Tavern on the Meta

user1306322

00:15

why not

userscripts can help you achieve that

user400654

has someone written one?

user1306322

you, in the next 4 minutes? :p

user400654

i can adblock the team crap, but i'm left with "Public" and the links are all mislabled.

yea, no

user1306322

alright

user400654

i'd rather not use it and rely on keybinds

user1306322

00:16

there are key binds?

user400654

yup

gotta enable them in your preferences tho

user1306322

oh I'd rather not accidentally navigate away from the editor or something

user400654

g h for example takes you to the home page, g q questions, gm meta, gm main (if you're at meta)

user1306322

yea I'll just keep clicking as always

user400654

though i only use the questions page on meta to see recently closed or downvoted

user1306322

00:19

old.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/f6auhg/… I'm not sure this explanation of the problem is correct

to me it seems like in any given community with too many askers and not enough experts there will always be a lack of "the meat" in comments (or answers in Q&A area)

user400654

unfortunately... there's no g r to go to reviews

but i don't use that anyway

well, SO combats that with gamification.

the problem is... if you can't keep people long enough, you end up with "the blind leading the blind"

like, it's reaaaaaaly easy to hit 20k rep and run out of things to earn rep for

on SO

user1306322

on SE you have a chance to discover other communities via Hot Network Questions and kinda get into the areas where other newbies and experts reside, but only for programming topics, like Programming, CS, Code Review in addition to the main SO site

user400654

i don't like HNQ, it drives attention to questions that aren't generally... good. they're more often interesting, funny, etc, but not things that people actually need.

user1306322

in terms of subreddits, I don't know if experts browse a large number of subreddits to seek interesting threads to contribute to

I was thinking maybe pushing multireddits (you see the same design page as a single subreddits, but it contains posts from multiple subs) could help with discovery of different posts around the same topic

user400654

i think the new blog initiative highlighting active topics falls for the same problem. they're often silly or useless questions that just happen to have some gotcha that someone with a following decided to tweet about.

user1306322

00:25

like if you don't only want newbie questions like "how to get started with X" you can add spice to your browsing experience by adding more subs and bookmarking that multireddit collection as your default home for "gamedev-related"

but idk if it fixes the problem

user400654

well, i find the home page algorithm on SO to be very good for finding interesting questions.

but it's based on my own browsing habits

user1306322

yea the blog highlights are a misused marketing tool to attract more readers, but not create high quality content

user400654

i can't take my version of the home page and share it for others to benefit from

V2Blast

@Machavity You can just add 2 spaces (and hit enter) at the end of each line where you want a line break... But yeah.

user1306322

well, yea, if you have already developed (and discovered in the first place) browsing habits that give you interesting content, you're good to go, but how do you make it easy for others, or rather how do you just give out the most interesting on average posts by default for everyone?

user400654

00:27

you could try to build up a query that gives you the same result using the custom filtering on /questions, but i never could come close to the kind of quality i get from /

user1306322

what is the difference between what you click on / and what's on /questions?

user400654

/ (when you are logged in) is catered to you based on how you use the site. what questions you visit, vote on, answer, ask, comment on, etc

user1306322

oh really... hmm

is the algo for that public?

user400654

If you go to your site preferences, you can download the activity that it is basd on

user1306322

I'd rather see the algo and maybe tweak the query to my preferences

user400654

00:30

it was done many years ago, i forget who announced it

user1306322

it's probably based mostly on tags and maybe score adds a bit to the weight

V2Blast

@user400654 Pretty sure the point is that they're asking before rolling out this change. Which does at least seem positive. I agree that removing the background for blockquotes is not an improvement, but in general I do prefer when we're asked this stuff rather than being told only when the change is being rolled out.

