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Journeyman Geek

04:52

→ 21 messages moved to Chimney

rene

06:08

→ 8 messages moved to Chimney

Shadow9

08:00

ugh... reputation is so BOLD now...

@user1271772 Thanks! How.... did you remember?? :)

@Magisch so no work this week? Company survives?

JAD

@Shadow9 well didn't we talk about bus factors last week? :P

Shadow9

@JAD ?

JAD

08:15

I think there was some discussion about Magisch being the only DPO for the company and the time/effort/money it'd take to replace him for whatever reason

Shadow9

oh didn't see it

Magisch

I'm still replying to emails and stuff from home

just not actively working

Mithical

Sounds like work to me.

Magisch

But yeah, they think because they sent me to that training that they can shunt all gdpr related stuff onto me

Shadow9

@Magisch no broken printers this time? ;)

@Magisch and they can't?

Magisch

08:18

they can

but if I move on eventually it'll be a steep learning curve for whoever has to take that over

Shadow9

meh, not your problem.

Magisch

people keep saying that :p

JAD

@Magisch well yeah, it kinda is your role. But at the same time when you're sick, maybe it'll have to wait :)

Shadow9

08:38

@Magi so, you get paid for those days while you're home?

Magisch

sick time is always paid

Magisch

08:58

well, not beyond 6 continuous weeks, after that your health insurance pays you (I think it's 80% salary?) instead of the company

but yeah, sick time is mandatorily by law always paid

Mithical

09:21

Does anyone remember which script added flag handled time to your flag history page?

rene

I don't have that script. Maybe one from @Glorfindel he has done scripts on that page

Mithical

09:42

just plopping this here. still not finalized dearstackexchange.com/strike

2

Glorfindel

@Mithical doesn't ring a bell...

Mithical

It might've been in SOX or something

BlueSoul

@Mithical you forgot the ads thing and the indirect attempt to tell developers that they are incompetent and they aren't able to recognize browser fingerprinting, don't know if you folks want to mention that too as an example of how the community was lied to.

Mithical

The ads thing is being worked on. The experiment is over for now, so it wasn't worth including

JAD

@Mithical huh, I must've missed that

BlueSoul

10:01

@Mithical Can you share any source? As JAD said, must have missed that too.

Anyway, the point wasn't the ads situation. My point was that after someone pointed out that the ads were performing fingerprinting attempts the company replied claiming that those were just "fraud detection". Which in turn prompted ex user Zoe to write this answer basically saying "we are able to understand what the code does, please don't try to fool us"

rene

11:32

I was trying to be welcoming but not appreciated by everyone

Cindy Meister

@rene Page not found...?

rene

yeah, deleted by SE staff but before that my edit was rolled back by another user.

BlueSoul

11:48

@rene well, your edit almost made the deletion unneeded. It had to be undone

terdon

Why? The edit made it into a useful, on topic question. It seems better to not delete it at all.

rene

We're all on the same page here ...

BlueSoul

@terdon I was joking. Of course it was useful - I am confused as you are.

terdon

@BlueSoul Ugh, sorry. Sarcasm detector fail.

BlueSoul

If you want, I can agree on helping to savage that and vote for undelete

rene

12:03

Do know I have a track record with this type of actions: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/293420/…

BlueSoul

12:16

@rene gonna respect the original author intent - never try to savage content that should be deleted into something useful.... Wonder why this same respect does not seem to apply when people post answers like "I know you can't use JQuery because you said so in the question but I am posting this JQuery based answer anyway because it may help someone else and gain me some pity vote".

#theWeirdSidesOfSO

rene

@BlueSoul yeah, we're weird.

JAD

because meta is #different

BlueSoul

@Magisch SCP is slowly spreading to Dreams

SCP-087

PM 2Ring

12:57

@Mithical I was going to star that, but maybe you don't want to make it too visible...

Mithical

@PM2Ring visibility is fine

PM 2Ring

@BlueSoul "savage" and "salvage" have rather different meanings. ;)

Mithical

worst / best case scenario, I ask @ArtOfCode to put a notice at the top that it didn't go into effect

BlueSoul

@PM2Ring kinda intentional - the edit was rolled back, so apparently someone thought it caused harm.

PM 2Ring

@BlueSoul Ah, ok.

