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04:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

7:01 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ The new CEO made quite a few changes at the top, which is probably what you'd expect
@πάνταῥεῖ We lost a bunch of good people, there's a lot of transition on top, and stuff is going to take a while to settle
At the end of the day though - the organisation is more than one person, no matter their short term impact
@MadScientist Of course that's something expectable. But probably decided prematurely.
@πάνταῥεῖ they also need time to settle in
@JourneymanGeek Yes, and I am a bit of sad how that affected those (IMO) good people. :(
@πάνταῥεῖ which is why its worth remembering that Shog's been urging calm, and not attacking folks all through this
7:05 PM
The only CF that comes to my mind in this context Charlie Foxtrot
@JourneymanGeek That's one thing I absolutely agree!
And who knows... maybe Shog9 gets rehired. A new corporate person might look at that and have the same reaction we did
@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight I doubt that's going to be very constructive
Constructing a pile of stuff is just as much fun today as when I was 3 and playing in the dirt
and unless I see them start acting to fix things I don't really care about anything else
1 message moved to Trashcan
7:10 PM
:8245800 @Shog9's world is open IMO. One of the best data analysts, and keeping social impacts on track.
10 messages moved to Trashcan
I remember over a dozen times, over the decades, where there was a person (or a few) whom I dealt with at a company. One day (in each case) when I went back and asked for them I was told that they no longer worked there. I simply said "Thanks.", turned around, and left. Never once did I complain, or pitch a tent in their parking lot; nor did I return. No loss to me.
@Rob Here's the funny thing about SE - its as much a community of people as much as a company. People form bonds - swap stories. Even in some cases when communities leave embittered, they still keep track of happenings here
It's like when you're friends / dating / whatever with someone and everything is fine. Then you don't see them for a year or two. Then they come back. They can think "that's OK", you can think "that's OK" - but really, is it ever?
7:26 PM
The issue was never "Will SO regret their actions here?". The issue was always how fast they would get there. Maybe third time really is the charm. And without lawsuits
nah, according to new tradition we'll all be brought to arbitration for ruining the company ;)
Will we be flown in to attend a court hearing?
I hope so!
Arbitration is just... weird. It's like millennials were asked to re-envision courtrooms, where the judge sits at a table with everyone else, wearing a polo shirt and khakis
Except that the Judge is paid for by one side and almost always rules in favor of getting another job from the person paying for the session.
7:36 PM
@It'sOver Ping!
Some stuff is going on and my attention span doesn't allow me to check
Apology number 12 or something
@It'sOver from someone who has the power to actually change things
The royal "we"s have become "I"s
@It'sOver Do or do not, there is no try. There are no fries either. WHO ATE MY FRIES?
7:38 PM
@JourneymanGeek Is dead, Yoda
I don't take advice from dead people.
Unless it's Hawking
> I want to personally apologize for our actions or inactions, as the case may be, in the past that had a negative impact on our relationship. While specific recent events may have individually caused harm, years of neglect and a growing distance from our community lead to those events and it will take conscious effort to repair the damage.
What am I seeing? O.O
I'm not sure either :D
> I will share the Q1 roadmap with you all within the next week in a blog post and will take part in an accompanying Meta discussion.
@Sha loves deadlines
We should set a @Sha reminder if this isn't followed
Google Calendar is for noobs
@doppelgreener I have read it, but I would like to understand better how we got here and how we can go forward. The letter is a start but would you and others be open to having a conversation with me and some of the team to learn more and figure out a path forward? — Teresa Dietrich 33 mins ago
Or todoist. Or that other thing, what was its name
What we see is someone who may be sincere or may just be a better prevaricator than other management), and who may or may not actually have the authority to deliver on promised changes if sincere.
7:43 PM
@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight she reports to the CEO...
@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight Aye
Yet, on the first read, I didn't notice any objectionable statements
SHe has the authority. And well, why not give her a chance? At worst, we just go through more of the same stuff
@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight I don't think authority is the problem in this case
@It'sOver someone who looked at the situation, without prejudice
Reporting to the CEO doesn't mean anything. A former employer kept hiring new execs who promised to change stuff for the better but who were never able to deliver because the CEOs cronies were the problem.
7:44 PM
@MadScientist Well, some competence comes into play.
@djsmiley2kTMW Someone went "All this is wrong" and reached out to people, got the data, and made sure it reached the right people :D
.... clearly the people here before the ceo, weren't exactly great (I''m talking upper management here)
Cold warriors may have been optimistic enough to Trust But Verify, at the moment I'm at Distrust But Verify
@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight Well, I don't think we disagree on anything about moving forward, other than what's simply personal choices
Nobody blindly accepts these words just yet.
I see someone that did read meta and opined based on what meta wanted.
Some liquid was poured onto the fire, we just need to wait to see if it was oil or water.
@djsmiley2kTMW Well, Joel always was bad regarding that.
7:48 PM
I see someone who doesn't think the world is out to get them
@πάνταῥεῖ Eh, Joel did some clever things
Team Chaos for example
Has Ms. Cellio said anything about this?
I'd guess not, too soon, or late, for anything of the sort
Still, it'd be great to hear from her, Shog, Jon, . . . I guess the leading cast
Yes she commented as did Shog
Shog was here, several hours ago.
7:57 PM
leading cast ... the blockbuster movie for this summer ....
Jon, the past two weeks.
@ReinstateMonica-M.Schröder if Teresa wants to talk I am certainly open to that. The agreement does not forbid it. She sounds sincere about wanting to fix things, and if so she should want to reach out. My contact info is public. (I was alerted to this post.) — Monica Cellio 2 hours ago
Q: The company’s commitment to rebuilding the relationship with you, our community