@user1306322 Yeah, subreddit discovery is currently pretty bad. I think Reddit's trying to improve it, but I suspect the effect has been marginal at best.

user1306322

they slowed down rotation of posts throughout the day significantly in the last year or two, compared to before that you could go to home page several times a day and see completely new posts, now it's just once a day

V2Blast

And Reddit's structure as basically either a link aggregator or a discussion forum does indeed not lend itself well to a Q&A format or a connecting-experts-to-learners format.

user400654

ti is heavily based on tags, but not just your favorited tags

V2Blast

00:33

Anyway, time for me to play some D&D

later all!

user1306322

ooh have fun

V2Blast

danke

user1306322

so, reddit doesn't have "tags" inside subreddits, and I think this creates a problem for subs whose topic range is very limited and moderation is too strict

user400654

like, for a period of time i visited firebase questions often, now i get firebase questions on my home page from time to time

user1306322

on SE we can get a range of topics related to the main topic of the site to keep the experts entertained enough to stay and maybe eventually expand into other tags

user400654

00:35

same with AWS. but it also shows a number of completely unrelated topics, to give you the opportunity to broaden your horizon

user1306322

but SE doesn't have a problem where users flood the site's "front page" with basically free advertisement spot posts, whereas on Reddit it's what you get if you allow self-promotion

user400654

i mean, it used to, in a sense

before it was replaced with marketing

user1306322

SE has a duplicate closing feature where if you try to advertise your software under the pretense of a valid question, it eventually becomes impossible as you run out of valid non-dupe questions to ask yourself and then asnwer with an ad link to your product

on reddit, you can basically "repost" new gifs and screenshots for your upcoming/new game forever without throttling and this makes people lean towards complete ban of these posts

some subs do throttling via moderation but it's tough and not very successful

few regular users go to those subs and they're basically dedicated only to those posts

to have a wide range of topics you have to visit multiple subs individually

reddit doesn't have a tight coupling between subreddits at all, but the same is true for different sites for CS / code review / SO

user400654

I’ve never heavily used reddit

I browse it using google only

user1306322

I kinda browse SE using google only also :p

It's Over

00:42

Reddit is the prime example of Sturgeon's law

If 90 was 99.9 instead.

user1306322

I'm thinking what would the effects be if both SE and Reddit created a new "home page" section for a range of topics, like for programming on SE you'd get 5 recent active questions with >1 score from all the programming-related sites

It's Over

I admit, I'm more of a lurker than a user, but I can't get myself to participate much because what I'm interested in either has crickety empty subs or bland, useless busy subs

user1306322

I guess SE doesn't have many related subs, others would be entertainment ones such as Gaming, Anime, Movies... maybe something else

It's Over

@user1306322 I think SE aims to be more specific towards its content

user1306322

@It'sOver I never post myself but I've been reading avidly af for like 5 years now

It's Over

00:44

Specific draws the experts.

user1306322

sure, but what if this was an official option

you can always do these things with scripts and whatnot but maybe this will make it easier for users to discover interesting posts

It's Over

On the topic of me finding busy subs boring, for example, I'm no expert chemist or biologist for sure but I'm still looking for something more interesting than "zomg elephants have tusks AND cells" or "this reaction is funny, video"

So r/chemistry and r/biology are very rarely interesting.

user1306322

I usually just browse top posts of all time and if the top 10 are not interesting enough, it's not worth scrolling down

It's Over

The popular HNQ effect being very dominant over there. Much simpler questions get much more of the attention

@user1306322 Huh, I don't remember if I ever did that.

user1306322

there's the curse of default subs where people from facebook seeking funny and clickbaity posts without much substance to them turn every sub into a useless shell of its former self

apparently there's money to be made in selling accounts with lots of karma, since it grants them higher visibility on the front page, which means ad clicks

It's Over

00:49

Tell me about it

user1306322

a reddit browsing tip: I installed RES (reddit enhancement suite) which allows you to filter the subs you don't want to see, like politics, sports, city-specific subs, sports-team-specific subs, etc

funny cats, dogs, snakes, spiders, dankest of the dank memes

It's Over

Nice

user1306322

yea I used to post on the RES development sub because I had too many filters for the addon to chug through, they've fixed it since

It's Over

But I hardly get time to visit these chats these days, I won't find any for Reddit

