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12:31 AM
@Mari-LouA that's part of it. And that it wasn't really a question - even somewhat by your own admission
It was a series of quotes ._.
@DavidA Mod deletions is part of the normal deletion process
in some cases, we do need to be able to be the tiebreaker, or actually be able to make decisions that stick
 
Rob
12:54 AM
^ There is also a comment about 'no obligation to host discussions about matters under litigation'. There's a better explained discussion in the comments, somewhere, but that's what I found in 10 mins, there's also the well known Q&A.
 
*rubs ears* I knew there was a reason I generally use earbuds over headphones when possible, despite the better sound quality from the headphones... the headphones really start to hurt after a few hours.
They just crush your ears against your head and... that hurts.
 
lol
@Mithical depends on the headphones
 
Well, of course.
 
and they kinda break in after a while. Some folks kinda prestretch them with books
 
My earbuds died a couple days ago, though, so I was stuck borrowing the headphones.
Earbuds always die so quickly. :(
 
1:02 AM
oh
 
@JourneymanGeek So let the community decide if it had to stay closed. You, as a moderator, are supposed to support the community not make their choices for them. Furthermore, the question had attracted a sizeable number of upvotes, I like to think that one or more quotes struck a chord in members.
3
 
If you can get em - xiomi's pistons (get the metal ones) tend to survive me ;p
@Mari-LouA uhm. I've been a moderator for a couple of years
 
These were samsung earbuds, they were supposed to last
 
We need the freedom to make these decisions
especially in situations like these
 
The opinion of the community has precedent over your own personal likes or dislikes.
3
 
1:03 AM
cause everyone seems to think they know better
 
They lasted... a couple of months, which is longer than some, but... still. They were a hundred NIS, I'd expect them to last a bit longer than that.
 
@Mari-LouA and yet, we're expected and trusted to make these decisions
and we're going to have to make them
 
@Mari-LouA Moderators have the tools to override the community because they sometimes need to use them. It's a judgement call.
 
@JourneymanGeek I feel I am blacklisted, am I mistaken?
 
1:05 AM
Just because something was popular does not necessarily mean that it was productive.
3
 
But we might not agree with your view on certain things and specific cases
 
Nope? I'm not mistaken. Good to know. I used to believe that mods act silently in the background, and act as mediators not as generals. What happened to dialogue? What happened to the person who said "We need to stop yelling" and “If you have a specific personal issue with [username] - maybe let her know?”
7
"But we might not agree with your view on certain things and specific cases" and that always justifies deletion, does it? Yet, not one comment by Monica Cellio has been deleted because she has real influence.
 
Mari-Lou... you're not on any blacklist. Having your post deleted isn't always a black mark against you. It means that in this case, your post was determined to not be constructive enough to be worth keeping around. The way it was posted, it didn't seem to be very conducive to moving forward, which is what we need to be focusing on now. Please don't take this personally, or personally go after JMG.
 
@Mithical I've had more than one post deleted. If it was only one, would I be here?
 
We get yelled at a lot
and we keep trying to do the right thing
 
1:13 AM
I am personally going after all three moderators. I am very fair, and what's more I did not vote for any one of them. I've said my piece.
 
*sigh*
We need to be focusing on what we can do to improve things going forwards, not constantly rehashing things that are in the past.
2
If you want to hold a grudge against the moderators... I can't do anything about that. I will say that it will make moving forwards very difficult, though.
The moderators are in a very difficult position right now, with everything being a mess. They're going to need to sometimes make tough decisions, such as deleting popular posts, because that's what needs to happen in order to keep the site running and moving forwards. Let's try not to make things harder for them and instead try to understand the reasons behind the actions.
4
Because I know the three MSE moderators to a certain extent, and I find it hard to believe that any of them would delete something without a good reason.
 
@Mari-LouA that... is not an attitude that will get you anywhere
@Mithical I spoiled myself on headphones a couple years ago... Sennheiser PXC 550's. Super comfy.
 
