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hey
8:00 AM
@Praxeolitic the only way is to discuss it on their meta site, whether the tag is warranted or not...
 
@TravisJ ha, well it does feel a lot better to have someone patting me on the back rather than just feeling that I've asking a weird question no one likes
 
\o/
I am an optimist though, so here's hoping other people see the value in it
 
@hey I'd agree to that feature request assuming there's a warning first (i.e. after 2 R/A comments, notify the person, continued behavior results in 50 rep penalties)
 
I would probably avoid introducing the tag experimental-evolution. I just don't think there is much science being done in that category that is published, so no one really knows about it.
 
good point, thoughts on any existing tags I should add?
 
8:03 AM
this is me making an eww face
Introducing new tags is a huge hassle.
 
huge hassle? why is that?
 
hey
I guess 'evolution' is already a good broad tag. I'm not a regular there, so I don't have any idea what tags they have, but their community would probably add better tags for you
 
SO meta is really tiring to read right now if you dislike politics
 
hey
@user5389107 just ignore [welcoming] tag :)
 
@user5389107 I tried to strip my observation of the political aspects of what is being discussed. I think without the main contention point, it would make the overall situation much better.
@Praxeolitic Well, generally the set of tags a community has is rather static. Sure, new ones slowly slink in, but just as often they are burninated out.
 
8:07 AM
@TravisJ Blog post didn't help that. The meta discussion is mainly revolving around that rather then actual solutions or issues instead
 
I haven't been very active on SO lately, but it sort of blows my mind that on some sites I can just create tags since I have 1500+, are there downsides to doing so?
like how will I get called out if I create a terrible tag?
 
@user5389107 Blog post was trying to solve the problem from the top down. That is different. That post was meant to reach and affect every member of the community through one go. My suggestion is bottom up. It is meant to affect every member of the community slowly, on a post by post basis.
@Praxeolitic I don't think that anyone really calls you out unless it is being used for advertising or spam, so from that angle you should be safe. Downside is just introducing something that the community needs to clean up at some point.
 
@TravisJ Thats one part of the issue the other part of the issue is that it took a political stance (like it or not linking to an implicit bias test is you as a company taking a in political context far-left stance) and a lot of contributors who dislike that intensely immediately got defensive
 
hey
@Praxeolitic if it's not too major, the community would probably just remove the tag when they find it. Otherwise, a meta discussion will spawn if a user is too... "enthusiast" in creating new tags
 
Sad state of affairs that that is considered a far-left fringe stance, but it is. I'm not saying it should be, but it definitely is.
 
8:11 AM
so "huge hassle" means feeling personally concerned about keeping everything tidy, right? (that is a good reason, I'm just curious)
 
@Praxeolitic you'll be remembered when we clean-up: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/324071/578411
 
@user5389107 I think I saw it phrased well, where one user who had been negatively effected by what they felt was a strong sense of ... "not welcoming" ... They said, while it is political to some who view it from the outside, when it effects you every day it is no longer political, it is just your normal.
 
Mind you, I get your point here. But I think we have more pressing gender-discrimination problems than focusing on pronouns and language. Sadly, English has gender specific pronouns, which puts it in a more difficult position than some other languages like Japanese. Using male-related pronouns and words is simply too common now. A day will come when we finally will agree on using some less gender-specific wording, but I fear it is still distant.

I mean, were I live school teaches you that English uses male pronouns every time you are talking about a mixed gender group or someone you don't
 
@rene ha, so the hassle of creating a new tag is judgment from my peers, right? (that's an excellent motivation, I just want to make sure I understand)
 
So, that some people argue it was a purely political stance that was taken, in my opinion it was aimed at helping people who were otherwise feeling very helpless.
 
