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4:01 PM
@g3rv4 is the crash due to the move to .NET Core, changing how locks are working? Or not related to it?
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard nope, not that I'm aware of at least (the scheduler calls an SO route, and SO still runs 4.6.2)
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard True, though a tag may look cleaner, requires only 1 person, and will help people 'keep a positive question record', which is important to some
 
take all I say... as an observer's take (I can be very wrong about all this)
 
@g3rv4 sure thing... BTW, what you do these days, i.e. what team are you on in SO/SE?
Still the localization group?
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard Enterprise
 
4:04 PM
oh, nice
 
nah, the localization thing is something I do on the side
 
....holy
 
I worked on the talent team and then moved to SOE (a year and a half ago)
 
*takes hat off to @Shog*
48
 
@Shog is still not pingable
omg.. well, no surprise.
 
Yeah, that's... A surprise
 
He got worn out for a long time.
Not being here is clear sign, at least to me... and comments he made.
And that latest crisis was the worst, he had to clean all the crap.
Take what you and @Journeyman do these days, and multiply it by 100... if not 1000. @Tink
He was there when it was the most heated, heck think he sent a warning even to me.
(Can't know for sure, the warning is anonymous)
 
Oh, I know. He did do a great deal of stuff throughout that, which is certainly very appreciated...
 
Anyway, hope he'll at least post a goodbye on Meta.
 
4:12 PM
@ShadowTheBurningWizard he app still works for me anyway.
 
@terdon sure, but it won't last for long time now.
 
@Mithical oh wow. Just... wow. That's almost enough to make me want to go on twitter :(
 
:'( :'(
 
oh, damn
 
4:17 PM
He still got the diamonds so at least it's not instant. Hopefully they gave him at least a month, so he can also train the next (?) CM. (yeah yeah, I'm over optimistic here, I know.)
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard Shog would be pretty hard to replace
 
Hard but possible
Also more likely they won't replace him.
Just leave it with one less CM.
 
Let's just hope they won't badmouth him like they did with Monica
 
It all fits in my personal guess that they're shutting down meta, and possibly all non-SO sites.
 
Can... We not do this kind of speculation? It's how rumours start and well... This is bad enough as is...
7
 
4:21 PM
All we have is speculation. Nobody talks to us.
 
Let's all just wallow in misery but be careful not to make bad, worse?
@canon I understand... Hence just a kind request.
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard we don't know what's happening either
and quite honestly...
 
I'm not sure I want to know.
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard we're in shock
 
4:25 PM
@ShadowTheBurningWizard Shog isn't really one CM though. He has a presence and commands a level of respect (OK, and hate, in some quarters) across the network that no other employee and very few users (Jon Skeet maybe) can match.
2
For many people, Shog is SE.
7
 
@terdon still, it's all in the veteran/hardcore users level. 99% of the SE users overall have no idea who Shog is.
 
....cause for a while, Shog was SE.
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard True, I guess.
 
@terdon there's 2-3 folks I consider to be a linchpin of the community
 
I'd like to hope it was a principled departure. If it wasn't... then SO leadership are greater fools than I ever dreamed
2
 
4:26 PM
I could imagine shog leaving
 
@JourneymanGeek Yes. But none of them are as widely recognized network-wide as Shog, I would think.
 
And the 1% of the users who do know Shog... well... didn't get a pat on the back, to say the least, for long time. (From SE management.)
 
@terdon Shog and Tim are 2
 
@JourneymanGeek I mean, we don't know if he did or not... people are guessing based on the presence of the word "suddenly".
 
Not really a guess? It's clear.
If it was his choice he won't use that word.
 
@JourneymanGeek Yes, Tim too. But Tim is less present in the boonies of the network and the various old timer chats.
I'm not talking about who is objectively more important (and I wouldn't presume to judge) but I do feel that Shog's name is the most recognizable by your average avid SE user.
 
technically, "suddenly" could mean the workplace conditions have changed drastically enough to trigger a "voluntary" leave.
 
hmm.... highly doubt it.
 
But yeah... SE is playing big on the footshooting strategy...
 
@JohnDvorak doubling down over and over...
 
4:31 PM
Now all that's missing to make it a perfect ending is a "Sorry to see you go" post.
 
