Tavern on the Meta

12:19 AM

@Catija Excuse me, what happened?

@user1271772 you asked me if I realized that we have a private beta currently running and implied that I said we don't.

@EkadhSingh 90% of the time, no site is in private beta and we don't generally muck with their privileges, so for the purposes of this discussion, they don't matter. — Catija ♦ May 3 at 23:19

My comment expressly says that 90% of the time, we don't. It in no way indicates that we currently don't.

But all you quoted was starting at "no site is..." and mentioned Cardano... which is deceptive and incorrect.

Journeyman Geek

12:40 AM

Cardano is in public beta anyway?

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek It's still in Private Beta

Journeyman Geek

Also

> 90% of the time, no site is in private beta

user1271772

But Private Beta is no longer as "private" as it used to be: it used to be the case that only committers could access it, but more recently it was opened to the whole network

Journeyman Geek

If that were true, welcome to the 10%? :D

user1271772

So maybe that's why you thought it's in public beta?

@Catija I don't think I asked you if I realized we have a private beta running, I think I just wrote that "Cardano is in private beta". However, you're completely right that my comment should have been deleted, because it was totally an error to assume that you didn't know.

Journeyman Geek

12:44 AM

@user1271772 maybe. Also I don't pay attention to crypto sites

Catija

user1271772

Actually I don't think I assumed you don't know, so much as I was just trying to correct you because I thought you made a mistake (I hadn't seen the 90% part, which probably seems unbelievable, but it's the truth ... I'm often guilty of having too many overlapping windows open on my desktop monitor and do need to be more careful).

Okay, I'm sorry for the comment, I didn't mean it with ill-intent in any way.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 It might be worth taking a moment to fact check/tone check then. Someone might have gotten confused - and there's so many comments on those posts that checking each and everyone with the context can be 'fun'

user1271772

"which is deceptive and incorrect." --> I wasn't trying to be "deceptive" , I was indeed incorrect though, and I'm sorry for that.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 someone who hadn't read the other comment might have been... confused.

user1271772

12:50 AM

@JourneymanGeek I did try to fact check, but the comment was deleted by then. But it's still true that I didn't ask if she realized it's still in Beta, I just asked "what about Cardano?" because I thought she forgot about it. Recently Catija said the last two sites to enter Beta were Drones and OR, which is not true ... so I thought it could be possible that she forgot about Cardano this time. Turns out I totally missed the "90% part". I wasn't trying to be deceptive or to misrepresent anything

or to selectively quote anything. It was just a mistake.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 I'm not accusing you of either. I'm saying it might have been confusing for folks.

forest distrusts StackExchange

When is the new font rolling out?

Journeyman Geek

I mean, absolute accuracy is nice - but the focus is really on "we're not doing this for sites on private beta" over "we have no sites in private beta"

@forestdistrustsStackExchange Its not the 10th yet in the US is it?

user1271772

I think when you tell someone it might be worth it to do something, sure perhaps it's not technically an accusation, but it sure does come across as if I didn't fact check/tone check.

forest distrusts StackExchange

@JourneymanGeek Oh, maybe not.

Journeyman Geek

12:53 AM

@forestdistrustsStackExchange yeah - clock on my phone says its almost 9 pm there on sunday

forest distrusts StackExchange

I somehow assumed it'd be in UTC, and it's the 10th in UTC.

Journeyman Geek

@forestdistrustsStackExchange considering the risk of a sucessful scream test, I suspect deployment will be during office hours.

And the dev team will be parked on the metas, maybe twitter

forest distrusts StackExchange

Is Twitter the official channel for feedback still? :P

Journeyman Geek

Naw, not really

But its still a useful place for non meta folks/sentiment

As... dumb as it is to discount the core community, Its just as foolish to assume people will do things the 'right' way too :D

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek What's "the right way" ?

Journeyman Geek

1:00 AM

Meta

5 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek

And the dev team will be parked on the metas, maybe twitter

In reference to that.

@forestdistrustsStackExchange oh also in some cases... github

forest distrusts StackExchange

wut

user1271772

However, while Meta.SE might be the "right way" (actually the "intended" way, I don't think there's any "right way"), it isn't necessarily the most welcoming: "Meta is Murder".

forest distrusts StackExchange

That's mainly because of how staff handled their interactions with Meta.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 Its worth reading the actual blog post its from for the full context of it

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek The blog post that Meta.SE is from?

