Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

10:00 AM

@Aza and yet, that basically is most of meta and a good chunk of what we deal with.

JAD

@Aza hard to attain though, with so many different definitions of normal.

Fermi paradox

@Tinkeringbell you are right. Actually your comment makes a lot of sense now that i think of it. It reminded me of how me met and our interesting discussion about humans, and tricks humans do to each other to play and establish dominance. Btw, you weren't a mod back then. I didn't congratulate you. Congratulations :) Well deserved.

Journeyman Geek

Healing helps us deal with some of the anger, from folks who ought to be working with us.

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Yeah, talking to the press was a mistake... but fixing that is not going to happen overnight.

Fermi paradox

Wrong link, i meant this.

terdon - stop harming Monica

10:01 AM

The only way forward I can see is for the community to distance itself from SE as much as possible. We don't even pretend we're working together, we just accept that they have final say over everything, let them do whatever crap they want to do since we can't stop them anyway and then just do our best to pretend the company doesn't exist.

3

user206222

A new normal isn't going to be attainable until people start asking, "given all this, what would we like the network to be now?"

user206222

People aren't at that stage. A lot of people are holding onto a resentment that clouds that question. No judgement, there are a lot of reasons to feel resentful.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Aza That's easy: I'd like to see it dissociated from this company.

2

user206222

But people will need to set that aside eventually.

Journeyman Geek

@Aza and people keep fanning it for its own sake.

user206222

10:02 AM

@JourneymanGeek yes, this is also true. resentment begets its own company

Journeyman Geek

ANd when there's a normal, or a new normal, I'd like there to be a meta left

@Aza well, and drama feeds itself

user206222

@terdon-stopharmingMonica You can say "that's easy," but you and I both know that's not an attainable end-point.

Journeyman Geek

@terdon-stopharmingMonica practically - there's a few key things that the company still provides, platform aside

user206222

The company owns Stack Exchange. Barring the dissolution of the Capitalist State...

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Aza No, I mean it's easy for me to answer the question of what I'd like the network to be. I am well aware that it cannot happen, which is precisely why I have no hope left that anything good can really be salvaged.

@JourneymanGeek really?

Hitodama

10:04 AM

that avatar is somehow a "tradition". I don't think every user using it actually believe in a reinstantiation process - but it was the first one made about the issue and now everyone is using it.
One could try and do a second avatar that just say something like "Fix Monica Reputation", but I don't think many would switch out.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Aza Not the data. It's perfectly feasible to have another system and bring in much of the existing SE.

Journeyman Geek

@terdon-stopharmingMonica well - even if it sometimes falls flat, and is understaffed, the fact that there's a commercial organisation of sorts behind SE provided some of the framework we have

Magisch

@Aza I mean, they don't own the content

Journeyman Geek

There's something to be said for a certain sense of direction as we had, and having resources to build and maintain the communities

terdon - stop harming Monica

@JourneymanGeek Oh, in the past, the company has provided loads of things!

Magisch

10:05 AM

technically there's nothing stopping an enterprising group of people from just taking all the content and hosting it themselves, outside of having to attribute it, which is entirely doable

user206222

This is the baffling bit to me. You definitely have a hope for something. If you have no hope left that anything good can be salvaged, then what are you fighting for, by being here?

terdon - stop harming Monica

I don't see how they provide anything useful apart from infrastructure today.

Journeyman Geek

@Aza you can check out, but you can't really leave.

Unless you can grab your whole community and go

and even then, something's missing

Magisch

@Aza to my mind, keeping the communities you care about going long enough until something else emerges for them to move over to. At least that's the sentiment I heard from many people

user206222

@Magisch If that's the goal, then I think a lot of people pushing for this need to set down their resentment and frustration, in order to have a serious conversation about how to achieve that.

terdon - stop harming Monica

10:07 AM

@Aza Nothing. I have put down two of my three diamonds, I'm only staying on for my third because... I'm not even sure. A sense of morbid curiosity is part of it. Addiction is another. And I still love the community, I'm not ready to completely abandon it. But I have no hope that the relation with the company will improve.

Journeyman Geek

@Aza and that needs something to change

terdon - stop harming Monica

And I'm getting increasingly more involved in one of the projects to build an alternative to SE.

Journeyman Geek

On both sides

but I can't really influence the company directly

Magisch

@Aza You and I both know that we're in the middle of a somethingrather gate type situation. People aren't ready yet to move on to constructive problem solving

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I think some folks rather enjoy it

Fermi paradox

10:08 AM

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Could you link to the project?

user206222

Setting down resentment doesn't mean the company has to change. It can mean accepting that the company will act how it will act, and accepting your actions based on that. Possibly accounting for some limited influence.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Fermiparadox codidact.org

Very much in its infancy.