@Mari-LouA If you're going to "go after us"....
I don't think that will be very productive
Yes, we were hand picked - and the situation we started off in was very different. We... have to deal with it however, or quit
And I am bloody tired of people trying to bully me into quitting
 
1:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek I'll take your lunch money if you don't quit! ;)
 
@TheforestofReinstateMonica oi, squirt, you got a problem with JMG, you got a problem with me
*tough guy mumbling*
 
@TheforestofReinstateMonica joke is on you. I pack lunch
 
On an unrelated note, I hate Firefox setting browser.ctrlTab.recentlyUsedOrder to true.
When I use ctrl+tab, I want to switch tabs, not look at my recent tabs!
Oh god the new close vote reasons are so confusing. :/
Two of them seem redundant together.
Needs focus vs needs clarity?
I have a feeling this will make the regular "too broad" arguments far more complex...
 
1:51 AM
needs focus = too broad
needs clarity = unclear what you are asking
 
I get it, but it's not as intuitive.
This will be a problem to many people, especially with English not being their first language.
Too broad and unclear what you're asking are basic, plain English phrases.
"Needs focus" in particular isn't very easy to understand.
 
I actually suspect its harder for us than new users
we're set in our ways :D
 
Oh it's far harder for us than new users, but it'll still be hard for new users from an English perspective.
1
Q: selinux : blocking sudo and su usage by placing user into user_t profile

philippeI am trying to block privileges escalations from unprivileged accounts such as www-data. Basically, if my web server is getting compromised, crackers may find ways to escalate (vulnerabilities found in sudo? root password reuse from another cracked server ?). I want to find a way to forbid this,...

How is this question "active today"?
I don't see any edits for either OP or the answer. Both are from '18.
It doesn't have a bump notice either.
 
2:16 AM
and yet it was bumped
 
derp
I guess the notice text expired or something.
 
Rob
@TheforestofReinstateMonica I used to use TabMix+ to get full control of my Tabs, unfortunately it's only compatible up to version 56.
 
I don't use any extensions.
Well, none that don't come with Tor Browser, at least.
 
Rob
Download the source and fix it the way you want.
 
Well I just changed it in about:config. But I still don't like it.
 
Rob
2:24 AM
In a few decades, when AI becomes highly advanced, it will not like you. ;)
 
2:35 AM
"In a few decades"
 
2:56 AM
Ok... wasabi flavoured mushroom chips....
I don't actually know if I like it or not...
On the other hand, whoo, it clears out the sinuses like a blowtorch
 
Rob
3:21 AM
@TheforestofReinstateMonica Bad human.
 
I'm surprised that SO considers some very mild comments to be rude, when on other sites, comments like this are totally acceptable (in my opinion as well, but not everyone):
> indeed, it's amazing how people don't even do a basic search on keywords, before asking the same question.
(In this case it's a bit worse since the question actually is a bit different from a duplicate)
 
Rob
 
3:41 AM
@JourneymanGeek haha! I had wasabi peas during a cold once and noticed that (it's not subtle!). It definitely works! Get well soon
 
@curious it... sneaks up on you
 
Rob
3:57 AM
@TheforestofReinstateMonica Check the Bump FAQ if you have unusual bumps. Reason: answer at 0 (now 1), and that's recent activity. The bumps were recorded.
As for "lack of a Post Notice" write an answer to the announcement "Post Notices" instead of writing a new question on Meta.
 
Oh, is that a recent change?
 
Rob
4:46 AM
The new notices are live everywhere, it's ~1 week old. If you like / dislike something you can post it as an answer there (doing that is not "new").
 
I haven't been on for a few days so I must not have noticed.
I actually had no power for the last couple of days.
 
