Tavern on the Meta

Yi Jiang

00:00

@Moshe The main problem is the SO logo, but otherwise not bad. I also won't agree with some of the design choices, but hrm...

Moshe

@YiJiang I'm open to feedback. It's at an early stage. I'm just working with what exists now, changes to come.

I Could change the logo, I suppose....

George Marian

That's still speculation, though. You see my point? You have to be careful what you justify with things that may possibly happen in the future. Especially, as a programmer. You can very easily make things much more complicated and difficult for yourself (and others).

Yi Jiang

@Moshe They're all using image replacement, right? So just remove the sprited background altogether and use the text instead

Moshe

@YiJiang Just text? Okay, let me try that.

George Marian

Case in point, this Python script. I will likely release it as OSS at some point and a --verbose option may be useful. But, at this point, it's just cruft killing my mood. :)

Moshe

00:02

I was wondering if we could try a nicer font, but I'm not sure where to get one.

Yi Jiang

@Moshe You can try loading one through @font-face

George Marian

@TimStone Oh yah, I guess that is rather Perl-like.

Moshe

Right, which font though?

Tim Stone

0

Q: SE Modifications -- Comment autocomplete, inline revision source, and utility links

Screenshot About This userscript adds four main features: Various utility links on posts and in the top bar Inline viewing of post revision source Markdown on the post history page Links on comment timestamps for linking to specific comments (with enhanced "link-ability" for people wit...

\o/

mootinator

@Moshe Hah, I assumed that was you.

Moshe

00:05

@mootinator No me, I may need to make an account there to dispel the rumors.

badp

@Moshe I assume someone has reported the relevant design bug already? :)

Yi Jiang

A few other problems with the stylesheet too

Moshe

@badp Nope, hang on, setting up a git repo

Yi Jiang

Definitely does not like black colored tags

Tim Stone

imgur, why so slow? |:

Yi Jiang

00:07

@TimStone It's not just slow, it's failing for me

Tim Stone

shakes fist at it

Moshe

Do you think that Git is better to host the CSS file than my site? (speed, reliability, et al)

George Marian

@Moshe FWIW, I <3 git.

Though, you're referring to Github specifically, right?

Moshe

@GeorgeMarian Yes

github.com/MosheBerman/MinimalOverflow

waits in vain for github oneboxing.

George Marian

heh

Moshe

00:13

Okay, I need to get the userscript working on other pages now, so I can move on to the CSS. goes to find the original userscripts with the SO sites enabled

George Marian

That reminds me, I need to get serious about ordering this hosting package already.

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff - Why are the /reputation sections of the SE sites excluded from your userscript?

github.com/rchern/StackExchangeScripts/blob/master/…

Yi Jiang

When badp gets moderator status

7 mins ago, 6 minutes total – 12 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by Yi Jiang

Tim Stone

@Moshe That page is pretty much blank, there's no purpose in running the userscripts there.

Moshe

Ah, ok

Yi Jiang

00:15

@Moshe I've added the rep audit helper to the repo

Tim Stone

@YiJiang Hahahah

Yi Jiang

So we have that covered too :P

Tim Stone

Indeed. :D

Moshe

ok

badp

Oh look, moderators can delete all conversations, not just their own evil grin

Tim Stone

00:19

Ahh, wave of maintenance!

badp

This is a meaning of 'sort' I wasn't previously aware of.

Yi Jiang

@badp Sort by random of course! Some SQL have this feature I believe :P

Tim Stone

It's the new sort...dammit. :P

George Marian

@badp Yah, that screen is all sorts of wonky. I see they still don't have it working correctly.

badp

Oh, I heard MS had some trouble writing that one sort criteria

Tim Stone

00:23

@badp Then they called in the guy who did the Windows "time left" estimates.

2

George Marian

lol

badp

in SE Game On! on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 11 hours ago, by badp

Now I need 33 more minutes

in SE Game On! on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 11 hours ago, by badp

36 minutes ago I needed 33 more minutes

Moshe

Ugh, I can't test things if SO is down. Alright, I do have some other things to do in the meantime.