8:14 AM
@TravisJ Well yeah, but the overton window of acceptability in the US (where SE is based) is radically different then say in india (where a lot of SE users live) and both of these are different from say central europe
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body: where to buy Fashion Women Dresses with up to 75%off? by kellybam on chinese.SE
 
The problem here is what is automatic and uncontroversial for some (and comes across as company stance since it was made in a blog post) is some deeply offensive and repugnant stuff for others
 
@Praxeolitic kind of, yes
 
@user5389107 I agree that there are a lot of different cultures here to consider. It is a tight line to walk.
 
The reason SE got such a diverse community to begin with is that it remained fiercely apolitical throughout
 
8:15 AM
thanks everyone, I'm checkout out for the night, farewell!
 
You saw the backlash to the trump order meta post - like it or not a sizable contingent of SE contributors are trump supporters and would maybe call you insane for concepts like chosen pronouns
 
@Praxeolitic Bye, good luck with your post :)
 
The reason this site works with such a diversity of opinion is because it doesn't usually come up
 
@user5389107 ...and then "Time to take a stand" happened
 
(they just mentioned that post)
> Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
That was my answer to that post.
You can see the rest here if you want.
 
8:18 AM
See if you approach it that way SE might tear itself apart at the seams
Unless you want to ideologically purge the site
 
And don't even mention the close war that took place on that post
 
I see what you are saying, but I disagree because you can have different ideologies in one place work in harmony so long as one of them isn't advocating that some large group of other ideologies cannot remain.
 
On a side note, I'm on my way to hitting the rep cap again for reporting a typo in the Terms of Service
 
This is already the existing mindset. So, do you purge the site of the one arguing against anything but itself? Or let that one remain and watch it tear the site apart on its own?
 
hey
I have taken a stance that the main point of that blog is "That's not the community fault. That's the company fault". I'll still try improving my behavior whenever I can, but other than that, there's nothing I can do except to wait until SE does implement something new...
 
8:23 AM
@TravisJ That is exactly what is happening right now, or at least it's percieved that way
There's a sizable contingent of users who believe the action recommended in the blog post to be left wing narrative controlling extremism. There's also a sizeable contingent (judging by upvotes) that think even making that insinuation (that SO is less welcoming to say people of color) is racist in itself. We're seeing an ideological war play out on meta, and the only reason it hasn't degenerated to /r/politics niveau yet is the strict "be nice" policing on meta comments and posts
 
@user5389107 Is it though? Or is it that a group of users has felt so affronted for so long that there is finally some push back? And the offending group is suddenly on the defensive, claiming to be the victim.
 
@TravisJ Welcome to US politics in the last couple of years
 
I think it hasn't devolved is because a lot of the bad actors are being suspended.
 
My analysis is completly seperated from my own opinion (i'm leaning towards supporting the efforts)
 
hey
Oh well, I hope this debate will end soon in this chat room... need more beers and waffles
 
8:28 AM
@TravisJ That does nothing to improve SE's perception among the affected user group, to the contrary
 
Hey, I was on radioactive super cats...
@user5389107 Wait, which group?
 
@TravisJ Both. It's probably not very welcoming to people who are marginalized (they do feel that way, whether they are or not) to see that meta is discussing with prevailing consensus that this was a mistake and a lot of people openly in vehement disagreement with any action
As well as people who feel like this is injecting opposition politics in their apolitical site
 
I guess. I am still glad some of those users are suspended.
I have tried not to openly be too vocal about it. I agree with the blog, and I don't need to get all lightning rod about it from a bunch of people who are experts in being offensive while bending the rules.
In all honesty, a lot of the reason I flat out did not contribute to the site for several months was because of that type of "unwelcoming", and I am not a minority, and do not even post low quality material.
For a while it was impossible to answer a question that wasn't research paper standards due to the pushback from people arguing that answering was just making the site a terrible place.
Let alone post a question which may have been in the mediocre range, I am sure.
 
