« first day (3414 days earlier)      last day (293 days later) » 

12:02 AM
> ask a question that gets no flags within a week of being posted
uhhhh
 
that seems an easy hat
 
12:18 AM
@Mithical Since close votes are counted internally as flags, do those count as flags for that purpose?
 
I rather suspect it's supposed to be comments or answers, not flags.
 
Rob
12:45 AM
Got a couple of hats already.
I thought they were supposed to show up in chat too.
 
1:10 AM
@House-'ReinstateMonica'-man swept under the rug, for your pleasure ;p
 
Rob
Filed.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:49 AM
roar
Am I being too nitpicky or are these legitimate concerns?
@DirkBruere, I disagree with this sentiment. While I understand the pedagogical value of not force-feeding the OP the answer, this results in your answer not being useful without its context. Also, "they should not be allowed close to any electronic instrument" reads a bit arrogant and insulting to me. — bwDraco 5 mins ago
 
Definitely insulting. Also, please keep that capacitor far away from me.
 
@bwDraco yes
More importantly - some arguements are just not worth having.
 
Oh, I read that as 0.1F. Still, I just say no to charged capacitors.
 
meh, the magic smoke does not care about your emotions.
The instructions are there for a reason
 
2:58 AM
That was annoying
Speaking of instructions or the lack of it...
@bwDraco so...
my dad once plugged my multimeter into the mains
blew out the screen. And shockingly nothing else. No pun intended.
 
lol
 
I've also gotten shocked opening up a power supply
proper respect for fire and electricity is essential for working on it.,
Even if you're that crazy unibrow dude.
 
I've blown the microammeter function on my DMM by connecting it to a high-voltage photoflash capacitor – but everything else works on it.
 
YOU FAILED TO RESPECT THE AWESOME POWER OF THE MAGIC SMOKE!
 
@JourneymanGeek Yes to what? Both?
 
3:01 AM
Yes
The point being, its not really an arguement worth having in context
there's better more pedagogical answers
 
I felt it was worth trying to steer the user in the right direction (given the user's rep) but had no plans to argue it if the user objected.
 
Sometimes people are grumpy
 
user310756
3:28 AM
fwiw. there's a few people in here who followed our foal's life from her birth. She died this week. Suddenly and tragically. @rene And to the others who have followed her. pets.stackexchange.com/questions/26675/… I'll have to pop a pic in here an on the post for her.. if it's ok I can post a video of her in here.
 
user310756
@Rob hi
 
user310756
Samuel Liew was at my house when we had Dyani put to sleep - he happened to be visiting for lunch - it was hectic to say the least. He was very patient.
 
... damn
 
user310756
ikr
 
I'm so sorry to hear that
 
user310756
3:31 AM
 
user310756
@JourneymanGeek ty. Any animal lover can relate. It doesn't matter what the species. It's like losing a family member.
 
user310756
one more one box please.
 
I'd think folks would be fine with it
 
@Nobody I'm sorry for your loss :(
 
user310756
@curious thanks. It's appreciated
 
user310756
3:34 AM
One of the last videos of her youtube.com/…
 
user310756
and I'm trying to upload a pic of her being goofey and silly.
 
user310756
she was cute
 
user310756
oh wrong pic!
 
user310756
 
6:02 AM
Where’s the knitting now?
On winter bash
 
is there a compilation meta post with a list of feature requests or bug reports about unsolved privacy issues?
 
Probably not.
 
I'm not even sure there's a common tag, which would be a better way to do it
 
hmm I suppose it would be easier to search for "[privacy-issue] -[status-completed]" or something
 
6:11 AM
plausibly, assuming things are appropriately tagged
Despite my legendary hatred of tags, that feels like a great use of em :D
 
@Nobody I'm so sorry.
 
which is why I kinda thought there might be a curated compilation post because, you know, tags aren't perfect
 
@Nobody :,(
 
also idk how to feel about people answering with closed source answers (download this exe) when it's possible to post an open-source inspectable code answer, and whether it should be something to strive for and publicly encourage
that's also part of the privacy and general safety concern
 
