Tavern on the Meta

Aibobot

01:51

ugh

Stupid part about working in a place full of TLAs. I need to figure out how get some data. I'm looking at the tool we use (which outputs the sql scripts it runs) and nothing there seems to output the bit of data I need

.....

Rob

02:48

^^ The answer humorously reveals itself: meta.stackexchange.com/q/354071/282094

Meta Andrew T.

03:09

My code doesn't run. It doesn't have legs, only colons.

Rob

Must be markup.

Feeds

04:49

stackoverflow.blog/2020/09/11/…

John Dvorak

🚽

Dear Windows: Yes, I've been delaying that restart for a few days now. No, it's not appropriate to clickjack me to obtain a fake consent to restart. And if you do gracefully allow me to save the work in apps that don't just shut down or crash on request from you... do actually let me save the work before clickjacking me again.

... not that there's any work left to save after half of the system has decided to obey and suicide.

Rob

05:14

^ Few things nicer than VMWare Snapshot, dare I say it's better than pizza.

Meta Andrew T.

05:54

@Feeds Tavern 270: How blog articles can become onebox

Sonic the Masked Werehog

07:07

status-kaboom

status-needs-one-mor

status-dupe

rene

yeah

Sonic the Masked Werehog

(edited, was reply to wrong one)

rene

Important to get our administration right ;)

Sonic the Masked Werehog

I wonder what the mod message template is for the "asking programming questions on Meta" suspension reason

rene

You get one soon ;)

Journeyman Geek

07:20

There isn't one

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Ollie Fourth!

@MetaAndrewT. shot of luck.

Mithical

> Im 18 years old 5'4 tall and 53kg,

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Well this might be true, still a spammer. ;)

Skinny spammer.

mag

07:38

→ 23 messages moved to Chimney

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

08:08

@mag think you moved @rene's plz-delete requests to Chimney too... on purpose?

IMO they shouldn't be moved, only Smokey reports.

mag

oh

sorry

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

All good. ;)

rene

08:41

@ShadowWizardWearingMask @mag doesn't like blurry flowers ;)

Mithical

@ShadowWizardWearingMask no, @mag was right in doing that - obsolete delete requests get stuck there too sometimes

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Mithical 99.99999999999% of the messages here are useless, so based on that logic we should move them all to a different room.

It's all "get stuck" in the transcript.

That said, need something to get unstuck....

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardWearingMask brews a cup of Latte for @ShadowWizardWearingMask

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

And now for...

sdc tea Oll

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardWearingMask brews a cup of lemon tea for @Oll

Mithical

08:56

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Not so much "useless" as "moderation request that has served its purpose"

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Same as coffee requests...

And tea requests....

And ping requests for @M.A.R. who disappeared....

:P

Aibobot

Tea requests are srs

Aibobot

09:44

hm, I might need to ask a question on bricks if I have the time

for some strange reason all my questions are about spare parts

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Aibobot hope you won't ask on biology.SE then... :D

Aibobot

naw, Its @M.A.R. that has an extra kidney

rene

Milestone reached ....

3

Rob

10:19

Lucky 7 🍀

@rene Thanks for that query, there are 1000's on Stack Overflow!

rene

hmm, if it is that wide spread might as well put it in network-wide query

mag

10:49

Do y'all reckon I'd need to ask a SO mod and/or CM before starting to flag serial voting again?

Background being that these take a couple days to process usually and I don't want to have a mod or cm decide to decline all of them while I have 400 pending :P

rene

@mag maybe good to give SO mods a heads up. Do you have access to them somewhere?

@Rob network wide: data.stackexchange.com/meta.stackexchange/query/1293445 3268 cases

Rob

Thanks, not as bad as it could have been.

mag

11:07

@rene no

rene

@mag Okay, I pinged two of the SOCVR resident mods in our back channel and pointed them to your message. I assume they let you know. Or suspend you upfront. Up to them ;)

mag

Better a timed suspension then 400 declined flags

although hellban is no longer a thing it'd sting a bit more

@rene I was gonna start after work this evening. I'm pingable until then from now too :)

thanks for helping

rene

np, yw

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

11:36

@Rob where?

Rob

@Shad, previous comment.

@rene, your query isn't counting accurately - the original one (11 dupes) when ran on SO reports this user has 10 dupes (at least on one line), but very quickly eyeballing their profile I see a couple of dozen: stackoverflow.com/users/1067051/… and 6, stackoverflow.com/users/1067051/… - stopped checking there (busy).

