 9:18
not sure what to think about that
when in doubt flag as NLN\
lol oh dang I did not see the link
@user5389107 Looks like the OP called her "bro" and she thinks that answers in comments are answers. stackoverflow.com/questions/48700583/…
7:32 PM
I see a certain flower is also experimenting with sql patterns on SEDE
@Catija sigh
I was also playing around with data.SE
I have a feeling I'll spend a lot more time on this then I anticipated
@user5389107 I couldn't believe it would return results ...
Well, I'm sure that it will get a more immediate result than voting rings?
@Catija not sure how this warrants the "I'm a girl so apply preferential treatment" ? Or am I misunderstanding your point?
7:34 PM
I think it was a conjunction of correcting the "bro" addressing and something users regularly do
which is asking for accepts
@FélixGagnon-Grenier yeah, got me as well...
@user5389107 ah yes, indeed
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I don't think there was a request for preferential treatment... I think it was just a "I solved your problem, accept the answer"?
Some of these comment chains actually make me feel uncomfortable though
the patronizing attitude is definitely on display
I realized that the comments were on her answer, not on the question.
7:37 PM
@Catija I might have missed the . just after girl.
I'm ok with brushing this as two different sentences, but I just wish as much benefit of the doubt would be given to everyone.
"I'm a girl. so can you set me up as the best answer?"
Dunno. I've told people that I'm female in comments before after they've referred to me with a male pronoun/term.
Of course! Sorry if I'm unclear. It's just that the word "so" here, makes a radically different meaning than "I'm a girl. Can you accept my answer?"
Again, interpretation, I put a comma after "So" making it more like an "um". I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Regardless, everything in the comments there about voting and accepting is unnecessary.
I might say. So... [pause] ... if this solved your problem, feel free to accept my answer. It can be a change of subject marker.
@W.F. Cultural differences are also important! For exemple when you say "invite through the window" I imagine visiting a girl in here room before mariage! I am sure this is not what you meant! — Oliv Sep 17 '17 at 13:15
where are all of these hiding
@user5389107 can you elaborate?
7:43 PM
I'm really not sure that was necessary to extend a comment chain about irregular code into the creepy
I mean, I'm all for removing sexism, unwelcoming tone, and educating myself on what is unacceptable, but there is also a line after which it becomes "let's nuke every comment that features the word 'girl'".
far from it
most of these are actually @mentions for people who have girl in their username
So, what is it that you find incorrect in that comment?
In that case it looks like a sex joke. In a stack overflow comment thread about irregular code.
1.) Why is an analogy about meeting a girl in their room needed? 2.) The implication is what you do in that room...which is not needed here.
7:47 PM
they are explaining that they did not understand the choice of words the other person used.
They did that above in the comments before
This was purely a quip
And then there is "I like the way you're thinking ;)" as a follow up from another commenter
I don't know how to interpret that other then as a sex joke
Which is ... fine I guess but I wouldn't think it has a place on here. At best it's noise
I generally always use "they" when referring to people who haven't disclosed much about themselves
Can someone remind me of the moderator account details page URL? /account/ something
you mean the dashboard?
yeah, I think so
7:53 PM
The one that has the account (not user) ID in the URL.
I am poking around what the mod tools look like for a channels admin.
weirdly omnipresent bias against quiche eaters
you misspelt for ;)
@BlagovestBuyukliev: I find that to be for quiche eaters and for girls. C and C++ are complex. Get used to it. But I see your point ;-) — Bathsheba Mar 29 '17 at 11:37
Someone doesn't like people who enjoy quiche
7:57 PM
@user1114 Oh... I don't actually know if I'm familiar with that page.
because you don't have access to it
Well, there you go.
that explains my lack of success guessing.
7:58 PM
it's the one with all the real dirt on it. Annotations on moderators, lists of users who've called us names in the past and are due for some revenge served cold, a recipe for quiche lorraine...
Pro tip: you can safely eat Quiche Lorraine even if you're not a woman named Lorraine
@Shog9 I'd like to see my annotations sometime, I'm sure I have a couple (not on that page) :P
@user1114 That's the dashboard, yeah.
All these quiche-eater-haters never found out about the universal edibility test. They could've been enjoying quiche all along!
8:00 PM
Y'all annotate us?
