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1:00 PM
@GnomeSlice Thanks!
I think I must misunderstand how the ML spam-detector works, or rather, how the ML portion of it works.
When a posting is flagged as spam and deleted, it gets fed into the training engine.
This is to improve that engine.
It is therefore counterproductive to spam-flag things like wrong answers. Doing that is wrong for other reasons, too, of course.
However, when it comes to gibberish, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
One reason given for not using the spam flag on gibberish like “dfghioik';ojj[phkugiu werkfwkurgiureigorgiuuuuuuuuuuuuuuoiueghoreg” (that’s an actual real-life example) is that because spam-deleted postings are fed to the ML spam auto-detector for training, this would degrade the quality of its decisions. I don’t understand that; gibberish should be easy to detect, easy to train on, and desirable for auto-blocking.
Why would you not want to feed the ML Monster gibberish so that it can block gibberish?
If a developer or community manager could please provide some insight here, I would appreciate it.
I think I know the answer..
spam flags are only for promotional content
@Vogel612 Enlighten us!
or rather, blatant "buy this, it helpsz0r" sh*t.
everything else is NAA.
That is not an appealing answer; it is rather circular in fact.
1:11 PM
how so?
No, It's VLQ.
No, it's offensive / abusive
NAAs are for links that attempts to answer the question, but content outsourced.
6 abusive flags autonuke a post
@Unihedron that's VLQ...
1:12 PM
This does not address my question.
VLQ is for content with severe content problems that can't be salvaged by editing. Like gibberish.
I am aware of the current and rather strict definitions of these things.
I, uh... don't think we have an ML engine going through these at all.
@AnnaLear WHAT?!
the ML monster is supposed to block stuff that actually makes sense when read
1:13 PM
@AnnaLear Oh dear!
you kidding
I thought spam-flagged stuff (and only spam-flagged stuff) that gets deleted gets fed to an ML engine.
I... I don't know anymore... I'll quietly walk away...
Tim posted something about this rather recently.
Nice nom-de-plume he’s got there, too. :)
Let me find it.
I could be wrong, but as far as I know, spamram is mostly based on activity. There is another system that can block spam based on content, but even that's not automatically trained. I believe ML is the next step if we need it, but we're not google so we aren't writing a complex NLP type thing here. yet.
1:16 PM
A: Anti-spam: Blocking questions whose bodies end with a raw hyperlink

Tim PostWe've experimented with this sort of thing in the past, and it hasn't been very successful for any appreciable amount of time. This is for two reasons: We have to tell users why something can't be submitted, although we can be kind of vague as to what's wrong, to avoid users 'fixing' only the s...

Is the blue line in Tim’s graph posts that were auto-blocked?
in Unix and Linux on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 1 hour ago, by Braiam
Each time someone mistype kernel as kernal, I kill a kitten.
now, tell me how bad I am
What's a kernal?
@Braiam Each time someone misses an "s" at the end of a verb, a kitten cries.
@AnnaLear So you are saying that that particular form of auto-blocking is not the result of an ML-trained program?
1:18 PM
@tchrist Yeah
(shooks head in disbelief)
ponders suggesting @Uni should be holpen his head
(considers linking Dr. Edward Richthofen's Grammar N-word)
sees heads popping everywhere... scarry
1:21 PM
@Vogel612 That wouldn’t help. I happen to have a gold tag-badge for , you know. :)
Thanks for the information @AnnaLear. Sorry for the scream.
@tchrist I happens[sic.] to believe that grammar consists of more than single words.
Someone starred it though.
np np
Anna, could you safely reveal anything about the manual process by which spammage gets autoblocked without risking compromising that mechanism by divulging its behavior?
Because it seems to me that gibberish is something that could be autoblocked without too much trouble.
1:25 PM
I honestly don't know that much about it. It's fed by spam/offensive flags, user deletions, etc.
Fed to hamsters?
So something is fed to something. This makes sense.
@Bart No. A monkey
But I am surprised that this should include user deletions.
@Andy I should have known
1:26 PM
@tchrist You have to keep creating profiles to post, so most spammers cycle through unregistered profiles that can be destroyed and used as signal.
Gibberish is both easy and tricky at the same time - the actual number of gibberish posts compared to the overall amount of crap we block is relatively small (I think). At the same time, we have localization to worry about, sites where the majority of posts aren't in English, etc.
@AnnaLear Yes, that would be a very nice bit on the feature vector.
@tchrist A process I've seen happening is that when you post short answers or with many incorrectly backtick'd words, the system asks me to fill in a captcha.
But captchas aren't really that useful.
@Unihedron Oh, that’s me. :)
And “incorrectly backtick’d words” verges on the tautological. :)
well it's not a backtick....
because they look ``` ← like that.
aaand yet another markup "bug".. possibly.
@AnnaLear I was thinking about both those things. However, gibberish on an English-language site should be pretty easy if you base it on cluster-frequencies and word-length.
@Vogel612 I don’t comprendos you.
1:30 PM
@Vogel612 `; source `\``
You know how machine-generated passwords are poorly remembered if they do not look like they could be plausible English-language words.
` ``
(killing baby unicorns)
What do think is a problem with ˋbackticksˋ not formatting correctly?
@tchrist my own stupidity (proceeds to hit his head on the table)
So the better random password generators use EN CLP data when creating them.
@Vogel612 I fear I was too subtle. I stealthed you.
What do think is a problem with ˋbackticksˋ not formatting correctly?