Sometimes he has a duplication of a few on one, sometimes it's a duplication of several on one question, various amounts on different pages - definitely more than just 10 (could be 10 groups of however many each - which is a far greater total than 10).

Feeds

12:07

The Overflow #38: More threads than cores

Ryan Donovan on September 11, 2020

Welcome to ISSUE #38 of the Overflow! This newsletter is by developers, for developers, written and curated by the Stack Overflow team and Cassidy Williams at Netlify. This week, a look at the staying power of object-oriented programming, the olden days of backing up a hard drive to a ton of CDs, the top five most irritating web…

Rob

12:21

@Feeds Less threads than clothes: stackoverflow.blog/2020/09/04/…

Machavity

@mag I don't see any problem with it. If you're not familiar with Dharman, he's been trying to do the same thing. Could be worth coordinating efforts

Machavity

12:40

Well, to clarify, if you dump 400 in at once that might not the greatest. Maybe pace yourself too

rene

too late ...

Rob

I did 3 and they've been pending for four days - might be a surprise when you get the result of 400 (or even a dozen).

Machavity

And if you're not already aware, CMs are focusing the backlog this week

I've been slinging targeted voting notices myself this morning

rene

It was meant that the CM's would get the backlog done, not you adding more to the backlog ..

Meta Andrew T.

put another on the frontlog

Machavity

12:53

These are just notices to people that their voting schemes have been foiled by some meddlesome kids and their dog

mag

@Machavity Ooh, that'd be interesting

Do you know of any chat room he's interested in?

Machavity

He's a SOCVR regular

He's been playing with a bot he wrote

mag

i mean wrt pacing myself using up my 100 custom flags a day does count as a pace

you didn't specify what kind of pace...

Machavity

Heh. I wouldn't drop 100 a day in. Voting stuff is a feast or famine thing. Sometimes the tools make it clear they are socks or voting rings. But voting rings are also one of the most time intensive mod things out there

Spevacus

Got a serial voting reversal just today, which is pretty darn quick since I flagged less than a week ago.

Machavity

13:00

I had voting ring escalations from yesterday handled today. That's never happened since I got modded

2

Spevacus

Additionally, navigating to one of the posts that randomly got a downvote, everything seems normal. When I expand the vote totals (clicking the vote count number) the downvote that was there reverses, then when I refresh the page it has one higher score than before I checked the vote breakout.

I guess the vote totals for those posts don't get refreshed until something kicks them?

Machavity

There's a recalculation process that kicks off when any kind of reversal happens

I found a guy earlier this week who had a 2-year old sock and had done about a dozen upvotes and not got caught. So last month he rolled up 3 more and that caught our attention

Rob

These logs will burn before any others are finished:

Christmas Fireplace - 4K - Crackling Fire, Fire burning - 12 Hours

►

Machavity

When I nuked the old sock, all that rep went away, despite the age of the votes

Mithical

Protip: Don't use sockpuppets to vote for yourself in a mod election...

Spevacus

13:04

I've read tales of super deep-rooted sock puppet voting rings before. Kind of crazy the lengths to which people will go to to game the system.

gnat

> In total we have almost 600 unhandled CM escalations today. We do apologize for that. To remedy the situation, we have decided that the entire Community Team... will be exclusively working on CM escalation requests for two weeks, from September 8th to September 18th.

mag

@Spevacus I've seen people I flagged for a 100 rep incident lose 2000+ rep in the reckoning

can't see beyond what happened there but it must have been substantially bigger then that incident

Spevacus

Crazy.

Machavity

Largest voting ring was around 10k sockpuppets (was a long time ago). That's not an exaggeration either. I suspect a lot of mod and CM tooling got written to help catch that much earlier

gnat

@Machavity you can experiment escalating flag I raised at SO about 6 hours ago. This case is interesting because it's a recidive of a massive series (138 upvotes to single user, go figure) that was reverted just three days ago. As I mentioned recently at MSO, "folks who do it after it's gone can just restart and enjoy for yet another year knowing that their method gives them so much time to have fun"

mag

13:17

@gnat if you're interested in catching serial voting on a more systemic scale

I wrote some queries and dharman did too

Machavity

@gnat I've seen it floating around but I haven't had time to look into it. As I said, it's a time intensive process

mag

Back when Yvette was still consuming serial voting flags like a madwoman they still usually sat for a couple of weeks

I think I had over 300 pending at some point

she said at some point that it takes 30 minutes or so on average to investigate one

