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4:00 PM
but seriously I'm not sure what they mean by that
 
which bit?
Community stakeholders, would be anyone whos involved in the community
those who care.
So, you'd expect the business does
we do, obv.
however something like HR likely don't care.
 
it just kinda feels weird to use business lingo when talking to customers
 
Including using the term "customer" :)
 
just say "active members of the community" or something
 
that's a function of people who don't deal with the community, writing stuff to the community ;)
it's not just the community tho
various parts of the business will be stakeholders too
 
4:06 PM
@Gimby sorry, I've been infected with the business disease, now my greed for profits and high KPIs is expected to cease operations by the end of Q1 :I
damn this latest blog post is tough to read
I feel like someone was given a job to fool the reader into thinking that someone has finally heard them by producing the text that reiterates on the same couple thoughts over and over again
having the business disease has a side effect of allowing you to see right through these things :s
I guess we did ask early on to at least pretend, and that's what they've started doing now, but let's see what the actual steps towards fulfilling those promises will look like
 
4:28 PM
i've still yet to see a survey
 
Rob
@JAD Daily
@BlueSoul In an employment situation "work with" means that the owner and other employee doesn't know.
 
4:43 PM
deeds not words. The period when I was willing to give the pointyhairs running this place any benefit of the doubt ended when they sacked Shog.
4
 
@user1306322 it just proves the actual CM's didn't write it.
Instead of letting actual CM write, they now hire some legal advisor to write everything that is remotely related to community, which is explosive stuff for SE management. At least that's the feeling I got from what I read. The way it's written, the wording, etc.
 
@user1306322 it's bulshitese for "people with an interest in X".
 
it's this nitpicking that drives them to write the way they do
 
Of course I might be wrong, maybe each CM sent some drafts, then when glued together, it appears this way.
 
Well, to give credit where credit is due: we have been making noises about how it is important to let us know stuff's happening even before it's ready to be officially announced. And they seem to have heard us, that blog post is exactly that.
 
4:48 PM
meh
 
i mean
it's all things that still ignore what we're asking for
we're still being excluded in data gathering (unless we still happen to be actively answering or viewing questions on SO main)
They're going to appoint moderators to this council, what criteria will they use to decide which ones should be a part of it? Why does such a council even need to exist if they have a place where all mods can participate currently (the mod team)? is the mod team not working?
 
No, this is addressing one thing we asked for: we wanted to be kept informed while things are going on, and not only once they're ready to be shipped.
 
but this is a whole lot of nothing
 
> We’re close to being done with a plan to move forward and we’ll be sharing it with you soon. The key takeaway for now is that we’ve heard you, and we want to work our way to a place where all of us feel trust and cooperation again.
Soon(tm)
 
haha, "we've heard you"
 
4:53 PM
And yes, this is still words, I'm not saying we should break out the champagne. But we did ask that SE let us knkow of things that are still works in progress and this post is doing that. So that's something.
It ain't much, and it's still just more words, yes. But it is something.
 
From what I heard, they kinda rushed to put something out there because of the strike that's being organized. They wanted to get it out before the strike goes into effect.
 
reminds me of a certain public letter or two and a rushed apology
 
(I could be misinterpreting the info I have, but that's my conclusion.)
 
Not popping champagne yet, but I do think it's a good idea to turn off the ignition in tanks.
 
?
are we not allowed to discuss it unless we're praising it?
 
4:55 PM
armored vehicles, I mean
 
@user400654 who told you to stop?
 
@user400654 Unsure what you mean here.
 
@user400654 where did that come from?
 
1 min ago, by John Dvorak
Not popping champagne yet, but I do think it's a good idea to turn off the ignition in tanks.
 
If anywhere is likely to slam anything that SE posts, it's this place.
@user400654 that's someones opinion.... they didn't tell you to do/not do anything.
 
4:56 PM
of course
but i responded to it
 
@user400654 As I understood it, that was referencing the strike.
 
:shrug:
 
hmmm
you didn't actually reply to anything
 
...
 
As in... don't celebrate yet, but step down the alert level a notch.
 
4:56 PM
so it looked like out of the blue, you'd be told to not discuss things.
 
i purposely avoid usign the reply feature, because it causes an annoying ping
 
K, well just explaining why I (and two others) pinged you asking what you meant.
 
Replies are one of the best features of SE chat!
 
when replying to things in the past maybe
 
@user400654 yeah, lack of contextual ambiguity sucks :P
 
4:58 PM
Anyway, I don't think anyone's saying that post is a huge step forward or anything. For my part, it's more like "meh, but OK, good that you're letting us know something"
 
It's more words, it's less..... badly written that a lot of other stuff they've published recently.
It gives some hope, that someone, somewhere, might actually be listening. But yes, actions.
 
