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Rob
12:58 AM
It's @Shadow9's new avatar
3 hours ago, by Rob
Life, elsewhere:
 
Do they like, eat the aquatic plants they remove from the basin?
 
DRP
1:16 AM
@Rob
Just commented on the meta question
Should have been on SO, should I delete it, can it be moved?
 
@DRP Migration on this site requires a moderator, so deleting it and reposting is faster
 
DRP
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog why does a gallery require permission?
Seems I got into the wrong chat room
 
Because that's how it's designed
"anyone may enter, but only approved users may talk"
 
DRP
oki tnx everyone
 
Rob
1:25 AM
It's been deleted so moving won't happen
 
DRP
Yup I deleted it, after clarification from Catjina
 
Rob
OK
 
Rob
1:35 AM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Yes. There are at least 24 more parts to the series, if you need details.
 
yes, it does seem like a... rather detailed channel :)
 
2:01 AM
@Rob for some reason it makes me think of that guy youtube.com/watch?v=2aaIwTB1aRY
 
2:41 AM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I don't think so. Probably a way to remove excess nutrients
 
3:20 AM
@CodyGray - Thanks for the edit, it looks good :)
 
3:41 AM
@TravisJ Cool. I'm glad you're OK with it. I wasn't sure, but I feared that just deleting the comment wouldn't have solved the problem. The Eternal Return of the Same, and all that.
 
 
3 hours later…
Rob
6:20 AM
@SmokeDetector tpu-
 
6:58 AM
8 messages moved to Chimney
 
7:52 AM
@SmokeDetector k
@Trav oh hey, long time no see here. Welcome back. :)
 
morning
 
mornin'
 
morning
 
morning
 
@Rob hmm?
 
8:55 AM
@canon Ow snap
 
Okay. I'm bored and I have had a very interesting discussion over the past two days... that kinda might work here too :P
 
@Tinkeringbell about?
 
Hello bored I'm Magisch
 
Over here, people are recommending to not split kids in school based on learning level before they're aged 15. The reason that's given is that some kids will be slower at learning how to learn, and not separating them from the kids that do will help those kids.
 
9:05 AM
ooh
@Tinkeringbell we have had that system for... snap, 40 years
 
I've been discussing this with a grade school teacher of mine on Twitter... because she actually remembered I used to find this approach horrible XD (I guess I let my opinion show in class?? :P)
 
here they do the split at 10
 
finally started dismantling it
 
arguably its a self fulfilling prophecy. If you get put in a lower bracket you learn less and can't do a lot of things
 
@Tinkeringbell in theory the idea is "people learn at different speeds". In practice - the slower are never allowed to get caught up.
and there's elitism
 
9:06 AM
even most apprenticeships want you to have completed the highest bracket nowadays
 
My brother was placed into something called the GEP. Top 10% of the cohort. Lots of kids in that... end up burning out
 
we had some people who pushed themselves way too much in school
like the one girl who really wanted to get a 1.0 graduation (perfect score)
 
@Magisch Maybe. But it's more about the idea of kids teaching other kids, or kids being able to cling to other kids... I think teaching is the teacher's job, not something that should be imposed on kids...
 
@Tinkeringbell I disagree. Being asked to help others can greatly improve social skills and self estimate levels.
 
@Shadow9 True. But that's what group assignments are for, IMO.
 
9:09 AM
Asked, not required to.
 
@Tinkeringbell group assignments are a terrible idea :D
 
@Tinkeringbell Helping others learn is usually a mutually beneficial arrangement
I used to abuse school time to prep for tests by doing that. Teaching something makes you remember it more
 
^^
 
and sometimes if you're helping someone do a thing, you learn from someone elses perspective
points at a certain Q&A network
 
9:11 AM
@Shadow9 Yeah... the thing that teacher did was impose it. Like, we were supposed to do a row of math equations by memory (without a calculator)... It's hugely annoying if you're in the middle of a complicated one only to be poked by the kid that can't do 64/8 and asked to explain that.
I'm not there to teach that?
 
@JourneymanGeek That's voluntarily though... If I don't want to answer a question, I don't have to. If I have my own work to do, I won't be interrupted by questions unless I choose to be...
 
In fact, at some point I was paid to tutor a classmate for a big test
I used the tutoring as an opportunity to shore up my own prep
 
@Magisch Yes and no. If you're separated by learning level, it might. Because at that point, you're teaching others stuff you're still learning yourself.
 
