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Today's Listening | Electro / Dubstep (Mixsets Day 6)
@JanDvorak That particular thread is just such a perfect example of everything we're trying not to be.
First post on page 2:
> how do i fix.i tryed many times please help me
A little further down:
> Omg i got the same problem and i cant update anymore im sooo confuzed
@TRiGisTimothyRichardGreen 25 pages of me-too's
12:33 PM
page 25: people suggesting alternate solutions
@JanDvorak Skype on Linux is a usability nightmare. I'd like to wean our company off it.
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: FINDING THE CONSTANT TERM IN BINOMIAL EXPANSION on math.stackexchange.com
@TRiGisTimothyRichardGreen People should really not use any application that doesn't close when you click on the close button....
12:47 PM
Hm, chrome seems to be caching the site very aggressively now. Question / Answer / Comment votes I apply get reset when I F5 the page, comments disappear, that kind of thing. Unless I Ctrl-F5, then the page loads properly...
Q: Browser caching has become a bit too aggressive

Michael HamptonUntil a couple of hours ago, my usual experience on SE sites has been that the homepage, individual question pages, etc., would be revalidated and reloaded whenever I navigated around with Back and Forward buttons. As I understand it, this was accomplished with maxage=0 or something very similar,...

Does anyone else have the same issue?
Apparently, someone does :D
@Cerbrus haven't noticed such thing
12:49 PM
It should be fixed now, but I guess for pages that are already cached, you need to do a hard refresh to fix it.
let's see
Hm, maybe the page I just experienced it on was still cached
Seems to be okay now
I'm still amazed how much votes an answer on the meta can get o.O
12:59 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: ERRO NO CODIGO CLASSE FUNCTION CONEXAO on pt.stackoverflow.com
I nearly flagged that for non-english xD
@Cerbrus as não é claro o que você está perguntando?
Eh, si?
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: I WANNA KNOW MORE AND TECHNQUES OF MAKING A PROGRAM on programmers.stackexchange.com
1:14 PM
^crap, I guess
I want to know why his caps-lock key is already stuck...
@rene they don't have the caps lock key stuck, is their fingers in shift
so, please don't teach them the existence of caps lock @rene
1:32 PM
A long time ago I had a typewriter that would take A3 paper in landscape mode. The shift key lifted the whole inmense carriage. You had to use brute-force if you needed a capital letter....that should teach them...
That must've wrecked your fingers
@rene mechanical one? I learned to type on one of those, my poor 10-year-old pinky finger when I needed a capital letter :(
@Stijn yep...
@Cerbrus I was gonna take the JSFiddle code and edit it into the question, but it looks like JSFiddle is down...
1:38 PM
You 're too generous, @Stijn :)
I just received the strangest ban this morning. I got "Your review of: http://stackoverflow.com/review/late-answers/4701800 left spam on the site for more than 2 months!
Come back in 5 days to continue reviewing." How can 1 review from 3 months ago get me a ban and what was wrong with the answer in that particular case?
That answer was a walloftext weightloss spam message
@demongolem probably a moderator came across it and noticed that you had reviewed the answer.
Ok thanks if it was bad, I accept it. I am just a bit miffed that it happened 3 months later.
It was very blatant spam
1:45 PM
@demongolem he probably banned everyone that reviewed that
@Braiam there was only one
New Posts and Late Answers reviews are done by one single user.
@SmokeDetector Do you detect ![enter image description here][1]?
@TRiGisTimothyRichardGreen it only parse titles, not post body so not relevant
What are those SE Devs thinking? That I'm stupid or what? ;-)
1:59 PM
@rene lol
Q: Why would you give me the same review audit twice?

animusonI just passed another review audit (yay) but it was quite easy because I noticed it was the same one I had already passed yesterday... http://stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/1516065 http://stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/1524337 Should I be receiving the same audit multi...

but yeah, agree it should be changed
That ^^^^^^ got an upvote...
2:13 PM
2:24 PM
@Braiam what?
@Braiam Maybe see if Tim Post's answer gives a better direction....