What do think is a problem with \x{2CB}backticks\x{2CB} not formatting correctly?


What do think is a problem with \N{MODIFIER LETTER GRAVE ACCENT}backticks\N{MODIFIER LETTER GRAVE ACCENT} not formatting correctly?
1:34 PM
Or just `escape` them
2CB or not 2CB, that is the question.
@AnnaLear I think probably the most important thing I’m taking away from all this is that because the proportion of deleted posts that are just gibberish is so low compared with those that are not gibberish, that it is unlikely to be a worthwhile investment in developer time, and possibly even in CPU time.
@Vogel612 Only if your state requires that you annually declare and pay up any syntax due.
@tchrist Thread main threw OutOfMemoryException, see cause:
How dear the CPU-time would be I’m less clear on, but it’s still not much ! for the /dev/buck.
Aha! So this is where all the cool people hangout 😎
@Vogel612 Were I seeking awwwwws, I would post pickies of kitties.
1:41 PM
lol @skullpatrol I saw you in about every chat-room I frequent relatively consistently..
@tchrist Queue does not accept any further input. or should it be a PipeClosedException??
Did anybody else just hear a meow?
@tchrist At least not at this stage, yeah. Maybe later.
1:45 PM
@skullpatrol Welcome to the Tavern
Thank you :-)
The Tavern is exempt from stalkers looking at your other-room lists and following you thither — well, or hither in this case.
It’s an alternate universe.
yesterday, by SmokeDetector
[ Wisdom ] Shog is always watching you
On a higher dimension I hope :)
1:50 PM
@tchrist even across subdomains??
      From here, he can see at least three shoggoths. The intersections
      of their watered-milk bodies reflect the light in rainbow bands.
      The colorful fruiting stalks nod some fifteen feet in the air, swaying
      in a freshening breeze.

      From the greatest distance possible, Harding reaches out and prods
      the largest shoggoth with the flat top of his hammer. It does nothing
      in response. Not even a quiver.