@JohnDvorak If it were voluntary, it's hard to imagine Shog not making an announcement
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard they already made that post. "If you left because you don't like our policies -thanks for saving us the trouble."
 
@JohnDvorak not shooting, it's taking off the leg.
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard without cauterization
 
@canon hehe
@JohnDvorak but with a big axe, at least
Tim Post is the second leg. And now we wait.
 
4:32 PM
not a machine gun?
 
@JohnDvorak nah, too messy. Since Shog used to clean the mess... nobody to clean it now.
 
> John Dvorak says "stop bleeding already"
 
@ShadowTheBurningWizard I dunno. If this is the issue we think it is Tim has been more on board with that position than Shog ever was
 
@Machavity hmm... so maybe the leg is going to become the head.
Still, leg will be lost.
 
4:39 PM
I was gonna argue for the "left voluntarily" position by saying that he wouldn't have had his Staff/Mod badges still if he were fired, but they're gone now.
 
@Das_Geek o.O
 
Already?
 
@Das_Geek oh... it took about an hour, yeah.
So it's now beyond doubt: Shog9 got fired/kicked out of SE.
 
Yeah, which maybe it could still be argued that he notified SE that he was leaving and they initiated the status change then?
 
And this is time to go home, and reflect on that during the drive.
 
4:41 PM
How long did it take to remove those from resigned mods...days?
 
@Machavity Jesus Christ, that flag... I whole-heartedly agree with Cody.
 
@canon yep
 
@curious needed a CM to take a look, that's the time. Removing the diamonds is one click away, probably.
 
Tim's response is pretty disheartening too.
 
@canon on the deleted meta SO post?
 
4:43 PM
yeah
 
Can't see that :/
 
@curious Too much to copy/paste, but basically a user thought that a comment starting with "Dude" was sexist. SO mod disagreed and declined a red flag on the comment. Tim Post said that position was unacceptable
 
Oh, that one. As I recall, Tim's position was a bit more nuanced than that though.
 
He stated, "Dude is, in fact, harmful [...] we can't agree here [...]"
 
Never mind, I shouldn't have said anything. I don't remember it well enough to have a valid opinion.
 
4:50 PM
holy heck
Robert Cartaino's diamond is gone as well
4
 
Whaaaaa?
 
AAAAAAAAA
 
animuson, Cat, Grace, JNat, Tim, still have theirs
 
Next week, on The Apprentice: Stack Overflow...
 
1 message moved to Trashcan
 
(Jon also still has his diamond, as does Juan)
 
This shit is nerve wrecking...
 
@Mithical for now?
 
Jon would be another painful departure
Never quite as high profile as Shog, but still a respectable CM
 
Jon is one of my faves, for sure
 
5:00 PM
@Machavity ok so it's not related to the current mess, more of the previous months background...thank you
Sort of grasping at straws here :/
 
Same, running around like a headless chicken.
 
Rob
Then there were seven of 10.
 
I leave the country for one day, and this is the first thing I come back to
 
Every single one of the CMs would be a painful departure. Some may not be as well known to the broader network, but they've all been working their collective behinds off trying to keep this place from falling apart.
9
 
5:09 PM
🚽
 
Every single CM is a treasure as far as I'm concerned.
6
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, username similar to website in answer (61): Connect the TV to the online TV viewing application by ghdsports on android.SE
 
Would anyone be up to renaming this room the Shog9 Memorial Tavern?
 
Rather not, as he's apparently not the only one. Feels insensitive to others.
 
5:17 PM
and would subvert the point of the room (which is not exclusively to reminisce about Shog)
the entire starboard being devoted to him (and the current situation) ought to be enough, IMHO
 
@TylerH that too but that sounds too cold and reasonable to think about right now ;)
 
This sucks
 
^ understatement of the year
 
And it's not even halfway through January yet.
 
@Stevoisiak I for one am a little too emotional for that right now.
and I think the folks we are thinking of would still expect better of us
 
5:29 PM
This.... has the potential to cause an ever bigger fallout than the last incident. That's all I'll say for now.
 
@Mithical eh sometimes people part ways for reasons neither side likes but both sides understand. I recall this happening last year to Blizz where a well liked and known CM was laid off. Everybody understood the 'why' and nobody liked it.
 