@Mithical Hopefully, there'll be some tangible changes soon, in response to that data Yaakov posted. But I think it's good for management to know that an effective mod strike is a very real possibility. And Yaakov's data makes it pretty obvious that such a strike would have immediate visible consequences.

Mithical

13:12

@PM2Ring There's also a post scheduled for today, that aims to address most of the points outlined in the strike letter.

rene

What is currently the maximum number of teams for any SO for Teams user is in? Excluding SE staff maybe.

Do we expect that to be a double digit number?

PM 2Ring

I just had to escort a rather large huntsman spider out of my apartment: australianmuseum.net.au/learn/animals/spiders/huntsman-spiders At least, I think it was a huntsman. The leg span was about 10 cm. I know they don't attack humans, unless provoked, and they're good at getting rid of insect pests. But I don't feel comfortable having a spider that large living behind my wardrobe, where it's been for at least the last 3 weeks or so.

terdon

I honestly can't tell if that's the British love of understatement as inherited by Australia or if you honestly consider 10cm to be only "rather large". The first seems likely given Australia's history, the second seems likely given Australia's fauna.

Either way, eeeeeeeeeeek!

That would both fascinate me and freak me out.

Journeyman Geek

lol

@terdon we have golden orb spiders

@rene keeping track of more than a handful of teams/sites is hard

John Dvorak

huntsmen are harmless (to humans) and pretty smart

terdon

13:20

@JourneymanGeek WTF!?

> In 2012, a large individual was photographed killing and consuming a 0.5-m-long brown tree snake in Freshwater, Queensland.[3][4]

Journeyman Geek

@PM2Ring I have an utterly cynical view to that

@terdon and birds

terdon

source:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephila#Description

it's eating a humming bird? Seriously?

Journeyman Geek

@terdon Yuuuuup

John Dvorak

whatever gets stuck in its web and isn't poisonous

Journeyman Geek

Entirely harmless to humans. :D

terdon

13:22

@JohnDvorak Like cows?

John Dvorak

don't get stuck in spiderwebs

djsmiley2k TMW

@PM2Ring I'm not sure management care, still :/

@JourneymanGeek Harmless, but with literally chase you around the house with the flame thrower it's stolen off you.... ?

terdon

I often forget how lucky Europeans (Ok, most Europeans) have it when it comes to dangerous fauna. There's next to none of it.

djsmiley2k TMW

(i.e. Australian 'harmless')

Journeyman Geek

@djsmiley2kTMW well - if you think about it - management wasn't there

djsmiley2k TMW

13:23

@terdon we seem to have hunted it all down

bears, wolves, etc

John Dvorak

I've seen a vid of a tree frog getting stuck in a golden orb weaver web. The spider got a nibble, then gracefully snipped off the frog and let it go.

Journeyman Geek

one of the big things you'd notice is management 'renewal' of sorts

JAD

@terdon random cattle would probably be the most dangerous

Journeyman Geek

annnnddd.... the rest of this probabably is better on matrix :D

PM 2Ring

@terdon A bit of both. ;) The leg span can be as large as 15 cm, depending on the variety.

terdon

13:24

I remember my Colombian ex thinking that a crane fly was a mosquito. And I, the git, laughed at her ignorance until she pointed out that where she comes from, that's how big mosquitoes are.

djsmiley2k TMW

@JourneymanGeek that'll be good... :)

to both things :D

terdon

@JohnDvorak Not a french spider, presumably.

John Dvorak

it was one of those brightly colored frogs that you brush against arrows to add poison damage.

rene

@terdon don't forget the Humans ...

terdon

point

But that's a problem all over. Even in Australia. At least we don't also need to deal with other dangerous beasts.

JAD

13:28

and even then, I think in general humans are relatively safe to be around in Europe. (More so at least than 500 years ago)

(or 75 for that matter)

John Dvorak

Just to show how smart spiders are - if it's a grasshopper, they keep their distance until there's enough web that it can't move. If it's a butterfly, they just attach an anchor line and take a ride. Ants get a nice puffy sweater, houseflies only a back piercing.

PM 2Ring

@JourneymanGeek We also have golden orb weavers in Oz. But at least they prefer to live outdoors. And their neatly constructed green-golden webs look awesome in the morning sunlight. OTOH, those webs aren't fun to walk into. :) They can be very sticky!