Journeyman Geek

1:04 AM

@forestdistrustsStackExchange I don't remember off the top of my head which this is for but there's certain assets SE uses that are open source

@user1271772 yup. Meta is murder has nothing to do with the welcomingness of meta.

@forestdistrustsStackExchange So - there's github issues opened for MSE posts :D

and vice versa

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek I disagree, unless my interpretation of "Meta is Murder" is different from yours. I first learned the phrase from rene, in a specific context, which I think is unwelcoming.

Journeyman Geek

@user1271772 Yeah, you may wish to reread the article

and "Meta is unwelcoming" is very much the sort of thing people who dislike meta tend to say.

user1271772

@JourneymanGeek I don't think I've ever read it.

Journeyman Geek

Its difficult sure

@user1271772 Its worth the time. Jeff's a great writer.

user1271772

Thanks for the advice, I'm looking for it now

Journeyman Geek

1:07 AM

Also, its very different using meta as a soapbox vs as a way to raise an issue

raising issues on features is rarely going to get backlash. It just needs you to know its there

user1271772

I searched "blog" and "jeff" here:

82

Q: What is a meta for?

A guest at my house over the weekend stood puzzled next to my driveway. "What is that for?" she asked, pointing to a framework of 2x4s and hardware cloth perched on an old tire amid piles of sand. "Sifter." I said. "For what?" "For sifting gravel." "Why?" "To line walking paths, such as the one y...

And here:

meta.stackexchange.com/help/whats-meta

Journeyman Geek

blog.codinghorror.com/meta-is-murder

Actual blog post ^

user1271772

Okay so I had to search "meta is murder"

I'll definitely read this. I thought you were talking about a blog where Meta was first introduced, not the blog where "Meta is murder" was first introduced.

Journeyman Geek

> Generally speaking, I am not a fan of the meta. It's seductive in a way that is subtly but deeply dangerous. It's far easier to introspect and write about the process of, say .. blogging .. than it is to think up, research, and write about an interesting new topic on your blog. Meta-work becomes a reflex, a habit, an addiction, and ultimately a replacement for real productive work.

Half true, half wrong, but has nothing to do with site culture

blog.codinghorror.com/…

This predates actual meta BY THREE YEARS.

Not that anyone is expected to know that

user1271772

Unfortunately there's only 2 hrs 49 minutes left of Mother's day, and I do have to drive to her place to deliver the pistachio ice cream (the type my mom likes) that my wife made her, so I do have to go for today, but will read your last few messages later.

@Catija I didn't @ping you in my replies because I saw one time in the Drones.SE room that you said pings can be annoying, so I figured if you were already there that I don't need to cause that annoying ping sound to appear for you, but now I see your picture has moved quite far along in the list of active users so in case I didn't make it clear yet: I'm sorry for that comment, it was a misunderstanding because I didn't see the "90%" part. I did not intend to "deceive" or "selectively copy"

anything. It was an error on my part and I'll be more careful next time. I'm glad it was caught early, and sorry again: no harm was intended at all.

Alex

1:37 AM

@JourneymanGeek Office hours at midnight?

Or waiting until ~9:00 AM.

Journeyman Geek

@Alex I would suspect the latter - but we'll see

Meta Andrew T.

2:46 AM

@user1271772 actually, no... it's possible to create an account on private beta sites without being a committer since a long time ago (at least in 2014).

forest distrusts StackExchange

On a site like Academia.SE no less.

Meta Andrew T.

spammers don't care which sites they're on... they see text box, they enter it...

Journeyman Geek

3:38 AM

@forestdistrustsStackExchange In german

MITZ OFF DAZ BLINKENLIGHTEN

user1271772

4:20 AM

@MetaAndrewT. By "more recently" I meant that it wasn't always the case.

rene

6:34 AM

→ 6 messages moved to Chimney

Tinkeringbell

7:00 AM

And boredom starts in 3...2...1...

Luuklag

7:12 AM

@Tinkeringbell enjoying a meeting?

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag 4 hours long.

Luuklag

whoop whoop

Tinkeringbell

Training, given in proper Dunglish. My mind often is already tired after the first 5 minutes of it :|

Luuklag

Yeah thats just horrible. We should ask that everyone teaching has at least a CAE or a CPE degree

I often skipped classes tought in Dunglish in university

but the other way around is also extremely annoying. A native English speaker having to teach in Dutch because its a first year's course

And then trying to explain the difference between Alkane's, Alkeen's etc.