At least Shog9 has stuff he can point to, for prospective employers, without any kind of shadow hanging over it.
 
@Mgetz no one gets why
 
But that didn't change the facts of the matter
 
literally no one gets why
 
5:31 PM
I can tell you why
because the company doesn't care about the community
they're loosing money and cutting as much as they can to sav
 
@JourneymanGeek We don't because we're not in the purview if those that are decide to be public then that's their decision
 
they need to sell the 'product' now
 
Ash
This makes no sense and I hate it and I hate that we aren't going to ever get to understand it
9
 
@Ash pretty much
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness Rumours don't really help. I understand you feel this way but presenting it as a fact just makes things worse...
 
5:33 PM
There are quite a few possible directions that make sense, none of which are malicious. Let's not speculate.
 
Ash
Like I get it, they're a business, they have no need to tell us anything but after building something where we felt heard and cared for, it feels like they're doing so much to undo that.
 
</guesswork> ?
 
Ash
It just sucks being in the dark.
 
@Ash sigh
 
You don't get a new CEO when things are greaaaaaaaaaat.
 
5:34 PM
I think the mods feel about the same way
maybe a little worse
 
s/mods/community
oh right
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness Sure, as long as we're not stating things as facts that aren't confirmed yet... I'm honestly not sure if I can deal with another rumour mill where I don't know or can't talk about the facts again. So I'd really appreciate it if everybody could just make do with whatever we get :/
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness Not always. Sometimes you start something small and it gets bigger. Much bigger. At that point you want someone who can help your business at a higher level
 
It's really not, and you don't have to pretend it is... Just please, please... Don't start a rumour mill again
2
 
5:43 PM
While this rumor mill may answer the question, it is better to post verifiable facts and let the rumor mill die. Rumor mill-only answers cause anguish and contribute to excessive downvotes and flags.
2
 
@user400654 it certainly is not
 
it's not what?
i mean
i don't understand
 
@user400654 Shog9 is gone and we don't quite know why.
 
right
 
5:54 PM
It's not fine, and we don't need to pretend that it is, as the dog in the "this is fine" meme is doing.
 
Lol
 
@rossipedia it is messed up
Yanno? Until the end of last year, I really wanted to be a community manager here
It was a community I strongly believed in, and that we could weather any storm
(Applied twice. They made excellent picks that were not me)
 
👍
 
> "But there are dreams that cannot be... And there are storms we cannot weather...."
 
but for all the talk of the community mattering, from the new CEO or others
I don't see it
We've lost too many good folks that actually knew what made this place great
3
Made it home
and yet, in the rush to build a shining city on the hill, they seem happy to pave it over
 
6:03 PM
I hope those people find somewhere better.... and let us know
 
i mean, i kinda feel like that's been what people have been complaining about for.... 5-6 years now?
 
@user400654 it probably hurts more cause there's short periods where things seem to get better
then we're plunged into another crisis
 
just not specifically about meta, more SO or the network in general.
 
The community
Meta on its own is pretty pointless
 
All this mess happening and the company actively trying to paint over it and hide it from new users.. they just don't know what they're getting into.
By the time they find out... they've already been taken advantage of.
 
6:06 PM
the rust will show soon enough, don't worry about that
 
If the moderation sub-community were to stop, things would get exceptionally bad around here
2
 
losing Shog is as good as a burning bush when it comes to signs of the company sinking for good
 
I am sad to see shog go. He helped keep js chat from being nuked. granted... it's a shell of what it once was, but that's no fault of his.
 
SO wouldn't be what it is without Shog, I'm certain of that. And not just because they'd have already nuked meta without him :P
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this had something to do with meta
 
Oddly enough, Robert Cartaino still has a diamond on Area 51 discussion zone but not the main Area 51 site.
 
6:12 PM
@AndrasDeak It could be about so many things that it is pretty pointless to speculate. Regardless of the reason it was certainly a mistake.
 
Shog, Robert Cartaino, Grace Note, and animuson are no longer listed on the CM team here (I have been informed they are on a different team - yay!)
 
Grace and Kyle are now on the Support team.
 
@rossipedia I believe Grace Note and Animuson are a different team
 
That is good to know.
 