Journeyman Geek

@PM2Ring with reference to large spiders :D

they don't get any bigger in overall size I suspect

John Dvorak

Interestingly enough, spiders have lungs, so they could get larger

PM 2Ring

It seems I've discussed orb weavers here before...

Oct 21 '19 at 16:28, by PM 2Ring

From time to time, people make fabric from golden orb weaver silk. Eg:

@JohnDvorak Some spiders do, but I don't know how well they scale compared to vertebrate's lungs.

@terdon OTOH, hardly any of Australia's native mammals are carnivores. So introduced carnivore mammals like cats & dogs can have a devastating impact on the ecosystem when they go wild. Feral cats have done a lot of damage here, especially to marginal zones on the fringes of the desert regions.

John Dvorak

13:38

Hardly matters if you have rats big enough to win a boxing match against a human :D

(note: not technically a rodent)

PM 2Ring

If you're talking about kangaroos, they are very unlike rodents, in terms of personality.

John Dvorak

I'm curious about the personality

(I do mean kangaroos, yes)

PM 2Ring

The wild kangaroos don't like humans to get too close. But they don't mind if we're say, 10 metres away and aren't making any threatening moves. If we get too close, they'll just hop away.

John Dvorak

ah, thanks

PM 2Ring

If they don't feel threatened, they're very sedate and laid back. It's peaceful to hang out near the kangaroos, soaking up the sunshine.

You can't exactly domesticate kangaroos, but they can be tamed, to an extent. When I was a kid, my aunt lived near a property that had a small mob of tame kangaroos. I spent many hours interacting with them at close quarters, and hand-feeding them grass. They're quite social and affectionate. But not very smart. There's not a lot of room for brains in those little heads. :) But hey, they survived ok without high intelligence before us pesky humans arrived.

terdon

13:52

@PM2Ring Oh yes, when I said "fauna" I was thinking of insects, spiders, reptiles etc. Not mammals.

What are australia's native mammals anyway? I can only think of the platypus but that's hardly typical. barely even a mammal! And what else? Dingoes were presumably dogs imported by Europeans, right?

Journeyman Geek

not europeans

IIRC polynesians or Melanesians

PM 2Ring

@terdon Don't forget the birds, eg en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassowary Getting close to a male cassowary when he's guarding eggs or chicks is suicidal. :)

terdon

Ah damn yes. You have "birds" too. Weirdos :P

Journeyman Geek

> The earliest known dingo fossil, found in Western Australia, dates to 3,450 years ago,[1][2][15] which led to the presumption that dingoes came to Australia with seafarers prior to that time,[16] possibly from south-west Sulawesi in modern-day Indonesia.[17] Dingo morphology has not changed over the past 3,500 years: this suggests that no artificial selection has been applied over this period.[15]

terdon

None of those are mammals though.

Journeyman Geek

13:55

according to wikipedia

this one isn't your fault :D

FOR ONCE

terdon

@JourneymanGeek Oh wow. So much for their being brought by Europeans then.

PM 2Ring

@terdon The Aboriginal people bought dingoes here many thousands of years ago.

terdon

I have to go to Australia at some point. Even if only to see some of the wildlife.

JAD

@terdon koalas

PM 2Ring

Most of Australia's native mammals are marsupials (most of the world's marsupial species are native to Australia), plus the monotremes: the platypus & echidna (spiny anteater).

terdon

13:58

Oh. Scratch that. I'm being an idiot. I was thinking marsupials weren't mammals. My bad.

JAD

fur -> mammal :P

PM 2Ring

@terdon They're definitely mammals, but they aren't placental mammals.

@JAD Feed young on milk from mammary glands -> mammal

terdon

Yeah. You'd think, what with having a degree in biology, I would know that sort of thing... Apparently, you'd be wrong.

In my defense, my thing is genes, none of this dirty, messy, multicellular crap.

John Dvorak

According to one theory, dinosaurs at one point had fur, just so that they could have something to evolve feathers from

JAD

@PM2Ring well, yeah. But that's not so easily seen when looking at a random picture. I think fur is a surprisingly accurate classifier (in present day)

John Dvorak

14:01

Come to think of it - fur and scales at the same time? Come on...