Anyway, I gotta sleep. Good night!

user1306322

well... despite all the badness, the signal to noise ratio is still the best out there on reddit, so I have nothing better to browse

night

Magisch

00:58

hey @user1306322 you were talking about wolcen yesterday

right?

user1306322

mm first time hearing

Magisch

ah then it was someone else

user1306322

it was probably user400 then

user400654

that was me

gotta get my wow dailies done, eat some food, then ima be playin it the rest of the night

user1306322

02:45

0

A: Some improvements to blockquotes

I recreated for the most part the post in the example screenshot here in the sandbox, and here's my spin on your proposition. Current style on the left, my variant on the right. In blockquote removed background-color, changed border-left to 4px solid #ccc. To .spoiler added background-color: #...

if you wanna give CSS a spin, there's a link to the sandbox post almost the same as the one they posted

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

06:02

@Shadow @rene Once this gets closed as a duplicate, could one of you please add all of the targets I commented to the duplicate list?

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/16155843/ubalassdi

Mithical

08:24

→ 25 messages moved to Chimney

rene

08:45

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog done that

BlueSoul

09:46

just realized that Office saves auth tokens in the registry

rene

yeah, but the registry can have ACL's set so only you can read them.

Unless they are stored in HKLM ...

BlueSoul

10:01

@rene I wasn't even thinking about security. I just mean that the only way to remove a "cached" login from an office app is... deleting the entire registry subfolder

I used Access some days ago to migrate data from an Excel file to a SharePoint list as from a customer request.

Gimby

Where can we donate to support your mental recovery?

BlueSoul

@Gimby want to know the funny part? It actually much easier and faster than having to write a Powershell script.

Not joking. See here if you want to, but compared to other options is pretty decent.

I mean, you CAN use cut&paste on the quick edit list view, but that is only if the columns 100% match.

Anyway, back on topic... apparently Access stored the url of the SharePoint online site and the credentials somewhere - so now every time you go to "External Data Connections" the site is showed there. You can then select a list without any credential prompt

that means that the credentials and the url is saved somewhere.

so, since they are NOT listed in the credential manager, I did a quick "Find" in the registry with the site url.

found out that there is a sub key

> Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Common\Identity\Identities

it contains full data for the identity, including the url of the site and an access token.

Andras Deak

\Identitieses

BlueSoul

and, ironically enough, using that registry path I was able to find a question that confirms this oddity.

3

A: Clear cached Microsoft Live account credentials in Office apps

Open the registry editor, RegEdit, and search for the username you want to log out. You may find it in a folder here: Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Common\Identity\Identities Delete the folder and the next time you attempt to access the OneDrive files you will be p...

Magisch

10:17

@user400654 I finished the main campaign with my caster character yesterday

some of the bosses had interesting mechanics but they all fell over like paper. I focused on aether damage with infinity blades, anomaly and the healing circle with the damage rune

felt like the bosses had significantly too little hp. In the end even the last boss each stage of him fell over in only one solid dmg phase. AS soon as he was broken he died in that window.

BlueSoul

10:44

totally random song of the day

Ymochel the Drow - Fellowship

►

Some will recognize the music - the tune is taken from Ultima VII and is the Fellowship theme in the game.

Words... fan made by Ymochel.

@Magisch something something Delirium.

Gimby

Ah, the Binding of Isaac. A game which sometimes I completely love and sometimes I completely hate. I have not pinned the exact criteria yet as to when I flip to which side.

Mithical

11:02

Did favorite tags highlighting just change?

BlueSoul

@Mithical Free to not reply if you wish, but I kinda have to ask. Is that strike still in the plans now?

Mithical

in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, 18 hours ago, by Mithical

Going to say it's best to put this strike on hold for a couple weeks and see whether or not Stack follows through with actions, and not just words. If they don't... well then, striking is still an option. If they do follow through... there'll be no need for a strike.

BlueSoul

thanks, didn't see that.

It's Over

11:56

Afternoon

So, anything on fire?

Mithical

*looks down at flaming pants* Nope.