Teresa DietrichMy name is Teresa Dietrich. About a month ago, I joined Stack Overflow as Head of Product and Community. During my years as an engineer and technology leader I saw the impact this community and site has on people across the world and I am very excited to be here. While I have personally gotten a ...

@Rob Why are you posting that here again?
it's been pinned for 4 hours
So you can ask about it
7:59 PM
less has gotten people ignored, you know
@AndrasDeak To remind us that post oneboxes work but Twitter oneboxes don't.
It's really painful that I have to turn on a slow VPN to read a dad joke
I appreciate that this post has a fairly specific schedule for some upcoming items. Just sticking to those scheduled items (and keeping them coming) would be the first and biggest step in showing that these are actions and not just words. — hazzey 3 hours ago
Hear, hear
So . . . What else is new.
Also, for completeness, Shog9 words
I tend to agree with this answer. I like nice words. I'm a big believer in nice words. I try to write nice words... But it is actions that tell you whether nice words are sincere. There is a certain action the company must take which has been pending for several months... It could be done well, or it could end up being another slap in the face for the volunteers who've dedicated so much time here. I will withhold judgement on these words until I see how that action is taken. — Shog9 4 hours ago
My rep is too round. Can someone upvote me please
@It'sOver There's some post on meta about the company's commitment. Someone should post it here so we know which one to look at, I'm not sure.
8:05 PM
(Or downvote, rep looks like an inflated balloon with +10 for questions)
@Machavity That is a very Shoggy comment
@AndrasDeak Can I post new things?
Q: Please apologise properly to Monica

GS - Apologise to MonicaTeresa Dietrich asked moderators who have resigned or suspended activity to post on Meta if issues remained unaddressed. I haven't done resigned or suspended activity but I am a moderator and as indicated by my current username, my relationship with the company remains substantially fractured as...

Will make HNQ yessir.
that isn't a feature
And acknowledge the mistreatment of non-cis-straight users. That should always go hand in hand with acknowledging wrongs against Monica.
I hate how that fake outrage is shoe-horned into every discussion that occurs. Nothing will ever be enough to appease that crowd.
Which one is "that crowd"?
8:22 PM
The people that bring it up. over and over. every time theres ever any indication of possibly moving in a good direction.
You're setting the entire process up for failure
that situation is done with
So what is "it" that "that crowd" brings up?
the path forward is outlined
That needs gentle handling
which is why i'm not going to fall for defining it.
you've avoided the trap of clear communication
8:24 PM
i mean, unless you've been living under a rock (i'm absolutely sure you haven't, and know the situation as you've been here the whole time) you know the answers to the questions you're asking.
Those things concern folks and maybe it could be worth remembering
...pretty sure what the main point here is if you're referring to the people who bring up Monica or the people who bring up the Lavender issues.
@user400654 No, I honestly don't. You're either talking about Monica's situation or the situation of LGBTQ+ users. So yeah that ^
But sorting out those is part of a much wider need to regain trust
and honestly your words ring quite differently depending on what you're talking about
8:26 PM
@AndrasDeak why not both?
@JourneymanGeek that's also a possibility
Or the wider damage to.thr community?
@user400654 It's tiring, for everyone, yes.
All these are symptoms of a deeper malaise. They're important to remember but it goes beyond sorting out the immediate issues
8:27 PM
malaise always reminds me of mayonnaise
Reminds me of Malaise-ia.
They've apologized. What more could you or anyone want? your intended changes to take precedence over anyone elses? iunno, what else could you want other than more authority
That one poor country that keeps getting one natural disaster after another
@user400654 Well, it's a "fool me once . . ." thing
It's not remotely the . . . tenth time (?) we've seen this intoxicating pixie dust of hope
@It'sOver and unnatural
@user400654 hopefully real change 😁
8:29 PM
that's part of the problem though
what changes?
Only to be bulldozed, with the land surrounding it, in a week
@user400654 Nothing.
Well a lot of this started with a handful of people in the company
What changes could pushing the LGBTQ+ and/or monica problems possibly bring that the entire community would want or benefit from? promote those instead.
i don't think requesting a 4th or 5th apology is going to fix anything.
8:31 PM
me neither
I don't want to be judged later as part of the crowd that sat gloomily in the corner and hissed and sneered when real change was happening. No one does. But now, after so many turn-downs, it's only natural to be conditioned into not expecting change.
Nonetheless, whatever we say won't change a thing, until we see the initiative always spoken of the last two dozen times but never really taken
@Feeds didn't some trade app company get found out doing EXACTLY that? XD
They identified terrible investors, and when they 'invested' they would just shuffle the money off to one side
Thankfully, next week Wednesday or something is gonna be the due date for the first deadline. Let's see what happens then.
if there was a huge loss, when they sold the stocks, they kept the difference
(and no stocks were actually brought or sold, but the people were so reliably bad at trading, the company would profit)
@It'sOver well there's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy
8:38 PM
@AndrasDeak we chemists call it a autocatalytic reaction, don't be so mystical
Well, chemists-in-training
Well, pharmacists-in-training
Lol, you did downvote
And they say meta is humorless, ah I needed that
@It'sOver hmm?
@AndrasDeak No I mean plural you
35 mins ago, by It's Over
(Or downvote, rep looks like an inflated balloon with +10 for questions)
Plural me?
@It'sOver High all the time??
@AndrasDeak Don't try to hide it, we know of your army of clones
@πάνταῥεῖ I can neither confirm nor deny that
Anyway, I find myself again on Skeptics
Q: Are pomegranate seeds edible?

