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12:50 AM
@Magisch sooo... Saying "I told you so" is an awful thing to do and I'm really trying hard to avoid it, but... I'm weak.
A: Retiring New Navigation (beta) in preparation for Navigation 3.0

Shog9I just posted this as a comment on an internal research document, but I'm gonna post it here too because I think it's something critical to keep in mind as we venture yet again into redesigning navigation: For the vast, vast majority of our users, Google is their navigation. That's true even ...

I pointed this out a lot.
And... Looks like someone else finally noticed. To wit: activity is, uh, not at all evenly distributed across "active" SO users.
FWIW, I went through a heck of a lot of SE logs over Christmas to pull numbers on this for the CM team; the number of heavy answerers who read meta would fill a small city. A small % of total activity on SE, but... That distribution is incredibly uneven
When you set out to measure activity... You got a lot of work to do up-front to define what you're looking for. Skip that... And you're in for a bad time.
Looks like someone skipped that...
And so now, upon realizing that pissing off the 30-some thousand people who keep SO afloat is maybe a bad idea... They're re-thinking their strategy. Good for them; even if a bit late, revisiting bad analysis is always a good choice.
1:55 AM
So much that isn't working/gets broken stays that way because of the barriers to exactly that: rethinking and revisiting decisions (and often admitting you are wrong along the way, whether externally or internally) is really hard for (people/groups/companies), one of the most prominent bugs in our source code
1 hour later…
3:22 AM
Q: What is a "closed", “on hold”, or "duplicate" question?

Justin Standard This FAQ is currently outdated due to the new post notices rolling out. Members of the community are working on updates here, and the Stack Exchange team has been asked to update this FAQ here. In the meantime, the information currently in this FAQ is outdated and other reference pages sh...