It's Over

This morning there was a pleasant and subtle cooked meat smell in the room, but now I only smell things burning

Shame, would have been a good meal.

Shadow9

12:11

@It'sOver in SE? Sure! It's simple: the deadline is 6-8 nevers.

Journeyman Geek

@It'sOver not yet

Shadow9

So I don't hold my breath for any update, not in Q1, not in Q2, not in Q3, not in Q4, and not in Q5.

Mast

@SmokeDetector Definitely spam.

More flags please.

It's Over

@Shadow9 what about Q6?

Shadow9

@It'sOver until then that new person they brought will be long gone anyway.

It's Over

12:14

@Shadow9 I like your eyebrows

Shadow9

(see also: Joe Friend, category "New people SE brings with tons of buzz just to see them go after a year or less".)

Anyway.... lost hope aside, I need...

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@Shadow9 brews a cup of Cappuccino for @Shadow9

Shadow9

@It'sOver they haven't changed much in the past week

:D

It's Over

@Shadow9 They're still mesmerizing

terdon

@It'sOver How do you know? The right one is mesmerizing, but the left? Maybe that's been shaved off!

Shadow9

12:20

@terdon fun fact: we have a known person in Israel with such case. Let me find...

dang... forgot his name. Will try to remember soon. :D

Gimby

@It'sOver I said literally the same thing not two days ago.

Shadow9

@Gimby I suspect he just copy&paste your words. ;)

It's Over

@Gimby why, your feather colors are (annoyingly) vibrant as well

terdon

@Shadow9 I'm sure there are loads. Screwing around with eyebrows seems popular these days.

For example, I keep seeing people who have shaved them off and then painted them back on.

Seems to be a thing now.

It's Over

OwwwK

Maybe religious monotony has its upsides as well then

Mithical

12:34

@terdon Sometimes they're signals.

Like the lesbian eyebrow slit.

Mast

@terdon I've only seen that on elderly woman.

Gimby

I'd rather paint eye balls on my eye lids so I can close my eyes in dull meetings, far more functional than painted on eyebrows.

2

terdon

@Mithical I... don't see how that makes a difference, to be honest. I mean, to each their own, I just find it disconcerting.

@Mast Oh no, I see it on young women, at least in the UK, very often recently.

Or I noticed it recently, which might mean nothing at all.

e.g. media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/…

popsugar-assets? What are you doing to me google image search?

Anyway, safe for work, fully clothed woman with painted eyebrows.

It's Over

In other news, COVID-19 made it here. Thank God, I was getting worried. :|

terdon

And that's what it looks like when done by a professional (I am guessing). The home made attempts I've seen are even less convincing.

Mast

12:44

@terdon Yuck.

@It'sOver Mortality rate so far is just above 2%, so if it's only a handful of people they'll likely survive.

It's Over

Well, 2 deaths confirmed

Mast

I'm sorry.

It's Over

Oh, sure, no need to apologize

JAD

@terdon lovely filename as well

It's Over

Unless your real-life name is COVID ಠ_ಠ

terdon

12:47

@JAD Oh, ugh

Sorry

It's Over

Hehe I just noticed

JAD

I don't mind, just found it funny

It's Over

It looks like a gradient fill for an object in MS Word

I have an impulse to right-click, format and adjust the gradients

Maybe if there were outlines it would have looked less weird?

JAD

:is tempted to grab powerpoint:

It's Over

Powerpoint is for Powerpointers

Real geeks use LaTeX and spend 95 percent of their time adjusting margins.

2

Gimby

12:56

I like powerpoint (or any variant thereof). I spend 95% of my time figuring out different annoying slide transitions.

It's Over

-18

A: Who or what is Monica and why so much notice from SE users?

The interesting part of your question is “why so much notice from stack exchange users”. Specifically the mass name change, which is a cheap, easy and relatively effort free way for a small number of users who are very active on the site to spread their message to a large number of users. The t...

Pot calling the kettle black eh? I'm not sure who's trying to be the contrarian here.