JAD

although there are furless mammals. But I think fur -> mammal is pretty accurate, at least in general

terdon

@JAD Oh yeah? Explain me this then:

(not serious)

JAD

that, or the down on young birds

but close enough :P

John Dvorak

That's a good point. Spiders have fur. Mygalomorphs, at least.

JAD

cue question about the distinction between hair and fur

do humans have fur?

terdon

14:04

I think there is some fundamental difference and it isn't, actually, fur. But I don't really know.

Sure looks furry anyway.

JAD

given phylogeny, there probably is a structural difference

terdon

yeah

PM 2Ring

Echidnas are really cute, but very shy. I've only ever seen one, outside of a zoo. It was in bushland not far from a major highway here in Sydney. When the echidna spotted me it started burrowing straight down, and it disappeared in a few seconds, like it was going down a pre-existing shaft.

JAD

especially since I doubt the spider's function is to keep warm

terdon

@PM2Ring Into mud, not dry soil presumably, right?

JAD

14:05

I think its function is much closer to porcupine's spikes

terdon

@JAD yeah, those will be sensory bristles but then so are our hairs.

JAD

just on a smaller scale, and thus fuzzier

I thought they are also used as irritants?

PM 2Ring

@terdon Dry sandy soil. They're amazingly powerful little diggers.

JAD

to be fair, this isn't my speciality either. I was more involved with cell biology

and even that is... 6 years ago now

terdon

@PM2Ring dang!

John Dvorak

14:07

@JAD Yup. Tiny abmomen-spears. Like porcupines do, except porcupines don't shoot them with their legs.

only some though. Some can't shoot them.

terdon

@JAD Yeah, well, I graduated from university in 2002... Since then, I've been working pretty exclusively with DNA stuff and no more whole creatures.

@JohnDvorak wimps

JAD

@JohnDvorak is that an XKCD-ism? :P

@terdon hmm, I moved on to statistics -> Data Science -> software

John Dvorak

@terdon that's why they point the only other spiky thing they have at you instead

JAD

or rather, am in the middle of DS/SW now

terdon

yeah, me too only I'm in the middle of genomics/software

PM 2Ring

14:11

A couple of years ago, I was trying to catch a juvenile wolf spider at my mother's house, to take it outside. At one point, it ran across the back of my hand. Its "fur" was amazingly soft & silky, softer than any mammal fur I've ever felt, including alpaca, which are very soft.

@terdon One day, my mum was chastising her eldest grand-daughter about not knowing how to knit or crochet. She retaliated that she's very good at extracting DNA. :)

JAD

which is pretty easy to mess up

so props

PM 2Ring

Yeah, despite all the technology, there's still some artistry to good lab technique. I guess that also applies to harder sciences like chemistry & physics too, but it seems to be especially important in biology.

avazula

14:27

@JAD Me too! Except I did electronics > data engineering > software :p

Although I'm more of a fullstack developer right now (which is not what I signed for, but still, it's fun). I should go back to ML in the next couple months

terdon

14:53

@PM2Ring ha! Nice :)

@PM2Ring woah, what? Define "harder".

In what universe is chemistry "harder" than biology?

The only interesting parts of chemistry left are either biology or physics anyway.

Journeyman Geek

There's an XKCD for this...

terdon

yes, yes, we know

But he's a Physicist, he's prejudiced.

Mad Scientist

@PM2Ring stuff in biology tends to be more fragile, cell cultures die if you just look at them wrongly. But there's also stuff in chemistry that is very sensitive like chemicals sensitive to oxygen, and working under nitrogen/argon also requires quite a bit of good technique

terdon

Anyway, joking and play-rivalry apart, I am actually curious. What did you mean by "harder" @PM2Ring? Harder in the sense of hard to do or harder in the sense of "hard science". I admit I don't quite see how either could be true.

@MadScientist I expect all experimental sciences will have some artistry involved when it comes to lab techniques.

Hmm. Maybe not high energy particle physics where I guess everything will be controlled by machines since no human can act at those speeds.

PM 2Ring

@terdon Hard == not squishy. ;) I certainly didn't mean it in the sense of hard being the opposite of easy.

terdon

15:01

@PM2Ring And why would you consider chemistry to be harder in that sense? (please ignore my previous outburst, I was just playing around. Answer freely and honestly, I won't be offended, you could well be right)

I don't really see how any of the "hard" sciences can be more or less hard than the others. I mean, "hard" essentially comes down to "can have reproducible results and hypotheses can be disproved through experimentation".