Machavity

@mag Let me see what the other mods would be comfortable with as a rate. 100 per day would fill the custom queue up really fast

mag

@Machavity If the rates didn't substantially shift it's around 60-100 cases a week that end up flagged for serial upvoting and voting rings, about 30-50 for serial downvoting if I start flagging that too

I see that Dharman has flagged quite a few and a few more yet end up caught naturally in other investigations but last time I cleared my backlog was in July 2019, so there'll be plenty of flag candidates for some months

Machavity

60 per week isn't bad IMO. If the tools verify they're socks, they go fast and Martjin does a lot of them every week, probably via the internal list

mag

13:26

I'd estimate there's a backlog of around 1200 or so users though

Machavity

Not surprising

Consider waiting on any major actions until the CM burn is done. I've had 5k serial voting rep reversed this morning alone. You might find some of them have just been waiting on invalidation

mag

@Machavity Might be a good idea. I'll keep it to cases from this week and last week on the weekend then (to test out the new tooling I write) considering a lot of the older ones might get swept up in the CMOcalypse

Ollie

13:51

@Machavity 5000?

mag

A lot of serial voting ring operators will vote for a lot of users including their targets instead of just their targets to make detection harder

not that it really does but they basically do a lot of drive-by upvoting in addition to actual sockfarming

Machavity

@Ollie Yeah

Ollie

Wow...

That's more than my total score right now.

mag

There's a guy that wrote a how-to guide to go undetected as a sock puppet operator on SO some time back

Machavity

@mag Most are not that sophisticated. I found one where the sock asked a question and the other socks (and master) answered and upvoted

mag

13:55

As in he literally wrote a tutorial how not to get caught and iirc has even also provided tooling to make that easier

Rob

Just wait until you lose a few hundred. @Ollie

mag

@Machavity I guess

That squares with the amount of guys who do exactly 5 votes across random questions on every weekday except friday for 3 weeks every day between 11:20 and 12:00

:D

numbers freely invented but a lot of them are like that

Ollie

@Rob hopefully I won't.

mag

I think I reported myself for serial upvoting at some point too

Journeyman Geek

lol

mag

13:57

as in for getting serially upvoted

Journeyman Geek

I think some folks might notice they got rep back

Ollie

The big green +1175 in the corner would help.

Or doesn't it show when serial votes are reversed?

Journeyman Geek

@Ollie I don't actually remember :D

Ollie

:D

Rob

It'll be worse for someone else, they drink a steady stream up upvotes (and gain a lot everyday) - when the wallop comes they'll be down years of rep.

mag

13:58

@Ollie I think you don't get a notification for minus rep but do for + rep

Journeyman Geek

@Rob apparently no one hates you that much :D

I didn't notice anything too off

Rob

It's true.

Ollie

@mag which is a shame.

Machavity

Serial voting reversal happens as an event in your voting. Vote invalidations do not show like that. The votes just go away and your reputation graph goes up/down

Journeyman Geek

@Spevacus I think yours was one of the last escalations we did recently :D

Rob

14:00

Prolly the bag of charcoal pictured in my profile keeps one group away, while not being too annoying to the intended recipients.

Spevacus

@JourneymanGeek Probably! Kinda nice to see that sort of nigh-instant feedback. Whoever sent the message when they dismissed the flag was nice, too. Whoever that was, tell them thanks for me <3

Journeyman Geek

:D

Oh that was probably me

Spevacus

Kinda looked like it was you, but I didn't want to assume.

Journeyman Geek

(flag stat fraud, ahoy!)

Rob

@Ollie You are on the top earners list for the week (along with many others): meta.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Reputation&filter=week - whereas top earners on SO have over several thousand answers: stackoverflow.com/users?tab=Reputation&filter=week --- don't be shocked if you lose some, sometime.

Ollie

14:12

I won't be shocked if I lose rep

I just hope it's not from serial voting.

Rob

Most I ever seem to lose is 10-40, don't think it's ever been more, but I've also got back ~70-90 rep in bits and pieces.

@Ollie Serial doesn't say "serial" it says reversal --- but "User Deleted" is what we are talking about (extra slow serial, cereal spoon fed).

user400654

cerial

Ollie

Depends what kind of cereal.

Rob

Cereal

A cereal is any grass cultivated (grown) for the edible components of its grain (botanically, a type of fruit called a caryopsis), composed of the endosperm, germ, and bran. The term may also refer to the resulting grain itself (specifically "cereal grain"). Cereal grain crops are grown in greater quantities and provide more food energy worldwide than any other type of crop and are therefore staple crops. Edible grains from other plant families, such as buckwheat (Polygonaceae), quinoa (Amaranthaceae) and chia (Lamiaceae), are referred to as pseudocereals. In their natural, unprocessed, whole grain...

