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10:00 PM
In fact, wait. What was that about tuna and cheese?
Yeah, that's how it usually goes. People in position of power do what they want and can't be told anything by anyone.
@M.A.R. Tuna melt. They're awesome.
The Tavern is not a free for all where you can spout bitter comments about anything and everything.
A perfect example
@Mithical Wait, really? Damn, that's what I've been using it as. :/
10:04 PM
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man Well I simply don't think that's a fair assessment, and I guess we have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings. A community is truly dead when it has a big hole in the middle, and people are burning a hole right at the city center, if that makes any sense.
I'm admittedly very biased. I've been kicked around by people in positions of authority my whole life, it seems like. No hard feelings
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man don't kick them first then
Rob I don't know ancient Egyptian, is that an emoji or three?
There is a system of moderation on these sites and there always has been. Not everything flies here - in the Tavern, on Meta, or the SE network at large. That is part of being a community here. It has nothing to do with people liking to abuse power or anything of the sort. It has everything to do with people trying to put out a trash fire that people keep pouring gasoline onto.
10:07 PM
It's a spurnip.
@JourneymanGeek A person in power should be able to take a kick or two.
@JourneymanGeek Can you see how accusing me of "kicking first" isn't helpful?
If a child, much smaller and weaker than me, hits me, I'm not going to drop them like a brick.
I've said this several times over the past day or two and I'll say it again. Trying to keep a dumpster fire burning while other people are trying to put it out is not going to endear you to the people trying to put it out.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica at some point though ankles will be bitten
10:09 PM
Better put those little kids in their place before things start escalating?
@JourneymanGeek Oh sure, I'm talking about in general, not when I push your buttons. :P
@TheforestofReinstateMonica right.
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man Better realize that, as adults, we have power over those kids and shouldn't abuse that power just because they misbehave. Something most authorities don't realize.
Are we saying the people who make trouble are children?
If you're here to pour fuel on the fire, well then... frankly: get out. We don't need more things burning right now. If you're here to help put it out, then great! That's awesome. At the very least, don't actively interfere with the people putting it out.
10:11 PM
@JourneymanGeek I'm saying the people who make trouble have no more power over the authorities than children do over the much larger, stronger adults.
So when the authorities react with full force, it's a problem.
Just as an adult knocking the wind out of a child for hitting them is a problem.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica and there's no reason we need to accommodate them for people who cause no trouble to suffer
@TheforestofReinstateMonica If you're punching a fireman who's trying to put out a fire, you're going to get firmly knocked aside.
@JourneymanGeek I'm not referring to trolls, but those who are a thorn in the side of those in power.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica Yes, this is part of that "kicking around". People with power using their power against people who are powerless. It's not always unwarranted, and sometimes necessary. It's not always bad. But sometimes it is. And when it is, it hurts worse because there's nothing you can do about it, and also because it's seen as "justified".
@Mithical And then locked up in prison for harming an authority figure as an act of revenge. There's a difference between getting someone out of the way using the minimum amount of force necessary, and going out of your way to silence someone who is doing something you dislike because you have the power to do so and they don't have the power to protect themselves.
10:14 PM
I would think the best thing to do in these situations is to be transparent and open to criticism
@TheforestofReinstateMonica every troll thinks that they are a brave rebel.
@JourneymanGeek Does every mod think they are a courageous knight?
@JourneymanGeek Then they aren't the trolls I know. Real trolls know they're trolls.
Real trolls, the ones who can single-handedly bring down a community for a week just by posting a couple of times, don't think they're rebels. They know they're trolls and they enjoy what they do. They want nothing more than to bathe in drama, not overthrow some power.
10:16 PM
6 mins ago, by Mithical
If you're here to pour fuel on the fire, well then... frankly: get out. We don't need more things burning right now. If you're here to help put it out, then great! That's awesome. At the very least, don't actively interfere with the people putting it out.
@Mithical You're a room owner. If you think people are here to make trouble, kick them out. Don't be vague
@Mithical I'm not sure what the original conversation was. I'm assuming it was about the whole staff drama, not mod drama? Mods are trying to put out the fire and I have no problem with that.
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man I'm pretty sure I did that already. I'm not in a rush to use tools when I can use words.
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man well -the accusations of abuse of power are not nice
@TheforestofReinstateMonica There are lots of people who do have a problem with that, apparently.
10:18 PM
@Mithical tl;dr?
Are mods starting to side with SE staff now or something?
People have no faith that the moderators of the site are able to act impartially.
@Rob Uh, I Googled that and I have no idea what it means. It rendered wrong in my computer anyway
@Mithical "The site"? On all the SE sites I'm on at least, they're fairly impartial.
