Tavern on the Meta

1:12 AM

@nicael :P

Scimonster

in V'dibarta Bam on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 28 secs ago, by Scimonster

Having retaken first place, i will go back to sleep.

Shokhet

@Scimonster star

:)

Gnight @all, I gotta go. Happy UTC New Years!

Night!

nicael

Night!

I am going to sleep for... a.... while.... hrrrrrpshhhh

meta.stackexchange.com/q/229764/237813 bounty end in 1 day

Y NO FIX?!?!??!?!?!?!

1:26 AM

> Also, why does this allow 3k chars?

rofl

> Last but not least is RSI. Your child will be typing. A lot. I took a summer in grad school to learn to touch-type in the colemak keyboard layout, and I'm very glad I did. Worth checking out.

Why doesn't know how to touch type?

Especially by pre-teen?

(regarding parenting.stackexchange.com/a/18156/9608 )

user259867

> the fundamentals of HTML, CSS, and JS, which I don't know anything about

user259867

^ ? Or perhaps you are referring to JS specifically.

user259867

As for Y NO FIX: Jin accepts only bacon, not imaginary internet points.

@Behaviour It's in 3rd person of a year ago myself. Written by an imaginary parent.

1:31 AM

2

@Behaviour How to convert?

Yay, DV rep reached on parenting.

Ooh, my question is on the hot list.

:D

As a teenage programmer myself (and used to be a professional one), I do not believe engaging with school professionals are directly helpful - being paid, they are of too far in skill level to interact with a student; and on the other hand, developers don't always have a bright view on each other, such as presented by this 9gag pic. Of course, this all depends on the child's technology level, but as one other than the child, it is best not to advise such imo. — Unihedro 4 mins ago

backseat commentary ^^

user259867

@bjb568 Which means that SO users are about to see it and recognize the name... :D

:P

The only people on SO that seem to recognize my name is the chat flamers.

@Unihedro - what language do you use? Because if it isn't Perl, I'll just ignore any developer related advice you have to give <g> — user3143 1 min ago

:|

1:46 AM

<g>?

user259867

^ here come SO users.

What's <g>?

@bjb568 It's an emoticon.

A flying seahorse with its eyes shaped to convey that they don't care, probably.

wat

oh

user259867

But honestly, keeping a blog to document the downvotes received....

Doorknob 冰

1:50 AM

@Behaviour ... doesn't he realize that the blog is just encouraging whoever the guy is to keep going? I bet he gets a fresh laugh every time he sees that blog update.

^^^

@Behaviour wat

Stupidz

There's also Project Euler among other sites that are noteworthy of mention. To answer your side question, I do not believe Perl is any effective language for the child - As noted, they are interested in web development. It may have been useful once, but few people use it now for decent reasons. I was professionally hired as a Java developer, and Java may be the future of mainstream industry for software development. I also deal with system administration and web design, although irrelevant. — Unihedro 8 secs ago

Even more backseat commentary ^^

@Unihedro lol Java future of development?! no.

Also: you never gave me that code.

@hichris123 Ask @DroidDev.

I think they do only Java at work, though it might have been SilentKiller instead.

Also, the keyword here is "may" - I said it to reflect that Perl will possibly never be used in mainstream development because it's not practical for web designers. Have you seen Perl being used in applets?

1:55 AM

On the topic of languages, the worst is probably PHP. PHP is awful. It is unlike other languages so it's unfit as a starting language. It's also awful as a language in general. I would recommend C-like languages. Swift seems pretty good. — bjb568 8 secs ago

Some backseat commentary of my own ^

Java sucks. PHP is the worst. But it doesn't change that Java has a decent ecosystem, and it's not a sinking ship - JRuby builds on it. JPython builds on it. Grappa runs on it. Communities fork and reuse it. O-T is made out of JDK.

user259867

@CoderTao It's starting to not work now. What do? — Joe Z. 26 mins ago

oh god... I have pity for that guy @uni, the one of the blog and kids

... you still didn't give me that code @uni! :P

@Braiam ??

@hichris123 You want the binaries? The source is a dialect though.

1:58 AM

@Unihedro I think everyone wants to slice every Java applet up sooo................................

@Unihedro I dunno, whatever I asked for a couple months ago. :P

@Unihedro coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers

@Braiam Oh, I link to that blog post pretty frequently, it's enlightening.

> 'Yes, give me the office of the President of the United States.... NO, I WILL NOT HOLD. This is an emergency.... Hello, Mister President, I'm afraid I have some bad news. I've just been informed that The Internet is not working.'

> This one's tricky. iOS is a lost cause, unless you jail-break, and Android isn't much better. I use Ubuntu-Touch, and it has possibilities. At least you feel like the mobile phone is yours. Okay, so I can't use 3G, it crashes when I try to make phone calls and the device runs so hot that when in my jacket pocket it seconds as an excellent nipple-warmer, but I can see the potential.

user259867

Java applets were fun back in the days when browsers wanted to run them...