6:38 AM
is there a big meta post describing the difference between user interactions on StackOverflow and other, smaller SE sites?
I'd like to read what SO-mains think about it all compared with SE-mains' thoughts
 
@user1306322 I don't recall one
 
I feel like a big part of "we're doing good enough" and forgetting the human mentality comes from using SO rather than SE sites and I'd like to confirm or disprove these and other assumptions
and I've already had enough talks in this room, not strictly about this but on topics which are probably heavily influenced by that, so I'd rather read something in a meta post and comments format
if someone has any links to discussions like that, please ping me with them
it could be that a cure for being mentally strained by SO duties is to take a vacation from SO and go use SE sites for a couple months instead
but in a less reviewer/moderator capacity and more simple readership and posting, to avoid the risk of infecting them with SO-oriented approach of moderation
coz I feel like the 2 groups of users don't intersect much in their experience of using both sites and might have trouble understanding each other's mentality and experiences
 
7:01 AM
6 messages moved to Chimney
 
7:48 AM
@Nobody :'(
 
8:37 AM
Good morning!
 
I contacted support and didnt get a name on who I was talking with. Is that standard procedure?
 
Pretty sure it is, yeah.
 
I see that Robert's ban was anonymous as well. "Meta Stack Exchange Moderation Team"
 
That's standard too. Moderator messages are anonymous because people would target moderators.
That's why you can't have nice things :P
273
Q: Make moderator messages anonymous

meagarCurrently, when a moderator messages a user, the user sees which moderator is messaging them. This includes when a moderator issues a timed suspension. Generally, I have no problem with this. Sometimes a user needs to be gently reminded to be nicer in comments, or to disclose when they're advert...

 
@Tinkeringbell had been. A lot of mods had been getting targeted abuse for years prior to this change
 
8:45 AM
@Magisch And people still do, to an extent... I got a random Twitter DM request once that wasn't exactly all roses and sunshine.
 
@Magisch Oh, I have a few choice ones too
 
I mean, I'm a nobody user and got some from time to time. Mods are bound to get a lot
 
Eh, depends on what you'd call a lot ;)
 
So basically mods are accountable only to other mods. Unless they happen to choose to explain their actions in public. Does the same hold true for non volunteer mods?
 
@Fermiparadox practically there's no difference between an elected, pro tem and appointed mod
 
8:49 AM
@Tinkeringbell ye is an actual problem.
 
all mods are volunteers
 
Who are non volunteer mods?
 
non volunteer mods are employees
 
@Tinkeringbell "nice things" like mod accountability? :P
 
And we're all volunteers.
 
8:49 AM
some are addicts though ;)
 
@Fermiparadox Well, names on mod-messages.
 
@Fermiparadox we don't have any formal accountability for mods. They're elected for life, most of their actions are default private and they cannot be recalled
that's how its been ever since mods existed, though
 
@Magisch They can be recalled... I've seen it happen at least twice, maybe even thrice.
 
@Tinkeringbell not by users
 
We're still accountable, we sign a moderator agreement, and we're not allowed to break that or the Code of Conduct.
 
8:51 AM
You're accountable to other mods and stack exchange, yeah
but the electorate has no lever besides making a fuss on meta.
 
@Magisch pretty much that is one of the things that in theory assures our independance
 
I'm not arguing against it
modding is thankless work bound to create enemies
 
@Magisch Users should use Contact Us. I do believe that there is a post out there on how to handle moderators that are out of line, the old one from before Monica's demodding... That one, IIRC, does mention complaints from users.
 
@Tinkeringbell to whom? Who is the judge?
 
8:52 AM
Yup
@Fermiparadox the CM team
 
@JourneymanGeek Or SE... I don't know if it's necessarily CMs
 
@Tinkeringbell What I meant by that is users themselves don't have any leverage in the process or any decision making power. Unless SE or a majority of the other site mods agree, even a thousand upset users can't forcibly unseat a mod. Not that it usually ever comes to that or has come to that, but technically speaking
@JourneymanGeek Or anyone above them, which is I understand what caused the monica situation to start.
 