      He calls out to the fisherman. “Do they ever do anything when they’re
I hate that it doesn’t do the whole thing.
Do I want to know what's a shoggoth?
@Unihedron Finally submitted the tag edit btw.
@Sam I saw, as you posted on the tavern :)
@Vogel612 “What kind of a fool would come poke one to find out?”
1:52 PM
Yeah, I didn't know if you were still active there.
@Sam Ding! ftw
Haha, I take dual monitors to my advantage. dw. :)
@Unihedron I’m not even sure if a duel is lawful without a monitor.
Screw dueling, let's go parse xhtml with regex.
Be careful: remember whom you’re addressing.
1:54 PM
I know, you're the person who posted about parsing HTML with regex, now try xHTML. :D
and he calleth upon the unspeakable horror from outside any dimension
@Unihedron All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
@Unihedron D̘̊͒͊oͥͩ̿͊̋̃nͭ'̌̂t̓̄ ̻̇́̎͐͌ͮ̍e͛̏͆̌ͩͮv̖̫̏̆e͌͐̅̏n ͗t̥͔̹r̂y
@Sam I can do whatsoever I should put my mind to, reges gratia.
the start wall has a different font?
2:00 PM
@Sam There is no try { }; there is only do { }.
@Braiam The starboard has the same face, but the points differ.
    [self thingThatDoesntExist];
@tchrist ^ valid Obj-C :P
@tchrist There is no Exception. There is only EffingExcuse.
do or do not, there is no try.
@Undo I lament to inform you that like St Dennis, I do not personally find C so holy objectionable as all that would entail.
@Unihedron Do not try to not try to do, only do to try to not try to do.
2:06 PM
@Sam (only )?do (?:not|to) (try to (?:not|do) ?)+
@Unihedron Naughty regex ninja, thy knows I not speaketh thy's secret art of Regex.
@Sam I see what you did there.
@Sam flags for unantiagrammaticalisticality
@Sam Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.
2:17 PM
@tchrist um. you definitely are a German. only we can combine words into arbitrarily long constructs.
@tchrist Googles what on earth that is...
in English Language & Usage on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jul 25 at 13:30, by RegDwigнt
I reject your premise that "English grammar doesn't allow for concatenating". The English mathematics professor is exactly the same as the Swedish matematikprofessor, and control flow graph visualization software is exactly the same as the German Kontrollflußgraphvisualisierungssoftware. Some languages opt for writing compounds as single words, others use whitespaces. But they are still compounds. Spoken language is primary, and orthography is a random approximation. We could start putting whitespaces before all suffixes, but that would not affect their function in the least. — RegDwigнt ♦ Nov 8 '12 at 10:25
@skullpatrol flag for offensive, as it's needlessly obfuscating against users of google chrome. (can't read it. Font missing) </joke>
@tchrist "unantiagrammaticalisticality".matches("*\w*") -> false
@Vogel612 Non sequitur.
not that this would be valid anywhere..
2:22 PM
@Vogel612 Illegal nonregex passed to regex compiler, core dumped.
@tchrist don't be such a killjoy ;)
macbook# perl -le 'print "Match unantiagrammaticalisticality =~ $_\t=> ", "unantiagrammaticalisticality" =~ $_ ? "Yippee" : "Nope" for qr/ \w /x, qr/^ \w $/x, qr/^ \w+ $/x'
Match unantiagrammaticalisticality =~ (?^x: \w )	=> Yippee
Match unantiagrammaticalisticality =~ (?^x:^ \w $)	=> Nope
Match unantiagrammaticalisticality =~ (?^x:^ \w+ $)	=> Yippee
looks for the Julie Andrews version
Why is there no way to query the API for answers to a set of questions, sorted by what question they are for? :-(
You can
2:36 PM
/questions/{ids} with a filter that includes question.answers
that doesn't even give me the answer IDs
oh, wait, is the answers field a new one?
@JanDvorak Try this
Is that new in 2.2? I haven't noticed this before
@JanDvorak I'm not positive
2:41 PM
The best part is that the page size derives from the question count rather than answer count.
The remaining question is - how much quota will it drain?
is there any chance requesting answer.link in the response will cost me quota points?
Q: Tag cleanup request: [24hour]

nishantjrFrom the 24hour tag wiki: 24hour is a term meaning "all day" or "continuous". It is based on the fact that there are 24 hours in a day. I don't think the tag serves a useful purpose. Questions tagged with it seem to relate to things like time formats, doing things every 24 hours, etc.