Ping me when SO is back up.

badp

@TimStone Yeah, they rebranded it 'Valve time'

Yi Jiang

@badp Well, they did mention that when Valve time merges with real time the world will end

Rebecca Chernoff

00:25

@Moshe (and @YiJiang since you seem interested), let me know when you've got something workable I can see. (:

Tim Stone

sits this one out in favour of finishing the script for @TheRenamedException

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff I can't work if I can't test, right? I can play guessing games for now with CSS colors, but SO is under maintanence now.

Oh, wait - opportunity! I can restyle the maintenance page!

Rebecca Chernoff

Well I didn't mean right now, just whenever, keep me in the loop. (:

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff Sure, no problem.

George Marian

wonders if he really needs an SSL cert for his blog/site

Tim Stone

00:27

@RebeccaChernoff You say that like you weren't guaranteed to be @lerted. :P

2

Rebecca Chernoff

Heh.

Good point. |:

Moshe

@TimStone (star for @lerted)

Tim Stone

Rebecca's word, I'm just a copycat.

Moshe

@TimStone Copycat of?

Tim Stone

Er..

2

The word?

Why is the StackApps offline picture the movie poster from Thunderball? :P

...I actually think I've asked this before, hmm.

Moshe

00:28

@TimStone We could change that...

Tim Stone

Nonsense.

Moshe

goes to make B&W images of Jimmy Wales (or Oliver Twist) appealing for some more time for maintanence

Yi Jiang

// Call prettyprint for code highlighting
printyprint();

-_-

badp

function printyprint(){
  prettyprint();
}

Tim Stone

@YiJiang Oh boy...where is that?

Yi Jiang

00:31

@TimStone My code... partial rewrite of js garden's js

Tim Stone

Ahhh, heheh

@RebeccaChernoff Not that it's actually important, but just as a casual reminder...WwF. ;)

Moshe

Ugh, these guys want $97 for a video review of my app?

I made an app to get out of being broke, not to pay everything to reviewers.

Rebecca Chernoff

Did you finally take your turn?

I've been waiting for ages!

Tim Stone

@RebeccaChernoff Five days ago! ;)

Rebecca Chernoff

Perhaps you should look again q:

Moshe

00:34

Erm, how does anyone else see the double post I just accidentally made?

@RebeccaChernoff guesses that @RebeccaChernoff played "ages"

Tim Stone

Appropriately played, hah

Not quite. :P

Rebecca Chernoff

@Moshe yeah, I had a connection glitch there also.

Moshe

Ok, not just me.

Rebecca Chernoff

@TimStone (:

Moshe

Really, i should finish this client off while SO is down.

Tim Stone

00:36

Unfortunately, I can't play my 7-letter word, hmm..

Zypher

hi all ... can you please beat the crap out of stackoverflow and make sure it up for you guys ?

Tim Stone

Spiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinning.

Yi Jiang

@Zypher It's currently very slow for me

Tim Stone

:/

Rebecca Chernoff

are you done yanking cables? (;

Zypher

00:38

@YiJiang yea you're filling the db cache for me :)

Tim Stone

Oh :P

Much better now. :D

George Marian

Maybe some nourishment will improve my mood.

Tim Stone

goes off to eat

Zypher

@RebeccaChernoff i am

... for now

started running out of time soo have some cleanup to do but that can wait till monday :)

Rebecca Chernoff

Things look good here.

Zypher

00:42

woohooo

Rebecca Chernoff

Other than random poking, anything specific to look at?

Zypher

nah craver is watching the logs for me

everything looking good though!

Yi Jiang

@RebeccaChernoff Somebody mentions poking? :pulls out giant Stick of Blame:

Moshe

Er, apparently, I can't host a css file on github.

Okay, pointing it back at my server.

Rebecca Chernoff

> employees will never be poked with a sharp stick

back off @YiJiang! (;

@Moshe why not?

Moshe

00:48

@RebeccaChernoff not working for some reason.

Mind taking a look and seeing what is wrong?

github.com/MosheBerman/MinimalOverflow

oh, could be i referenced the file in the whole GitHub UI, instead of the raw one.