Spevacus

@Ollie Eh. Even if you pick up a hater, it's unlikely that they'd do meaningful damage to your reputation. Your contributions are frequently well-received and far outweigh the downvotes.

Ollie

14:17

Bows to @Spevacus.

Thank you.

I'd like to keep it that way :D

Rob

We are talking about upvotes Spe (autocorrection made it yell).

Spevacus

will pay 4 the updoots

Ollie

Random question:

Is there any way to speed up Imgur processing?

The uploads are irritatingly slow.

Mithical

get faster wifi

Machavity

Get Fiber internet

Spevacus

14:19

download more RAM

Ollie

@Mithical that's impossible. I live in Vermont.

Rob

Sort of, upload to an answer and save the URL; abort the answer, paste it here.

See, they watch.

Journeyman Geek

lol

@Spevacus at some point, you stop worrying about the rep usually and worry about your contributions :D

and uh... I literally have had some downvotes I'm proud of getting ;)

Ollie

Really?

Downvotes you are proud of getting.

Journeyman Geek

@Ollie on meta, sometimes you gotta just... say the potentially unpopular but right thing

Ollie

14:24

Very good point.

Like meta.stackexchange.com/questions/353525/…

Although there are exceptions.

user400654

that's easy to say when you're unlikely to get suspended for it

Journeyman Geek

@user400654 Maybe :D

But people will yell at me when I mess up :D

user400654

;)

Ollie

I'll be going now

ta!

Spevacus

@JourneymanGeek Oh yeah, I kinda stopped worrying about rep once I hit around 2 or 3k or so... Once I got close to 10k I was actually a bit surprised. Didn't think I'd get anywhere close to be honest.

Journeyman Geek

14:27

@Spevacus I think 10 and 20k was a surprise :D

I was kinda looking forward to SU 100k ... MSE 100k I have no clue if they'll reinstate swag by then ;)

Spevacus

I look at 20k now the same way I viewed 10k: Almost entirely out of reach.

Not really focused on it. More focused on seeing how SE continues to grow.

Journeyman Geek

@Spevacus I tend to take the view that its just a matter of time and consistancy

and consistancy means you're doing it for the fun of it :D

Spevacus

;D

Journeyman Geek

10/20k was literally me posting an answer every day

Rob

@JourneymanGeek Your 47 downvotes (worst one) on MSE seems undeserved for a well thought out answer; but it was posted during the angry swell.

user400654

14:30

i sought 20k on SO, then just stopped caring about rep all together as long as it didn't impede my ability to participate. meta.se for example i forsee being a problem, because my rep only goes down. eventually i'll lose the ability to downvote again.

Journeyman Geek

@Rob and I felt it needed to be said

Rob

It wasn't out of line.

Journeyman Geek

@Rob and that's exactly what I mean by "potentially unpopular, but right thing"

Rob

It's a dog's life sometimes. :)

Spevacus

Ha!

Journeyman Geek

14:32

and tbh

I can take the hit on the short term

and people might remember and adjust their ways of thinking, which is what I really am after

Rob

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Dog%27s_Life_(film) - > "According to MGM records the movie earned $357,000 in the US and Canada and $152,000 elsewhere, making a loss to the studio of $848,000.".

Machavity

14:47

@mag Per the CMs, they don't think they can handle 60 a week yet. I would suggest 1-2 per day to start, prioritizing socks

Clear socks don't need escalation

Tim Post

Would love to find a way to compare our backlogs too, we might be putting a dent in that ~1200 you have cued up @mag - and see if we can figure out how to make it all more streamline.

As soon as we get out from underwater.

user400654

15:28

huh... clear socks.

sounds sweaty

Rubiksmoose

→ 10 messages moved to Chimney

Rob

@user400654 Seems likely:

OTOH, if you hate soggy socks ...

user400654

15:44

i was trying to imagine a... clear, but elastic/breathable, and durable... fabric of sorts. but i've never seen such a thing. Sheer fabrics ofc, but that's not exactly clear

always returns to some form of plastic-based result

Machavity

@Rob Dang Covid mandates...

Rob

15:59

@user400654 There is polyester, polyethylene, nylon, etc. but there's also mesh, silk, and tulle:

Do you want to look COVID resistant or pretty?

user400654

both?