But it's actually community-owned.

user206222

@Magisch True enough, though I do think it's a collective choice to stay in that mode of thinking.

Tinkeringbell

@Aza ^ It has definitely grown beyond what it used to be, where people could talk about a feature and see it implemented the same year.

Journeyman Geek

@Aza one of the more unique aspects of SE was how there was a certain feeling of partnership between the company and the community

There's a few folk who still get it - I always felt Megan got it (and I'm sad to see her go) for example

And there's something to be said for that, and why folks got ~~addicted~~ attached to SE

Tinkeringbell

10:10 AM

I see a lot of 'older' users talk about how things used to be great... but not really realize that as a company and with growing numbers of users... what used to be is not possible anymore.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Aza That's just it. If the company's behavior is such that you feel associating with it makes you complicit in unethical acts, you can't just accept it.

Hitodama

Oct 10 at 15:49, by SPArchaeologist-様

terdon - stop harming Monica

If I were a stronger person I'd have walked away. But I am addicted.

Journeyman Geek

So if I'm fighting for anything, its to save what I consider SE's heart.

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Now that's actually... don't blame yourself for any of this that's happening, please.

Journeyman Geek

10:11 AM

I'd like someone bigger or stronger, but well, I have what I have

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell there's an air of that though. It's not entirely untrue

user206222

There's a specific word I can't recall for people who focus on how things used to be as a model for what should be achieved in the present. Yes, there was a feeling of partnership between SE and the community. Regrettably, that's less present. But... what practical, achievable options are available to a community now? That's the question to focus on.

Tinkeringbell

You've said you disagreed often enough that anyone who still thinks you'd be unethical for being here is just ... dumb.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Tinkeringbell The only way I can continue is as I said: trying very hard to ignore the company completely. I see my role as a mod now to be protecting my community from this company.

4

Trying to work as though the company didn't exist.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell It's the same sentiment that is (to a much lesser extent here of course) behind people saying that you need to boycott certain countries because of their regimes

It's a logical argument to make but rather cold in how people make it

terdon - stop harming Monica

10:13 AM

@Aza The only one I can see is what I said: trying to ignore the company as much as possible.

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Well, in a sense it often doesn't... So I hope they won't interfere too much and you can still have your community :)

user206222

@terdon-stopharmingMonica What do you intend to achieve?

Fermi paradox

@terdon-stopharmingMonica thanks for the link. I hope it goes well. Competition might help the wonderful people at the top of SE realize that they are going downhill.

terdon - stop harming Monica

We don't seek guidance from them, we don't ask them for features, we don't ask for anything other than that they keep the lights on.

2

@Aza Asking and answering questions. What do you mean? I don't want to achieve anything for SE anymore.

Magisch

I think we went from the communities wanting to prosper with the company and with their help to wanting to prosper despite the company and their "help".

terdon - stop harming Monica

10:14 AM

All that can be salvaged is some useful content and just wait until SE figures out the next new way of shooting itself in the foot.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, it's... not a great sentiment to have. I see it a lot on social media too, I even was part of it a week or so ago... :|

Magisch

although personally I still hope we can wait until this all settles, hopefully monica can come to some tenable resolution with SE even if it's a way's off, and we can write off this whole year and go somewhere productive next

Tinkeringbell

That would be nice :)

Magisch

not that it's a high hope, but there's some

user206222

Your goal is probably achieved a priori, then. [shrug]

terdon - stop harming Monica

10:18 AM

@Magisch With the company still refusing to explain how they can change the licence unilaterally, meaning we have no reason to trust that they'll follow any other requirements such as never putting the site behind a paywall? With the company never apologizing for dragging a user's name through the mud in the press? With the company reneging on one promise after another ("we will use this license" "we will never show animated ads" "we don't track you")?

user206222

By which I mean: if that's your goal, and you've already accepted that there's nothing left that's salvageable, there's very little reason to feel anything but calm. Everything is handled. You can ask and answer questions, Stack's never gonna stop you from making content. And the stuff with Monica's out of anyone's hands but the law.

terdon - stop harming Monica

I can't see it. As long as this company remains associated with the network and as long as the company doesn't make any fundamental changes, I just don't see how we can ever say this has settled.

@Aza Yes. Which is why I'm relatively calm. Sad, but calm.

Although I wish I were sure that they'll never stop us from making content. I honestly fear that one day I'll wake up and find that all of my content is now behind a paywall and being offered to paying customers only.

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica The license could probably be changed because it wasn't a real change, just an update?

Things update all the time....

They'd done it before too, several times. What made this one go over so bad?