@TravisJ I get that feeling stronger in some tags rather then others
I've shifted to sql from C recently because it feels like no matter how hard I try in C there's always some little detail I miss that someone will inevitably snark at me about
 
I am fine with being corrected, even for small details. But to be flat out told that I shouldn't answer because of the question itself was where it really got excessive.
 
user310756
@TheLittleNaruto nope it was a news article. I haven't seen a kangaroo in a while, there were a lot of wallabies where my horses used to be
 
Hey @Yve long time no see in chat :D
 
user310756
@user5389107 well it's not just the kick, they have claws that can also do harm
 
You promised foal pics
 
user310756
@user5389107 Mags????
 
user310756
8:43 AM
is it you???
 
t'is
 
user310756
Yay!! I posted a comment under one of your comments (stalked you on MSO).. Missed you!!
 
I've been in the tavern the past couple of days
Turns out staying away from this site is almost impossible
 
user310756
Yes - she still hasn't foaled... can you please change you username.. even to "Waiting For Foal Pics"?
 
There's a 30d timer on that
 
user310756
8:44 AM
@user5389107 yes yes I understand.. it's a hard habit to kick. Sometimes having a break is good
 
user310756
ooh I can change it on SO for you
 
user310756
A mod did that for me once on SO
 
It's a me problem tbh, I just need to get my social anxiety under control
 
lol
@user5389107 :(
 
user310756
@user5389107 you and me and a lot of others too!
 
8:45 AM
Social anxiety sucks
 
user310756
yep ti does
 
user310756
 
It's not anyone's fault but my own that I have a tendency to see everything in the worst possible light and am on edge all the time that I mess something up
More perception then reality and I need to work on that
 
user310756
8:46 AM
these are two little foals I bought - brumby foals from the wild. The tiny weeny one hiding behind his sister is called Padawan
 
user310756
@user5389107 hey we all have issues and you're not on your pat malone on that one
 
user310756
== List of Australian rhyming slang == The following is a list of well-known (to Australians) examples of Australian rhyming slang. It is not intended to be comprehensive. Many terms are based on popular culture, and so the cant is constantly updated according to changing fashions. The terms listed here are well-established. 3 KZ - "head", after former Melbourne AM radio station (now Gold-FM) Adrian Quist - "pissed", i.e. drunk. Now rarely heard. Named after a well-known Australian tennis player of the 1930s and 1940s. Usually replaced now by "Olivers", from Oliver Twist. Al Capone - "tele...
 
@YvetteColomb awwww
 
user310756
> Pat (Malone) - "own" (alone), as in "left him on his Pat Malone".
 
user310756
@PrincessLuna ikr - so darn cute
 
user310756
8:49 AM
 
user310756
Padawan
 
user310756
he's a wee brumby foal
 
@YvetteColomb awwwwwwww, so cute <3
 
user310756
he is
 
user310756
he reminds me of a baby deer
 
user202362
8:58 AM
mule you mean :p
 
user202362
@YvetteColomb also hey
 
you're mean to say that's a mule
:P
 
user202362
:x
 
omg my dog just did the coup de grâce to my bath mat and part of the bricks outside =/
it took me 20 minutes to clean
@user5389107 - To note though, I wasn't talking about you with regards to the suspensions earlier. Sorry if that was how it came across. It is really only two users, and they were unrelated to chat.
 
@TravisJ This is one of the comment threads I was referring to: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/366676
 
9:08 AM
@Praxeolitic there might be meta posts. And removing tags is actually a lot of work
 
If that's not a political war I don't know what is
 
@Derpy I have this theory of chat moderation
 
user202362
If SE keeps on doing something superfluous as this, no wonder their staff are overworked
 
user202362
it's all about efficiency
 
It might be politer in tone but it'S every bit as caustic and the people are every bit as much talking at each other rather then to each other as a reddit post
 
9:10 AM
Starting with the idea that chat's a living medium and that moderation has to be an ongoing process, involving the users.
@TelKitty Not really helpful
 
user202362
how so?
 
@user5389107 Yeah, I have read that. I mean, I don't know if you see me on mSO, but I kind of read all of it. Even all of that.
 
@TelKitty well, you're making a sweeping statement, both in terms of what the staff are doing, and in terms of overall direction
 
@TravisJ If you have I can't understand you disagreeing with my asessment that there's a political war going on on meta
Maybe you weren't and I misread that ...
 