Apparently this has had a "currently outdated" notice (in the text, not an actual post notice) slapped on both the question and answer since December
And it links to a Github revision(?) saying "Members of the community are working on updates here"
but it doesn't actually seem to have been updated at all since then, and that was December 6th
2 hours later…
5:37 AM
Ben Popper on February 18, 2020
We try to climb the teetering tower of abstraction, examine a human readable magazine on computing, and prepare for Y2038.
5:54 AM
@V2Blast De-facto FAQ maintainer (and adder of the notice) speaking here
I added that notice for two reasons, the first of which was that the new notices were, well, new at the time, and were still being refined. I didn't want to unnecessarily bump it with edits as more refinements were being made.
The second reason was because it would require considerable research on my part to update as it would have to be rewritten almost completely given the new notice logic, not to mention having to capture new screenshots and study minute behaviors.
I posted a request asking for the SE team to update the FAQ (linked in my notice) since I noticed they were fast at updating the help center articles, but it resulted in no action.
At this moment, I don't have the time to work on a complete rewrite of it. I've also deferred working on it due to the recent controversy blowup.
Maybe later, at some point, I'll do it.
But until then, the request to the SE team to do so stands.
@Shadow9 About you being the ultimate lifeform?
6:18 AM
@Shog9 I think someone was trying to find facts to fit a narrative 😁
@Shog9 I'm genuinely interested how it came to be that CMs knew all that was going on, and told people internally that they're making a terrible mistake, and they still did it
Why even have a highly qualified CM team if you're not going to listen to them?
I could understand (even though it would still be a failing) if everyone at the company was just out of touch with this, but they evidently had people around that knew exactly what was going on and how this would turn out
@Magisch Egos 😁
competent management uses the resources they have and know how to delegate. If I'm paying people who can help me deal with stuff like this I'd utilize them surely
6:35 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Which one? :P
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Fair.
1 hour later…
7:37 AM
46 messages moved to Chimney
8:17 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog yup
@Magisch That depends on how you view your resources and whether you think they can think for themselves. If (in your view) they can't, you just tell them what to do.
8:35 AM
@Shog9 how are you tho? is everything going ? (smoothly or otherwise)
8:55 AM
@Shog9 It looks like this is where it last got to, but I usually (and seldom) use SE main's Filters rather than the Custom (per page) Filters; though the later certainly seems like an improvement.
@JNat cross site spammer to start your day.... thanks! :)
@Rob bon appetite
!!/eat spam
@Shadow9 No such command 'eat'.
8:57 AM
Best to fry it first.
@Rob but then it will smell badly
Spam has no sense of smell.
... I would never eat that
Fried spam on toast is reasonably popular.
spam is not actually worse then other luncheon meat
(the low sodium version)
9:04 AM
Popularity shouldn't dictate if I subject my intestines to that ...
Ah, I see @Magisch has thrown his hat in the ring
i did
I said I was gonna
....the other candidate there makes me want to earn enough rep to vote simply so to vote against them
Easy to make, but some ruin it with eggs.
@Mithical shockingly they currently are a moderator on Law.SE
9:06 AM
@Mithical ?
@Mithical Evan?
@Shadow9 fyi, there's more than one troll present on the network.
assuming it's the same one each time is giving them too much credit
Eh, Evan has a history of running for elections. ;)
@Mithical exactly
...well, time to make some suggested edits on TWP...
9:11 AM
@Mithical Not as bad as Space.SE, where one person has a Candidate Score of ZERO (and not a particularly good campaign speech (Intro)).
I hadn't even looked at the Space.SE or AI.SE elections yet, despite getting notifications for both of them
@Mithical or just mention cakes
Site for those who want to lean? I always wanted to lean!
@Rob space has a second nomination just now
AI's canadidates are not unreasonable, not great but not .... well, can't say.
9:13 AM
I remember a magento election a while back that had some interesting candidates as well
@Rob Mhhm.
zero is impressive on its own
you have to hit a very narrow band of rep and not do a lot of things to stay at zero
@JAD and that's 100 photon torpedoes for the first candidate's chances!
Reminds me of the mayor cat
Stubbs (April 12, 1997 – July 21, 2017) was a cat who was the mayor of Talkeetna, Alaska from July 1997 until his death.Stubbs was described as a tourist attraction, having been flooded with cards and letters, and drawing 30 to 40 tourists each day (most of whom were en route to other Alaska destinations, such as Denali) who hoped to meet "the mayor". Stubbs's position was honorary, as the town is only a historic district.Every afternoon, Stubbs went to a nearby restaurant and drank water laden with catnip out of a wineglass or margarita glass.At least one opinion writer for the Alaska Dispatch...
@Magisch enough rep to be able to participate, not enough for it to count towards the score
9:15 AM
So if a cat can be mayor, a user with zero mod score can be mod. ;)
so 300-1000 rep
300-1000 rep, no participation, editing or moderation badges
getting that rep without participation is tricky I suppose
editing/moderation is easy to avoid
They wanted to wear their hat with pride:
The designer of that hat should be shot ... on camera while wearing it in public
9:24 AM
Cuz that's so much better.
@Rob butt hat?!
pete seems like the generic default candidate
inoffensive but so aggressively boring
Boring is boring
It's "Peter", which it's no different than short for Richard.
9:44 AM
@Magisch Pete Whatshisname?
Here he is, pictured on the right:
heh, those pumpkins look a bit melted
My first idea was that they're inflatable
I think they just got so big that they can't support their weight