Fermi paradox

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Are you sure it's the company as a whole? To me it looks as if a group of like-minded employees are responsible for forcing their worldviews on everyone.

3

terdon - stop harming Monica

The company was very careful to make sure we cannot bring a class action suit against them, and they've shown they have no respect for the terms of the license, so I see no reason to believe they will respect the license enough to keep our content public.

Tinkeringbell

10:22 AM

@terdon-stopharmingMonica How do you know parts of your content aren't behind a paywall already? Someone on some team somewhere may have copied/linked it! :P

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Tinkeringbell The complete loss of trust. In the past, I trusted them to ignore only that small part of the rules. Now, I don't trust them at all so if they can ignore that bit, I fear they can ignore anything.

@Tinkeringbell That's fine. It's still available for free as well.

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica That's... very pessimistic. Perhaps to the point of being a bit unrealistic.

If I could do anything to cheer you up, I would :)

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Fermiparadox There's no such thing as the company as a whole. They're individuals, each of whom will have their own opinion. However, all we see is how the company as an entity behaves. I have nothing against the individuals making up the company, I object to the emergent qualities of that group.

Magisch

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Maybe in the US. In most of europe, that agreement isn't worth the non paper it's written on. If they ever pull a paywall, I have enough of my own money right here to make sure that if nothing else, it'll be painful for them to try.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Tinkeringbell Is it though? I mean, they haven't even deigned to explain their reasoning. There have been very calm and constructive posts on meta about this and the only answer we've gotten to the very reasonable question of "Was this actually legal?" was "Our lawyers are on board". That doesn't mean it's legal. That corporate lawyers are on board simply means the company cannot easily be sued for it. Nothing more.

Magisch

10:25 AM

but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it which is likely never

terdon - stop harming Monica

I found it very telling that Tim, who is a careful writer, never claimed it was legal but only that lawyers were aware

Magisch

do you expect the company to go "yeah we illegally modified the license but our lawyers told us most of you cannot sue" for real?

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Hmmm. I wouldn't read that much into it...

Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi

@Fermiparadox That group of like-minded individuals sure have enough influence and numbers to make it look like it's the whole company.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Magisch Well, either it is legal or it isn't. If it is, they could simply explain why it is and why so many of us who have read the license have misunderstood the section of it that explicitly states that changing to a newer version requires the consent of the authors.

The fact that they haven't given any such explanation forces me to assume they know it isn't legal.

But they consider it low risk.

Fermi paradox

10:32 AM

@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi they are close to the top, not at the actual top as a friend of mine here wrongly believes. :) That's why their negative influence is so strong. This can be fixed but it takes some effort. Additionally since they are at the top and can report to the rest of the company the results of their decisions, they get to present them the way they want.

That is, they give the wrong impression to the rest of the company. That's what happens when there is insufficient accountability and transparency.

Magisch

I would be careful with picking enemies in the form of specific staff members

public outrage is often misdirected and even if not usually not useful and has real life consequences on people.

user206222

I would strongly recommend against even implying people should be looking for specific heads in Stack Exchange.

4

Magisch

In a situation such as this where tempers run incredibly hot singling out anyone has real implications for their safety and the security of their family

terdon - stop harming Monica

Yes. We simply don't have the data to know who is to "blame" and, in any case, that is a pointless exercise.

Fermi paradox

@Magisch What on earth? Were did i imply going after their families? What i want is transparency and justifying their actions.

2

Tinkeringbell

10:43 AM

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Yeah... one of the most valuable things I learned was that you can look for causes without blame... It really helps with not going mad some days ;)

terdon - stop harming Monica

They don't need to justify their actions to us. They work for a company, they may need to justify their actions to their employers. But we have no claim on anyone in the company. They're just people doing a job.

Mithical

@Fermiparadox There have been cases where people have threatened moderators over a suspension, including cases such as calling their workplace in an attempt to get them fired, and cases where people have threatened employees, such as when someone made a credible enough SWATTIng threat that the police were contacted preemptively. Safety is a serious concern.

terdon - stop harming Monica

So while we may request (not demand) transparency from the company as a whole, that should absolutely not extend to naming names. SE have done enough shady crap already without starting to throw their employees to us wolves.

Mithical

So even if you personally wouldn't stoop to the level of "threatening their families", other people certainly have and will.

Fermi paradox

@Mithical 0_0 How often does that happen???

terdon - stop harming Monica

10:47 AM

One employee has even had the FBI sent to their home.

Fermi paradox

Wooow

Wait isn' swatting a serious crime?

Mithical

Yes.

terdon - stop harming Monica

So yeah, while we have good reason to call the company "not nice", we should remember that we (the broad "we" of the community) are also very much not nice.