@bjb568 ಠ_ಠ

2:02 AM

> My first PC was an ESCOM P100 with Windows 3.1

HA! I used 3.11

Ha! I used XP.

@Unihedro It is indeed.

I would play around with green X and blue W…

Those happy days…

I filled up whole spreadsheets with multiplication!

btw @Unihedro I disagree completely with you re going to a professional. You can learn so much if you get someone who is willing to work with you. But you have to find the right person.

Up to 65536!

2:04 AM

@Braiam 95 for me.

@hichris123 I disagree with your premise. You're being optimistic, but professionals will never be a good person technology-wise.

@Unihedro I disagree -- wait what?

@hichris123 Are you going to find that person at a school?

@hichris123 I disagree with your premise that a school-hired professional will ever be a right person to talk to in terms of learning anything technology-wise. There you go, I hope it's clearer now.

@bjb568 Probably not.

@Unihedro Okay, agree with that.

Unless school == college.

2:05 AM

Well, there you go.

@hichris123 We're talking middle and high school.

@hichris123 "child" implies < teenager

@bjb568 Right, but usually you have a community college around too.

Some prof's there might be willing to help. shrugs

@Unihedro Yes, and see tags.

^ @Uni

Even in college, you have to be really lucky for that.

2:06 AM

@Unihedro agree

@hichris123 Yeah, if you're lucky. I would rather join a SO chat room though. Far more productive than trying luck on some random person irl and having to socialize.

It's much easier to find people online.

@Unihedro Perhaps. But 1-1 contact in person is always going to be better than over the internet.

@hichris123 My point is that it's hard to find the kind of professors who could teach you something. There are simply too many fields within computer science that it makes me shiver just thinking about it.

@hichris123 Why do you say that?

2:09 AM

I care zero about parsing theory, to begin with. And concrete-abstract stuff makes me feel dizzy.

I don't think most of the CS stuff actually has real-world applications.

And there's always the kind of professionals who fake to stay wise.

"Yeah, to position you must use a table!"

Just my two cents, don't take it personally.

codepen.io/zachernuk/pen/ogYgLV kewl

OMG that's so sick!

@bjb568 ... because it's so much easier to talk than to type.

2:15 AM

@hichris123 … how?

@hichris123 Well, skype with someone then.

You can use dictation if you can't type.

But I don't see how talking can ever be faster than typing.

If it's because you have "real interaction" like emotions and cheering, that's fine - For some, it may be worth the time, but generally not really.

@bjb568 Because humans developed speech before typing?

@hichris123 So?

2:17 AM

Therefore we had more time to perfect it.

I dunno -- I'm making this stuff up.

Well...

I'm not seeing any logical conclusions from your argument.

It's simply logical that it's easier to teach someone something in person than over the internet.

1 min ago, by Unihedro

If it's because you have "real interaction" like emotions and cheering, that's fine - For some, it may be worth the time, but generally not really.

@hichris123 To you.

2:18 AM

@hichris123 It's subjective. It may be true for some, but not for us generally un-confrontational (confrontional?) geeks.

@Unihedro ... mm... I still doubt that.

Doubting is good, it makes you think more.

:D

@Unihedro or just stop thinking about the topic altogether because "it's complicated" :P

No. Thinking good!

2:23 AM

@Braiam I buy this one - "to (a) professional or not to (a) professional", is the question.

What if I press the b button?

up up down down left right left right b a

:)

rec-tool stackoverflow.com/questions/522040/…

rec-tool stackoverflow.com/questions/1577325/…

rec-tool stackoverflow.com/questions/1332265/…

rec-tool stackoverflow.com/questions/1322160/…

rec-tool stackoverflow.com/questions/1746210/…

rec-tool stackoverflow.com/questions/1657710/…

user259867

@JanDvorak this one takes a single downvote to get deleted. (No answer, ancient)

2:30 AM

POB stackoverflow.com/questions/4406755/…

rec-tool stackoverflow.com/questions/5048125/…

Closevotes

Post questions you want closed here with the same syntax as ex...

(rec tool is OffTopic/16)

(POB is OpinionBased)

user259867

Let's see... Someone is going over the free tag, removing it from posts. This bumps ancient posts which -- surprise -- turn out to be recommendation requests. This is kind of... inefficient.

CV'd by the editor

@Behaviour I wonder if "free" as tag is really necessary...

is something doomed to be misused anyways

Oh.

I just realized.

Laugh at me, then. :P

2:34 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

How would it make a difference, though?

Why shouldn't I edit closeworthy questions as part of a burnination process?

@JanDvorak nothing

ignore it

:2853417 umm.... a tag which only serves to close questions is far off the main purpose of tags

user259867

> free is a function to deallocate memory obtained from malloc and other functions in C. Do not use this tag to refer to free software, mention that in the body of your question if relevant.