Rebecca Chernoff

Well you're not referencing raw...right.

Moshe

btw, how do you get jQuery to work with userscripts?

Sweet! It works now. Folks, Minimal Overflow now is hosted on github.

mootinator

goes to answer a question and then wait for the hundreds of rep to roll in.

2

Moshe

\O/ - I broke the editor formatting buttons! er, oops.

George Marian

Congrats.

Yi Jiang

01:00

@Moshe Yup, how long did you take to realize that? :P

You've also forgot to recolor the a.youarehere styles for the global top nav

Moshe

@YiJiang Just added the userscript to be sitewide, so just now. You also working on this?

@YiJiang Did not get to it yet.

Yi Jiang

And the tag border appearance is jarring

Moshe

@YiJiang border appearance on mouseover?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe No, not yet. When you're finished I think I'll go in and mess with it ;)

Moshe

@YiJiang Heh, ok.

Yi Jiang

01:02

@Moshe -1px for all padding from the original value to stop that from happening

Moshe

thinks he is supposed to feel insulted, but no worries.

@YiJiang Oh. that, yea ok.

Tim Stone

lmao, I just sneezed so hard that the jerking motion caused the tiles to rearrange in WwF.

George Marian

@TimStone lol

Moshe

hrm...

Deciding how to reduce colors and where to remove lines is difficult.

I could trash all the borders and see what happens...

Moshe

01:28

Is anyone here who has worked on the initial stylesheet?

@YiJiang - Why do tags have color: #fff !important in them?

If it's to preserve colors of visited links, what's wrong with .post-tag:visited?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe I presume it's because of specificity problems to do with the use of inline tags

Moshe

@YiJiang Well, when I removed it, it makes the text on visited tags dark, since it's a link. I wonder if adding !important to the hover style will fix things.

Tim Stone

0

Q: How can I filter out profanity in numeric IDs?

I want to use numeric IDs in a web application I am developing... However, as the ID is visible to users as a URL, I want to filter out profanity. Things like (I'll leave it to you to figure out what they are): page.php?id=455 page.php?id=8008135 page.php?id=69 Has anyone solved this? Is this ...

id numeric profanity

..Huh.

badp

01:43

0

Q: Mark all posts in a tag as obsolete

Technology changes, games change, everything changes and information rot happens. While suggested edits can help fight this, readers who don't know better may be fed outdated information; after all, they're visiting the site to learn. I thought it would be an interesting 20ker/tag wiki editor ab...

feature-request information-rot

DOWNVOTE RING GO

Tim Stone

-20!

Hmm..

badp

@TimStone Tim Stone has thought about the matter since he last edited that chat message. Information in that post may now be obsolete.

Tim Stone

I'm contemplating writing a response, we'll see. ;)

Moshe

02:11

Does anyone know if I must restart my browser after an extension update for the changes to appear?

Tim Stone

Generally no, though if you're using Safari I really have no idea.

Moshe

@TimStone Thanks, I'm using Chrome to test.

Moshe

02:23

Anyone care to look at the update? I've added a toggler button but it's broken.

@drachenstern - github.com/MosheBerman/MinimalOverflow

drachenstern

@Moshe ack, I'll look at it later.

Moshe

@drachenstern Ok, thanks.

drachenstern

I am solo as of tomorrow circa 8pm - 10pm so maybe I can start to do my own projects then

Moshe

@drachenstern Huh?

drachenstern

zomg, and now I'm getting fussed at that I'm not rebuilding someone's laptop for free ... damnit woman, gimme some time for me

@Moshe read the transcript or just run with it.

Moshe

02:31

@drachenstern I choose run with it ;-)

drachenstern

@Moshe you have chosen wisely

Time to go install some software

Moshe

02:48

Yay, my userscript has gotten so complicated that I'm not sure what chrome is complaining about. Time to load up firebug!

Tim Stone

Firebug will likely help you even less.

Moshe

Doh, got it. I misspelled function.

drachenstern

Ok, I've got an AV client, MBAM, Foxit, Chrome, about to put Office, what else could a regular user really need installed on Windows7?