And yes, there's probably a lot of issues with how things are running now
but folks have been bringing up very specific concerns
 
9:15 AM
@user5389107 I wasn't disagreeing that there is a lot of upheaval. I am not sure I would call it a political war, but I wasn't disagreeing.
 
@Shog9 @TimPost Maybe it's time to lift @Shadow's chat suspension? He's apologized on Twitter to April and he's very helpful.
 
@TravisJ people are emotional
 
Yup
 
And its really really really tempting to just circle the wagons.
 
@aprilwensel [cont] As you can see from the swift action taken by Stack Exchange staff (they banned the two offenders from chat, I'm one of them) and made it crystal clear such things are not proper, and I totally accept this. Chat culture in SE is the best I've ever seen. Thanks for reading.
 
9:16 AM
I have a fear that this will just end in a mass exodus or even more caustic behavior or both
 
user202362
@JourneymanGeek Fair enough ... if SE keeps on making moves such as the latest superfluous blog about racist/sexist and enforcing stricter chat rules that's likely to drive out some of the most knowledgeable and most help users, then no wonder staff are over worked and SE might be going backwards.
 
@ShadowWizard78 Thank you for the apology. What I'd really like to see in the world is women being treated as equals, not as objects to be joked about. I hope that even in private conversations between friends, men will be inspired to use more respectful language when discussing women or men.
 
user310756
@user5389107 yep she is.
 
@TelKitty SE's survived a few.
 
I agree with this, and that's something we should be doing IRL too, not just online. https://twitter.com/aprilwensel/status/991768083265081344
 
9:16 AM
But but
We forgot rule 0
 
Someone said I "make a blatant mockery of the issues facing SE overall", someone I value and appreciate. This made me think, and realize I did that as defense mechanism, instead of dwelling in sadness or wave angry fists. What's better? No idea. Night all.
 
Don't be a dick.
 
(Okay, I'm a bit conflicted there)
@JourneymanGeek You could "reduce the suspension to time served"
 
user202362
I hope you get suspended for spam chat with things others don't want to read
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I couldn't
 
9:17 AM
@TelKitty Me?
@JourneymanGeek I know, that's why I pinged mods
 
and really this is a conversation Shadowwizard needs to have the the CMs if he wants it reduced
 
user202362
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yes you
 
user202362
don't spam
 
I felt it was all relevant to the discussion here
 
I didn't say it should be reduced. I said maybe it's time to lift it.
 
9:19 AM
@TelKitty ehhh. He has a right to an opinion. Even if its 180 degrees from what it was before I took a nap. As long as he dosen't keep annoying folks about it...
 
I didn't find it spammy. It seemed relevantish and limited in scope.
 
@JourneymanGeek It's not 180 degrees. In fact, I apologized to him in his Den.
 
It's not like it was an animated gif
 
I still stand by the fact that it was blatantly objectifying
 
Hey now, what's this business with people having opinions of their own in here all of a sudden? You all know we simply praise the word of Shog and that's it.
 
9:21 AM
;p
 
tbh my opinions shift all the time
 
hides the wheel of blame
 
I'm not an expert in most things so there's a metric ton that I don't know about
 
@Bart I've been the only one freely expressing disagreements with the system here before April's Medium post came out.
 
user202362
but it's not chat users opinion, twitter dumps are never original ...
 