I Googled "tape measure booty" but there didn't seem to be any particularly good and non-offending images.
9:53 AM
@Magisch On the other hand, I do love the idea that we're finally in a place where a gay dude running for president can be considered both inoffensive and boring. That's a ray of hope, in a way.
@Magisch well...they did start fixing thst. By firing the highly qualified CMs.
I still think they will come to regret that dearly
the other companies who are hoovering up our former CMs probably can't believe their luck that SE would let them go
@Magisch call me cynical (because I am) but if they wanted to have anything to do with the community they wouldn't have fired Shog and not like that. I'm not buying that a few weeks later they've suddenly understood what Shog and the others have been saying for a long time.
wouldn't be the first time someone in corporate somewhere made a horrible mistake and realized shortly after
10:02 AM
I'm a stern believer in rationalization
I made the analogy before. Considering we've hit rock bottom trust, there's no use in assuming the wors
the response would not change
(consider it a cumulative scolding for the last few messages)
10:24 AM
Ignored, now you're gone.
That's so uncouth
10:39 AM
oh, don't worry - next time I'll just flag for removal if you prefer.
I don't think he has a say in that ... or rather a hear in that
Or a ear
I have only an eye. But soon it will change. Ideas?
Well... change it to an ear.
Good idea!
And name?
@Rob are you implying that you think BlueSoul's shitposting is more problematic than your own? Or am I misreading your message?
10:44 AM
Don't change names, its already hard enough to keep track of you lot.
Well I'm not Shog9
So need others to know that either. :D
Shadow The Ear Wizard?
@Shadow9 I love statements that are just so completely true you don't even have to think about it.
It's a little known fact, but "eye for an eye" wasn't originally a retaliation law to be followed. It was a free replacement program run by the government.
10:47 AM
@AndrasDeak I don't wear wig
@JohnDvorak whose eye was replaced?
Your eye is hidden so I won't exchange my own for yours, @John.
Do replace that avatar soon, you're staring at me.
Sad stare
Maybe I'll change to a wink?
I am kind of mesmerised by that bushy eye brow.
If Shog will be really back, I'll be happy, so no need in sad avatar. :D
10:50 AM
@JohnDvorak wha?
found this on Google Images
The nose is half 3
Or Hebrew letter "ל"
I think it's a 5
@JohnDvorak what did you search for?? lol
Lenny emoji
10:51 AM
@JohnDvorak without the upper line? yeah
Correction. I think it's a 0.2 :P
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
This one ^
Hi Lenny
Lenny loves to lean?
Its like a Lenny Pac-man
@Gimby think @It'sOver also said something like that once
Good, I hate being alone
10:54 AM
Jan 23 at 11:55, by It's Over
@Sha I gotta say, your eyebrows are hawt.
So maybe I'll have my ear as next avatar so all of you can admire it. :P
setting reminder to clean ears
in 6 months we'll have a full facial profile to hack your phone
My phone doesn't have facial recognition. :D
then just sell it to all the governments that do
Doubt I'll have one any time soon, they just cost too much, more than what I need a phone for.
@AndrasDeak I give my permission for 50% of the money
11:32 AM
@AndrasDeak Couldn't you have said that a tad friendlier? Can you try that going forward? Thanks.
Ah, I thought that was a neutral enough term. Apologies to all involved.
11:48 AM
@AndrasDeak Accepted :-)
> all involved
scratching head
!!/coffee Cindy
Shenanigans, we're all committing shenanigans.
!!/lag a lot
@Shadow9 No such command 'lag'.
@SmokeDetector Where's my coffee?
11:51 AM
It was absorbed by your bushy eye brow
Coffee sometimes splash when I put milk
coffee with milk, eww
!!/coffee Cindy second attempt
@Shadow9 brews a cup of Ristretto for @Cindy
@Gimby not black/filter, instant.
Black coffee can't have milk indeed.
11:53 AM
I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the world black milk exists
@Gimby chocolate milk? ;)
its not exactly black but it'll do
@Gimby just add more dark chocolate
@JAD you'll just get cocoa powder
Curtis Eugene Cross (born August 14, 1983), better known by his stage name Black Milk, is an American rapper, songwriter, and record producer. == Career == In addition to Slum Village, Black Milk has worked with J Dilla, Elzhi, Phat Kat, Frank-N-Dank, Lloyd Banks, Canibus, Pharoahe Monch, RZA, Danny Brown, Black Thought, T3 and many more throughout his career. In 2004, Black Milk formed B.R. Gunna with Young RJ and Fat Ray. Together they released Dirty District: Vol. 2, a follow up to a compilation released in 2001 by Slum Village, to which Black Milk had contributed production. In 2005, ...
I was also googling, it is also a cocktail
11:58 AM
...keep your eyes peeled tomorrow...
I love my hair, won't remove it. :D
@Mithical can't wait for the next attempt to steal the thunder from the strike
There's still a strike planned?
@AndrasDeak I mean... if the strike accomplishes its goals without ever actually going into effect, I'll call that a success.
@Shadow9 It's in flux at the moment.
It is still planned but it might stay in that state for 6 to 8 ...
12:05 PM
... decades? Dramatic tum-tum-tuuuum tune
@Mithical or if the company accomplishes to delay the strike without ever actually doing anything, they'd call that a success
Entirely depends on what happens tomorrow. ;)
Fun. I have a day off tomorrow, so on Thursday I am going to be opening both meta sites with great interest to see what happened.
bring your popcorn extinguisher
@Gimby fun fact "tum tum" in Hebrew slang means "dummy". :D (as in "stupid" ;))
"Hebrew slang", I find that more funny than the term "tum tum" :)
@MadScientist SO. It's always SO.
@Gimby it is! So many wonderful words I can teach you there.... :P
@MadScientist nice
@MadScientist and it was accepted so the blame would stick. You would expect people to check their sources before committing.
12:30 PM
People don't read.
People don't check sources.
Sad but true, usually.
I do :( (but only after I learned some hard lessons)
Somebody upvoted this crap
@Mast not me
12:52 PM
razer software is a poopy poop
Q: How to bind F13-F24 keys to the 12 side buttons on Razer Naga?