Rob
5:11 AM
I hate power failures. Fortunately I live near the city center so our power is restored first. My last couple of "power failures" (if you would call them that, I would) were a few seconds long. Previous to that I've had a couple that lasted an hour or two, once several hours. 😱
 
In my case, I feel double unlucky, because my generator was also not working.
 
Rob
Yes, a generator is essential if you have long failures (and like having power).
 
A working generator is a plus. :P
 
Rob
I have a half dozen LED flashlights, s! I even have a few sets of Night Vision goggles. 😆
 
Heh nice. I have a few flashlights and a crappy UPS that gives me almost 5 minutes of power.
And one crank powered flashlight... somewhere... probably lost forever.
 
Rob
5:16 AM
The UPS should send a signal to your OS to shut down your computer properly, so nothing is lost - if it's set up correctly.
 
Yeah it does over RS-232. Still annoying since it means I don't have much time to finish things.
 
Rob
Crank FLs and Radios are a good idea.
Good old '232, luckily computers still have that Port.
 
At least server mobos.
I like RS-232 simply because it's so simple and reliable.
Perfect for low-bandwidth communication.
 
Rob
I used to use it for my 300 baud modem.
My cellphone's USB port is about 4 million times faster.
 
Remember when you could use an audio jack to transmit data from tapes? :P
And listen to the beautiful unique sounds of a tape loading on an old home computer system.
And then you'd hear that long high-pitched "vzzzzzz" for 30 seconds and get pissed that whoever wrote the software didn't compress that burst of 1s and thought to make you wait instead.
 
Rob
5:24 AM
 
Was thinking of Speccy, but Commodore was also great.
I don't think C64 played the tape as it loaded though, did it?
 
Rob
You could listen to the C64 audio on fast forward, you'd count the breaks to skip to the program you wanted if you had short ones (tape counter was not accurate if you fast forward).
I really liked the 56K modem connection sounds. It sounded like it was having a cow, you knew it was trying!
 
@TheforestofReinstateMonica Ikea actually sells a nice one
as does decathalon.
Our apartment is old and we have power outages so we tend to keep flashlights stashed in a bunch of places
 
 
4 hours later…
9:07 AM
Foxpro @rene @Bart @Glorfindel
 
thonk
I think JMG ninja'd me by about half a second.
 
The new deletion post notice is harder for me to read... the colors make it difficult to make out the names.
 
hands @Mithical a single wasabi flavoured mushroom chip
 
Wasabi? Do you have any hot pepper? I prefer the spice of a hot pepper over wasabi for some reason...
 
9:13 AM
@Mithical yup that's a very fast dog. :D
@Mithical it's very hard to get used to it, true. I just hope it's better for new users who aren't used to see it.
Red Hot Chili Peppers are an American rock band formed in Los Angeles in 1983. The group's musical style primarily consists of alternative rock with an emphasis on funk, as well as elements from other genres such as punk rock and psychedelic rock. When played live, their music incorporates elements of jam band due to the improvised nature of many of their performances. Currently, the band consists of founding members vocalist Anthony Kiedis and bassist Flea (Michael Peter Balzary), longtime drummer Chad Smith, and former touring guitarist Josh Klinghoffer. Red Hot Chili Peppers are one of the best...
 
 
2 hours later…
10:59 AM
@Mithical oh they only had wasabi. Never actually had anything wasabi flavoured before
 
@JourneymanGeek I ate raw wasabi few times.
It's... not really tasty.
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Its like a horrible trainwreck in your mouth :D
 
@JourneymanGeek nah
It was bitter at first, this I remember well, then.... hot? Can't put the feeling into words.
But not that bad.
I mean... no worse than eating a whole hot pepper.
 
This was probably fake
 
nah
It was part of Japanese dish.
I didn't eat much, of course.
 
11:05 AM
I like spice, but not too spicy. Like... most matbucha is too bland, but plain hot peppers are a bit too strong.
 
@Mithical so black pepper on all kinds of food is fine?
what about סחוג?
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Yeah, I like black pepper. A lot.
 