PM 2Ring

On the other hand, physicists like to say physics is to math as sex is to masturbation.

Journeyman Geek

That's the one :D

Mad Scientist

in this context "harder" tends to mean that it's about more well-defined and exact systems. In physics you can generally describe the stuff with some equations. In biology you have many more interacting parts in the system, it's not well-defined and there are many more factors outside your control.

terdon

Ah yes, true. In that sense chemistry (well, classical chemistry) can indeed be harder.

Biology is the science of shades of grey.

Mad Scientist

so "hard" would be e.g. calculating properties of a hydrogen molecule using quantum mechanics, and very soft would be studying the behaviour of humans

PM 2Ring

15:08

@terdon Well, traditionally, it comes down to how much of your science you can capture in nice neat mathematical laws. You can have a career in theoretical physics that mostly involves maths. Sure, maths is useful in all science, but there's a lot of stuff that can't be usefully reduced to maths. That's true even in physics: you might know the mathematical laws of some system, but it may not be practical to use those laws to predict what you want.

terdon

Yes indeed. If you look at it through the lens of "how well can this be abstracted into a mathematical model" most of biology would have to answer "not very", for the moment.

Way too much chaos and stochasticity.

PM 2Ring

@MadScientist Chemist (and blogger) Derek Lowe says "Never trust an organic chemist who can't cook". :)

terdon

Oooh, is he the guy from MIT who did that great pasta experiment demonstrating that it isn't necessary to have the water in a constant boil?

Ah no, different guy. I was talking about seriouseats.com/2010/05/…

John Dvorak

Cooking is easy if you don't need the result to be edible

Mad Scientist

@terdon No, he's the "Stuff I won't work with" guy

terdon

15:13

Dunno him then.

@JohnDvorak Yeah. Same principle as airplane landings.

Or surgical operations.

PM 2Ring

@terdon Here's Derek Lowe's most famous article, on chlorine trifluoride: blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2008/02/26/…

Mad Scientist

Things I won't work with

terdon

@PM2Ring damn, that stuff sounds freaky!

> There’s a report from the early 1950s (in this PDF) of a one-ton spill of the stuff. It burned its way through a foot of concrete floor and chewed up another meter of sand and gravel beneath, completing a day that I’m sure no one involved ever forgot.

o_O

John Dvorak

@terdon Patient still had 2ml of blood left when you inserted the heart in the proper location. And that's all that counts. Next up, brain transplant!

PM 2Ring

@terdon It's not the worst chemical known to humankind, but it's certainly high on the list. :)

John Dvorak

15:19

@PM2Ring look up "foof". Fun stuff.

terdon

@PM2Ring Sure sounds like a contender! Do you know of a worse one?

PM 2Ring

@JohnDvorak Indeed. And Derek's written about it as well.

terdon

Oh damn. That one also sounds like a barrel of laughs.

Mad Scientist

I like the stuff with more nitrogens than anything else in it, you can see from the structural formula itself that it's going to explode

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

Sadly sometime in the last year or so his site appears to've disabled the per tag RSS feed. Getting a notification once or twice/year was really convenient since I don't really care about his normal day to day pharma industry stuff

PM 2Ring

15:23

@MadScientist I was just about to link to that one. blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2013/01/09/…

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

You don't need the structural formula for that. Just the basic N(lots)C(few) is enough to know that bad stuff is going to happen.

PM 2Ring

the question is not whether such things are going to be explosive hazards. (That’s been settled by their empirical formulas, which generally look like typographical errors). The question is whether you’re going to be able to get a long enough look at the material before it realizes its dream of turning into an expanding cloud of hot nitrogen gas.

John Dvorak

> No one ever has to worry about inhaling dimethyl zinc; since it bursts into ravenous flames as soon as it hits the air, the topic just never comes up.

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

I want to know what the approval process for the experiments that proved it was hypergolic with test engineers

PM 2Ring

Lots of reactive fluorine compounds are not only nasty themselves, but they tend to produce hydrofluoric acid when they react with moisture, and that stuff is evil. It loves reacting with calcium, so it makes a mess of bones and nerves. As an acid, it's weaker than hydrochloric, and you may not notice it at first if you get a small amount on your body... until it hits your nerves.

terdon

15:33

@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight This sort of thing is why the Lawd gave us undergraduates.