Tinkeringbell

I mean, I know my spoken English isn't much better. And yes, trying to listen to any language that isn't spoken like it should be is just so tiring: You first have to correct the mistakes in your head to be able to get what was literally said, then you have to do the actual comprehension and try to memorize.

rene

7:19 AM

I'll try to do better. I just need to warm-up a bit ...

So, what is the topic today we "learn" about?

Tinkeringbell

SAFe DevOps

Day 3/4

Journeyman Geek

Dosen't sound like something that can be learninated in 4 days

Luuklag

You could un-learn the most unsafe things in 4 days I guess

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek True. I'm expected to do some reading and learning for the exam after 4 half days of powerpoints XD

It's a typical school-thing: Follow along with the slides and the study guide, and you know what you will need to know for the exam.

We've now reached the 'what is a nonfunctional requirement phase'.

Luuklag

@Tinkeringbell So they train you to pass the exam, and forget everything after that ;)

Tinkeringbell

7:30 AM

@Luuklag Yep!

Luuklag

those are the best!

Tinkeringbell

Want to know a fun thing? SAFe as the organisation gives out certificates that expire after a year. But, you don't have to retake any exam: Just pay more, and you get your next year of certification. So it really is 'pass the exam, forget' model XD

Luuklag

@Tinkeringbell why would any employer promote you to get that certificate then

if its actually worthless

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag I'm mostly thinking 'it's a manager thing'. My manager wants me to have it as it looks good on CVs sent to clients. Apparently clients have managers that want people to have it too.

Luuklag

Meh well then, just spend money to make money

Tinkeringbell

7:34 AM

yep

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

8:15 AM

@rene did you say to the OP here in a comment that they can edit the profile even in mobile view? That's incorrect.

Mobile view has no link to edit profile.

SE don't think it's important enough to have.

The only way is to use full site theme, which is fine, mostly.

oh wait, just saw your own edit. lol. Disregard.

Luuklag

@AldusBumblebore it is only available in the full site view, not in the mobile view. I've added that step. — rene 2 hours ago

rene

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I initially did. I thought I verified by switching to the mobile site but I obviously didn't do enough testing.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

8:38 AM

@rene shame! :P

!!/slap rene

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard No such command 'slap'.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

:(

@Luuklag looks like OP choose which comments to read then, and ignoring others.

How come this isn't reported by Smokey?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Probably because it isn't spam, just very unstructured ranting?

That's also vaguely related to the question and the comment under it, I think.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell there's a bad word in there. (the "d" word, four letters.)

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard As far as I know, Smokey isn't there for bad words?

rene

8:50 AM

@Tinkeringbell Scaled Agile is an oxymoron by itself

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell sure, I didn't flag as offensive, just VLQ, but Smokey usually catch those anyway.

Tinkeringbell

Also, if it's just the one word, and edit is appropriate :P 'phallus' works :P

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell chat.meta.stackexchange.com/…

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Okay, but isn't 'bad keyword' usually something related to spam? :P

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell you might be right, lol

Tinkeringbell

8:53 AM

I haven't dropped by Charcoal in a long while, but I can imagine there not being a regex that only catches 'dick'. If it's spam, there's probably better words to regex for, like 'enhancement' :P

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

meh, doesn't concern me personally, lol.

Tinkeringbell

@rene Back to serious business ;)

It is.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tink oh... what I was looking for is "Offensive answer detected"

It scan the answer for offensive words.

But maybe one word without other bad things in the posts isn't enough to raise the alarm.

And.... I'm wrong. Recent example - one offensive word was enough for Smokey to report the answer.

So dunno what's going on.

Tinkeringbell

My bet is still on 'no regex that catches that word' :P

Browsing the metasmoke page of offensive answers detected is quite good to develop a more colorful vocabulary, though XD

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell it should catch (careful, nasty words in there.... ;))

Tinkeringbell

9:04 AM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard It's okay, I'm on my own PC!

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

huh they even put link to pic in that list, lol

washing screen and getting back to work

Tinkeringbell

Hmm. A quick page search only gives me two results though, and neither would probably catch the sole word?

Yeah, let's get back to work :P

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell the one with "|" should mean "either of those".

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Yeah, but only in combination with what comes after it, right?

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@rene can you give a hand?

(with the regex not "working")

@Tinkeringbell might be the case, yeah

BTW @Tink it's also in line 789

rene

9:09 AM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard sure

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

But like you said, I'm now also pretty sure it will catch only when it's combined.

