Tavern on the Meta

user1271772

00:19

@Catija Excuse me, what happened?

Catija

@user1271772 you asked me if I realized that we have a private beta currently running and implied that I said we don't.

@EkadhSingh 90% of the time, no site is in private beta and we don't generally muck with their privileges, so for the purposes of this discussion, they don't matter. — Catija ♦ May 3 at 23:19

My comment expressly says that 90% of the time, we don't. It in no way indicates that we currently don't.

But all you quoted was starting at "no site is..." and mentioned Cardano... which is deceptive and incorrect.

Journeyman Geek

00:40

Cardano is in public beta anyway?

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek It's still in Private Beta

Journeyman Geek

Also

> 90% of the time, no site is in private beta

user1271772

But Private Beta is no longer as "private" as it used to be: it used to be the case that only committers could access it, but more recently it was opened to the whole network

Journeyman Geek

If that were true, welcome to the 10%? :D

user1271772

So maybe that's why you thought it's in public beta?

@Catija I don't think I asked you if I realized we have a private beta running, I think I just wrote that "Cardano is in private beta". However, you're completely right that my comment should have been deleted, because it was totally an error to assume that you didn't know.

Journeyman Geek

00:44

@user1271772 maybe. Also I don't pay attention to crypto sites

Catija

user1271772

Actually I don't think I assumed you don't know, so much as I was just trying to correct you because I thought you made a mistake (I hadn't seen the 90% part, which probably seems unbelievable, but it's the truth ... I'm often guilty of having too many overlapping windows open on my desktop monitor and do need to be more careful).

Okay, I'm sorry for the comment, I didn't mean it with ill-intent in any way.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 It might be worth taking a moment to fact check/tone check then. Someone might have gotten confused - and there's so many comments on those posts that checking each and everyone with the context can be 'fun'

user1271772

"which is deceptive and incorrect." --> I wasn't trying to be "deceptive" , I was indeed incorrect though, and I'm sorry for that.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 someone who hadn't read the other comment might have been... confused.

user1271772

00:50

@JourneymanGeek I did try to fact check, but the comment was deleted by then. But it's still true that I didn't ask if she realized it's still in Beta, I just asked "what about Cardano?" because I thought she forgot about it. Recently Catija said the last two sites to enter Beta were Drones and OR, which is not true ... so I thought it could be possible that she forgot about Cardano this time. Turns out I totally missed the "90% part". I wasn't trying to be deceptive or to misrepresent anything

or to selectively quote anything. It was just a mistake.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 I'm not accusing you of either. I'm saying it might have been confusing for folks.

forest distrusts StackExchange

When is the new font rolling out?

Journeyman Geek

I mean, absolute accuracy is nice - but the focus is really on "we're not doing this for sites on private beta" over "we have no sites in private beta"

@forestdistrustsStackExchange Its not the 10th yet in the US is it?

user1271772

I think when you tell someone it might be worth it to do something, sure perhaps it's not technically an accusation, but it sure does come across as if I didn't fact check/tone check.

forest distrusts StackExchange

@JourneymanGeek Oh, maybe not.

Journeyman Geek

00:53

@forestdistrustsStackExchange yeah - clock on my phone says its almost 9 pm there on sunday

forest distrusts StackExchange

I somehow assumed it'd be in UTC, and it's the 10th in UTC.

Journeyman Geek

@forestdistrustsStackExchange considering the risk of a sucessful scream test, I suspect deployment will be during office hours.

And the dev team will be parked on the metas, maybe twitter

forest distrusts StackExchange

Is Twitter the official channel for feedback still? :P

Journeyman Geek

Naw, not really

But its still a useful place for non meta folks/sentiment

As... dumb as it is to discount the core community, Its just as foolish to assume people will do things the 'right' way too :D

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek What's "the right way" ?

Journeyman Geek

01:00

Meta

5 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek

And the dev team will be parked on the metas, maybe twitter

In reference to that.