PM 2Ring

They use tungsten hexafluoride in the semiconductor industry en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_hexafluoride and uranium hexafluoride in enriching uranium. Both of those gases are acidic, and produce hydrofluoric acid in the presence of moisture. Of course, uranium hexafluoride has the added bonus of being radioactive.

terdon

Suddenly, all that E. coli I had to handle at uni doesn't seem too bad ;)

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

or course Uranium's heavy metal toxicity will kill you before the radiation can do the job so meh. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

Feeds

15:49

New decade, new survey goals (& reminder to take the survey before it closes next week!)

Erin Martin on February 19, 2020

We’re two weeks into collection of data for our 2020 Developer Survey. If you haven’t yet taken the survey, be sure to do so before it closes on February 25th. Read on for background on this year’s survey, what we hope to achieve this year, and how you can help. Primarily, you can take the…

Mithical

0

Q: The company’s commitment to rebuilding the relationship with you, our community

My name is Teresa Dietrich. About a month ago, I joined Stack Overflow as Head of Product and Community. During my years as an engineer and technology leader I saw the impact this community and site has on people across the world and I am very excited to be here. While I have personally gotten a ...

10

user400654

16:15

meh

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

Still just words

Rubiksmoose

@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight Better words than we've previously been hearing though at least. So that's not nothing.

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

I'm not flaming or spite downvoting, but I'm well past the point where anything short of deeds will shift my trust meter

Rubiksmoose

@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight Sure, that's entirely fair.

Mithical

Personally, I like words. "The pen is mightier than the sword", after all. These are good words. Of course, it does have to be more than just words, but good words are a good start.

Rubiksmoose

16:20

[...] But SEI has also unequivocally had a communication problem with the community recently (or maybe even not so recently). This seems like a good step forward there at the very least.

Mithical

The first step in solving a problem is admitting there's a problem, after all

Rubiksmoose

Indeed.

djsmiley2k TMW

wow

someone who signs up is honest about having no real questions or answers

Magisch

@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight lets say this is a better apology then any of the previous ones, and actually comes with (the starts of) an honest analysis of what went wrong

12

an apology that does not show understanding of why what you're apologizing for was wrong is not worth much, which is why the previous ones were poorly received. But still, I'll hold judgement for a couple weeks considering they mention several actions that will be taken in that time

Andras Deak

also "I want to personally apologize", even though she couldn't have had anything to do with any of it

Magisch

16:31

what do you do if you walk into that role

people will think it stinks if you dont personally apologize, even if it's technically true

Andras Deak

I mean I think that's a plus for her and a minus for those actually responsible

she could've just said that mistakes were made

Magisch

she could have. But it wouldn't have been as successful

Andras Deak

of course

PM 2Ring

Yeah. She's saying "I wasn't here then, but I'm making it my responsibility anyway, and I fully intend to fix the damage".

8

Andras Deak

I wonder why Shog had to be thrown under the bus for this :(

4

Journeyman Geek

16:37

@AndrasDeak Some questions I suspect we'll never really know the answers to

PM 2Ring

Of course it's still too early to tell what will happen, but it's a promising start. I like the cut of her jib.

Magisch

@AndrasDeak tbh I doubt that was her decision. But still I hope they at least give him proper severance

and robert also

Journeyman Geek

Well, she took ownership

Andras Deak

@Magisch oh no, I didn't think that for a second

Magisch

I feel kinda bad for being pessimistic about her because of her previous employment and McKinsey

PM 2Ring

16:41

She did take ownership. But let's see how she delivers on the stuff she's promised will happen over the next couple of weeks. And once she's demonstrated that we can trust her, then we can ask her what the hell happened with Shog & Robert.

Andras Deak

if it weren't for the Shogpocalypse I'd be quite optimistic

3

no way anybody will ever tell us what happened to them

Mithical

...except for maybe Shog or Robert

Magisch

I'm hoping (perhaps against hope) that they'll address that we felt strongly enough that they screwed shog out of a severance that we put up 10 grand (!) ourselves.

Max Vernon

@Mithical I imagine they're under a pretty serious gag order though.

PM 2Ring

@Mithical No, they're too well-mannered to tell tales.