9:23 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog "the only one"
ever?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm frankly out of the loop on a whole lot of that given that my attention was consumed by trying to release a game. So don't take whatever I say too seriously (good tip in general)
 
user202362
@Bart lucky you
 
@Bart heh. Not much to really miss, unless you have a large stock of popcorn for drama :(
 
@Bart So you still stand by this message you sent me back in '13?
Nov 8 '13 at 20:46, by Bart
@gparyani top tip: 95% of what I say is nonsense. The other 5% is suspicious.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog absolutely
 
user202362
9:26 AM
@TravisJ what about animated gifs?
 
user310756
@TelKitty hi how's your chikens aka roosters? :)
 
@TelKitty I was saying that animated gifs can be really annoying. Especially a group of them all at once.
 
hey
animated gifs of chikens aka roosters!?
 
user202362
@YvetteColomb they are great - growing bigger every day ... and always hungry
 
user202362
@TravisJ I agree, that's why I space them out
 
9:29 AM
@TelKitty mini raptors in training
 
user310756
@user5389107 yes! @TelKitty he knows our plan!
 
chicken are terrifying.
 
user image
3
 
user202362
cute overflow!!!
 
:D
 
user359686
9:33 AM
@PrincessLuna Learned.
 
user202362
@user5389107 like raptor, but with wings ... that's how @yvette & I are planning to conquer the woXXX
 
^ ban pls. Plotting world domination.
 
hey
@TravisJ suddenly my mind feel refreshed!!!
 
user310756
@TelKitty shuuuuush they can hear you!
 
hey
huh, you don't know that if you prefix the message with "@hey", it will become a private chat?
 
9:37 AM
what if I suffix my message with @hey
 
hey
@TravisJ it will be transmitted to everyone in the world (yes, even without internet) D:
 
Wow, what a tool. The public broadcasting system should start using that!
 
user310756
@hey hey that's a great idea
 
user310756
@TravisJ it gets rocketed out to space beacon style
 
user310756
@TravisJ lolol
 
9:42 AM
hah finally we found a way to move something faster than the speed of light
It was right there this whole time
 
hey
Chooks. It's always chooks.
 
This clearly confirms there is a conspiracy too @TravisJ!
 
hey
@TelKitty it's hard to choose between the correct word (it's dangerously ambiguous), so I chose "worry"
 
user202362
there are a few words you can choose from
 
@PrincessLuna I agree. The sky is literally falling.
What have we done?!
 
user202362
9:46 AM
it's called rain
 
Oh, phew.
 
Stuff like this I can see people balk at :
Would you share the final implementation here honey? Thanks — Alberto Nov 24 '14 at 16:43
 
user310756
@TelKitty ok when you are better, can you visit? we are running bets on when this foal will come. Once it's born i can also get to Sydney again...
 
Bye for now o/
 
user202362
@YvetteColomb Sure, in the next few week, will send you sms to find out when you are available and confirm time. So this foal is still not quite due yet?
 
user310756
9:54 AM
@TravisJ bye nicce to see you
 
user310756
@TelKitty I could be wrong, but I reckon another two weeks, though she could surprise us. Her udder and teats have not changed
 
user202362
@YvetteColomb It's good for you though ... since the mother was under nourished, the foal probably was too ... it's better to have a health foal than one that's delivered on time but under nourished - take much more effort to looking after a weak new born baby horse.
 
user202362
@user5389107 maybe you should get a healthy hobby
 
user310756
10:10 AM
@TelKitty yep agree
 
10:53 AM
1.95 horse
 
hey
2.5 men?
 
user202362
3486432423 chooks
 
I wonder what the business with the new arbitration clause is though
Seems awfully anti consumer for a company like SE to do
 
user202362
are we talking about GDPR?
 
New TOS
Aside from if it's legal or not (I'm not a lawyer so I won't really go into that) I think it's a pretty unethical business practice
Like JP Morgan Chase tier unethical
 
user310756
10:59 AM
@user5389107 hmm or even more?
 
user202362
why do I think you might be a sock @user5389107
 
@TelKitty of whom?
 
user202362
someone who has similar ... almost the exact same concern as you
 
idk what to tell you i've been here for over two years
 
hey
@TelKitty no one that I could think about, at least not here
 
11:05 AM
I recently did change my name but I'm not a sock
 
Give or take the weather you have two socks.
 
hey
You have two socks. The government will take everyone's one sock and use them for socks investment.
... that doesn't smell good...
 