I guess I could put paint.net

Tim Stone

Ah, whoops. I do that sometimes too, heh. Which is especially bad since it's pretty easy to see when it doesn't highlight correctly.

Yi Jiang

@drachenstern You got VLC, CCLeaner, Defragger perhaps

drachenstern

02:53

@YiJiang for a non-techie I don't think VLC, but the Piriform's are probably a good idea

Yi Jiang

IM application perhaps? Pidgin, MSN, GTalk or whatever the person you're installing for is using

@drachenstern In that case install a codec pack or something for WMP? Not sure what video player you're installing here

Maybe Picasa, always enjoyed the photo viewer.

drachenstern

I'm not installing a media pack, I'm going to let them handle that. It's for a chick I don't know, so I'm not going to set her mind for her (even if it is easier). If she has a iPod that settles that. Otherwise I'm not sure who else is going to be using it. (hence my use of them)

Picasa might be a good idea too

Moshe

@drachenstern AV as in antivirus?

drachenstern

yes

Moshe

k just checking.

Is it .length or .length()?

Yi Jiang

02:59

@Moshe .length

Moshe

Thought so... Hrm...

And is it .href or .href.toString()?

drachenstern

api.jquery.com/length

that would be so much easier for you than asking us

Moshe

@drachenstern Not using jQuery now, I'm using vanilla JS. I know how much you enjoy linking me to the jQuery docs though.

drachenstern

then what?

javascript?

Moshe

@drachenstern Yep.

Yi Jiang

03:00

@Moshe Just .href

Moshe

oooh.

drachenstern

@Moshe well wait, I'll link you to the other docs ..

Yi Jiang

If not you're just calling toString on a String

Moshe

ok

drachenstern

@Moshe developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element.length

You really need to learn these two doc libraries

Moshe

03:01

@YiJiang I assume that .getAttr("rel") and .getAttr("rel").toString() is the same?

@drachenstern Indeed.

Yi Jiang

@drachenstern It's almost always a property .length, a function to get length is extremely rare

drachenstern

@YiJiang never know

@Moshe they should be

Yi Jiang

@Moshe getAttribute, not getAttr

Moshe

@YiJiang ah, yea, I wrote it like that.

Yi Jiang

And getAttribute should return a string, since property values are strings

Moshe

03:06

Yes!!

It works. Folks.

I'm not done with the stylesheet, but my userscript now toggles between the default theme of any site and the minimal one.

Anyone know if it's possible/how to add persistence between pages or browser loads? (I assume cookies, just wondering if userscripts can provide UI.)

drachenstern

Paint.Net, the piriform pair, AV, MBAM, Foxit, Office, 7Zip, Picasa, Chrome ... I think that ought to be good enough to get them started

Moshe

@drachenstern Yes.

Tyler Chacha

Where is a good place to actually find blogging/resources on Code Theory?

For instance, I'm currently watching a Google Tech Talk on Clean, Testable code

drachenstern

@TylerChacha explain further?

Tyler Chacha

Coding Horror sometimes talks about programming stuff....

I mean I have books like The Pragmatic Programmer, Design Patterns, Code Complete 2, just books that talk about things to make your code better, concepts that are useful for programming

Moshe

03:13

@YiJiang - I can't find how to set the ID, is that idName?

Tyler Chacha

I don't see many, or any, blogs that talk about programming concepts. Generally they are focused on things like jQuery or frameworks or w/e...

Or they go off topic a lot, like Coding Horror

Yi Jiang

@Moshe No, just id

Moshe

element.id? neat!

Yi Jiang

class wasn't used because class might be a reserved word, like cssFloat instead of float

drachenstern

Have you read CC2?

@TylerChacha that's because the bulk of your learning should be done in a structured classroom environment, and after four years of maths and theory, you can come out and start talking about off-topic or libraries a lot

Tyler Chacha

03:21

@drachenstern Ya

drachenstern

@TylerChacha cover to cover?

Tyler Chacha

@drachenstern Roughly

drachenstern

@TylerChacha did you understand all of it?

Tyler Chacha

yes

drachenstern

Have you read all of the backlog of Spolsky's blog?