> Technically not a part of the Community Team anymore (we are on the Support Team now)
 
6:14 PM
@Rubiksmoose it was only a mistake if he was fired
Shog could've quit facing an unacceptable situation for all we know
 
@AndrasDeak I'd say that even if he left of his own volition, that just means many more mistakes were made that lead to that reality and decision.
 
I thought we all agree that many more mistakes have already been done all around here :P
 
SHOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
 
I guess everyone noticed so far that the whole keruffle started when Joel handed over his job to the new CEO?
 
huh? what kerfuffle exactly were you talking about?
 
6:23 PM
*gestures broadly at everything*
 
@RobertColumbia Please limit yourself to 9 Gs. Thanks
 
@rossipedia ya, sure, but "everything" has been running since quite a while longer, you know?
 
eh, iunno, i feel like at this point nothing that has been done can be linked directly to the new CEO, or joel, for that matter. considering neither really seem to... communicate in ways we normal people can see. you can of course speculate/assume..
personally i'm not interested in speculation
 
@RobertColumbia Known issue, there is a bit of caching for that to be gone
 
Jan 30 '13 at 20:05, by Shog9
It's always caching
 
6:34 PM
Also, just so everyone has the full picture, there have been cases where he's used swear words and called users here bad things. (Not making an overall opinion of him, just adding in more facts to the bowl.) See scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/a/12184
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog taking that post by Kylo Ren at face value is not a good idea here.
also ... huh?
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog eh, not the time. The other user there's also one of the folks mad over old MOS
 
@Vogel612'sShadow That was the answer by someone else, and the question is truthful, I have 10k+ chat reputation and could see the deleted chat room
 
oh, I'm not saying that Shog didn't use the word...
 
*hands back the bowl to Sonic*
you can take your stuff back now
 
6:37 PM
I'm just saying that the framing by Kylo in that question is probably ... let's say at least slightly colored
 
Again, the link was to the answer, not the question.
 
Lol
really?
 
In my opinion, though, no amount of swearing is acceptable from a higher-up.
 
thank you for your opinion
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog - so... we just had a popular, well loved member of the community team let go
do you think in any way this is good timing?
5
or that its important?
 
6:40 PM
I think I'll just leave before someone suspends me again :P
 
Trying to shed light on the potential removal
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog not really
 
*sigh*
 
@AndrasDeak I'm pretty close to some suspension worthy language myself
@Mithical thank you
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Sometimes that's the only word to describe the situation
 
6:43 PM
There's a time and a place for things. The time is not now and the place is not here.
5
 
I have to say, every single time I've seen Shog cross the line, he has said exactly the things I wish I could say.
4
Yes, he has been harsh at times, but only when he'd been taken to his very limits and every time he was absolutely right, IMO.
 
@terdon sometimes, you need someone to be the designated asshole
to do the hard things
@Rubiksmoose Ya, Language
Cap will probably understand
 
And while we can point to a handful of cases where, under enormous pressure, Shog said something that wasn't polite, I can also point to hundreds of cases where he was unfailingly civil in the face of outright trolling. So...
2
 
@terdon Shog also knew folks, and this bunch
much better than most
(heh, had me talking to Art about smoke detector. Considering my views on certain things, that as gutsy :D)
 
Also, to those linking recent events to Joel's departure: correlation does not necessarily imply causation
 
6:48 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog simple fact
stuff was ok when Joel took over
 
but also, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
 
then it started to suck
now I'm not even sure what the hell is going on
 
Mobile chat interface is missing too many features
 
@JourneymanGeek To be fair, it started to suck long before Joel left.
 
@terdon pretty much
 
6:52 PM
Joel left much before Joel left
 
@JourneymanGeek And it got even worse after he left, that was the kerfuffle I was talking about.
 
and yeah this round must be the new CEO
 
that's the impression I got
@Sklivvz or just more empire building
 
look at the management page
he put new people in
 
@Sklivvz Some incompetent ones it seems
 
6:53 PM
and these two (and there are more!!!) are some of the people from the old guard pushing back
 
Introductories
> I've been a stacker for long time
 
@Sklivvz unfortunately we're pretty powerless
 
I think times they are a-changing, if you want something like we used to have I heard there's a new open source project being built hint hint
 
6:56 PM
@Sklivvz eh, I actually was hoping to work for the SE I loved :(
but that seems gone
 

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