Do you think would be a good tag?
People didn't like the actions I took before, so I'm thinking of retagging them, but I don't want to anger them more.
@JanDvorak Using this filter: !b0OfNKs.B5-1L9 it doesn't look like adding the link adds an extra hit to the quota
(all I did was add the link to the answer)
Or would it just be better to burninate ?
@Andy nice. I'm actually wondering if I want the post IDs now that I can have links for free.
err... I do
@AstroCB synonymize that into [time]?
2:54 PM
@Unihedron Someone else is going to have to say something on the post before I do anything else. Every time I edit it, it gets another downvote.
should I reshape the new (for me), consistent with answers, question data format to the old one, or vice versa (more room for bugs, but cleaner end result)?
@Unihedron The tag is useless, so I'd prefer to burninate it, but I feel like that's taking the situation too much into my own hands without community consensus.
ok... time to refactor my old code
this api... actually... makes the data in the websocket kinda useless
@Unihedron You know what? They're already mad, so I burninated it/replaced it with if it wasn't already there.
3:04 PM
For everyone outside of the US, is just .
@AstroCB Offer waffles and free unicorn rides to calm them down.
@Sam That'll definitely work.
Hiya @Inf
Hiya @Uni
@InfiniteRecursion hiya.
3:08 PM
@Astro: You didn't even wait or 24-hours before acting on the 24-hour tag burination/retag
Hiya @Sam
Nice zalgo on the ★board @Sam
@InfiniteRecursion I took it to mean within 24-hours: it's good to be early.
@AstroCB To be honest, it just looks like one big mess. Did you retag any to ?
@InfiniteRecursion T͈̒̀͆h͓̭̋x͇̫ͭ̓
Community concensus on a burination takes time, atleast wait for a week, you can't burinate/retag within 23 hours of the OP posting the request
@Sam That's exactly what it is.
@JanDvorak What are you trying to do?
3:11 PM
@InfiniteRecursion I honestly was going to wait, but the problem was that both tags were such a mess that something had to be done to categorize them before someone took action. But apparently, people didn't like that.
A: SPAM deluge over at WebApps (and pretty much all over SE)

Jan Dvorakaug 19 - tex.se is under attack. Yes, this is a call to arms. Keep flagging the spam posts while you can, anywhere they go. As this seems much heavier than the initial attack, I will try to notify the tex mods as well. I have written a userscript for the network-wide real-time feed - just copy/p...

A: Tag cleanup request: [24hour]

AstroCBFor most people outside of the US, 24hour time is just time. So, I went through the 24hour tag and retagged all of its questions: some just needed time, some needed a combination of time and datetime-format, and some didn't need the tag at all. In fact, for many of the posts, the tag wasn't rele...

Now why did you burinate military-time without asking/informing anyone!
@JanDvorak Why is the web socket useless though? No quota on that.
@InfiniteRecursion It only had 3 questions before I moved questions there.
Alright: they can't blame me for this: someone burninated and moved them all to .
@nishantjr Someone else must have retagged them. It looks like they've been moved to continuous (which I'm not sure is the right choice). — AstroCB 1 min ago
3:15 PM
I hope that someone is not you.
@Andy it's great for finding questions, but it holds no data over what I can get from the API query. Sure, it's faster, but having the body is really handy.
@Unihedron If it were, I would be expecting mass-downvoting on the main site in a few minutes.
@JanDvorak You get some of the body. I don't remember exactly how much. Obviously, on long posts it's not enough though.
Yes, that's bad when users downvote on mainsite due to meta disagreement. Cupcake wrote a good post on MSO about that
@InfiniteRecursion Wow, that post is a mess.
3:19 PM
@Andy Also, the HTML is stripped down
Q: Stop mob-downvoting users on the main site for their actions there and their opinions on Meta

CupcakeI've seen a few users on Meta recently who appear to be getting lynch-mobbed on the site after either posting an unpopular opinion here, or being the subject of a post because of their actions. Example user 1 (let's call him Jim) Jim answered a Meta question like this: Stack Overflow is ful...