Tinkeringbell

:D Glad to be right :P

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell left! (I'm left handed ;))

@rene where's the helping hand?

looking behind

:P

rene

right/left

Tinkeringbell

I'm righthanded, but there's some stuff I can do with my left one as well.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

9:13 AM

Found @rene's hand.

rene

LOL

Tinkeringbell

I apparently was one of those kids that couldn't make up their mind, so school did it for me. Once my mom told me that later, I started to see if I could still train my left hand a bit.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell that's useful! :)

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard It's mostly not :P

It's at the 'lame party trick' level of things you can do with it XD

Like, I can write with my left and right hand, at the same speeds. But there's definitely a difference :P

rene

both look better then my writing ...

2

Luuklag

9:19 AM

@rene +1

Tinkeringbell

I know both aren't too bad, but still.

Meta Andrew T.

Has the 10th switched it?

oh...

@MarkRansom I’ll update the post when it’s ready. Probably around 11 or noon central if there aren’t any fires to put out. It’s my Sunday night at the moment and that means watching episodes of The Larry Sanders show. 🤗 — Aaron Shekey ♦ 5 hours ago

Journeyman Geek

Told ya

9 hours ago, by Journeyman Geek

@forestdistrustsStackExchange considering the risk of a sucessful scream test, I suspect deployment will be during office hours.

Meta Andrew T.

unless, fires

Journeyman Geek

9:41 AM

Why else do you think they're screaming?

bleh. I just took apart an crappy keyboard to try doing a switch replacement annnd...

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Ice cold water does well too.

Journeyman Geek

I can't find my soldering stuff

Tinkeringbell

mom-mode activated where did you last put it?

Journeyman Geek

I checked :D

it should be in my filing cabinet but it isn't

I'll check elsewhere. it couldn't have grown feet and walked

There's 2 other places it could be, but there's a pile of stuff over both so it can wait. :D

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek that's the wrong place to start with, since a filing cabinet is for files....

Journeyman Geek

9:45 AM

@Luuklag I use one for assorted tools

was from the old office

A smarter man would have gotten the tools first

then dismantled the keyboard

anyway no rush

Luuklag

haha, now you can't ctrl+f your soldering iron ;)

Journeyman Geek

10:20 AM

I think that's a project for tommorrow :D

(finding it - and my solder sucker... which I need)

Tinkeringbell

Just don't lose any parts in the meanwhile :P

Journeyman Geek

(and its one of those "meh, if things don't work out I'm not out much' projects.

@Tinkeringbell got the keys in a tub, screws in a pill holder, bag of 10 switches for replacing 2 (they're like 10c each for 'knockoffs' of the standard ones...)

Everything is vaguely organised :D

Tinkeringbell

Sounds organised indeed. I would still manage to lose the pill holder or tub though :P

Journeyman Geek

Its a big tub, and the pill holder is in the tub

Tinkeringbell

Ah, so it's easier to lose both!

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

10:46 AM

@Luuklag k

:D

spammer on a roll.... :/

Luuklag

11:10 AM

@JNat cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/21367110/sonik?tab=accounts

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Let's get out the big guns ˆ

JNat

@Luuklag gone

Luuklag

thx :)

no appetite for a backlog anymore?

JNat

not if I can avoid it xD

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard FYI - meta.stackexchange.com/questions/364252/… that belongs on MSO, and the reasoning for the question is 'interesting'

Some companies/clients do insist their information is kept in specific jurisdictions - and can't run stuff in the cloud without assurances that they are

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek very much true

I was looking at MSO to find something, bug was unsucesfull

you might want to migrate

Journeyman Geek

11:24 AM

Already done ;)

Luuklag

I know our company can only store clients info within EU geographical boundaries

Journeyman Geek

Mine can only do it in singapore boundaries

which makes certain things 'fun'

Luuklag

Just to be due diligent on making sure that specifici PII laws are folowed

Journeyman Geek

I'm reasonably sure unless the instance is enterprise, the answer is no, But I'll leave it to people who arn't making SWAGS and UWAGS to answer :D

Luuklag

I polished the language a bit, so should be fine now

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

11:47 AM

@Luuklag oh, didn't notice spammer was cross network

@JourneymanGeek yeah, but is it really the case in SE?

Luuklag

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Well it could be a reason for not wanting to take a teams subscription

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard ^

Luuklag

So getting an official response could be helpful

Journeyman Geek

What he said :D

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Luuklag yeah, but to do it SE would have to invest quite a lot.