Rob

16:17

@user400654 OK, here you go - but you gotta bring the pretty:

Body spray

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Rob That protects against COVID?

Rob

Read the instructions: Don't inhale before posting

Machavity

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Yes. If you breathe it in you won't live long enough to die from Covid

Rob

16:50

@user400654 More seriously: I think you're going the wrong direction looking for clear socks that are "breathable" and "durable" - with COVID protection. If there are holes it will let something through, and you're not going to walk outside in socks. You need to look at the footwear instead.

Suggest glass or acrylic slippers (Cinderella style) - "pretty" and functional - will resist foot punctures:

Those are more than a couple of hundred bucks for wearable glass slippers.

mag

@TimPost at some point I wrote up a whole document for yaakov to outline the way I find these and documenting my experience

If y'all are interested and care for it I'm around 2.5-3k cases deep in finding these, so I could help to make tools you can use directly instead of having it go through flags and then mods first.

I believe yaakov was working or looking to work on something like that too

Thomas Markov

17:32

@Glorfindel Hello from rpg.se

Saw you edited one of our posts, its good to see you pop in.

DavidPostill

17:53

Why would anyone want socks with Covid protection? The only risk would be if you likek licking feet.

> Touching a viral droplet on a surface, then touching your face (mouth, nose or eyes), can also cause an infection. These are the only entry points for the virus

If you keep your eyes, nose and mouth away from feet there is zero risk :)

user400654

i mean

for the same reason you'd wear gloves, if you had no hands/arms

John Dvorak

I wouldn't wear gloves if I didn't have hands!

DavidPostill

@user400654 It would be much easier to not touch your face with your feet, which is very difficult (unless you are a contortionist)

Feeds

18:57

The most important attributes of a vector in 3-space are {Location, Location, Location}

Rob

As you can see, it would be easy to pick something up from the floor and end up dropping it on your face. Let's not discourage exercise, as long as we don't have to do it.

M.A.R.

19:26

I THINK

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. therefore you are

M.A.R.

I can't be bothered to go check the pings. I just came to reinstitute my presence

I'm bored, what's new?

I saw that they were postponing stuff, was that good news or bad news?

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Machavity classic! Something Trump might say. :D

@ThomasMarkov he's kind of regular here. Hello! :)

@DavidPostill well that might be the most common fetish, so...

@M.A.R. YOU EXIST

@M.A.R. anti CORVID socks

@M.A.R. good for backlog, bad for projects

And my bad news: underwear package that I ordered didn't arrive. :(

John Dvorak

@ShadowWizardWearingMask ew

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Local in Israel

@JohnDvorak for you, for me, but for thousands upon thousands.... well, not ew. :D

M.A.R.

19:38

My bad news: I now have to start learning German grammar

@ShadowWizardWearingMask or ew but that's what makes it good

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@M.A.R. why.... ??

@M.A.R. didn't get that one?

The fetish is for the feet, not the feet being dirty.

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Let's just say English grammar is a pair of shorts and German grammar is a full suit and tie

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

I think? Pretty sure....

@M.A.R. don't go @Rob on me with cryptic messages.... ;)

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Gee, am I already too incomprehensible? CURSE YOU CAVE LIFESTYLE BLEUGHGHGHGBLEBLA

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@M.A.R. CAVE! TORCH! LIGHT!

chanting

M.A.R.

19:42

OOMBA OOOMBA BRING THE SACRIFICE

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

omg

> תאריך אחרון משוער לאספקה 14/09/2020

They still have three days.

Should read my emails.

Ollie

A self-portrait?

:D

M.A.R.

DAT TOO KIUTE TO B SACRIFICE

W NEED GRUESOME

Ollie

@M.A.R. Earwigs.

M.A.R.

Orders a big Mac

Ollie

19:45

Gruesome enough?

John Dvorak

quite the opposite. The best sacrifice is a nice fat healthy animal. A diseased sacrifice is an insult to your god.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Ollie yes! In a bad hair day! :P

Ollie

@JohnDvorak that is a good point. And I am the god.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Yay!

@Ollie as a god can you make the above delivery arrive faster? ;)

M.A.R.

Ollie

19:47

Although I'm vegetarian.

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask I know TWO words in that image

Ollie

@ShadowWizardWearingMask yes, but only if it's for me.

:D

M.A.R.

Hebrew master

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@M.A.R. yes, better.

@M.A.R. הזמנתך התקבלה?

M.A.R.