Mithical

16:44

@PM2Ring Have you seen Jon's Twitter threads or Shog's messages in Discord? (:

PM 2Ring

@MaxVernon A gag order without severance? I doubt it... But I Could Be Completely Wrong.

@Mithical I've been following Jon's Twitter threads sporadically, but I'm not on Discord.

Max Vernon

@PM2Ring no severance? that's hard to imagine.

Rubiksmoose

@PM2Ring It's enlightening.

Andras Deak

Jan 17 at 22:11, by George Stocker

To be clear about Shog: he didn’t know the GoFundMe was coming. He didn’t know i would do that. I spoke to him the night before it started and found out several things, but the relevant one was they were going to give him 8 weeks severance with onerous conditions for 10 years work

Magisch

@Rubiksmoose shog stated previously that they offered a couple of weeks of severance with a serious gag order

and he didn't take it

Mithical

16:47

George Stocker started a GoFundMe to pay for severance for Shog so that he wouldn't be forced to accept conditions that included a gag order

5

Rubiksmoose

@Magisch Yup I saw that. And a lot of the stuff Shog has said that probably would have violated that order lol

djsmiley2k TMW

@Magisch cry.

Andras Deak

17:29

I tend to agree with this answer. I like nice words. I'm a big believer in nice words. I try to write nice words... But it is actions that tell you whether nice words are sincere. There is a certain action the company must take which has been pending for several months... It could be done well, or it could end up being another slap in the face for the volunteers who've dedicated so much time here. I will withhold judgement on these words until I see how that action is taken. — Shog9 59 mins ago

3

got me curious

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

18:09

@AndrasDeak me too. The big question is if it's going to be obvious to us if they choose wisely, or only if they slap us again.

Journeyman Geek

@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight Since I'm contractually obliged to make dog metaphors. We're like the dog that has been whipped so many times, we associate the leash with beatings not walkies.

and winning that trust is going to be difficult. But well..

Andras Deak

you just need a treat or two

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

18:25

at this point I'd assume the treat is just to lure me close enough for another beating

Journeyman Geek

@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight there's a local dog that's afraid of males, and somewhat agressive

New owner managed to get him slowly at ease with him, more social with other dogs...

but it takes intent, patience and a lot of work

Max Vernon

@JourneymanGeek bacon works well, too

πάντα ῥεῖ

BTW: Was Sara C. replaced from her position meanwile reagarding this?

terdon

@πάνταῥεῖ Why?

From my (very limited and possibly completely wrong) understanding, this is Sara C's boss.

πάντα ῥεῖ

18:42

@terdon Sara C. Product Manager of community management? I am not that well versed with the SE Inc. hierarchy.

Mithical

the hierarchy is a bit of a mess from what I understand, from my vaguely-remembered peek at the flowcharts of the structure

Bryan Krause

@terdon My title is Chief Product Officer and I report directly to the CEO here. I have responsibility for Community with the Community teams now in my org. I have responsibility for all of the Products including Public Q&A Platform as well as Talent, Ads and Teams. Does this clarify while meeting the very briefly request? — Teresa Dietrich 25 mins ago

terdon

Me neither, but Teresa is a top tier manager, as in listed as part of the management team and having a C position, while Sara C is not.

Journeyman Geek

@πάνταῥεῖ ^ what they said :D

PM - was Megan and Joe

πάντα ῥεῖ

OK, there is always a chief :D

Journeyman Geek

18:44

well its a newish role actually

Mithical

remember Joe popping into the TL? that was nice

Journeyman Geek

@Mithical I miss Megan a fair bit :/

terdon

Oh, I didn't mean to imply Sara isn't a good manager or anything, I have no idea. By "top tier" I was referring to the SE hierarchy and not anybody's quality as a professional.

Journeyman Geek

Also at one point the community team might have been under engineering.

Notice she said " I have responsibility for Community with the Community teams now in my org."

We'll see what that means :D

terdon

"In my org" presumably means "under me", right?

πάντα ῥεῖ

18:46

@JourneymanGeek I appreciate that very well so far though.

Journeyman Geek

@terdon the "Now" is interesting :D

@terdon pretty much

@πάνταῥεῖ If memory serves, Sara is the Director for Public Q&A

πάντα ῥεῖ

Seems there was a lot of fire and hire actions going on at SE Inc. recently. I lost following a bit ...

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