LuteI'm trying to use the Razer Synapse configuration app to bind the 12 number buttons send extra F keys from the 13..24 range, but I'm not having any progress. When I'm in the right menu, I can press F1 through F12 on my keyboard (or onboard keyboard) as usual, and it registers and works fine. But...

if anyone knows how to do this on that mouse I'd like to know coz I bought it too and it has the same problem
if you really need to create an account and agree to an EULA online to use a mouse then you have far greater issues than key bindings
@AndrasDeak and give your age/passport number/height/weight as well?
> Fatal error! You can't use the mouse because you did not disclose your height
@AndrasDeak you don't actually have to create any accounts
it's just a marketing/data harvesting meme that you can bypass if you find dat X button :p
I was considering decompiling and recompiling the synapse app since it's just a c# exe but I kinda don't wanna risk bricking the mouse in case I do it wrong or if it really has no idea what to do with the key codes for F13...F24 keys
@Shadow9 more like tume tume
hmm... perhaps I could try importing an exported profile file if that's a thing, maybe it contains editable keys…
but then again if they're gonna be read by the same key interpreter that doesn't understand F13 key strokes, maybe it won't read :/
are there even any modern keyboards with F13 keys row?
1:01 PM
@YaakovEllis how so? The word I know is just "טומטום".... though with slang, it can differ in different areas, even in our small country. :D
@Shadow9 tum rhymes with gum. tume rhymes with boom. At least when my kids say it, it is the second pronunciation.
> also we were able to turn the car back on somehow but now we are afraid to turn it off because it may not start again and Gig told us we used our “allotted restarts” of the car so we are on a literal endless road trip through California now
Achievement Unlocked: When you think you've reached the bottom remember that you can always start digging
First they started with games having a finite number of "available install"
Now, apparently you can turn on a car you rented only a finite number of times too.
well, that elonnet is going to start providing service planet-wide soon, so connectivity loss might not be such a big problem for long
A: Tables on blog are incredibly hard to read in dark mode

David LongworthShould be looking a bit better now, let us know if you see any others that look weird.

tables fixt
@Shadow9 this is an actual screen taken from a "smart" scale.
the scale ask for your weight.
do you guys think it would be incredibly dumb to just add a filter:invert() to all images in blog for dark mode?
1:15 PM
@YaakovEllis I don't get it, will keep in mind to ask when we meet, will probably be easier to explain face to face. ;)
@user1306322 dumb? Depends. Short-sighted? Definitely.
what would be the ideal way to go about this in general?
@Shadow9 tomayto, tomahto?
generating 2 different versions for bright and dark mode?
Dimming them seems like a much better start than inverting all colors
1:17 PM
@BlueSoul okay, טומטום-er :p
Somebody posts a screenshot of their console and your eyes catch fire.
what about generating just one image but with a transparent background so that the white is from the background-color set by css?
and then you can also adjust the graph's brightness/contrast via css without affecting background color
If you can control the images, you can control what filters are appropriate for each
well surely every graph would have a .graph class to differentiate it from other illustrations
idk what CRM(CMS?) they're using to write their blogs but they'd have to add that
why does logitech's app understand these keys and razer's doesn't
1:32 PM
@BlueSoul probably
@BlueSoul that's.... genius! :D
@user1306322 Wordpress
@Shadow9 as the picture there says....
I wouldn't say "Proudly" myself, but... meh.
@BlueSoul ugh.... don't get me started on those silly and impossible-to-open wraps.... lol
@BlueSoul you can usually ask the teller to open it, though they might use a stabby kind of beer opener on it
or was it a stabby can opener
from... foolish kitchen... dot com?
these double as beer bottle openers but yea don't stab the cap with the sharp bit lol
1:53 PM
@user1306322 ye oldie Powermite toys... with real iron-cast saw.
1 hour later…
2:55 PM
@Shadow9 I've never heard that word used that way
A: What data about meta has eluded Stack Exchange until recently?