I'm referring to here on MSE.
Well this is not going in circles.
@JourneymanGeek Nobody is accusing you of anything. If you ever thought that I accused you of anything, I apologize, it was not my intent
I have a sleep train to catch. Night all \o
Are you the one for whom things are Egyptian, some of the time? Never heard that term before here, in North America.
@Rob No I meant hieroglyphs
10:23 PM
I think there's a browser plug-in to display emojis. Anyways, good night.
@Mithical when impartially means "the way they expect them to" ._.
No, impartially means without an agenda.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica I have an agenda - I want MSE to be healthy and constructive.
Not like MSE is going to be around much longer though. :/
10:27 PM
There's no indication of that
but the continued drama means it makes it easier to sideline.
I was under the impression that they were moving everything off of Meta in the coming year.
Or did I just dream up that blog post? (Oh I hope I did)
Hence saying sideline
and yet, when there's issues with the survey, folks brought it up on meta
Yeah I don't think they'll literally delete it, but I think that's effectively what will happen.
It will no longer be listed, nothing on it will be featured, etc.
10:30 PM
They can't really kill meta as long as it serves it core purpose
and well its core purpose isn't just being a soap box
But they're moving its core purpose to a medium that they can more easily control.
I.e. one where feedback is next to non-existent.
I'm not especially enthusiastic about the way things are going in that direction either. But that doesn't mean give up on MSE as a lost cause and allow it to fall to pieces.
Nor am I
Never said you should.
ANd we're trying to moderate so that things don't fall to pieces
10:33 PM
Is that what some people are having a problem with?
What is the agenda that they are accusing you of having?
Oh, you know, the usual... censorship on behalf of the company, abuse of power to silence users you don't like, holding grudges and blowing things up out of proportion to act on those grudges...
Well I'm certainly biased here so I won't comment on that.
The best way to counter the perception of having an agenda is transparency
10:38 PM
Suspensions and transparency are not topics that go hand in hand.
I agree there. I've had my share of frustration with silence and lack of transparency here.
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man And yet that's at odds with respecting privacy
@Mithical Transparency with the user being suspended, though, should.
Same if the user is fine with others discussing the reasons for suspension.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica that rarely ends well
I mean, I was suspended for a month a while back, and when I appealed, I got a response that I had already asked on MSE about my suspension (how could I if I was already suspended?), and that they therefore wouldn't respond to me. So, transparency is not always their strong suite.
I would have complained more but that's when I realized this was a common problem and my case was not unique. This was right around the time when Monica was attacked.
10:40 PM
"So honoured senator, when did you stop beating your wife?"
Domestic abuse is not a topic to take lightly or in a joking fashion. Thanks for refraining.
Its ok, I'm single.
Pretty much though stuff like...
@TheforestofReinstateMonica this
is designed to undermine trust in authority.
so... kindly put a sock on it
@JourneymanGeek I didn't design this or make it up.
I was responding to @House-'ReinstateMonica'-man.
I asked nicely.
I'm not even talking about suspensions. I'm talking more about the three recently-deleted posts, including mine. It's hard to be transparent when the thing is completely removed
10:43 PM
and then the archive about it is also removed
@JourneymanGeek An important part of transparency is to allow a user to explain themselves. I was merely trying to explain myself and you kicked me for it. I don't appreciate that.
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man so...
contact us link
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man Deleted posts?
@TheforestofReinstateMonica I asked.. nicely...
10:45 PM
@JourneymanGeek You said "put a sock on it". That doesn't really seem very nice to me.
But if you don't want me to discuss my own suspensions, just say so and I won't, ok?
This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; This isn't going anywhere constructive. Let's take two minutes to cool off.
Oh god that countdown hurts my browser.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica Robert Harvey's suggestion, my question asking about suggestions to the CoC being against the rules, and a third question closely related to that.
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man Ah... yeah I read about that.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica they really added some zazz to the timer
10:49 PM
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man pretty much - I can't discuss one without discussing all 3, and I'm not. If you have a problem with a moderator decision, you can use the contact us link to complain about me
But anyway yeah, I think I understand why you're upset now. It's been demonstrated nicely.
If you can't discuss it, then I guess things won't get any better, which is sad.
That was my one idea to help make things better
People having a bit of faith would be nice, instead of automatically assuming ulterior motives for actions such as deleting posts...
11:11 PM
@Mithical Extraordinary actions require extraordinary amounts of faith
11:49 PM
(I had Smokey autoflagging enabled during my trip)
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Not... any... more...
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