@Mithical my kids also started to like it recently, including my 2.5 y/o daughter. My wife can't stand even a bit of black pepper. :/
 
lol
I like mine black, plentiful and freshly cracked ;p
 
@JourneymanGeek oh, the whole grains? I like it, but using grounded pepper, it's more common to buy.
 
11:17 AM
meh
We get whole grains cause we grind our own spices
 
@JourneymanGeek oh, nice!
 
and the fresh stuff is just better #peppersnob
 
I tried a dish called "Spicy Indian Dahl" the other week. That was perfect.
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard we have a secret family recipie for rasam mix
and we have ... 4-5 basic ones
Rasam (traditional), Rasam (udupi style), kuzhambu (basically gravy), compounded chilly powder (side for dosa and idli...)....
 
@Mithical sounds good... where?
stealing @JourneymanGeek's secret recipes
 
11:28 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard A restaurant. ;)
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard "secret"
My mom would give them to you, but you'd still have to make it
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I was the 1st delete voter
 
@rene show off
:D
@JourneymanGeek good! So please send to my home address. Tanks in advantage! :P
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard thanks for noticing.
 
 
6 hours later…
5:38 PM
Starts in a few hours.
 
5:52 PM
does my hatred for hats transfer from previous years?
also, can I hate hats anonymously :p
 
I think you have to toggle it each year...
 
can't say "hatred" without "hat" lol
also "red"
 
red hats are best :)
 
hmm what does that say about the iconic christmas red hat
also certain subset of linux users
 
If you're knitting this year and are frustrated at the lack of colors, I've got a userscript for that.
5
 
5:57 PM
I have a yarn colour pack and sample cards :P I'm fine :)
 
6:48 PM
For me it's less of "hatred" and more of "whatever"
I would have been more excited were it not for today's events on meta
 
7:09 PM
@JohnDvorak Yeah, we're working on it... but until then, I'm sorry y'all have to deal with a never ending flood of negativity, answers that don't actually answer questions, reposting of and linking to deleted (r/a) content every other post, and people that weren't that much involved in moderating meta suddenly knowing better than the people that have done this for (often) years. :)
 
Three suspensions in a day, for seemingly zero reason. That's got to get people worried...
 
I count only two, and those were not for zero reason. Pick any of the above and apply as wished, or feel free to make up your own :) People seem perfectly capable of doing that for the third I think you're talking about as well.
 
Year long suspensions for old veteran users are given away like candies at carnival.
 
Thank you for your reply. It is true I get easily worried.
I still can't see the suspensions as being warranted...
 
Do you want meta to work? Then getting rid of what I described in my first message is necessary.
 
7:17 PM
By purging a large part of the userbase?
 
Oh, rather not. But we can only send so many warnings....
If people behave, there's no need to suspend them... btw a suspension isn't a purge.
I'd rather purge the behaviour than the users exhibiting it, but sometimes people refuse to change :(
 
Anything I can do to calm down those worried the suspensions may come to them as well?
 
Teach them how to meta constructively?
Edit posts that are written with generous helpings of salacious language and details so others don't get tempted to engage with that instead of the actual question.
Answer only their questions, don't get side-tracked into debating anything that's not constructive (like reasons for suspension, deletion... anything that needs more information than you have)... If they do ask questions the community can't full well answer, ask them to raise flags, or use contact us.
Let people know when their comment threads are no longer aimed at discussing whatever is in the question/answer, and flag for a mod to clean those up...
 
I have no idea what I said in the middle of last night that's on the starboard, but it's probably relevant.
 
And rene's advice is good: If they are thinking twice about posting something... perhaps they shouldn't. Mods are often in this chatroom, we can clarify stuff in here, help hammer out a good question if necessary.
@Mithical I have no idea what I did last night... I must admit my younger brother has started out-partying me :(
 
7:29 PM
I'm pretty sure last night my hands were making words in a document.
 