Actually, I am sure, but don't tell anyone.

djsmiley2k TMW

I live in Coventry, and this year we are the City of Culture

I'm tempted to explain it's going to be the City of Culturing world wide virus epidemics...

@It'sOver Why are you calling attention to this tho?

John Dvorak

delv-pls the answer oneboxed above

terdon

13:12

@JohnDvorak why?

Downvoting seems like the right thing to do. The answer is an answer and is answering the question asked, I don't see why it should be deleted.

John Dvorak

incendiary, borderline r/a

djsmiley2k TMW

it's badly written

but as a point of discussion, it kind of has a point.

It's Over

@djsmiley2kTMW Well, it's not so much as calling attention than me doing my normal thing: Rambling about meta posts. And life. And the life of meta posts.

djsmiley2k TMW

:D

Mithical

He tends to ramble like an old wise man who's barely turned twenty.

terdon

13:18

@JohnDvorak I don't see it. It's certainly less incendiary and less r/a than the average pro-Monica post.

Including some of my own, probably.

It's Over

Eh, I dunno, I wouldn't have deleted it.

Dissenting opinion voiced poorly, but a meta post nonetheless.

John Dvorak

Eh, fine then.

It's Over

@Mithical Get off my lawn mower

You're ruining the sidewalk

John Dvorak

Those who want it to live may vote now.

It's Over

Or forever hold your silence

John Dvorak

13:22

You mean, sign up for a delv-ban?

BlueSoul

well, since you folks seems to need some distraction from meta, let me then share the "odd argument of the day" I heard at work recently.

It's Over

Well, I neither have the rep nor the badge, I'd just be the hungry angry mob of protesters throwing rotten eggs

@BlueSoul I haven't had food for 25 hours now so I may be a bit grumpy

BlueSoul

Short version - I had to live with two people who kept arguing for a few hours on what scenario would be more "secure". A router/modem connected to a wired VSDL or the same router/modem connected to an usb 4g dongle

in the middle, me, trying to work on some Sharepoint mess.

John Dvorak

Time for a trip to Starbucks. Roll a charisma check to see if you go, or the two.

Gimby

@It'sOver (yikes, 25 hours).

It's Over

13:28

I'm too lazy to go fetch food so I'm having oranges.

John Dvorak

I commend you for being merely "a bit grumpy" while nearly starving.

TIL oranges don't count as food

Shadow9

@terdon nah, the person I mentioned had half his face burned, not on purpose.

It's Over

That might sound weird but it's not.

Because, uh.

Shadow9

@JohnDvorak how so? They have sugar, calories, etc.

John Dvorak

@Shadow9 see above

Shadow9

13:29

Guess one can live on oranges for few days...

It's Over

Because when you're gonna have something anyway in a few hours, then what's the point of eating? ← Love this argument

Shadow9

@JohnDvorak I saw the ceiling. What about it?

avazula

John Dvorak

You can live 30 days without food.

avazula

"you darn kids get off my property!"

Shadow9

13:30

@JohnDvorak really?? Told my kids it's only possible for a week. :(

John Dvorak

It may only be possible for a week for a kid

rene

only food, not water

John Dvorak

Also there's a documented case of somebody surviving 40 days without food and then rejecting some when they had the chance because it wouldn't be kosher.

Side question - why's there a TV in the elevator cabin?

rene

probably because it is rented as an AirBnB?

avazula

@JohnDvorak This is from asdf cartoon series, which line is absurd humour. This particular scene you see kids calling the lift. When it arrives at the desired floor you see this old person yelling 'you darn kids get off my property', the joke being that he lives in the elevator.

John Dvorak

13:39

ah, thank you!

avazula

^ Another example of their absurd jokes

JAD

Their videos on youtube are great as well

avazula

@JAD Yeah, I was about to say that I can't help but recommend you watch 'em :p

JAD

Especially since as a matter of fact...

I like trains

avazula

flaps in joy

JAD

13:43

flops*?

avazula

Don't you say flapping when you want to describe the hand movements autistic people might do when happy?