Yaakov EllisOriginal Data Analysis In April 2019 there was a investigation performed that looked at the number of users who regularly post and vote on Meta Stack Overflow, and how Stack Overflow answering predicted that participation. The results were that posting and voting on Meta is done by 200-300 use...

It looks like one of the points of the strike - showing SE how much they rely on us - SE has figured out for themselves by looking at the data. That's good.
> 86% / 91% of flags created on SO are created by users who had visited MSO/MSE in the past 30/60 days
> 59% / 64% of flags created on SO are created by users who had engaged on MSO/MSE in the past 30/60 days
When you consider that 17,500 flags are raised a week on SO, that's ~10,000 flags a week that are raised by people who engage in meta.
So...meta is not exactly "0.15%" of the community. Hmm...
If this is as we think, this is a far better apology from SEI than anything labeled "apology" before that.
Rebekah Rombom on February 18, 2020
Interview processes run the gamut from a few conversations, to hours of writing code on a whiteboard, to evaluative social events with the team. It can all seem very mysterious and nerve-wracking from the outside. But here’s the big secret: No matter what kind of process you step into, the hiring team, really, is only trying to figure out three things.
note that it's CMs and devs on that meta thread. Just because they see that the data is there doesn't mean that "the folks steering" will do anything differently
if only there had been people telling them the same thing for years
Still, there's a good chance for a good big eye opener for those in power
3:10 PM
Chance, yes. But they had plenty of chances to, you know, listen to Shog and the others.
And if tomorrow brings the right things that's a huge step forward
And there's a veeeery wide margin between "not listening even if we could" and "fire on the spot". These just don't add up.
But anyway I never mind being proven wrong.
first they'd have to create a cm-reinstatement process
3:24 PM
@AndrasDeak it is. From one perspective
0.15% of the answerers, 50% of the "moderators". If I read it correctly.
then the question becomes, are those moderator-y actions deemed important enough.
CM reinstatement comes naturally with the understanding that they actually need CMs :D
@AndrasDeak Tim isn't a CM; he's at least two levels of management above Catija, and is at basically the same level as Sara, if I understand correctly
3:39 PM
...... just found a video of a guy who made a Trump Rubik cube on youtube.
4:12 PM
@Mithical milog.co.il/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%98%D7%95%D7%9D - do note I had no idea until now about its second definition. It's just a word that was used a lot while I was a kid, all around. (both friends and family, as a funny word.)
@Shadow9 I was exclusively aware of the second definition, it's a term used in the Mishna and G'mara
doesn't that new statistic just reinforce the idea that the "toxicity" and "unwelcomingness" is coming primarily from meta
4:31 PM
@Mithical hmm... interesting. Well, naturally the origin of what I know is just a deviation of the formal word "מטומטם", trying to make it sound less offensive.
@user400654 based on your agenda you can use any stats to your (dis)advantage
it's more a... reference to listening to people claim that there's a problem without actually looking for the problem.
I'm desperately trying to understand that but I'm just too stupid ;)
Given that the survey is only presented to users who actually visit a question on SO, and how that can exclude users who are already part of an increasingly small group, It's obviously going to skew in favor of people who are new to the system. You can see it in the results.
@MadScientist That assembly GUID issue with docker/razer is hilarious. Poor Cerebrus.
4:46 PM
I have only just noticed it's Cerebrus, not Cerberus...
The twitstorm did at least get the bad answer edited to replace the wrong code
The original edit was quite bad, you don't leave around entirely wrong code like that. Especially as in this case it isn't obvious that the result is wrong unless you actually check this with at least two different projects.
And it's another example that the accept mark doesn't mean all that much in the end
@JohnDvorak Yeah, I actually had to go back and amend the spelling. Portmanteu of cerebral and cerberus?
5:09 PM
@Mithical well I guess he's the...uh...Community Evangelist, which clarifies nothing ;)
@Mithical He is a CM in the way we mean it: he is an employee who has direct contact with and great experience in dealing with the communities. And he used to be a CM (whether he had the official job description or not). As far as I can tell, he still acts as a sort of uber CM.
(By which I don't mean he takes money to drive the other CMs around town)
@terdon I mean it doesn't make sense to exclude him from "the folks steering", since he's got at least a bit of influence on the wheel... to drive the other CMs and the company around.
5:31 PM
Perhaps. I don't know the internals. But I do know that Tim's one of the people who actually grok the network, so based on recent events, I very much doubt he has much of a voice.
1 hour later…
6:37 PM
18 hours ago, by Shog9
And so now, upon realizing that pissing off the 30-some thousand people who keep SO afloat is maybe a bad idea... They're re-thinking their strategy. Good for them; even if a bit late, revisiting bad analysis is always a good choice.
They are?
Too skeptical at this point
6:52 PM
A: What data about meta has eluded Stack Exchange until recently?