@Tinkeringbell that's true. My daughter was just asked recently to help other kids in her class in math, after telling the teacher she's getting bored during class. The help is after school hours, with the homework.
 
9:13 AM
If you have to explain stuff way below your learning level, that benefit goes away or decreases exponentially.
 
@Shadow9 Is she getting paid for that?
I always drew a very clear line on after school time. Either pay me or ask during school time
 
@Shadow9 We got fun stuff to do, like drawing or extra challenging exercises to do for when we were done with our 'regular' work to prevent that boredom. Those were always good. It's even more disappointing if you didn't get to do those because you were stuck explaining 64/8
 
our math teacher used to hold the better students responsible when anyone failed a test hard
 
That's horrible.
He's the teacher, if his students fail, he failed, not any of you...
 
anyone getting a failing grade at the end of the year would mean nobody got a perfect grade either
in a twisted way it sort of worked. we were all tryharding the hell out of that class
 
9:18 AM
Yeah, kinda lazy... isn't it? But at least you were in that class with mostly same level people?
I mean, sure, even in classes based on learning levels there's going to be some variation... but it shouldn't drain as hard as being in a class with someone two levels lower?
 
@Magisch no. But having issues with self esteem, this will surely give her much more than any amount of money can.
@Magisch even as a kid??
 
@Magisch true for our math teacher. She was deaf, so for a long time many tests where a dictation exercise.... Two of us doing the exercises, and the rest writing down the results.
 
@Magisch that's... plain terrible.
 
@Tinkeringbell I still feel a bit bad for the 2 weak students in that class the peer pressure must have been immense
especially since we had a comparably large amount of people who really wanted the perfect grade
@Shadow9 yeah. School commanded my school time, but all the other time was mine. I think I charged 15€/hr for tutoring
 
@Magisch that's... interesting. Since what age? What your parents thought about it?
 
9:21 AM
After a while, the teacher started to ask us to leave the classroom when she was doing any oral test. For written ones.... she went as far as preparing different exercise for each student in the class.
 
I told my daughter she can start charging for babysitting when she'll be 12.
 
@Shadow9 my mom died when I was 11, my dad never had an issue with me charging for tutoring, and neither did the parents of people I tutored for. Weren't that many, but I made sure my time was actually mine
 
@BlueSoul that's a lot of work...
@Magisch that's good. But what about social activities?
 
I used to play table tennis and all that. Tutoring isn't a social activity, it's more like work
 
Did you e.g. go to movie with the kids afterward you taught them?
@Magisch true.
 
9:23 AM
@Shadow9 are you saying I can get paid for babysitting this room?
 
And being paid means the parents have expectations too
 
@rene sure
$1 for a kick
$0.01 for moved message
 
It's somewhat silly but I have a pretty firm stance on unpaid labor. Anything I do for my workplace has to be compensated
this here and open source stuff is different because it's my own choice to engage in it. Work is work and work has to pay me for every bit of my labor they want to extract
 
@Shadow9 wait for it and you owe me a dollar ...
 
Who said I'm the one who pays?
:D
looking at @Bart
@Magisch that's.... fair.
 
9:40 AM
Rene is the babysitter? My bum needs powdering.
 
be careful what you wish for
 
I can kick your bum so hard it powders itself ...
 
I just pictured that in my mind and my day is happier
Ooh @Tink I have spent a lot of time on that subject and I have a lot of musings
The problem is both sides of the argument rely on some utopian lines of thinking and there are obvious flaws in both of their arguments
Neither side gets it right, but if I ultimately had to decide, specialized learning is the way to go in my opinion
 
Specialized how?
@Gimby is it red already?
 
@Shadow9 I mean the idea of "focus" groups in learning is a good one, and not elitist, at least not unfairly
 
9:48 AM
@rene yikes. Don't kick the baby
 
This goes against my normally lenient attitude on learning and IQ, because I am of the firm opinion that, aside from a select few, most people learn things more or less the same way, and the differences in learning are way blown out of proportion
In practice, though, whatever the reason, the will does differ. A lot of kids (and adults) can learn and do a myriad of things, provided the right guidance, but they don't.
So, I still have a lot of philosophobabble to produce, but I guess I'll get to my point.
There is a right and wrong way to focus on a small portion of kids. The wrong way would be to discriminate in the chances. Every kid deserves to have equal chances of perfect learning guidance if it was possible, even if it's not happening because of economical and sometimes cultural reasons. But the system needs to optimize to balance its push. Let the wills flourish, is what I mean.
 