It's flapping in French and I assumed it's come from English given the sound of it

It's Over

I don't say anything at all

avazula

It's basically hand-shaking stimming

JAD

rings no bell

It's Over

I do know birds flap

Flips in joy (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

JAD

13:45

instead: youtube.com/watch?v=L5inD4XWz4U

It's Over

That's my joyful face

avazula

@JAD Just found this document that explains what is flapping. Hand flapping is said to be one of the most obvious ways autistic people might stim (I hardly ever do that though)

Gimby

I also flap my hands sometimes, but I'm just weird and childish.

I am also known to walk like an egyptian.

avazula

@Gimby I think it's quite a natural way of expressing happiness/joy :p

Gimby

I'm sure, but I'm also weird on top of that.

Journeyman Geek

13:50

I think in internet speak its..

FLAILS

avazula

@Gimby Isn't it great to be weird?

Gimby

I think so, life is too boring otherwise.

It's Over

When I get happy I just say obscene things.

Maybe. I don't get much happier or sadder than usual.

Say, an apathetic Okja.

avazula

You seem sadder than the usual

terdon

@Shadow9 Well, that escalated quickly!

It's Over

13:54

@Shadow9 The Hound?

@avazula I do?

avazula

@It'sOver I think so, but who I am to say?

You joke rate is lower than what I'm used to

Gimby

This line of discussion is awkward, next!

It's Over

Hmm, yeah, I guess

avazula

@Gimby :p

Shadow9

14:44

@It'sOver nah, only half face. Hound has all his face burned. I think? checking

meh, most of his face

JAD

half actually

Andras Deak

Half in the books. Shoved in a fireplace.

Gimby

Well, now I know where I need to go when I need lots and lots of stress balls.

rene

we can use them

Shadow9

@Gimby so that's how it's called.....

Gimby

14:53

Are you trying to turn that into some kind of dirty joke?

Shadow9

Me? Never! @It's can vouch for my innocence.

:P

Gimby

Your bushy eyebrow says different

Shadow9

ugh

Need to change

Gimby

ha ha :)

Shadow9

:D

Rob

15:18

👁️

Feeds

15:43

Requirements volatility is the core problem of software engineering

Ryan Donovan on February 20, 2020

It’s now been more than 50 years since the first IFIP Conference on Software Engineering, and in that time there have been many different software engineering methodologies, processes, and models proposed to help software developers achieve that predictable and cost-effective process. But 50 years later, we still seem to see the same kinds of problems we always have: late delivery, unsatisfactory results, and complete project failures.

Gimby

Man, I was seeing some really weird socket errors when trying to do a HTTPS request on both the client and server side. The culprit: a timeout value in seconds was being set where a timeout value in milliseconds was expected. So the client was basically opening a connection and immediately disconnecting because request timeout. That produces some errors that not even google can help you with!

Journeyman Geek

boingboing.net/2020/02/19/video-of-a-cool-old-tokyo-neig.html

this seems neat

BlueSoul

oh...... wonderful wonderful ideya of the day....

so, now theoretically SO content is under CC 4.0 (let's forget about all the issues for a moment)....

do this mean that all the mirrors should update their attributions?

Gimby

I thought you were going to go biking in Tokyo.

Journeyman Geek

@BlueSoul practically - as long as it was accurate at the time...

@Gimby naw, I just like pretty 4k footage and am at work

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

15:59

For new content they should have to comply with 4.0 terms; but AFAIK anything they mirrored while it was 3.0 they should be free to keep using under 3.0 terms.

rene

@Gimby on the plus side: you never ran out of sockets ...

Gimby

@rene that's why I only bought marbles and never actually played. Can't lose them when you don't use them.

BlueSoul

@JourneymanGeek came to mind because I just saw a replica that uses this attribution line

> This question is issued from sharepoint.stackexchange.com. The text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share Alike .

and it points to version 3.0

user400654

o/

BlueSoul

so, forgetting all the chaos around the license upgrade if that is technically valid, the mirror should upgrade the attribution line too.