It was smelly from the start
 
@hey What if someone has 5 socks through a SOCKS5 proxy? :p
 
11:33 AM
@JohnDvorak and that's sadly my fear too.
 
11:46 AM
@Derpy Naw, they were already happening
 
@JourneymanGeek I still stand my claim that I had reported both via flagging and mail contact us option that offensive message another room without any feedback or action taken. The day I linked it on the chat room - boom, destroyed.
I am NOT saying that they are doing this on purpose. I am saying that sadly they have so much work on their hand that they only manage to follow up on the more visible cases.
Probably, in six to eight time-units, someone will finally get to my original mail report (from I think 2 years ago) and notice the offending post has been deleted in the meantime.
I can't blame them. They indeed seem to lack manpower - too few employees, to much work.
 
@Derpy I also raised a custom mod flag in chat.mse yesterday (on your post linking it) so it might just be shog came across it organically in his cleanup effort
 
user202362
@Derpy thus, need to determine what's really important and what's superfluous
 
You're probably right - they'd most likely need twice the staff to put a dent in the amount of work piled on right now and are just spread too thin
 
user202362
working smarter, not harder
 
11:54 AM
If you have a better idea on how to handle all of it I'm sure they'd look forward to your application, no?
 
@Derpy that's a different problem, and one we keep bringing up
 
user202362
@user5389107 why are you so sure of that?
 
If you have a workable concept to reduce workload significantly without sacrificing any of the goals of the organization while staying within budget and external constraints you'd be quite an exceptional employee
Also that was more of a rhetorical device to say "it's complicated in ways that aren't apparent to us most likely"
 
user202362
I hardly ever worked very hard and yet I get above average marks and have more than average asset ... only saying from experience
 
@user5389107 not all jobs can be streamlined tho
 
user202362
12:02 PM
I also had failed venture ... not saying I never wasted any effort - it's all part of learning I guess
 
the problem with community management in general is...
you're dealing with people
 
@JourneymanGeek That was entirely my point, but maybe I didn't bring it across well
 
and its kinda hard to streamline human interactions
 
user202362
Laissez-faire (; French: [lɛsefɛʁ] ( listen); from French: laissez faire, lit. 'let do') is an economic system in which transactions between private parties are free from government intervention such as regulation, privileges, tariffs and subsidies. The phrase laissez-faire is part of a larger French phrase and basically translates to "let (it/them) do", but in this context usually means to "let go". == Etymology and usage == The term laissez faire likely originated in a meeting that took place around 1681 between powerful French Controller-General of Finances Jean-Baptiste Colbert and a group...
 
community management isn't something you can min-max
 
user202362
12:03 PM
talking about people, economics is all about people ... take less action is actually very popular when it comes to it
 
Humans suck ... but we have nothing better at this point.
 
or at least, it's not apparent to me how you could do that
You can minmax a technical job with a clearly defined deliverable and goal, but community management is as much about perception as it is about action, from what I understand
and human perception is fickle and unreliable and no so easily predictable
 
user202362
communism is all about control, look how successful that is
 
To a certain extent you can farm out some of the workload to the community
To a point
 
user202362
also communism started with a very good goal, but it's against human nature
 
12:09 PM
Alex Miller on May 03, 2018

It’s here. After months of designing, building, testing, and beta-ing, we’re happy to announce that as of today, Stack Overflow for Teams has launched and is available to everyone!

It often feels like developers have to know everything, constantly juggling dozens of tools, languages, libraries, and frameworks. To do this, they have to be able to quickly find the information they need in order to get back to writing software. When that information is public, all you need is a a quick search on Stack Overflow to turn up an answer and be on your way. But when that information is internal and private, it’s a maze of stale wikis and lost emails. …

 
user202362
What SE is trying to do is a lot like communism - trying to bend human nature to achieve a great goal. It will just not work. You can put as much effort into it and the result might be worse than where you started.
 
@TelKitty Are you equating trying to cajole people into being nicer with communism?
 
And I hit the rep cap again!
 
user202362
so you reckon SE can make people nicer?
 