Sounds very wise. :)
Did your will flourish?
 
If a kid does not see any point in getting an A streak, then no amount of pushing helps. This is why abolishing all borders does harm.
It is easily provable that the smarter kid, mostly because they want to learn, as opposed to just being inherently the next Einstein, will outperform themselves if they're in a "helpful" environment. Ideally, in a class where you want learning done, every goal should be aligned
BRB
 
10:04 AM
CNC
 
I'm learning wood whittling atm
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness YouTube?
 
@Shadow9 from youtube? nah
 
My father made wood statues, sold them in Africa.
 
from a book, and my imagniation.
 
10:06 AM
@djsmiley2kindarkness nice!
 
so far carved a heart shaped hanging decoration
I'm really pleased with it, tho it needs some more clean up
 
Wait. Paper book?! Those still exist??? :D
 
one edge isn't as straight as i'd like, etc
haha
 
@It'sOver No worries... I have work to do :P
 
@Shadow9 I wonder if there are audio books on woodcarving :)
 
10:10 AM
Except for the internet, that show is... strangely precient
 
@Shadow9 Something I didn't realize until years later (i.e. last month) was that constantly being bored in class because I already knew the material and just deciding to read ahead was likely connected to my having ADHD
 
good morning/afternoon everyone
 
g'noon
 
hello
 
10:26 AM
@Shadow9 of course. easier to murder
 
@YaakovEllis Not a fan of evening people?
 
Technically evening is also after noon.
 
I am a fan of people in all timezones. Is there anyone reading this for whom it is evening (after 6pm) right now, when I am writing this? If yes, I will give you a personal shout out
 
good save that edit :)
 
According to my diagram (XKCD clock), it's 6PM in Australia
 
10:28 AM
I'm not a fan (because I am not a circular device designed to shift air by spinning)
;)
 
Oof, dad joke.
 
@JohnDvorak Quick, find an australian!
 
... or a Far Asian
 
@Gimby is it still a dad joke if you have no kids?
 
@Magisch Imaginary dad joke.
 
10:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek perhaps?
 
Too bad there's no Internet in China
 
10:41 AM
@YaakovEllis yes 😁
 
@JourneymanGeek I salute you and wish you a very good evening!
 
I'll be up all night 😆
Joys of shift work
 
@JourneymanGeek they pay you to chat here?
 
Yes, but they don't know that...
 
a lot of devs have considerable freedom in using their time. down time is expected and employers dont usually mind as long as things stay on schedule or productivity high
but journey isn't dev, iirc it's some monitoring type job
 
10:47 AM
@Magisch I know all about that
 
I can imagine ;)
after all, both you and I are at work right now, presumably
 
I mean Yaakov is chatting here, he's obviously at work
 
I need to hang in here for 5-10 more minutes... then it's lunch time :P
 
I'm putting off writing database triggers
 
I am waiting for StackOverflow.sln to compile in Visual Studio
 
10:54 AM
Ah... compiling.xkcd ;)
 
sadly most things I work with are interpreted languages, so no compiling to hide behind
 
@YaakovEllis I do helldesk, application support and monitoring
Which actually means.... If things don't go horribly wrong or interesting....
Kinda sorta
(I actually just pop in periodically and randomly 😁)
 
Actually, I'm chatting from "work" too
 
11:10 AM
@YaakovEllis just push to master and let the build server sort it out ...
(I actually had a teammate that did push his changes into source control to have the buildserver report the compile errors to him. He didn't have his own branch so if you happened to do a pull and he was the latest commiter you were in for some serious WTF?)
 
11:32 AM
How bad do you have to be to make the all-melancholy rene to go WTF is beyond my imagination
 
Maybe it wasn't a surprised-tone kind of WTF, but a eyes-in-palms-sobbing kind of WTF
 
So . . . I can't be bothered to check where I dropped the mic, but if you were ever interested, we could go on with the education discussion @Tink @Sha
 
@rene what build server? :P
 
Later, I mean
 
real developers commit to master untested and let the software war it out with itself
 
11:37 AM
@It'sOver Sure, bring it on :)
 
(dont actually do that it will make your manager angry and your coworkers sad)
 
What manager? :P
 
Right now I'm looking for something silly to say, not bask in random thought
 
my manager has never written a line of code in his life
and is also the CTO
 
That's supposed to be bad
I think
 
11:38 AM
random thoughts are often good...
Distracting, but good.
 
@Magisch trust me, you don't want my line of code in your software ...
 