@Ollie The healthy kind I hope

Ollie

19:48

Healthy vegetarian?

M.A.R.

Not the kind that has forgotten how to eat and ends up malnourished in the 21st frigging century

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Bless you

Ollie

@M.A.R. Of course not.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Ollie well it's M

Sure it fits you?

John Dvorak

You can eat a healthy vegetarian diet. Ton of eggs. Or, if you're the wild one, soy.

Ollie

@JohnDvorak I do eat a ton of eggs.

And do CrossFit a lot.

M.A.R.

19:50

Wait, so I'm not all that sharp on terminology. Are all vegans vegetarians, or do they consider themselves another sect?

Ollie

And 100 meter dashes.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Ollie So M might fit.

Ollie

M?

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Size

John Dvorak

vegan = no animal products whatsoever. Vegetarian = no meat, but eggs are fine.

M.A.R.

19:50

I'm wearing XXL

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@M.A.R. not shirt

What you wear under the pants

:D

Ollie

Eyeroll.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Roll eye.

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask I dunno if I should be insulted or if you're referring to legit shorts

John Dvorak

I do wonder if it's possible to sport a pacifist diet - fruits and dairy are okay, but meat and vegetables are no-go because the creature dies if you do that.

Tomatoes are allowed.

Ollie

19:52

If it kills someone, I don't do it.

Usually.

Or something.

M.A.R.

@JohnDvorak That's one of the things that I don't get about the sentimentalist type that doesn't eat fish because poor fish

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Ollie the western culture as whole, the industrial world, is responsible for reducing the overall wild life on Earth in 70% in last decades. So, too late.

John Dvorak

I don't know about fish intelligence, but dolphins and octopi are pretty smart

M.A.R.

What makes fish more . . . sentient? . . . than a highly evolved plant?

Ollie

@ShadowWizardWearingMask which is a shame.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

19:53

@Ollie true, and too late to prevent it.

John Dvorak

highly evolved plants have hormones, but no neuronal system.

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask 70% might be too generous, because we're definitely not stopping now

John Dvorak

Still, they do have the ability to scream in pain.

Ollie

@JohnDvorak how would you know?

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@M.A.R. just something I read this morning, but yeah, it's getting worse.

M.A.R.

19:54

Yeah I was going to say that. You have crazy studies that say plants respond to their environment in a very sophisticated manner

John Dvorak

Fun fact: tomato plants make more noise when they're thirsty than when they're being trimmed.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Ollie he listens

Ollie

I do too!

M.A.R.

Do they need to have eyes to look smart?

Ollie

I just don't hear my kale yelling expletives at me when I pick it.

user400654

19:55

my potato plants vanished when i let the greenhouse get too cold

John Dvorak

@Ollie openculture.com/2019/12/…

DavidPostill

@JohnDvorak Not strictly true

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@M.A.R. and cows produce more milk when listening to quiet music. Israeli old trick.

DavidPostill

> Lacto Vegetarian

Lacto-vegetarians do not eat red or white meat, fish, fowl or eggs. However, lacto-vegetarians do consume dairy products such as cheese, milk and yogurt.
Ovo Vegetarian

Ovo-vegetarians do not eat red or white meat, fish, fowl or dairy products. However, ovo-vegetarians do consume egg products.

Ollie

Kale, I apologize to you.

M.A.R.

19:56

@ShadowWizardWearingMask And about milk . . . if you don't milk cows, won't it be very very hurtful for them?

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@M.A.R. no? I think? It's like milk in human mothers - they don't always give it to the baby, and it just go away naturally. It's not waste like urine.

John Dvorak

Fun fact, plants can also hear. One hypothesis says they listen out for insects that might want their nectar ... or their leaves.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Males also have something similar. :)

Ollie

sdc milk ShadowWizardWearingMask

SmokeDetector

@Ollie No such command 'milk'.

John Dvorak

19:58

genre preference of peas varies by study, but it seems they don't like silence.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@JohnDvorak but how they do it? Technically?

@Ollie eww

John Dvorak

@ShadowWizardWearingMask hairs on leaves

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

:P

Ollie

You started it.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

lol

Ollie

19:59

:D

M.A.R.

Another question: If a species was going extinct (due to natural shifts in the environment, not man-made) and humankind saves the species because it tastes frigging delicious, how wrong is the species being in a diet? (Assuming eating animals is wrong)

user400654

🚽

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@JohnDvorak but what process the sound? They have a brain?

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Aha. So does the milking process hurt cows/goats/camels/etc.?

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