I got a question which probably already is answered on some meta, but where I can't find the answer to. can I ask it here?
@NateKerkhofs you can try to
If I ask a question, and it gets a close vote for off-topic and a comment on why it is off-topic, am I allowed to delete the question myself and avoid receiving any negative results from the question or the potential closure of the question?
so basically self-moderation to keep the quality of the SE website up to standards
2:31 PM
@NateKerkhofs self deletion has heavier weight towards question ban
I've tried to search for the answer to this in the SO meta and the relevant SE meta, but I cannot find a real answer
but you can't fool the q-ban algorithm
You can self-delete if you don't have any upvoted answer yet
So that's actually counterproductive to defending your account? I didn't know that
it's better if you fix the question
What if I cannot fix the question?
2:34 PM
@NateKerkhofs as long as the question has no downvotes and is not yet closed then it's "safe" to delete it and it won't be used against you in the ban algorithm
because it's basically a legal question that I didn't realise yet
@NateKerkhofs then delete
@ShadowWizard are you sure?
@JanDvorak he's not Shog sock-puppet, so nope
And if it has received a close vote and a comment?
@JanDvorak 99% sure, yes. Can't see any reason why deleting non-negative scored, non-closed questions would contribute to a ban
but of course, I might be wrong so better ask @Shog9 if he's around (though it might be a secret)
2:36 PM
Because, wouldn't it be better to delete a question yourself when you are told it's off-topic, than to wait for it to be closed?
@NateKerkhofs it would
@NateKerkhofs the system expects you to fix the question, make it better, then it would get upvotes and be useful for others. You're "punished" for choosing the easy path, that's all.
So in summary: I created a question Workplace.SE, it turns out that it's a legal matter and thus off-topic for the SE. I got a close vote and a comment explaining why it's off-topic. I deleted it myself after I read the comment and realized it's indeed off-topic
was that the right thing to do?
Or should I just have waited for it to close by community order?
@NateKerkhofs it was
okay, one last question: does a close vote also apply an automatic downvote?
And if so, does that mean I ended up deleting a question with a downvote?
2:41 PM
@NateKerkhofs No, it does not
@NateKerkhofs no. Spam flags do.
And if the question got both of them (down vote and close vote), would it still be the right call to perform self-moderation?
because I understand that deleting a question with a down vote does result in a negative result on the ban algorithm
so do extra closevotes and downvotes you get otherwise
@JanDvorak ... and offensive
so the right call in that case is still to delete before it gets any worse?
2:45 PM
@NateKerkhofs You could wait till you have 3 downvotes and then delete it. That will give you the peer pressure badge...
but you better listen to Jan...
@rene that's an antibadge
@JanDvorak I'm still disapointed I didn't have that one yet..
@rene fail
@JanDvorak Yep, masssive :-)
2:48 PM
What's the difference between a normal badge and an antibadge?
Jun 2 at 9:26, by rene
I finally edited my worst scoring but still accepted answer into shape...no hope on a peer pressure badge for me...
@NateKerkhofs the latter conveys negative prestige
and what's prestige?
@NateKerkhofs assuming you speak Dutch: nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociale_status
2:53 PM
well, that was an unexpected answer
@Bart I'll have one...
It's not negative to the troll circles...
Is that form pf prestige quantified in SO? I mean, is there some kind of visible or invisible number that indicates your social status? It can't be the reputation, right? that's not affected by badges AFAIK
Or am I looking way too deep into your reply about negative prestige?
@NateKerkhofs yes you are :)
Jan meant by "antibadge" a badge that is awarded for things one might consider "bad", like deleting own downvoted post.
But it does have a value, like you said yourself, of teaching self moderation.
@ShadowWizard rule of thumb for deletions and q-bans: if you're only deleting your own work, they're neutral. If you delete someone's answer, they hurt.
3:03 PM
@Shog9 but I always thought deleting own downvoted posts contribute towards a ban, so I was wrong?