I just meant that in this case. It looks like that doesn't exist in Channels, even though most mod views do.
Which is probably good.
is there a wave of anonymization of accounts? is there a way to verify like, usernames that have changed from whatever to a variation of /user[0-9]+/ since two weeks ago?
Pretty sure Ol' Slim has a script or something
wow, super secret employee's only dashboard on all users in the network? that sounds like some secret agent movie :D
8:04 PM
I may have embellished a bit
my curiosity might have just gone over 9000
It makes sense that they have a way to see all of the bad stuff you've done, rather than forcing themselves to go to each and every site account.
@user1114 so, you're activities have not gone unnoticed by our intrepid ... whatever the hell its called that monitors requests
You mind dropping a note to the teams folks just letting 'em know what you're doing so they don't freak out?
I expect a wave of users trying their luck with GDPR based disclosure requests to find out what annotations moderators and employees have placed on their accounts
wait does GDPR even work that way?
8:05 PM
@Shog9 Okay. Not much to report but I'll give the heads-up.
much obliged
@Catija but I haven't done bad stuff!!!!
@JourneymanGeek From my understanding yes. PII is every bit of information that can be directly related to a natural person (IP adresses count) and you can request all that a company has stored about you
8:06 PM
I'm sure you've had something flagged at some point in the past.
oh, yeah, assuredly
I've certainly insulted people in the past, but I would think that was in an "this discusison is escalating badly" context
I have a couple of historical ... um... less than congenial interactions that I'm sure may have lead to flags... though, I don't think I've ever been mod messaged.
Can you see mod messages you've recieved somewhere?
your email
I'm not sure if I have been but I'm curious now
8:07 PM
Not on site. Only if you keep the email you got.
ahh shucks
[the sound of everyone searching through all their 182764378098123674 emails]
ok that's a big integer, I might have exagerated
I recently cleared my emails from my personal email account
You can brute-force every possible message ID on the site to find yours. There aren't that many.
8:09 PM
@user1114 And just see which load?
In theory as a normal user only mine should load - I have a feeling on SO there are quite a few though
hmm... okay, yeah, maybe that's less practical than I thought for Stack Overflow.
Stack Overflow might take a little bit. Probably a couple days at least.
I guess my annotation would be 'would ban everyone, publicly, dont make him a mod', hehe
8:10 PM
mine was nice and small but it was in ye olde dayes: https://stackoverflow.com/users/message/645
I'm unconvinced SE wouldn't consider that abusive use of the website
I'm not aching to get IP banned
@user1114 (sorry to parachute in) Just to confirm: you're just white-hatting here and intend to privately disclose any vulnerability you find?
@DavidFullerton sorry -- yes I was in the middle of writing an email
I mentioned some XSS stuff in the chat here, publicly because I didn't think they are actually exploitable in practice.
okay, thanks
8:12 PM
I'll include them in the email for reference.
but I never get mod messaged, feel clean
@user1114 Yeah, and we're not too worried about XSS that is a self-exploit in a Team. Obviously more concerned if you're trying or manage to jump between Teams. If you start working on that, we can help you set up Teams to test against so you're not poking at a real customer's data.
Apparently no one likes Tim's formatting... yesterday someone removed his footnote formatting and today someone removed the title casing. :(
@DavidFullerton To the extent that I was doing that, I was trying against charcoal and sobotics because they're semi-public.
8:14 PM
ok, perfect, thanks!
yeah, Charcoal and SOBotics are... kinda trying to break stuff ;)
and we appreciate it! you're definitely showing up in the logs with some stuff we need to take a look at...
Yay for charcoal
I'm actually really happy charcoal gets to keep their team
YAY Teams! Go Team!
I wish my team could use Teams. :(
8:17 PM
@DavidFullerton did y'all figure out an efficient way to deal with teams that don't have shared email domains?
^probably relevant for mod Team
I was trying to be sneaky. Who knows if that's shareable...
Tim said it wasn't a secret :P
Oh, I missed that.
I'm so excited, by the way... I've been begging for so long.
@Catija not sure it's efficient, but we shipped with an invite-by-email-address option in addition to invite-by-email-domain.
8:19 PM
@user1114 Not sure what warranted the anonymization, but I hope you're doing ok. I missed a chapter here it seems.
@DavidFullerton Ah. At least it's better than the hoops Charcoal went through. :P
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Thank you.