@forestdistrustsStackExchange oh also in some cases... github

forest distrusts StackExchange

wut

user1271772

However, while Meta.SE might be the "right way" (actually the "intended" way, I don't think there's any "right way"), it isn't necessarily the most welcoming: "Meta is Murder".

forest distrusts StackExchange

That's mainly because of how staff handled their interactions with Meta.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 Its worth reading the actual blog post its from for the full context of it

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek The blog post that Meta.SE is from?

Journeyman Geek

01:04

@forestdistrustsStackExchange I don't remember off the top of my head which this is for but there's certain assets SE uses that are open source

@user1271772 yup. Meta is murder has nothing to do with the welcomingness of meta.

@forestdistrustsStackExchange So - there's github issues opened for MSE posts :D

and vice versa

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek I disagree, unless my interpretation of "Meta is Murder" is different from yours. I first learned the phrase from rene, in a specific context, which I think is unwelcoming.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 Yeah, you may wish to reread the article

and "Meta is unwelcoming" is very much the sort of thing people who dislike meta tend to say.

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek I don't think I've ever read it.

Journeyman Geek

Its difficult sure

@user1271772 Its worth the time. Jeff's a great writer.

user1271772

Thanks for the advice, I'm looking for it now

Journeyman Geek

01:07

Also, its very different using meta as a soapbox vs as a way to raise an issue

raising issues on features is rarely going to get backlash. It just needs you to know its there

user1271772

I searched "blog" and "jeff" here:

82

Q: What is a meta for?

A guest at my house over the weekend stood puzzled next to my driveway. "What is that for?" she asked, pointing to a framework of 2x4s and hardware cloth perched on an old tire amid piles of sand. "Sifter." I said. "For what?" "For sifting gravel." "Why?" "To line walking paths, such as the one y...

And here:

meta.stackexchange.com/help/whats-meta

Journeyman Geek

blog.codinghorror.com/meta-is-murder

Actual blog post ^

user1271772

Okay so I had to search "meta is murder"

I'll definitely read this. I thought you were talking about a blog where Meta was first introduced, not the blog where "Meta is murder" was first introduced.

Journeyman Geek

> Generally speaking, I am not a fan of the meta. It's seductive in a way that is subtly but deeply dangerous. It's far easier to introspect and write about the process of, say .. blogging .. than it is to think up, research, and write about an interesting new topic on your blog. Meta-work becomes a reflex, a habit, an addiction, and ultimately a replacement for real productive work.

Half true, half wrong, but has nothing to do with site culture

blog.codinghorror.com/…

This predates actual meta BY THREE YEARS.

Not that anyone is expected to know that

user1271772

Unfortunately there's only 2 hrs 49 minutes left of Mother's day, and I do have to drive to her place to deliver the pistachio ice cream (the type my mom likes) that my wife made her, so I do have to go for today, but will read your last few messages later.

@Catija I didn't @ping you in my replies because I saw one time in the Drones.SE room that you said pings can be annoying, so I figured if you were already there that I don't need to cause that annoying ping sound to appear for you, but now I see your picture has moved quite far along in the list of active users so in case I didn't make it clear yet: I'm sorry for that comment, it was a misunderstanding because I didn't see the "90%" part. I did not intend to "deceive" or "selectively copy"

anything. It was an error on my part and I'll be more careful next time. I'm glad it was caught early, and sorry again: no harm was intended at all.

Alex

01:37

@JourneymanGeek Office hours at midnight?

Or waiting until ~9:00 AM.

Journeyman Geek

@Alex I would suspect the latter - but we'll see

Meta Andrew T.

02:46

@user1271772 actually, no... it's possible to create an account on private beta sites without being a committer since a long time ago (at least in 2014).

forest distrusts StackExchange

On a site like Academia.SE no less.

Meta Andrew T.

spammers don't care which sites they're on... they see text box, they enter it...

Journeyman Geek