I slept, I know that! But I can't remember filling my bottle with water before going to sleep... I apparently did though.
 
7:43 PM
\o
 
20 messages moved to Chimney
 
@rene o/
 
8:07 PM
meta.stackexchange.com/a/339838/281934 -> new SE guidance encouraging "Thanks, this worked for me!" comments in reply to Duplicate flags.
 
@pkamb Have a cookie ;-)
 
23
Q: What is considered acceptable feedback?

Sébastien RenauldIn the past 48 hours, a question related to the specific wording of the Code of Conduct went from being open to deleted, and its author was subject to a 7-day suspension. The topic of the question itself was about a clarification of the standard of "acting in good faith", present in the CoC, but ...

Something has changed. Regulars are not practicing what they preach(ed) is my opinion.
When inflammatory posts turned up on metas and a while later you saw the user suspended, you assumed there was a lot you missed and mods acted on what you exactly wish them to act on.
I get why it would be suspicious if the suspension was handed out by a CM or other SE staff, but if it was mods doing their work? Now we're inquiring suspensions because we agreed with the inflammatory post?
Now don't get me wrong. I don't recall the Resistance guy, since these days I'm busy fitting proteins names somewhere in the memory box, and I probably would have agreed with most of what was said, even if I wouldn't have approved the approach.
However, I can't help but notice that what we told people from the other side™ ("you can't know why they were suspended, but it was not for merely writing a rant on meta") we don't practice ourselves.
End of rant
 
8:28 PM
noted
 
.
 
@M.A.R. mumble
 
@M.A.R. Lovely rant. Good luck with the proteins.
Also.. minor remark on the bit about regulars: it's mostly names I never saw before the end of September. Makes you wonder if calling them regulars is the right word.
 
8:45 PM
@Tinkeringbell I find tuna and cheese a good source...
 
@Mithical Works for me, but add some other kinds of meat in there too :)
 
@Tinkeringbell Yeah I mean, people are either regulars of other metas, or new meta folks almost entirely which aren't all that few to be fair. I wasn't looking to write my thesis, now and then a poor choice of wording can be allowed
@Mithical MEEEAT. MAAAAYAN.
 
@M.A.R. Oh, yeah. Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were a horrible person for not getting it right
 
Mayan meat? I'm not a cannibal!
 
@Tinkeringbell I'm a horrible person for other reasons
So I am deeply offended! I want five upvotes for compensation
@Mithical Your avatar is changing way too often for me to keep up
As long as you're doing that weird pose where your chin is too far ahead
 
8:51 PM
*changes it again because the eyebrows came out weird*
 
@M.A.R. Tomorrow maybe, if I don't forget
 
I wonder if people will be in a hat-pic sharing and knitting-sharing mood this year...
 
I personally prefer this facial expression
Lol it's apparently a meme
 
to be fair, there's no question in the question either
it's an answer because it shows exactly who deleted it and why
 
user245382
@M.A.R. I would say that this is no longer a safe assumption to make, due to the amount of trust and goodwill that has been lost. Whenever something is deleted or something is suspended, the default assumption is "censorship" and "abuse of power" not "reasonable action".
 
That is easy to fix, me thinks?
 
user245382
9:31 PM
Well, step #1 would probably involve "stop censoring things that ask about the censored thing". Or, in other words, stop digging
4
 
Did you consider to change the default assumption?
 
user245382
I can't do anything to change other people's default assumptions
 
You don't need to.
 
user245382
Then I guess it's not easy to fix.
 
Yes, it is.
 
9:39 PM
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man isn't that the whole point though? Not to make negative assumptions that would lead to negative actions when it's something you're not entirely sure of?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the underlying issue in the most pressing social problems of the western societies today?
 
user245382
@M.A.R. People try to avoid making those negative assumptions by asking questions. Then those questions get deleted and the users who asked those questions get suspended.
 