Yaakov EllisOriginal Data Analysis In April 2019 there was an investigation performed that looked at the number of users who regularly post and vote on Meta Stack Overflow, and how answering on Stack Overflow predicted that participation. The results were that posting and voting on Meta is done by 200-300...

Well, this guy is a bloody hero.
if we were BS (Before Shog) I'd be optimistic
Oh I'm very BS
(Before Shog)
But I'd rather take it on the wall
@It'sOver So the majority of content curation is performed by users who at least read meta regularly
color me utterly shocked
7:01 PM
@Magisch You're green, don't tell me that's the utterly shocked color
no thats the "people have been shouting this from the rooftops since before september 2019" color
@Magisch "color me utterly shocked" A pale parrot?
but still, insight is a significant improvement
Yeah but those contributions are useless, they don’t generate content and therefore new page views
@Magisch A dev saying something on meta that hasn't earned a single downvote in the first 85 votes
Color me shockedly utt.
7:02 PM
because it's true
and we've all been saying it for months
without access to the data to prove it
someone actually did the work and worked it out
@Magisch Shog9 did some efforts at collecting data and analysis. But well, we all know how that ended up :(
Also, I gotta say this, the post promising and foreshadowing alignment is still baffling in how difficultly it is conveying very simple concepts, call it legalese or lawyerese or whatever.
@It'sOver devs don't get downvotes. CMs and higher-ups do.
Not that many, anyway
yaakov is a treasure to the community. Where the management has dropped the ball hard and fast, he's been trying to bridge the divide
Yeah, going out of his way <3
7:07 PM
To the degree that it still reeks of mistrust and objectification. We're still data points.
Let's hope his efforts are not wasted on pretenses by the leadership
the question specifically asked for the data analysis done
you can't really fault him for laying out the actual data analysis done
@It'sOver SO is about data. That's fine.
I've found it easier not to hope for such distant things. It could mean me getting out of my slumber.
in fact, this answer is exactly what the question was hoping to get
7:08 PM
@It'sOver not particularly heavy data points at that. Moreso now than before... but probably not enough to compel, "leadership."
@AndrasDeak data, and cherries.
I want cherries now. Almost as much as pear.
We don't want to be danced around and pampered. We just want to be able to keep the site running with ease.
I want pear
pear-programming? everything's better with hand fruit.
*hands @It'sOver a paring knife*
7:10 PM
Yes, that's the joke.
@Shadow9: Happy birthday to Ella.
I guess there wouldn't be much objection if the page for the new users was still riddled with cushiony flattery, as long as few, very important moderation FRs get implemented
7:12 PM
🔪🔪 - a pair of paring knives for paring pairs of pears
Is that still on the table?
@Mithical You're no Mitch
Right. You've got an extra "C" in there somewhere.
Makes all the difference
I can't bully him
1 hour later…
8:40 PM
no, surface; I don't need you to detach. wtf...
8:59 PM
Anyone here play Call of Duty?
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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