Luuklag

11:52 AM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I don't know. But having an official response can't be that expensive ;)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard eh, the moment you go to the cloud, and have a robust orchatration framework... I'm not sure

It might not be a big cost sink, but once again

best to let people who know take a look rather than guess :D

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@JourneymanGeek true

Journeyman Geek

1:18 PM

hm

-5

Q: Requring verbal justification of close instead of just 3 close votes to close a post

The StackOverflow site has excessive closes than it should be. The problem is that a close can be done with just three votes without any justification. A lot of time the reason tagged for closing is wrong. Therefore, I suggest requiring the persons who close a post to write the reason justifying ...

discussion review vote-to-close

Is SO even on the 3 close vote experiemtn?

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Wasn't it the first?

Journeyman Geek

I thought it ended

And I don't remember it being in the current batch, but I may be wrong

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Well, proof it's still ongoing.

(closed by three ordinary users.)

Journeyman Geek

Ok cool

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

But it's 100000% not relevant if the question was closed by 1, 3, 5, or 500 users, when it concerns asking for mandatory comment.

OP is just looking to rant.

Journeyman Geek

1:21 PM

Well yes!

But If I choose to comment - and mentioned they weren't in the experiment, It would become the focus of the responses...

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Yeah

Rob

1:54 PM

^^ ... for their enjoyment, closed by 2.

Meta Andrew T.

@JourneymanGeek it ended successfully and thus continued, so successfully that HardwareRecs got 1-vote closure.

Journeyman Geek

@MetaAndrewT. well yes but I think OP would love that even less

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Rob well can also be 1, mod.

Meta Andrew T.

WhoAaAaAaAa.... the comments are gone when I blink

rene

@MetaAndrewT. shakes petals ...

Journeyman Geek

2:04 PM

@MetaAndrewT. Not constrictive they ~~are~~ were

Meta Andrew T.

I guess I should stop rerouting the blink detector to the refresh button...

Journeyman Geek

That would help

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Poor OP now has whole new reason to be upset.

Journeyman Geek

Well yes

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

where my comments gone?! give them back!1!!!

Journeyman Geek

2:08 PM

"In a place where the sun don't shiiiineee"

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Well they learn the hard way how SE really works...

@JourneymanGeek let me check....

still checking...

nah, not in there.

:-P

Journeyman Geek

It is dark. The comments are likely to be eaten by a grue

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Grue with a glu?

Journeyman Geek

A gruesome grue

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Scar-Y

Meta Andrew T.

2:10 PM

well, don't want to judge the OP, but asking more than 100+ questions usually bewilders me

Journeyman Geek

I'm the other way around on meta

time also matters :D

Meta Andrew T.

good! :p

Ekadh Singh

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard The OP might not be looking to rant, just conflating two different things accidentally

Also things getting closed for the wrong reasons is a legitimate problem (at least in my experience)

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh there were lots of comments

One often does better looking at the problem at hand, than demanding that everything changes :)

Ekadh Singh

@JourneymanGeek on which post? I see no comments on the meta post of the SO post. (shouldiblamecaching.com ?)

Journeyman Geek

2:17 PM

@EkadhSingh the comments on the meta posts were deleted

Ekadh Singh

Ok

Journeyman Geek

16 mins ago, by Meta Andrew T.

WhoAaAaAaAa.... the comments are gone when I blink

@MetaAndrewT. blinked

Feeds

Don’t push that button: Exploring the software that flies SpaceX rocketships

Ben Popper on May 10, 2021

Spaceflight, from the beginning, has depended on computers – both on the ground and in the spacecraft. SpaceX has carried it to a new level. We recently spoke with Steven Gerding, Dragon’s software development lead, about the special challenges software development has for SpaceX’s many missions.

Journeyman Geek

Is that a ~~dagger~~ onebox I see before me?

Meta Andrew T.

@JourneymanGeek yeah, someone blinked

Ekadh Singh

2:20 PM

@JourneymanGeek their blinks are more powerful than thanos’ snaps :P

Journeyman Geek

Yes

Yanno how mars is a lifeless planet?

Blink.

Ekadh Singh

Don’t blink while looking at earth. Otherwise, “We are all going to die”

Journeyman Geek

Venus's sulphuric acid athmosphere? .... blink...

Krakatoa?

I think you get the idea

ymb1

2:48 PM

hi @Tinkeringbell -- you've convinced me -- when accepting, probably tomorrow or so, do I remove the feature-request tag as well?

user400654

it should stay if it's a feature request, even if ultimately the change that happens isn't exactly what you're asking for

ymb1

makes sense

Tinkeringbell

@ymb1 Yeah, what 400 said ;) The tag can (and should) stay. Otherwise the answer won't make much sense anymore either.