@ShadowWizard By "neutral", I mean they don't do anything to hurt or expunge your record; deleting a massively-upvoted post doesn't hurt the credit that post gave you, and deleting a massively downvoted one doesn't fix the damage - the system still knows you posted something good/bad, and will act accordingly.
@Shog9 Maybe say that on all the warnings about how deleting things will end in doom
@bjb568 what warnings?
@Shog9 oh, that makes more sense, thanks.
@Shog9 "deleting your question may get you a q-ban" and meta posts and whatever. It's deleting answers, not questions. Which makes more sense and is inline with the -1 rep for downvoting answers.
3:05 PM
@bjb568 the reason folks get warned about it is that some folks, upon encountering the q-ban, go through and delete all of their downvoted / closed stuff. This just ensures they can't dig their way out - they're effectively trapping themselves in amber.
@Shog9 usually there's no way to fix a downvoted post, though
@JanDvorak you'd be surprised
and deletion does prevent extra downvotes
@Shog9 I'd like to see a concrete example
@Shog9 Now if only there was a way to word it so that it's about deleting answers instead of questions…
@JanDvorak Depends what your questions are like. If they're not too bad, then you can probably fix them. But if you posted mostly off-topic posts and typos... sometimes it's easier to start over (which is why the anti-recidivism thingy was put in).
3:07 PM
@bjb568 still missing the point though, when it comes to advise for already banned users. Anything beyond "fix your shit" is a distraction.
@JanDvorak I agree. Most stuff from new users is crap. You can't edit it.
@JanDvorak i'll pull one off meta, one sec
@Shog9 I'm not already banned. Yet I see stuff in the help center and meta about deleting questions.
Uhh… Crap… my account merged again.
@bjb568 link?
@JanDvorak here's a reasonable example of someone who, let's face it, deserved that ban. And worked his way out of it, by editing his own posts and by editing and answering others' questions.
@Shog9 Still trying to do that on MSE… (this is 900 rep later from my stupid ages)
3:22 PM
@bjb568 just how many Q's you have deleted?
@Braiam Too many. (stupid system won't let me check)
@bjb568 nothing inaccurate there - it's mostly just saying the same thing I said above: deleting a question doesn't prevent the system from taking it into account when determining if you're banned.
@bjb568 no you're not. You haven't even checked to see if you're still banned in like 3 weeks.
@Shog9 Oh wat? Yay!!!!
Are you logging my attempts?
we log everything
We're watching you right now @bjb568.
3:29 PM
@Shog9 Oh, deleted, not deleting. Meh, I blame english for all confusion!
I have a better deal to present, I am using my young pet hen (5 weeks @ moment ... very little chance in turning into a rooster) to exchange a "stackoverflow best troll" shirt, what do you say?
t pot ... what would you say about my offer?
@Shog9 am I banned?
3:32 PM
@Braiam yeah, even that (well, not exactly that, but we know what was suggested and what was chosen)
@GnomeSlice are you?
you're only active on like 3 sites that even have q-bans, and you're not all that active there
@chmod711telkitty That's Shog's fighter pilot brother. sho-9g
3:36 PM
sh099 ... 5h099 4 elitism ...
54099 if you pushing it
What happened here? 10k? meta.askubuntu.com/questions/11690/…
> deleted by Luis Alvarado♦ 9 hours ago
@Braiam Why?
@bjb568 dunno
3:40 PM
it was unclear I think so...isn't it ?
@Braiam Huh… Did people agree with my answer (thru votes)?
@TGMCians A bit.
@bjb568 +1/-1
That's what it was 3 minutes after posting… Huh.
I can't undelete, but I flagged for undeletiong
@TGMCians it's his own question... just fyi.
3:45 PM
@AnnaLear haha, I knew :)
Oh @Anna, my account got remerged, and bugs are happening.
I'm not unmerging them again, sorry. Don't run two accounts that heavily share credentials/emails/etc.
@AnnaLear I don't really care if they're merged or not. But there are bugs.
Wanna be more specific?
3:47 PM
@SantaClaus pong
@AnnaLear Tags are borked, maybe just caching. Chat profile is not linked to regular profile.