Although I do have a tendency to overgeneralize things
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man I don't think it's accurate to say they're just "asking questions"
 
user245382
That sounds like a negative assumption
 
No, it's an observation.
 
user245382
You could also re-frame the "negative assumptions" as observations.
 
user245382
9:44 PM
Like "An observation: _____ was suspended for criticizing ______, and ______ is abusing their power" What's the difference?
 
The community has been polarized into two main groups of "screw it, burn it to hell" and people trying to maintain the current system even if it's dangling unevenly in the air. It's a spectrum, I'm lying close to the middle, as usual, but members within the community are now . . . being snarky at each other, to put it mildly
They're not just asking "why was my post deleted?", if it was just that, it would have been fine
 
Frankly, people seem to be more interested in stirring the pot and pointing fingers over being constructive.
 
Part of the screw-it philosophy I guess. Both sides have their pros and cons.
 
user245382
Maybe when the people come back after their suspensions, they'll ask "why was I suspended", and then everything will be fine?
 
Because that has always ended up in a jolly constructive discussion
Even Disney princesses can't get that conversation going smoothly
 
user245382
9:47 PM
If asking "why was my post deleted?" is fine, then that should also be fine, I would think
 
Where is Derpy when you need references
 
user245382
But my only point in response to your "rant " of "Something has changed.", is that yeah, something definitely has changed.
 
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man It boils down to manners, if I haven't been clear. People are not being level-headed about it, and it ends up upsetting everyone, merely adding to suspicions and fears.
 
Rob
Some people stomp their feet and walk out. When they come back to see that they didn't get their way, that everyone and everything was magic-wanded they stomp their feet again, and again. Then they get the boot, and come back; to see if this things will be different.
 
user245382
@M.A.R. I agree. People are definitely not being level-headed about it. Including mods and staff members.
 
9:52 PM
Can confirm. Does this not reinforce my point that asking "why was my post about my post about my post about my post being deleted was deleted" does not help anything?
 
sigh
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man It will/was made clear to the OP
 
Putting a digital level on @Journey's head
 
I'll post something general once I work out the right way to say it. and its something that ought to be obvious and commonsensical, yet people think its fine to do
 
user245382
@M.A.R. I would think that whether or not it helps would depend on whether or not someone finally admits fault instead of doubling-down.
 
user245382
"admits fault" might not be the right phrase
 
9:55 PM
In fact, we probably need to answer first whether adding vitriol is a good thing or a bad thing.
 
@M.A.R. Well - there's been folks encouraging hostility to us :/
 
@JourneymanGeek En garde monsieur
 
I have been the past few weeks
 
user245382
but just "accepts responsibility" and is willing to work toward a solution. If a cycle of people asking and then having their question deleted is causing vitriol, then NOT deleting would certainly stop that cycle
 
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man and yet
if something is not right, we need to act
and honestly - everyone keeps telling us what to do, yet seem unwilling to realise their own roles in this
 
user245382
9:57 PM
better to act right, or not at all.
 
Oy.
 
You're saying we're not right
when we're doing what we can, in good faith
 
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man Again, if it was merely "asking and then having their question deleted", it probably wouldn't have been a big deal even in fairly large number of complaints.
 
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man so.
 
9:58 PM
Can y'all stop being backseat moderators for a little bit please? There's stuff you and I don't see, and stuff that's been deleted, and larger context at play. Seriously.
 
We don't discuss suspensions
 
user245382
I'm saying "make sure you are right". And what "right" means depends on the community
 
We all saw when someone discussed suspensions
 
But it's not. The accusations thrown around, the bonds (online and virtual, but still) being broken.
 
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man you arn't the community though
neither are just the loudest voices
 
user245382
9:59 PM
I'm not saying I am
 
People are just being expectant, combative and I dare say mean to each other.
 
As I told someone else, I'm not really going to get myself told/bullied into how to moderate. Neither are any of us
 
@JourneymanGeek Make me a sandwich
 
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