@JanDvorak @Andy If you're interested, I made a thing that can get the full body of every new question and answer on SE: github.com/KeyboardFire/Firefighter
If someone has time please flag this for off-topic stackoverflow.com/questions/25320499/…
@Doorknob How's it do with the quota limit?
@Unihedron Already flagginated.
3:21 PM
@Doorknob niiice. I guess that lets me tear out half of my script :-)
@Andy It ignores it. :P I figured 10000 / day would be enough, but it might not be. In that case, uhhhh... magic!
oh. Python.
@Sam Danks.
@AstroCB Are you sure someone retagged all posts to ?
@JanDvorak Yeah, it's Python. But you can edit the regexes, change the ChatExchange stuff to prints, and it'll probably work
3:23 PM
@Sam At least some of them. All of the questions that I left are gone and I saw one or two under .
@Doorknob I'm trying to read the source
Yes @AstroCB, it's a mess. Too much retagging/burinating within 23 hours of OP 's request
@Doorknob You can with smokedetector and it works.
'allo @bjb
3:24 PM
@Doorknob why don't you handle heartbeats correctly?
@JanDvorak K… As a gist?
@JanDvorak It's not exactly the cleanest code
@Sam Then, where'd they go?
@JanDvorak I may or may not have forgotten about those. You can pull request if you want, or just add an issue to the Github repo and I'll get to it when I have time
@AstroCB I'll have a look around...
3:25 PM
User could have just removed the tag from the posts without retagging with an alternate tag @AstroCB
@InfiniteRecursion True.
@Doorknob 'New user, link in post' Talk about false positives…
@bjb568 I know. That was kind of a halfhearted one. :P
I really have done basically no work on the regexes yet.
*reges :)
rex, reges
3:29 PM
’Ware the Apostrophic Jihad!
A: Tag cleanup request: [24hour]

AstroCBFor most people outside of the US, 24hour time is just time. So, I went through the 24hour tag and retagged most of its questions: some just needed time, some needed a combination of time and datetime-format, and some didn't need the tag at all. In fact, for many of the posts, the tag wasn't rel...

For clarity:
@InfiniteRecursion I'm not so sure with three questions. What's more drastic is that someone else burninated 24hour without posting here, on the actual post requesting that it be retagged. — AstroCB 12 mins ago
Good point:
I'm not sure i understand the purpose of tags. I assumed tags were to help people intereted in certain topics to favorite them, or to search using tags. I'm not sure someone would search using tags like 'continuous' or '24hour'. What exactly is the purpose of tags? — nishantjr 4 hours ago
@AstroCB Found the user, (s)he simply removed the tag + cleaned up the posts.
3:33 PM
@Sam It would have been nice for s/he to say that s/he did that on the post requesting that that be done.
@AstroCB Agreed.
@AstroCB: was just telling you that it's drastic to burinate/retag within hours of an request being made. @Sam once got into a similar situation, and he said if someone had just informed him in a comment, he would have stopped.
@InfiniteRecursion Ah, I see. Thanks, then, but it's too late for me to stop since the duty has already been done. I'll be more careful next time.
After @Sam's incident where he wrote a long story saying he isn't a troll, I generally inform vigilantes with comments.
@AstroCB: yes, you can't be stopped, but I informed you for future
> ...I'm not a rogue troll from the darkest depths of the Internet, bent on seeing the utter annihilation of SO...
3:39 PM
Yes @Sam, that one.
Yeah, I remember that.
I don't want @Astro to get into that situation, it's not a nice place to be in....
I can trust you guys aren't going to DV to oblivion the user if I post a link to their profile, right?
I'll back off, then.
I certainly won't.
I totally won't.
3:42 PM
Neither me
Tho I may look at reviews and flag for manual rev ban…
@bjb568 Right.
@bjb568 Right.
Dammit! Good reviews.
Yeah, shame (s)he didn't ask first though.
3:45 PM
This tag certainly needs some cleanup: stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/stackoverflow
@Sam Maybe s/he was trying to avoid the wrath of the people on that question.
@AstroCB I think @Unihedron posted something on meta about the tag.
Q: Rename the [stackoverflow] tag to [stack-overflow-exception]

metacubedCan we rename stackoverflow to stack-overflow-exception? It would clarify the intent of the tag and prevent confusion. The tag summary also indicates that such confusion is common: A stack overflow occurs when too much memory is used on the call stack. NOTE: Do not use this tag to refer to t...