Tyler Chacha

03:23

Is it anything like Jeff's blogs?

drachenstern

Ah-ha

Tyler Chacha

because I go to Spolsky's blog right now and it looks way too much like Coding Horror..

All off-topic StackExchange crap..

drachenstern

nah, the backlog

Moshe

Okay, switcher works. @YiJiang, @TimStone, feel free to look.

drachenstern

it's about how to code and methodology

Tyler Chacha

03:24

I love what they do, but honestly I don't want to hear that much about it..

Moshe

@drachenstern Joel's blog is largely about business practices in the programming world, not necessarily coding.

github.com/MosheBerman/MinimalOverflow

drachenstern

@Moshe his older blog stuff is largely about programming

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff - Feel free to look.

Going to focus more on the styles now.

drachenstern

like this article: joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html

or this: joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000036.html

Yi Jiang

in JavaScript on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 min ago, by Feeds

RT @dalmaer: "The Big Block Framework renders pixel art, pixel fonts and particles using DOM manipulation" http://t.co/T4VUUhX

Tweeted by html5 on February 27, 2011 at 3:23 AM

drachenstern

03:26

and the theory stuff isn't so big if you grasp the basic concepts, but I'm saying that from the other side of knowing it all

I would say the biggest thing to try and understand is set logic and set math. Set's are like arrays or hashmaps, but not as restrictive.

It's how databases work at the fundamental layer, and why SQL works the way it does.

It's part of why Object is always the base object too.

Moshe

@YiJiang sweet!

drachenstern

So code theory ... code theory ... what do you think "code theory" means Tyler?

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff - it seems that logos aren't much of an issue, btw, just tested on English.SE, as of now, it just replaces the english logo with the SO logo, odd, but it works.

Can server side languages read cookies generated by javascript from the same site?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe Think so

Rebecca Chernoff

Err, so you're saying if I'm on EL&U and switch to the basic theme, I see SO's logo?

drachenstern

03:31

@RebeccaChernoff it's helpful like that, don't you understand?

Rebecca Chernoff

|:

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff yes, for now. Point is that the different logos don't seem to be problematic in terms of layout.

drachenstern

@RebeccaChernoff my sentiment too ya know

@Moshe so you can make the EL&U logo appear on SO with no problem?

Moshe

@drachenstern Yes. heh

Rebecca Chernoff

@Moshe By "don't seem to be problematic" you seem to be saying "I'm ignoring the issue" unless I'm not understanding.

drachenstern

03:32

@RebeccaChernoff we read the same on that one

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff I'll fix that of course. Just saying that the different logos don't break the page layout.

Rebecca Chernoff

also, not all the logos are in the same spot

Yi Jiang

@RebeccaChernoff Hey, sounds like the SO approach to things!

Rebecca Chernoff

I think.

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff That's what I'm saying is not a problem.

Tim Stone

03:33

@YiJiang Hahah ;)

Rebecca Chernoff

I'm confused. |:

drachenstern

@TimStone don't encourage him ;)

Moshe

Logo styling is handled completely by this stylesheet, so the different default positions won't be an issue.

Tim Stone

I am too, but just nod ;)

Rebecca Chernoff

Seeing SO's logo if I'm on EL&U isn't cool.

Moshe

03:34

@RebeccaChernoff Right, I know.

Tim Stone

@drachenstern True, true...heh

Rebecca Chernoff

@YiJiang pfft, you didn't seem interested in suggesting change when we want change. q:

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff - Adding a bug report, unless you want to.

Tim Stone

scratches head

Yi Jiang

@RebeccaChernoff Well, you aren't changing this I want changed! (I don't really use the user page, really)

drachenstern

03:35

@Moshe you do realize that not all the elements on each page are positioned in the same places, right?

Moshe

@drachenstern Yes, I do.

@drachenstern But the "clean" stylesheet completely overwrites this since it replaces, not supersedes the existing stylesheet.

So it's not an issue. The elements themselves are consistent throught SE, just the positions and look/feel change from site to site.

Tim Stone

@YiJiang Those were my thoughts when I saw that post too, hahah. I always know who I'm looking for when I use that page.