Journeyman Geek

16:14

@BlueSoul that's going to be a fun thing to pull off

canon

@Magisch Personally, I don't care about an apology. I don't care if someone takes ownership of fault. I don't need a head on a pike. I don't care whether SE brings in a silvered-tongued meta-whisperer or whether they have an action plan. I'm sick of the lip-service in the face of continued, reprehensible action on the part of their leadership. Just let me know if something actually improves.

@Mithical a gag order? Really? :/

Magisch

@canon colloquial term for non disclosure agreement & non disparagement clause

basically a contract that companies make their ex employees sign that includes to not talk about anything that happened at the job or criticise the company in any way

canon

I know what it means. I'm just clarifying that his severance was contingent upon such a clause. Ick.

Magisch

yeah, that was quite ick

canon

I think my respect for SE has pretty much bottomed out.

That said, there's no problem so bad you can't make it worse... right?

Journeyman Geek

16:30

@canon the brokenness and hurt runs deep. I don't think there's a quick fix but its either things get worse, remain as broken, or we assume good intent, at least enough that we can work out what their intentions are.

canon

Campaign speeches, imo. We'll see what gets done.

Magisch

luckily disappointment or encouragement wont have to wait long

they've given themselves 2 weeks for the first set of action items

Journeyman Geek

yup

I mean, trust is in short supply

but I'd really like to see some positive change, and certain points of view end up being.... unpopular.

canon

@Magisch did they mention a self-imposed penalty for missing their self-imposed target date? :P

Journeyman Geek

@canon Probably none, other than basically shooting themselves in the foot yet again. And there's not much foot left to shoot

Magisch

16:37

the implied penalty is that another failure will upset people more then the last

and as journey said, foot left to shoot is kinda running out

PM 2Ring

It's nice to see @JonEricson being his ever-helpful self:

@SaraChipps: If you look around the internal Team, you can find a few posts that might help guide employees as they interact with meta. — Jon Ericson 28 mins ago

Journeyman Geek

:D

canon

lol

Magisch

:D and also :O

Journeyman Geek

@PM2Ring I'd actually argue, as a 80+K meta user that...

meta needs a certain mindset and ability to communicate that you can't rush

You don't dictate to meta. You share. And very sneakily cajole and convince

user400654

16:38

and silence

canon

That burn, though...

Journeyman Geek

:D

Classy yet... :D

user400654

;)

PM 2Ring

@JourneymanGeek Most certainly! I mostly lurk on MSE, and have only posted 1 answer & a handful of comments, but I know enough about it to know that it takes a lot of time for anyone to learn how to communicate effectively on MSE, and it must be a hell of a lot harder for staff, especially someone who's only been around for a short while.

Journeyman Geek

@PM2Ring that's something I think that folks didn't realise

and that competency is useful when meta matters

or as I love to point out

PM 2Ring

16:51

@JourneymanGeek And they not only didn't realise how hard it was, they didn't even recognize how badly they'd failed when they shot themselves in the feet. It's like the Black Night scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail...

Journeyman Geek

There's a good reason my meta rep is a flat line right until ~2017

It is an acquired skill :D

Dosen't mean you have to crash and burn - just spend a little time getting to know the folks, and how best to communicate with them

user400654

i mean, just post answers that a certain group agrees with, it's free rep

Journeyman Geek

@user400654 meh

Jon Ericson

@PM2Ring I wrote several guides on our internal Enterprise site that I moved to our internal Team. I pushed for other employees to be more active on Meta and I'm really not sure that was a good idea in the end. (The guidance I stand by. ;-)

Actually, I think @JNat moved them. At least one that I remember for sure.

JNat

I did, yes

at least one, yes

maybe more...? :P

Journeyman Geek

16:58

@user400654 I don't think that really works unless you're good at pandering to the crowd

for me the big 'advantage' was being a mod, and grokking how, well, stuff worked, or why stuff was done

Fundamentally though, rep is meaningless. I just want to make sure my communities are healthy.

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