Michalis P.My dad usually eats cherry seeds, which seemed dangerous to me, so I searched it online and indeed it can be dangerous. Today, I was about to eat a pomegranate but I wasn't sure if the seeds are edible. My parents said it's okay. But that's what they said for the cherry seeds as well. So I search...

8:43 PM
why would you eat seeds anyway
seems kinda like asking if it's safe to eat tree bark
@It'sOver ask Persephone
@user400654 it is? Yay
@AndrasDeak don't give her any ideas
@user400654 Well in the case of a pomegranate presumably they are talking about the hard kernel inside pomegranate seeds. As far why you'd eat them, poms are delicious and the hard bart impossible to separate without destroying the fruit.
We already had enough of The Happening
Wait. How can you not eat pomegranate seeds?
8:48 PM
@terdon If you eat the skin I guess
I mean sure, you can spit some out, but that's also cumbersome. I guess I must swallow ~50% of the seeds or so.
The only skin more annoying is grapefruit's, but I can't eat grapefruit
To those suggesting that the company never gets feedback from Meta in the current days: here's your counterexample
@terdon Well, I see it just as a concerned citizen spewing bullshit about cyanide in fruit, which is not a new claim. There was also that glyphosate thing, and others
Recently, one of these concerned citizens warned everyone on TV that milk has this poisonous substance whose name I keep forgetting or I'd Google
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog It's almost like someone had an epiphany
8:52 PM
I don't think the yellow was that bad but maybe because I got used to it.
The spacing was terrible though. I never got used to that
The spaces before and after the quoted paragraph, I mean.
A: Dear Stack Exchange: a statement and a letter from your moderators

Yaakov EllisTeresa Dietrich, the Head of Product and Community at Stack Overflow, has posted on the company’s commitment to rebuilding the relationship with you, our community which (in addition to the other points that it covers), is intended to serve as a response to the Dear Stack Exchange open letter ref...

They should consult Tchrist on that
I do wish they'd fix line returns in spoiler blocks, tho. Having to shove <br> everywhere is a pain
9:37 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog words, words, words...
@canon seen George's decomposition of Teresa's post? Much more words!
where? I haven't caught up yet
He makes some okay points and some that I strongly disagree with
ah, twitter. ty
1 hour later…
11:02 PM
@Machavity ask Makyen for a userscript ....
11:17 PM
I think I didn't manage to link to the start of the thread, but anyway it's an interesting, if somewhat sombre take by Jon Ericson
> and was hampered by a directive to not compile a timeline of events shortly after they happened.
Now that is evil. Smoking gun.
There's no way to frame that as good-faith
Well - it's also a great counter example on doing things
"If you can't lead by example at least you can serve as a cautionary tale"? Your optimism is fascinating :P
11:34 PM
3 hours ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
To those suggesting that the company never gets feedback from Meta in the current days: here's your counterexample
i mean, so they're making blockquotes worse.
Well, contrast ratios for blockquotes were terrible on some sites pre-2018 redesign.
and we'll instead get something that makes it incredibly easy to overlook that something is in fact in a block quote
how again is this an example of the company listening/doing things?
Well...it is doing something
they also routinely advertise teams in the banner
that's doing something
11:43 PM
Gotta keep the lights on
@user400654 If you join SOBotics or Charcoal, you'll stop seeing the banner.
the teams?
would that not then force the UI to show teams shtuff everywhere i go?
Both in the SO and dictionary sense.
@user400654 No, you'd just see a link to your own Team, but it would be a relevant link, not an ad.
11:44 PM
my "team"
the thing that's cluttering up the left menu
Just turn off the left menu
it is off
i'd rather it be useful
@user400654 also teams posts on the top of front page
@user400654 If you join a Team, it'd be completely useful
it wouldn't be
because neither of those teams are useful to me.
it just really annoys me that the left menu is designed specifically around supporting a feature 99% of users don't use. I want absolutely nothing to do with teams and get rid of mentions to it every way i can, but I can't return the left menu to functioning like it does on every other non-SO stack.
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