Rebecca Chernoff

@YiJiang well the point is to make it useful so that maybe people will use it!

Moshe

Wait, @RebeccaChernoff - Can we use a universal stackexchange logo? Does that exist? (stackexchange.com?)

drachenstern

wtf?

Rebecca Chernoff

03:38

If I'm on EL&U, I want to see EL&U's logo (:

drachenstern

why would you want such a thing?

Tim Stone

Indeed: "Oh, I found this really cool user, I wish I could message them! Better go request it on Meta and automatically assume that it's never been asked before" :p

Moshe

@RebeccaChernoff But it's likely not going to fit the minimal theme.

I'm not completely sure - is this trying to make sites accessible, or "vanilla"?

If we're going for accessible, I'll go ahead and invert the EL&U logo to bright, "accessible" colors, otherwise, the site doesn't need a fancy logo - that wouldn't fit the minimal theme.

@RebeccaChernoff - which one is it?

Rebecca Chernoff

I'm not sure I see your distinction. We want the sites to have a clean, basic theme, but it should still be that site. We don't want another logo plopped in.

Tim Stone

People aren't posting enough crap, how am I supposed to get to Deputy now?!

Moshe

03:47

@RebeccaChernoff Hrm... Okay. I understand the concern over lack of a logo. Let me get a move on and see I end up with.

drachenstern

ok, gonna go spend time with my wife

Tim Stone

Enjoy, see ya @drachenstern

drachenstern

l8r

Tim Stone

@Zypher Hmm, are you still working on stuff, or is the SO notification meant to disappear like the Meta one did?

Moshe

@TimStone Wait, leave it up for a moment, need to finish styling it!

Okay, done.

Moshe

04:13

@YiJiang - Any idea why the browser is looking for the editor button images in my github account instead of on the server it's directed to?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe Change the relative urls to absolute urls

Moshe

I did

Yi Jiang

The urls in CSS files are always relative to the position of the CSS file

Moshe

@YiJiang ? erm, I made it absolute.

Yi Jiang

@Moshe They're not if it's still looking for them on Github

Moshe

04:15

Yi Jiang

Do they start with http://?

Uh...

Moshe

@YiJiang See the yellow tooltip and compare to the URL in the inspector

I'm not sure what's happening there.

Tim Stone

God damn you Chrome Inspector

Moshe

@TimStone shakes fist at chrome inspector

Tim Stone

Click on something and four of my tabs suddenly crash

Moshe

04:18

@YiJiang - Am I hallucinating or is something not right, or am I missing it?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe Maybe it's the protocol difference? I don't know

Moshe

@YiJiang http s ?

I could go on without this for now, I suppose. It's not like the editor buttons are on the mobile theme. I can get this fixed later.

is confused about how the links are styled

Tim Stone

@Moshe Eh, I think maybe it's just a UI bug in your Chrome Inspector.

The images aren't showing because you specified the wrong URL.

Moshe

@TimStone What URL should that be?

Tim Stone

http://sstatic.net/stackoverflow/Img/wmd-buttons.png

Not http://sstatic.net/Img/wmd-buttons.png

Moshe

04:27

@TimStone oh, thanks!

All of the site images are in like 2 or 3 files, right?

I should probably make new sets to match, then.

Moshe

04:47

Ahem, anyone here?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe Nope

Moshe

@YiJiang I'm taking a break for the night, wanna see if you can do anything listed as an issue on GitHub?

Namely, the persistence cookie?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe Sure, later

Moshe

Ok, thanks. Just fork it and let me know if you got anything done in about 8-10 hours.

I'm starting to get drowsy and I don't want to mess anything up.

Also, what do you think so far?

Yi Jiang

@Moshe Interesting, not entirely finished yet I suppose

Moshe

04:51

@YiJiang Yep, not finished, adding some issues to the github page. Feel free to tackle them.

@TimStone, @RebeccaChernoff - Signing off for the night, feel free to input on GitHub.

github.com/MosheBerman/MinimalOverflow/issues

Good Night!

When badp gets moderator status

Transcript for