@rene Thank You.
'clicking' with bad kerning looks like 'dicking'
@AnnaLear What credentials? Email is different. The only thing in common is that they are both Google accounts (and IP addresses, but don't rely on that).
@bjb568 You used both emails on both accounts at one point or another. There are multiple signs that point to accounts belonging to the same person... and, well. You're hitting all of them. If you want to keep two separate accounts, you gotta get more careful than this.
@bjb568 Tags should catch up... Which chat profile are you talking about? the one on chat.stackexchange.com?
3:51 PM
@Shog9 If you log everything, what time did I go to sleep last night?
@AnnaLear If I did, that's because of your borked login system. As I said, the openid adder thing is crap and should be nuked.
@SantaClaus :D
@AnnaLear chat.so. chat.se.
Ooh! My reviews are back!
3:53 PM
@Shog9 You're pretty good.
@bjb568 Looks okay on chat.so and chat.meta. Will fix chat.se, sec.
@Shog9 But I bet you can't tell me what I had for breakfast this morning.
^ :D
Is the websocket for new questions on SO tags broken or is it me?
@SantaClaus Eggs?
3:54 PM
@SantaClaus nothing?
@Shog9 Cookies. See, you don't log everything
There's nothing in the logs about your breakfast, so I've gotta assume you ate nothing.
@Shog9 So you think you're pretty good, but I bet you can't tell me what I'm going to have for lunch.
4:08 PM
Oh hay
I'm having a hard time trying to watch Tron legacy.... I... just... can't...
@SterlingArcher hay
How's it going?
@SterlingArcher Going where? I don't see it going anywhere…
@SantaClaus BLTs
4:12 PM
@Shog9 Wrong.
@bjb568 what?
@SterlingArcher What what?
in Secrets, 11 mins ago, by Santa Claus
I'm having cookies for lunch too.
@Shog9 I love BLTs
@bjb568 if that's a joke it's over my head, soo yeah.
Damn I can't type today
@SterlingArcher "What what?"? No, I was just "What?"ing about your "what?".
4:13 PM
@SterlingArcher I love B.
@bjb568 I love
@Braiam I
4:27 PM
Am I wrong to leave this closed? stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/5479075
Yes. It's a crap question. Just a code bug and "debug for me".
@bjb568 It was reopened.
@bjb568 Yes, despite my uncertainty with my last message, it was reopened.
Yes. ^^^
This one is soon to be reopened as well. I believe it should remain closed. stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/5479152
4:39 PM
PhD in nuclear physics? That's impressive
@SterlingArcher He's apparently also an expert with
string literals > nuclear physics obvi
@bjb568 I see you're noting the users who voted to reopen that.
4:42 PM
Flagged http://stackoverflow.com/users/680359/emsr :
Bad reviews. http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5461004 http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5455160 http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5455184 http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5448883 http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5448939 http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5448882 http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5479167 http://stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/5479075 http://stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/5479152
(is that enough links?)
moar links
@SterlingArcher Character limit
@SantaClaus you should totally drop that & have BLTs
@bjb568 I would've picked some less controversial reviews.
4:47 PM
@bjb568 this would be acceptable in UL stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5455184
@SantaClaus Meh, there must be something in there that everybody agrees with.
@Braiam Not here…
@Shog9 Tempting.
@Shog9 Ban the guy, since you're here.
@bjb568 He was here with BLTs, not a ban hammer.
@SantaClaus Close enough.
@SantaClaus DV and VLQ.
@bjb568 What if I said I was outta flags too?
@SantaClaus Flag more, it increases your flag rate-limit allocation thingy.
bjb how many flags do you have?
How do you flag so much? Can't you only flag comments and answers after 3k?
@SterlingArcher VLQ all the things!
@SterlingArcher 898 approved
4:59 PM
Seriously? I never know what is considered VLQ
This is a fantastic query for opinions. Also (sometimes) appropriate for VLQ. Free votes/flags! data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/revision/215520/281259/…

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