@Behaviour edit-pls

user259867

2:36 AM

I see; this is not burnination but tag cleanup. But it does have this weird side effect.

user259867

@JanDvorak Edit tag wiki? Not privileged enough.

user259867

In any case, not competent enough. :)

oh. I guess I should, then.

3

suggested

2:46 AM

!!/hats?

SmokeDetector

@Unihedro HATS ARE AWESOME. Winter Bash will end in 3 days, 21 hours, 14 minutes and 28 seconds. :(

dv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/522040/…

20k-only

@JanDvorak That was downvote -- two downvotes should get it roomba'd.

... or not.

oh.

2:49 AM

Nevermind then.

@JanDvorak It has upvoted answers. Didn't see that.

One more close vote: stackoverflow.com/questions/4406755/…

Originally when conventions were established, dv-pls was downvoting, and delv-pls was deletion; all of a sudden, dv-pls became deleting, and downv-pls became downvoting.

closed

user259867

@hichris123 Accepted answer prevents roomba in all circumstances. Shog was thinking of changing that, but not implemented yet.

@Behaviour Yeah, I didn't see the answers.

@Behaviour On the topic of preserving useful content, while some posts are actively viewed by googlers and actually helps a few, the argument of keeping the site clean and with a positive image was equally reasonable as well. Personally, I think posts should be locked more often.

Especially since Stack Overflow has such a long history.

user259867

3:00 AM

Locked post => hopelessly outdated info in N years

user259867

Locking works better for Math, actually.

ɥʇǝS

thankfully you can lock just the question.

@Behaviour One can still edit the answers. If no one edits them anymore, then obviously no one cares. Then someone should mod-flag or post on meta requesting deletion. That works. Nothing could go wrong with that.

ɥʇǝS

nothing?

user259867

famous last words

3:05 AM

@ɥʇǝS Nothing until anyone uses goto. Then a velociraptor jumps out of your bed and eats you.

ɥʇǝS

How did the velociraptor get our of prehistoric times? Did he use a goto too?

goto: 21st century

user259867

Remember to label code lines in multiples of 10, so that new lines can be inserted later if needed.

user259867

good times

Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2015

0

The dawn of a new year, 2015, now approaches, or has already approached, either way it means that it is now time to reset our Community Promotion Ads! What are Community Promotion Ads? Community Promotion Ads are community-vetted advertisements that will show up on the main site, in the right s...

discussion community-ads

Lynn Crumbling

@Behaviour multiples of 100 would allow for much more flexibility...

:)

3:14 AM

Just use version numbering

stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/6622519

user259867

@LynnCrumbling Only until you discover that your version of BASIC does not support label numbers over 9999...

Who needs 10 kLoC anyways?

user259867

@JanDvorak Perhaps you don't, but if you begin by labeling in multiples of 100, that limit becomes real.

Maybe I can turn it into a useful code practice?

user259867

The first time I heard that there are languages without labels and GOTO, I could not understand how it was even possible...

3:21 AM

pats @beh in the back

user259867

*on

no, in

Any goto spaghetti code can be 1:1 translated into a single for-switch statement that is just as unreadable.

you have a mess in your back from self-flagellation with all those goto

user259867

Keep your ungrammatical hands off my back. ಠ_ಠ

3:23 AM

*out of

Lynn Crumbling

@Behaviour I'm fairly certain that AppleSoft Basic (Apple //, circa '85) had a much higher limit than 9999. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't even limited to 99999.

and Jan strikes!

@JanDvorak send an email to the author of thc.org/root/phun/unmaintain.html

I believe you've outsmarted them.

user259867

@LynnCrumbling Such details varied wildly by version.

> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

3:27 AM

> Vaguely hint there is some subtle difference, where none exists. However, if there are two similar functions that have a crucial difference, always use the same word in describing both functions

> e.g. print to mean "write to a file", "put ink on paper" and "display on the screen"

My favourites are openParen = (slash + asterix) / equals; and "Use foreign language dictionaries as a source for variable names. For example, use the German punkt for point. Maintenance coders, without your firm grasp of German, will enjoy the multicultural experience of deciphering the meaning."

Indeed. openParen = (slash + asterix) / equals is genius

/. anyone?

The next one is briliant as well

3:53 AM

> For classic examples of this technique, consult the Sun AWT JavaDOC.

:-D

4:15 AM

@Sompuperoo ...I ...am ...not ...in ...your ...list :'(

New year in eastern coming soon.

Hello, people of the past

Hallo

Hi BJB

HALLO

reddit.com/r/im12andthisisfunny reddit.com/r/im13andthisisfunny reddit.com/r/im14andthisisfunny reddit.com/r/im15andthisisfunny :D

4:53 AM

My new year is coming up in 6 minutes.