@Magisch or re-seat for that matter :P
 
@ErikReinstateMonicA That's not the one I was thinking about though...
 
@Fermiparadox for that, current mods also have a veto
 
8:55 AM
@JourneymanGeek CM = community management ?
 
@Fermiparadox community manager team
though there's also a mod-run process for recalls
 
by its nature mod work involves a lot of things where you don't look like the hero
 
and reseating
 
in part because we afford users a higher expectation of privacy. E.g when someone gets banned for socking, there's not a public case page detailing why they've been socking, in their interest
the information asymmetry would make it easy to cast aspersions on a mod that they can't refute without violating someone's privacy, which is a catch 22
the whole system is kinda based on trusting the mods to be sensible. If you can't do that, being on a SE site is a pointless endeavour
 
@Magisch nearly every case where we suspend someone never ends well when information is shared
 
8:58 AM
of course it doesn't, because that's usually just drama mongering
 
@JourneymanGeek does nothing good ever come out of it?
 
Oh.. no
 
wikipedia for instance is the other end of that spectrum and it has clear and present drawbacks. Getting a clean break after making some mistakes is virtually impossible
 
Nope.
 
user206222
Stack's moderation policies rely on a community that willfully closes down discussions about suspensions without the moderators' engagement. Every suspension can be construed poorly, unless someone did something particularly egregious (and even then...)
 
8:59 AM
Well Indirectly I'm a mod cause someone did that
but its arguable whether that was a good thing or not ;)
@Aza the community is wee bit... fragmented at the moment
 
@Aza Technically, if the community fails to do so, we can. And we probably should.
 
the whole theory of moderation is based on that. The primary objective is to minimize project disruption, which means suspensions e.g warnings are only given out when necessary and with the (hopeful) expectation that people recover and return to being constructive members of a community
that only works when their dirty laundry isn't freely aired
 
(and in an environment that doesn't encourage airing dirty laundry yourself)
 
user206222
@Tinkeringbell Yeah, I agree. There's just not a good way to do it with good optics, at that point.
 
and because of that principle mods are at an inherent disadvantage of perception. Their detractors can speculate all they want and the mods can't directly contradict it lest they jeopardize the goal of the actions
 
user206222
9:01 AM
Which like... I guess a part of moderation is being willing to sacrifice your reputation in the community to protect the community.
 
@Aza in a healthy community, its normally not needed.
 
We seem to be doing that quite well lately.
sigh.
 
user206222
@JourneymanGeek also true
 
Can we talk about happier stuff? :)
 
@Magisch What about cases where a user says " i m ok with sharing related private details"?
 
9:02 AM
I've never seen a case like that where it ended anything but poorly for everyone involved
 
@Tinkeringbell Sometimes unhappy staff make this world a better place.
 
@Fermiparadox that's not always mean that its necessary or healthy
 
and I used to read past meta discussions for fun, and have been through years of meta drama backlog
 
@Fermiparadox no one should hate their job
 
user206222
Do you play video games, @Tinkeringbell?
 
9:03 AM
@JourneymanGeek Understatement of the day?
 
@Mithical I was british once
 
@JourneymanGeek but then you took an arrow to the knee?
 
@JourneymanGeek reminds me of the british friend of my parents who helped them move this weekend, I was also there
 
@Gimby I dropped out, had panic attacks, might have gotten close to the edge...
then I got better ;p
 
yikes
 
9:04 AM
after disassembling and laborously navigating a giant piece of furniture through 3 very small hallways he went, sweating and obviously exerted "that was a bit of a bother"
 
@Gimby Its the past. I got better, and these things give you perspective ;)
Like the wheelchair psychopath story @M.A.R. is rather sick of
 
9:18 AM
@Aza Very few. I mostly play Stardew Valley lately.
(Got snagged away for coffee, sorry for the late reply)
 
@Tinkeringbell me too, got addicted again since the 1.4 update. For the first time ever I managed to complete the community center in the first year, that was a challenge I had set for myself.
 