12:12 PM
hmm
"nice"? no
civil? Hopefully
 
user202362
yes, people can behave civil, they can be trained
 
@TelKitty I think it just might
Forcing people to be civil always until it becomes a habit
 
user202362
@user5389107 lemme guess, you have not graduated from uni
 
I have not
 
....
@TelKitty what does that have to do with anything?
....
oops
 
12:15 PM
I'm still employed as a professional software developer
 
user202362
@user5389107 forcing people to be civil, that's sounds like what government is doing to civilians in totalitarian dystopia sci-fis
 
Hey now, be civil.
 
I think you're overexaggerating people not being able to be unrespectful
 
user202362
@Bart civilly plotting world domination?
 
That could be a statement in your profile. "Civilly plotting world domination"
 
12:24 PM
but of course.
'We might be evil overlords but we are not barbarians. Or Uncouth.
 
user202362
what if in a heavy snow storm you see a pack of wolves coming at you, but they are actually huskies pulling a sled?
 
12:38 PM
@TelKitty we do not impersonate as huskies, and you won't see us coming. You'll only notice when we want you to :P
 
I wonder how teams will deal with people just sharing SO accounts across 10 accounts so they never have to pay extra
 
0
Q: Will current Teams users part of the private beta be grandfathered in to the current pricing? If so, for how long?

gparyaniNow that Stack Overflow for Teams has launched (as a paid service), what will happen to teams that are currently part of the private beta? Will they immediately have to start paying, or will those teams continue to be free? If so, for how long will they be free, before they have to start paying?

 
1:31 PM
one kid sick this morning, too much time to kill at home, someone know if smokey can run in windows?
 
@yagmoth555 technically it should but the few that tried gave up.
@yagmoth555 Also, note that running metasmoke on Windows is extremely difficult‌​.
 
@rene oh ok, thx for the info :) , will take less time to build a linux box then
 
hey
@TelKitty I guess you're too tired to be hallucinating, so you should sleep. Even if it's eventually a real pack of wolves, you still should sleep (play dead)
@user5389107 like free BitBucket? :D
 
@yagmoth555 could run it in a VM in theory
 
hey
oh, apparently SOfT is already pay-as-you-go, no free tier...
 
1:42 PM
Yeah but what stops a company with say 50 engineers from signing up for the 10$ a month plan and having employees share 10 accounts?
 
@yagmoth555 I linked you to metasmoke, running smoke detector seems much easier
 
hey
@user5389107 I'm thinking the same for BitBucker's free tier for 5 accounts...
like, we have been juggling accounts here...
 
@yagmoth555 "it can" but running MS on Windows is basically an exercise in self-torture
 
@yagmoth555 Install a Ubuntu VM (it's very easy)
 
the core critical functions require git access and creds, and a MS integration key.
And though I have a smokey which can technically run in Windows, it's run via an IDE - PyCharm - and I have dev access and integration keys with Metasmoke and also the git creds.
and that makes it a lot harder to run it properly.
... also the Windows git support in Smokey is basically a hackish approach to it with very fragile wrapper around Git for Windows which requires you to install/configure git.
 
hey
1:51 PM
probably would be... good(?) if Smokey also has a bare basic function without git access & MS integration, just scanning SE posts...
 
you can run it that way but you lose a majority of the Smokey functions
 
hey
welp, back to what I remembered about Smokey 2 years ago :)
 
I mean, I run TCOM (a specific instance of smokey named "The Call of Midnight") in dev mode without MS integration and without git integration sometimes, but that's rare.
 
hey
"Nostalgia version"... heh (not serious :)
 
@WELZ @JourneymanGeek thx, yes will do a small vm! got some azure credit left I think
 
2:01 PM
and heh
 
@rene cool! I though smokey was the friendly name for the smoke detector, didnt even knew more than one bot existed
 
I need to rebuild my old server
and decide if I want to keep it ;p
 
@JourneymanGeek you run what on it?
 