Yay! welcome back @bjb568 :)

:D

Q: Which degree of professionalism should be expected for comments from elected mods?

1

I came across this question recently, and close voted as being unclear what you're asking of course. Though, the mod jumping in, gave a very unclear and unconstructive comment as "Use your fingers?" on the question. I don't think, that mod priviledges should allow to short cut closures, b...

discussion moderation moderator-abilities

^ minitech?

user259867

So, minitech. But dwelling on one comment that much is not particularly constructive either. Should have been a flag, not a meta thread.

New year!

<h1 id="countdown">Loading</h1>
<script>
	var countdown = document.getElementById('countdown');
	setInterval(function() {
		countdown.removeChild(countdown.firstChild);
		countdown.appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date('2015-01-01T05:00:00Z').getTime() - new Date().getTime()));
	}, 0);
</script>
<style>
	h1 { font-size: 800px }
</style>

user259867

5:00 AM

Happy Eastern Standard Year.

Change time zone as necessary. ^^

NOTICE NO JQUERY!!

@Behaviour Yay!

I NOTICED NO "HAPPY", ONLY "NEW YEAR!"

Not christmas. You can be sad now.

2 days ago, by Shogging through the snow

Don't smile, it's not Christmas

5:10 AM

Mood Gorning!

:D

MEEEEW

MEEW :D

@Unihedro Entirely Java and xml(for layout design). But, these days I am also developing an app in phonegap(javascript, html, css) you can make an app in it and port it to any device. For porting it in Android, I'll also need to do some native(Java) code.

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
	<head>
		<title>Newyear Countdown</title>
		<style>
			h1 {
				font: 25vw "Helvetica Neue";
				margin: 0;
			}
		</style>
	</head>
	<body>
		<h1 id="countdown">Loading</h1>
		<small id="timezone">Loading</small>
		<script>
			var countdown = document.getElementById('countdown'),
				timezoneText = document.getElementById('timezone'),
				timezone = -12;
			setInterval(function() {
				countdown.removeChild(countdown.firstChild);
				var text = new Date('2015-01-01T00:00:00Z').getTime() + 3600000 * timezone - new Date().getTime();

Improved!

Hm… I may as well post it on CR.

Lynn Crumbling

Happy new year!

user259867

@bjb568 On the first run, you are removing a child that doesn't exist.

5:22 AM

"Loading" text node

Don't you think I'd have already run it? :P

user259867

@bjb568 How is that a child of "countdown"?

Text nodes are children.

0

Q: New year countdown

<!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <title>Newyear Countdown</title> <style> h1 { font: 25vw "Helvetica Neue"; margin: 0; } </style> </head> <body> <h1 id="countdown">Loading</h1> <p id="timezone">...

javascript html

user259867

@bjb568 They are, but it's a child of <body>.

@bjb568 do they also review project structure there?

@DroidDev What's project structure?

5:25 AM

Work breakdown structure

A work breakdown structure (WBS), in project management and systems engineering, is a deliverable-oriented decomposition of a project into smaller components. A work breakdown structure element may be a product, data, service, or any combination thereof. A WBS also provides the necessary framework for detailed cost estimating and control along with providing guidance for schedule development and control. == Overview == WBS is a hierarchical and incremental decomposition of the project into phases, deliverables and work packages. It is a tree structure, which shows a subdivision of effort required...

@bjb568, okay, I will have to give you that one. PHP does name some things poorly. Not to help your argument, but PHP's standard functions also have some pretty annoying parameter specifications. For example, there are several search-like functions in PHP (i.e., needle-in-haystack) and unfortunately they often ask for parameters in different orders. Some of the PHP functions will ask for parameters as needle first, haystack second, while other functions will ask for the opposite. That can get rather annoying because you must check the manual in most of those cases. — Spencer Grant Doak 47 secs ago

@DroidDev I don't think so.

user259867

SPAM drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/142031/…

@bjb568 should I propose one on Area 51? I think it could be useful

programmers?

Sorta

user259867

There is Project Management

5:29 AM

@Behaviour that might do it, Thanks :)

woah! Github blocked in India!! Its the world's end...

wat

I don't have a clue what our government or IT wing is thinking, but something is definitely wrong...

user259867

Yeah.... I somehow suspect the decision pushed by some politicians who don't understand what Github is used for...

Can you proxy tho?

That's the Irony, the ones who control things have no knowledge about things. Its just like...I don't know what its like....I doubt I can even find a real world example for it...

5:42 AM

ND>choose hi this worky?

uh… no

@bjb568 Can't do it with companies. Next thing you know, my company is sacked, because I used a proxy to access my code on github

O_O

What's this, north korea? I thot you guys were civilized there! :P

user259867

So... if your project depends on github, do you get a vacation until it's unblocked? ;)

2