@Gimby Oh, that's not so hard to do XD Haven't played the 1.4 update yet, but I read the wallpaper trick no longer works.
 
new path of exile league is end of the week
the hype is strong
 
It isn't too hard but there is a large luck component. Need to get a red cabbage from the traveling merchant.
 
user206222
@Tinkeringbell Ooo. Have you played around in the new update, recently? I'm curious how it is, I haven't heard much about it
 
9:27 AM
@Aza Not yet. I have the game both on PC and Switch, and play mostly on Switch (which hasn't had the update yet). I've read the release notes though, it's supposed to be good, it adds a lot of things that I like :)
It also fixes a few bugs I used to happily exploit :|
 
I could never really get into stardew valley myself. Every time I'm in the mood for that I get stuck in another minecraft modpack that demands my cube fortress to be built
 
@Tinkeringbell Prismatic shards drop more easily though, you don't really need the exploit anymore ;)
 
user206222
Makes sense, it's super recent. I'm holding off until my partner has time and we can play together.
 
user206222
What exploits were fixed?
 
@Gimby Oh, that sounds good. Because I'm two years in on the switch and haven't seen one yet!
 
9:29 AM
The biggest exploit fixed is the mushroom floor in the mines, its now randomised so you can't predict anymore where it is going to be on subsequent days.
 
@Aza The one where you could use the green wallpaper to get the Galaxy Sword, and the one where you could leave the bathhouse with your health/energy still regenerating are the most important ones I know about.
@Aza Playing together is fun, I did that once... lots of chaos too though! :D
 
user206222
@Tinkeringbell Whaaaaat!? Oh jeez, I have been playing without these Sneaky Tricks. No idea you could do both of those.
 
@Aza I... am not really known for playing games fairly :P
 
1.4 is really good for multiplayer, you can have separate finances which opens the door for having races.
 
Oh, separate finances sounds great... I played with someone that would spend every penny I earned! :P
 
user206222
9:31 AM
Yeah, I get that. My partner and I both hyper-optimize, which leads to some funny efficiency stuff.
 
There is also a new four corners map type so you can easily subdivide the land
 
user206222
If we're good about money in-game, that must mean we'll be good about money in real-life, right? Right?? ;)
 
Are we allowed to discuss our disagreement with Support responses on Meta?
 
@Aza I save everything both in game and real life..
@Fermiparadox Depends on what you're expecting... you basically went as high as you could go, so if it's still declined, it's no use bringing it to Meta.
Regular users or mods can't do anything
 
@JourneymanGeek hey, I'm not sick of it, it's more like Stockholm or some European city syndrome
 
9:34 AM
So I'd say the answer is no.
 
Oslo's razor
 
@Gimby I saw that, it looks nice :)
 
user206222
@Tinkeringbell Yeahhhh, understandable and same
 
Afternoon folks
 
I guess I should fire up the game on PC soon and just try it out ;)
@M.A.R. Morning!
 
9:35 AM
@Tinkeringbell you should, it'll probably take months before the Switch version gets updated.
 
A Monday morning nonetheless
 
@Gimby I know... I can wait patiently though :P
I do know that if I start a game on PC now, I will end up abandoning the save file on the Switch.
 
It's fun to restart with the new update anyway.
 
Yeah, that's probably true... but my current save file has a fully operational greenhouse, iridium sprinklers and a lot of friendships :|
 
user206222
those friendships take so much work :(
 
9:38 AM
I'm like this close to finally actually 'finishing' the game XD
 
user206222
why can't friendship be easy, ugh
 
@Aza I usually save up all the mail with requests I get throughout year one, then build the greenhouse, dump fruit trees in that... then spend two days a week in year two giving everyone fruit XD
 
user206222
Hahaha yeahhhh
 
user206222
I actually wrote out a scheduled calendar to get everyone their S-tier gifts, with the exception of a couple people whose gifts were just... too obscure
 
user206222
would not recommend, did not go substantively faster
 
9:39 AM
Together with finishing those requests and the two hearts you get when finishing the community building (don't finish the message board before you're ready to start giving gifts each week)... it goes quite rapidly.
 