@Mithical Absolutely. Although the noise bit, less so. I'd have that be an opt-in, myself, instead of opt-out.
@djsmiley2kTMW Yes! I only found one grammatical mistake!
 
Only thing that annoys me about the pings, is the lack of variation in volume
 
Admission: It took me three years from joining chat to realize that the sound thing was configurable
 
and seemingly how different machines respond.
 
4:59 PM
for some reason it always ends up turned on
 
Can any current moderator shed any light on what purpose this mod council actually serves? I didn't see anything in the blog post explaining what the actual purpose of the council is.
 
@Mithical Nope. It doesn't exist yet.
 
@Mithical according to the new style they'll first ask for feedback and then figure out what they asked ;)
 
@Mithical I expect they'll be a step between the higher management, and mods
so.... eventually they'll replace/work alongside CM's
 
So... they're forming the council, but nobody actually knows what the council is for yet.
 
5:01 PM
with CM's doing all the stuff Mods can't
(as now)
but without expecting CM's to do so much, and so having 'higher level' mods or something...
 
i imagine it's more or less the mod team but more exclusive
 
@Mithical 0.25-serious remark: perhaps they're waiting for the next generation of mods to be elected/appointed first
 
@Mithical wait what? I know you can turn it off, but how do you set it to a different sound?
 
@Mithical I don't, anyway. Maybe someone else does, but I don't think I'm completely out of the loop.
 
@JohnDvorak You can't... I meant you can set it per-room to be off, or only for pings, or for every message.
There's a userscript to change the sound but I don't have it.
 
5:03 PM
Oh, nice. Do you have the link?
 
no
sorry
 
5:25 PM
introducing the youngest to the wonders of colin furze
 
🚽
 
5:52 PM
Can we reply fp to smokey in here?
never mind, did in in MS
 
@terdon (Yes, I've seen people do it)
 
but keep in mind that privs are per-room, so if you have privs in HQ that doesn't necessarily mean you have them here
 
 
2 hours later…
Rob
8:00 PM
@terdon Also, this room has a 5 minute delay, so if you see something valid it's probably already gone (that's usually why you see "removed" on Smokey's posts, because it was handled quickly enough for Smokey to delete it's own post).
 
8:20 PM
@Rob in theory smokey should only post here if it is not deleted after the delay
 
8:50 PM
The line that caught my attention:
> We’ve spent a lot of time re-examining how we look at engagement on meta in terms of the ways people participate, and how that correlates to their participation on the main site. Looking at data about meta that’s eluded us until recently (we promise we’re not ever going to call it metadata), it’s clear that our focus there needs a lot of work and better resourcing.
It makes me wonder what impact there’s been on the main sites
 
(∩ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)⊃━☆゚. * ・ 。 data
 
Rob
@Magisch The delay, post, and deletion we were discussing is here. There's no error in what I wrote to terdon.
 
9:06 PM
@Stevoisiak they probably took a long hard look at how much curation comes from meta users
and found their 0.015% comment to be rather inadequate
 
Or just saying the needful
 
as long as they also do the needful
which, at some point, nothing really could make us trust them again quickly, but if you're at rock bottom trust the only direction is up or flat
 
I come from a country where the prime minister when confronted with his blatant lies said "watch what I do, not what I say".
 
There are some people who, when they reach rock bottom, somehow conjure a drill and point it at the ground.
3
 
sooner or later you'll pop out the other side
 
9:33 PM
I'm from a country where when the president is caught lying all he has to do is tweet "fake news" and half the country turns on whoever called him out
 
It's not a competition but "I'm lying" >> "My opponents are lying" :P
 
10:17 PM
@user1306322 Glad I wasn't the only one who found that phrasing weird and overly business-y/formal.
 
10:28 PM
@Mithical An update on the details is "coming soon". It's been sort of touched on by staff in the mod team (and examples have been given there), but we're sort of waiting on the specifics. I am tentatively hopeful.
 
10:56 PM
It depends entirely on whether SE will listen to anything the mods say. And SE management did kind of stab the CMs in the back by firing Shog and Robert, which is pretty much the worst you could do just before trying to reestablish communication with the community and the mods. They will have to prove somehow that they're acting in good faith for this to work
2
 
in whose good faith
 
11:37 PM
@MadScientist Occam's razor: they aren't trying to reestablish communication
 
> Encouraging signs. Gotta give encouraging signs once in a while, this is how you keep people in an abusive relationship. self-quote
2
As you were, Taverners.
 
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