Also, hi!

ymb1

3:22 PM

@Tinkeringbell found a 6-yr old buried site consensus on the matter thanks to your answer -- on Aviation, "clearly, demonstrably wrong" are deletable! yay 🎉

Journeyman Geek

@ymb1 Its mainly valid on Aviation so be cautious interpreting it on other sites

ymb1

yep! site-specific

PM 2Ring

3:48 PM

@ymb1 "on some sites such as those that deal with programming, that visible wrong answers have value, as a heads-up to not do that" On SO, working code in the answer can act as a verification that the answer is correct. That's an advantage that non-programming sites don't have. Still, it can also be good on SO to cite official docs.

With some programming languages, there may not be a central authority of truth, and if you write code that appears to behave in the desired way, that's about the best you can hope for. OTOH, a language like C does have an official standard. If you post some code that invokes undefined behaviour that seems to do the right thing on your compiler & hardware, the C language lawyers will rightfully criticise you, and downvote you to oblivion

Tinkeringbell

@ymb1 6 yr old and buried may be a bit of a problem, but if that's true, then yay!

PM 2Ring

The occasional downvoted rubbish answer can be useful, but popular questions tend to attract a lot of low value answers. Some of those may not even be technically incorrect, but they still get in the way, so we tend to delete them.

ymb1

@Tinkeringbell: true, that's why I, right away, asked this: aviation.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4215/14897

@PM2Ring interesting insight!

PM 2Ring

4:12 PM

@ymb1 Thanks. Python occupies an interesting position. It does have official docs, but ultimately the "true definition" of Python is given by the behaviour of the official Python interpreter. So if the language reference docs seem to contradict the interpreter, the docs are wrong. Of course, then it's a matter of discussion & debate among the devs whether to modify the interpreter or the docs for the next version. ;)

Journeyman Geek

The font change rolled out

user400654

🚽

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Oof, takes some getting used to :(

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell There was a mention that SE was using source sans in their marketing materials

I would be so happy if they switched the main site to that and source code pro for monotype

Everything also looks... smaller

Tinkeringbell

Sanity check:

Were the upvote/flag thing always sticky?

I can't remember the whitespace in comments like the one from Luuklag, which makes me think it may be different... but...

Journeyman Geek

4:16 PM

Nope

I don't remember them turning up until hover

Tinkeringbell

Okay, meta.stackexchange.com/a/364260/369802 then ;)

Journeyman Geek

hm

Tinkeringbell

hm?

Rob

@JourneymanGeek It's Fonday!

Meta Andrew T.

It switched.

Oh yeah, the chat isn't affected.

Journeyman Geek

4:23 PM

THE FONTENING IS UPON US: SE's rolled out the change of the site fonts to the system fonts.

4

ymb1

@JourneymanGeek they were always sticky, I screenshot a funny section recently, and they're there

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell Apparently I am in error

ymb1

what is jarring atm is the inbox notification :S it's aliased and off center

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Okay, it's deleted then.

Catija

@JourneymanGeek Meh.

Journeyman Geek

4:26 PM

@Catija to the name or the pin? :D

Catija

It's probably fine in the long run but... it's ... different.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija more so people who arn't keeping track of meta, but are in chat(s) are aware

Catija

I kinda feel like the Mac font is... childish?

Journeyman Geek

I'm not super fond of the windows one either

Arial is one of the 'better' mainstream dyslexic fonts.

Catija

The sidebar looks kinda bad, weight wise.

Journeyman Geek

4:28 PM

So new problem

Catija

Seems like the text could benefit from actually being black.

Journeyman Geek

You need to wonder how something looks in at least 4 different fonts

Windows

Tinkeringbell

The difference is... minimal XD

Meta Andrew T.

@Tinkeringbell yes, since 2018

Tinkeringbell

@MetaAndrewT. I don't know how I made that mistake. All I can do is blame a fried brain.

Journeyman Geek

4:31 PM

tbh

Ubuntu seems the nicest of the OSes I run

Meta Andrew T.

@Tinkeringbell well, sometimes I still also feel like hovering something to make them appear...

Catija

It's too bad you can't change your system font and have this change on the site, too.

Meta Andrew T.

I think for the post notice/banner, the font size (or weight?) on Windows may be a bit hard to see :S

Journeyman Geek

@Catija I think you can..I was kind hoping it would use browser defaults instead

I'll test in the morning 😁

Tinkeringbell

I'm sorry... I've already resorted to a userscript to get my cheese back where it was.

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