user206222
you for sure have the right idea
 
XD
I read the wiki pages a lot to figure out how to play it fastest
 
@Tinkeringbell I expect an explanation on why a term being used for the past a decade is considered "very inflammatory, and unnecessarily so" today. I don't expect the post being reinstated. I expect a rational explanation.
Is the above allowed to discuss on Meta?
 
user206222
Maaaakes sense, our stubbornness prevented us from trying to look up strategy ;)
 
@Aza where's the fun in that? ;p
 
9:42 AM
@Aza In the 1.4 update a new (late game) path has been added to get friendship, you don't necessarily need to go full ham with gifting.
 
@Fermiparadox No.
 
Why not? :)
 
It's the typical rules lawyering we're trying to get rid of.
 
user206222
@Gimby Oh whaaaat, what is it??
 
I doubt they were referring to that single word when saying stuff was very inflammatory and unnecessarily so.
 
9:43 AM
@Aza Oi, I'm trying not to spoil the biggest new feature in the game
 
@Gimby Oh, how does that work?
 
For many 2019 was a great year. This question is POB in my opinion. — Mari-Lou A 23 mins ago
 
(I'm okay with spoilers if everyone else is :) )
 
Yabbut when you go to a site to celebrate the year you celebrate your time on that site @Mari
 
@Fermiparadox You will not get a rational explanation. I demanded one about my deleted answer and I was accused of "sea-lioning" by the moderators.
 
9:44 AM
@Tinkeringbell When is a discussion on Meta about Support considered rules lawyering and when is it not?
 
user206222
That question makes me sad. It's not actually asking for that change, it's just trying to remind people that things are shit.
 
@Aza well, they are a little
 
That is very true.
 
user206222
Reminding people they're supposed to be upset... eh.
 
Speaking of which @JourneymanGeek, my Contact Form submission is now 3 weeks old, and still no answer of any sort.
 
user206222
9:45 AM
@Gimby If it's spoilers, I'll figure it out!!
 
@Aza It's... also the most reasonable version of such a question we can have... it doesn't link to deleted stuff XD
 
Discussing meta posts, airing disagreements and even venting a little are/should be allowed, and I do it all the time. It gets a bit hairy with finger pointing though.
 
@Aza fine, the update adds a cinema. It gives two options to give large boosts to friendship.
 
@Aza Well, to some of us, having a winter bash this year feels like a slap in the face.
2
 
I think the status-declined tag makes it clear enough that it's not a good suggestion ;)
 
9:47 AM
The very least they could do is have th basic decency not to add insult to injury by calling it a "great" year.
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica A year is more than the past two months though.
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica It wasn't going too bad
 
@Tinkeringbell And the problems are more than two months old too.
 
user206222
So... don't have Winter Bash... because there's not enough joy going around? Idk, that seems weird to me. But I get that it's mostly a question of feeling, so [shrug]
 
9:48 AM
]@terdon-stopharmingMonica they're years old if you want to look it that way
 
This is the year of the licensing and of everything else.
 
@Aza there's the hat hating option
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica Perhaps, but I heard no-one complaining back in '18 ....
OR '17
 
user206222
@JourneymanGeek that, too
 
user206222
@Gimby I will look into this! Thank you for the pointer :)
 
9:48 AM
@JourneymanGeek there comes the wheelchair story again . . .
 
@Tinkeringbell Yes, it came to a head in 19 with the deadly combination of licensing and everything else.
 
I hate hats. I always start with a disadvantage because winter bash starts when I'm asleep, and I have to work the next day!
 
I quite honestly feel that having a winter bash as though everything is fine is fundamentally wrong. I won't post about it and I didn't try to keep my site out of it, but I don't like it.
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica Eh. I'm on the fence about all of it, so I don't mind as much.
 
Sure, everyone will have their own feelings about it. But I do see where Glorfindel is coming from when he objected to calling '19 a great year.
 