@rene XD... I'm now imagining those drawings we used to as kids... where a different person would draw a head/body/legs without seeing what the others did draw...
Though all software is something like that, at least when you're working on the same giraffe you know you're supposed to draw part of the giraffe! :P
 
> Random thoughts:
I'm hungry.
I'm hungry.
I'm hungry.
 
Go find food?
 
@Gimby must be! ;)
 
11:48 AM
that's a pretty simple thought.
 
@V2Blast how so?
@djsmiley2kindarkness we are simple
Let's KISS!
:D
 
My random thought of the moment was, if a feather and a bowling ball accelerate downwards at the same speed, can you take a bowling ball, and stretch it out enough, to slow itself, like a feather does?
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness whale is better
 
Or petunias.
 
Both ^
@YaakovEllis what?! Easier to zip the books... ;)
Even with pkzip
 
11:53 AM
When the Earth crashes into a stationary whale, at 10m/s/s acceleration, is it not just trying to make the whale more aerodynamic?
 
@It'sOver still?
 
Is there anything, when collided with, that doesn't try to conform to a more aerodynamic shape?
Non-newtonian fluids be damned.
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness sure, me
 
What form do you take @Shadow9?
 
@Shadow9 Well yeah, considering I've been sitting down since
 
11:54 AM
@djsmiley2kindarkness 9 dimensional shadow, of course.
 
Splattering against the ground tends to make objects less aerodynamic, not more so
 
@Sha I gotta say, your eyebrows are hawt.
 
@It'sOver I sell them, you want one?
 
Nah
 
@JohnDvorak no ground in space
 
11:55 AM
To each their own eyebrows
 
@It'sOver so what you want them to do?
 
Just be there
 
@It'sOver no food for thought? Sad.
 
There are plenty but I've been reading all night long instead of sleeping
My brain is getting fat.
 
Should be drained, not fat.
 
11:57 AM
I'm not sure about the things you've been reading but they're not supposed to do that
 
@Tinkeringbell I hope you're saving that to a Giraffics Interchange Format file.
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness actually things for splat. Hardly aerodynamic
 
@PM2Ring I wish... :P
 
@It'sOver now you tell me? :(
 
Speaking of zip compression, it's nice to see that Mark Adler is still active on the network. space.stackexchange.com/users/265/mark-adler
 
12:09 PM
@PM2Ring huh. Any verification it's really him? No blue "V".
 
I am the reference, having been part of all of that. This post could be cited in Wikipedia as an original source. — Mark Adler Oct 16 '15 at 16:38
Also see his numerous posts on Space Exploration about the Mars Spirit Rover.
 
12:31 PM
@PM2Ring SO question was closed, of course.
Only Jaydles saved it from doom being deleted by the users.
@It's ate already?
 
no, it's only 4:10 for him
 
Perfect time for an afternoon snack :)
 
@Shadow9 That highlights a shift in SO culture tbh. Today the same question would get you some downvotes, would be closed and eventually deleted.
 
12:46 PM
@Mithical so? But he didn't sleep, so hours aren't relevant anymore. ;)
@Magisch for sure, yes. And these days we don't have anyone to save such questions anymore.
 
@Shadow9 Well, it is a bit too broad... OTOH, deleting a question with such an awesome answer and 290k views seems... sub-optimal to me. A historical lock would be ok, I suppose.
 
@Shadow9 Not yet, still working
@Mithical Uh . . . lunch, actually
 
@It'sOver tell your brain to listen to your body
 
HEY BRIAN
 
no no
Mr. Nickel isn't related.
 
12:53 PM
He should listen too
 
@Brian you listen?
Maybe he's still busy doing this:
Oct 29 '17 at 14:16, by Brian Nickel
@ShadowWizard nothing glamorous. Was documenting https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/358097/1-rep-user-requesting-access-to-‌​a-gallery-chatroom during bug duty.
 
BTW, what is "artifact quality"?
Is SO a museum already?
 
@It'sOver think it's about quality of images/video, i.e. pixelated
What's the context?
 
hmm
 
12:57 PM
> Downvotes 99.985%
Can we already have that drama please, I can't wait anymore
@Shadow9 What would be wrong with artifact quality on SO?
 
"Artifact quality" ? Wut?
 
That's the least thing I expect to be on that list, if it's your definition
 
> outdated answers, poorly framed questions, etc.
 
What is wrong with "post quality"
Not English enough?
 
Ask @rene
 
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