@yagmoth555 meta smoke is the central control this site while Smokey / Smoke detector is the actual bot that hooks up to Stack Exchange websockets and Chat rooms.
 
@yagmoth555 I used to run my webserver on it
currently the only active thing is my IRC bouncer, and I've not been on IRC in ... literally years
 
2:05 PM
@rene oh ok, I see the differance
 
I'm thinking of using it to test an alternate server config I want to try with ngnix units
 
2:25 PM
I currently run php-fpm with nginx
 
@JourneymanGeek which is the proper way to run PHP via NGINX
is the NGINX package maintainer for Ubuntu, alongside the rest of the server team
 
@ThomasWard ngnix units would potentially be slightly faster, and probably more elegant
also not just for PHP
 
potentially. that said "Unit" is its own component from NGINX
and not part of the built-in NGINX until you install NGINX Unit (unit.nginx.org/installation)
 
yup
but but
the php-fpm config works
and is very reliable
 
3:00 PM
morning
 
user359686
morning
 
4 messages moved to Chimney
 
evening
 
morning
 
user359686
morning
 
3:07 PM
Hola.
 
Aloha
 
hey
hey
 
Bonjour
 
//time internet
 
user359686
@PrincessLuna The datetime zone id 'internet' is not recognised
 
user359686
3:16 PM
@PrincessLuna Morning
 
3:28 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Do you know a mathematic bibliography website? by ladangvu on math.SE
 
hey
3:40 PM
waffles. I believe it has been caught by Smokey.
 
Anonymous
4:11 PM
Inspired by the code snippet Nick posted on Twitter yesterday (https://twitter.com/Nick_Craver/status/991862146882592768), here's a minor self-XSS in teams registration:

steps:
1. navigate to https://stackoverflow.com/teams/create?email=</script><script>alert(1)</script>
2. click "send verification"
3. dismiss the error.
4. navigate to https://stackoverflow.com/teams/create
5. behold an evil alert dialog
6. also the page is now broken and you can't register for teams.
 
Anonymous
(I think it's only self-XSS (injection requires fkey) so it's not very dangerous.)
 
Anonymous
Consider just making your own safe micro-templating with template strings, like by modifying this code (public domain copy-paste-safe):
 
Anonymous
const escapeHtml = text => {
    return String(text)
      .replace(/&/g, '&amp;')
      .replace(/</g, '&lt;')
      .replace(/>/g, '&gt;')
      .replace(/"/g, '&quot;')
      .replace(/'/g, '&#39;');
};

/**
 * A template string tag function for HTML. All interpolated values will be
 * escaped unless they are already HTMLStrings. Returns an HTMLString object,
 * whose raw value is available by .toString().
 */
const HTML = function(statics, var_dynamics) {
  const dynamics = Array.from(arguments).slice(1);
 
Anonymous
If you rely on developers manually calling escape every time it's necessary, you are engineering vulnerabilities.
 
Obligatory xkcd:
 
4:32 PM
@user1114 are you nesting templates there?
 
Anonymous
@Shog9 It's supported, because if you don't support it users will be more tempted to concatenate strings.
 
that's pretty cool
was that always supported?
 
Anonymous
This has been supported since ES6 stuff started landing in major browsers a few years ago.
 
that's pretty slick. I may steal it.
not for... Stack Overflow, but, y'know, stuff.
like the chat monitoring script you broke with that weird room of yours.
 
Anonymous
The version of this I actually use for my projects is more complicated, to support async values/streams of values, incremental rendering and server-side pre-rendering, but for the simple case it's nice to have a single page of logic anybody can read, instead of some magic elaborate template system few people understand.
 
Anonymous
4:37 PM
JavaScript has started to not suck. :)
 
stackoverflow.blog down for anyone else?
 
@Jhoverit No
 
My work must've blocked it as hate speech or something lmao
 
@user1114 I've been using this one, since it performed the best in testing - but I last tested before templates were widely supported, so more'n happy to give it another look.
 

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