9:50 AM
Feeling a rush of nostalgia 2016, remembering people racing for the top of the then-new (?) leaderboards
 
It's the worst year SE has ever had.
 
6 mins ago, by M.A.R.
That is very true.
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica It's... a bit of a difference in how you think about it... "as though everything is fine" vs. "like every other year". The latter doesn't have to imply a thought of everything being fine.
 
@Tinkeringbell Well, both options feel very wrong :)
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica or just see it as standard PR boilerplate.
 
9:52 AM
@terdon-stopharmingMonica Meh, I'm okay with the latter. There's nothing better for regular users to do with regards to current messes...
 
Yes, I know you and JMG are trying to get back to normalcy. I don't want to, so that's also part of it.
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica a lot of folks don't
But that's the path I see to winning
 
@JourneymanGeek I know.
 
user310756
@rene thanks
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica Not back to. Chicks don't go back in eggs.
 
9:53 AM
There's a reason they didn't invest in changing the winter-bash theme though. It feels like an afterthought in the wake of all that's going on. Of course they want to just get everyone forgetting about what happened, so keeping stuff like this going as usual is a good move
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica on the other hand, I know your heart's in the right place, and I get the unhappiness
 
user310756
@Mithical :'( so sad hey
 
@JourneymanGeek I know you do. I fundamentally disagree though. That's not "winning". Well, maybe for the SE bigwigs.
 
But as far as I'm concerned, there's only one way to go, and that's forward.
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica Only that if they want to kill meta, so saving meta means winning
 
9:54 AM
@Tinkeringbell Or away from SE.
 
@ErikReinstateMonicA Probably also that balpha usually did these and he no longer works for SE... that's what the comments say, at least.
 
user310756
cc @Magisch ^^ so sad
 
user206222
Pushing back against a return to normalcy is iffy, if healing is grouped in as a part of that 'normal.'
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica We'll see. For now, my path is here.
 
@Tinkeringbell Oh sure. Everyone can make their own choice.
 
9:55 AM
@Aza I can't tell people what to think.
I do my thing, and be supportive. And maybe folks realise its not that dark
 
user206222
@JourneymanGeek I... didn't say you could.
 
Well - I'm saying I'm in a situation of respectful disagreement on the best way to deal with the situation in some cases.
 
@terdon-stopharmingMonica There will be a time when I'll try to convince people to change their mind ;) But doing so now would be premature. As long as you're not making a fuss for the sake of drama... it's okay :)
 
But from where I am, working towards some semblance of normalcy is a desired outcome
 
@JourneymanGeek I respectfully disagree. -- Doing @rene's job
 
9:56 AM
But the point where things actually get to normal is some distance away, and a lot of it is not in my hands.
 
JAD
@Aza I guess many people consider "normal" with Monica reinstated and such.
 
@Tinkeringbell I am not planning on making a fuss, no. I just don't see any way back to normalcy while the company insists on acting unethically with respect to licensing and pillorying users in the press. The more those are ignored, the less I, personally, want to be associated with this network.
3
It's just that addictions are hard to shake...
 
@JAD that's an outcome that I hope to see in some fashion but...
out of my hands
 
user206222
I mean, Monica's suing Stack Exchange. She's not going to be reinstated, one way or another.
 
user206222
There is absolutely no world in which SE appoints her, they're going to court.
 
9:58 AM
@Aza Letting it get that far was a mistake
and I was thinking more the... ill considered statements on the register and elsewhere
 
user206222
So it's better to rip the bandage off and accept that reappointment is... just not gonna happen.
 
But those are things I have no agency over
 
reappointment is the least of it
 
JAD
@Aza and with that, going back to normal is hard for many. Going forward to a new normal, maybe.
 
@Aza the damage to reputation is a bigger thing IMO
 
user206222
9:59 AM
@JourneymanGeek Probably, but it does mean the question is not much of Meta's business, overall.
 
user206222
@JAD Forward to a new normal is a reasonable goal.
 
The company standing by its decision to make this public and harm one of their users in real life is what I cannot get over.
5
 

« first day (3414 days earlier)      last day (293 days later) »