Not @Unihedron, though.
Yes good reviews @Sam
3:48 PM
@InfiniteRecursion Why are you glaring at @bjb568?
I did nothing.
I am photogenic, so many of my pics on tavern recently :D
It's @metacubed.
@Unihedron Thats it, I knew it was someone from the tavern. Just couldn't remember who.
With bluefeet, zigi and now bjb ;P. 3 pics in 2 days...
@AstroCB: it's a cat! I am scared !!
3:53 PM
@InfiniteRecursion I thought you were supposed to be more scared of foxes.
Nice @Sam :) I will remember that next time
this pic is my fav though
yesterday, by Shadow Wizard
user image
@InfiniteRecursion sisters from a different mother
@bjb568 Still cross-domain errors.
Yes @iStimple :) And @Jan is our brother. The only bird with his head straight.
@cupcake what is the best query to use.. for you know
4:02 PM
@InfiniteRecursion Already 3 re-stars, must have something to do with your name.
@AstroCB Fix it!
wonders how @Bart will feel about her stars
@InfiniteRecursion @bart is star-sided (as in only can see his stars)
@AstroCB Should I feature-request an Access-Control-Allow-Origin of SO on C.MSE?
4:08 PM
@bjb568 You could, but it'll never get anywhere.
I google, I find!
A: Greasemonkey, Cross domain, jQuery, get() request failing with 405 "method not allowed"

Brock Adamsget() and other jQuery AJAX functions do not work cross-domain, by design. (It was/would-be a huge security hole, if they did.) Use GM_xmlhttpRequest() instead, it does allow cross-domain AJAX.

Good job! Here have cookie.
@bjb568 Exactly.
@bjb568 Why are you wrapping the userscript in <script> tags and appending it to the page when you could just run the code as part of the userscript?
It works fine that way.
// ==UserScript==
// @name         LQ button
// @author       bjb568
// @version      1.0.0
// @namespace    bjb568
// @description  Adds a LQ button
// @include      stackoverflow.com/questions*
// ==/UserScript==
	var parent = document.getElementsByClassName('post-menu')[0];
	var lsep = document.createElement('span');
	var a = document.createElement('a');
@AstroCB It didn't used to. For a pretty long time that was the way to do it
4:18 PM
@YiJiang Interesting.
@AstroCB It didn't work before… Whatever, works now.
Oh yeah, I can't get the fkey.
How to get fkey?
Wow. This is not even wrong: superuser.com/a/797483/176340
anyone know why this query only ever returns 1 row if any
@iStimple my hypothesis is the lack of actual exact duplicates
4:31 PM
DataCloneError: DOM Exception 25: An object could not be cloned.
@JanDvorak lol, next one I run I get 6 results
should I flag all 6 or just do 1 flag?
@iStimple one flag with a query link?
@bjb568 That works great for GET requests, but I can't get it to work with POST.
@AstroCB Same…
@bjb568 I think it's a Safari issue: what browser are you using?
4:37 PM
why was that starred?
@bjb568 Actually, it doesn't work: you were right. You have to append the script so that it has access to the StackExchange object.
@AstroCB Safari.
@AstroCB No. You can do unsafeWindow.fkey.value.
@bjb568 That might be the issue, then (so am I). nowherenearithaca.com/2013/07/…
@bjb568 Ah.
@JanDvorak lol, why was that starred? image courtesy of @bjb568
Got it to work for everything except posting to chat.
Oh wat? The problem is that it 500s.
Ugh, the problem is that chat has a different fkey then SO.
4:48 PM
I don't know why you say hello! I say goodbye!
[Error] Refused to display 'http://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/' in a frame because it set 'X-Frame-Options' to 'SAMEORIGIN'. (about:blank, line 0)
@bjb568 why would you like the chat in a frame?
@JanDvorak To steal the fkey.
@bjb568 bad boy cat
@bjb568 even if you manage to embed it, you won't be able to communicate with it because cross-origin
4:57 PM
@JanDvorak Well, that's what people said about AJAX.
@bjb568 unless you're building a userscript
@JanDvorak I am.
you still can't access the frame scope
I bet I can fetch it with AJAX…
sure you can

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