I'm losing faith in humanity a bit:
If you were a some girl from my town, I would've had a lot of fun. :) 'You should pass NULL for the name of the event' - thanks ;) — The North Star Nov 25 '15 at 20:07
@Catija hey, it led to the discovery of at least a couple bugs
See, that's where you went wrong. Having faith in humanity.
@Ethaan brooo the girl in your profile pic is so cute :D — BoJack Horseman Oct 5 '15 at 12:42
Is this stack overflow or reddit?
this is internet
... oh wait. I am having a terrible idea
we all have
we just choose to not share them ...
@user5389107 glad you're seeing just a small sample of what it's like
heh. brb getting a tissue @rene ;)
8:26 PM
@Taryn tbh I'm just running a SEDE query
yeah I know
Just think though, that's out there not being handled and being seen by people.
And what I notice is a curious case of overuse of suggestive smiley faces in @ replies to people with girl names
not sure if that's my imagination playing on me because of my current mindset but it feels faintly gross to even look at
Can you use ;) or ;-) in the SQL search?
Did anyone else got logged out? Or is that just me?
... are you suggesting that ;-) is rude when talking to a known female?
8:28 PM
@Catija yes
@rene no repro
LIKE '%;)%' would work no? else you can do it with LIKE '%' + CHAR(code) + '%'
@JohnDvorak Never. It can be quite suggestive when talking "between guys" as sort of a "wink wink, nudge nudge, youtube.com/watch?v=SrDFGa0juCM
the former should work, yes.
8:31 PM
hmmm... that's some interesting parameterization. custom sql things SO invented or usual sql-server flavor?
sede specific
pretty cool.
... can it be injected?
... but yeah, cleverer people than me probably already tried to hack sede.
SEDE is a bit easier because you have the source code
so you know potential routes that could be open
8:38 PM
Now that is some BS right here:
You are my hero...if you were a girl I would marry you...if you are a man, then I would set you up with a mail to order bride... — xxwatcherxx Nov 9 '14 at 10:03
You can post bizarre stuff not only when you're mad, but also when you're happy
my current sifting through comments doesn't lend itself to happy surprises I'm afraid
Then . . . Don't sift?
Surf through comments
@Taryn I have to apologize for being dismissive yesterday :/
I wonder ... if the comments are bad, I know it's easier to post the link so that the comment shows up here... but maybe we should be posting non-revealing links so that the content of the comments isn't preserved permanently in chat?
8:43 PM
@user5389107 thanks, I appreciate that.
I was under the impression that these rarely happened and if they did they'd get deleted quick
@Catija yeah, don't make them one-box
SOCVR has a rule about that ...
that... uh, author also has a particular taste in example images
@user5389107 I definitely wish that were the case
You're not into inflated pleather?
8:45 PM
I'm really irritated at the actual rape jokes too
Like really really irritated
I'm not the joke police but cmon on SO that's really unnecessary
You can probably still at least comfort yourself by knowing we're still not as bad as Reddit... or at least 4Chan...
... yeah... that's not much of a bar.
... or usersub
Very small comfort.
Do we reach above Quora?
We will get better. It won't ever be perfect... but it will be better.
8:47 PM
embracing comfort
We have question bodies... we'll still be above Quora regardless.
see crap like this even gets upvoted: stackoverflow.com/questions/22854982/…
Who even has this discussion in an answer
The answer itself isn't really upworthy
Now that sounds like a name from a corner of the world I haven't been to
Which is either of the corners
@user5389107 nice example of people not knowing how to behave in an SO professional context
RE DCZ's post about who justifies as a Newb/Newbie/Noob/Noobie/New user
even found a couple on taryn's posts...
8:53 PM
Why isn't everyone flagging those comments? I don't see them gone . . .
@user5389107 she will always be turquoise feet
idk I'm down to 50 flags for today on just one keyword and I'm halfway through
so this is gonna be the long haul
BTW, sanity check: You weren't a regular here, right?
I was
I'm Magisch
I'm very forgettable :D
8:56 PM
@user5389107 I wondered where Magisch went
I blame @bro for killing my curiosity
@user5389107 yeah, I've had it happen a lot
the overuse of smileys must become obnoxious with time
Overuse? Haha, you should've seen snailboat

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