Fermi paradox

How many such cases did you have so far?

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Fermiparadox Isn't one enough?

More than enough?

Magisch

10:49 AM

@Fermiparadox wouldn't be the first time something like that happened as collateral

user206222

You don't want to know how serious this stuff can get.

Magisch

just because you wouldn't doesn't mean some people won't take that as license to do

Fermi paradox

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Out of 7 billion people 1 is negligible. There are always crazy people. I dont think the community as a general is not nice because of the actions of tiny minority of psychopaths.

Mithical

...for the record, stuff like these incidents was a contributing factor to me resigning. With the environment at the time and the stuff I was seeing being posted I decided it was safer, literally, for me to step down.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Fermiparadox One is more than enough to justify protecting their employees.

user206222

10:51 AM

@Fermiparadox When you say "there are always crazy people," you play games with people's safety.

user206222

Frankly, I can't actually tell you how serious this stuff can get, because this is a public space. If all Stack's had is a single swatting, that's remarkably gentle.

Magisch

You know, I'm very much soured on the entire concept of calling out people individually

whenever you do that you're playing a dangerous game with other people's safety

the internet enables some horrible abuses in that regard, and your intent doesn't matter for what the consequence is. I can not want that all I want, in the end the bottom line is I'd still have contributed to it. And that effect is foreseeable. So there's no justification to go there

Journeyman Geek

@Fermiparadox there are a few cases of people in the community being stalked

Fermi paradox

@Magisch That is not what I asked. I asked for accountability. If some employees implement a policy that is detrimental to the health of SE they should be held accountable by their employers. Isn't it common sense in any company? I do not mean being fired, stalked, swatted. I do not ask for their names. Even a consistent anonymous pseudoname is enough.

2

Mithical

Individual employees are accountable to their employees - the company. It's not entirely unreasonable to ask that the company might be accountable to the community, but the employees should not in any way shape or form be accountable to the community.

Fermi paradox

11:00 AM

@Aza I wonder what your opinion would be then about media painting crime statistics as "isolated incidents"? Hundreds to thousands of .... isolated incidents per year.

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Fermiparadox By their employers? Sure. By us? Absolutely not.

And we have no way of knowing what sort of internal disciplinary procedures SE may have, and nor should we.

user206222

@Fermiparadox I don't know what you're trying to ask

Fermi paradox

@Aza It's a forbidden discussion about statistics so I can't be more explicit. Never mind.

Mithical

*confused squint*

user206222

Okey-doke.

Erik Reinstate MonicA

11:22 AM

Do we have any idea who will be the new product manager? I was surprised to learn Megan Risdal left

Journeyman Geek

@ErikReinstateMonicA there's a ad for the role so...

I don't think SO Corp knows either

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Looks like there's a parrot hat... @Tink must be thrilled. :P

@ErikReinstateMonicA she did?! omg

Mithical

SO seems to be going through PMs quickly...

@ShadowThePrincessWizard see pins

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Well, she was good... :/

@Mithical I see winter bash, user script for knitting, and personal blog of you. What about it?

oh it's not your blog

Mithical

That's not my blog... it's Megan's.

user206222

11:25 AM

mrisdal != mithical

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Both start with @m

I rarely read past the first letter.

:D

Journeyman Geek

smacks @ShadowThePrincessWizard

GET SOME READING GLASSES OLD MAN.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

seeing it as smacks @SmokeDetector

!!/smack @Journeyman

Journeyman Geek

See! Your ability to read is better! Also MODABUSE!

Shadow The Princess Wizard

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this is a spam post. — Shadow The Princess Wizard 11 secs ago

Magisch

11:40 AM

@ShadowThePrincessWizard you monster

Shadow The Princess Wizard

om nom nom

Magisch

@Mithical imagine starting a new role as PM and your first 6 months on the role turn into ... this

probably not the best environment to retain qualified and motivated employees

Mithical

@Magisch Worse than Joe's experience, even.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch tbh, even despite that, she was always very positive and communicative

Magisch

I liked megan

Mithical

11:44 AM

We all did. :(

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowThePrincessWizard It's a bit hard to earn for me... but I'll try for that one. :)

Magisch

despite that, I can't fault her for leaving

I wouldn't make it a week in a job like that hell no

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch There's a whole load of jobs I wouldn't make it a week in ;)

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Well she was one of very few who could save SE... but guess the "What if" game isn't a good idea here and now.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowThePrincessWizard You can do your part to save SE too :) Your comments on Yaakov's answer were nice.

Shadow The Princess Wizard

11:58 AM

@Tinkeringbell thanks. My respect for @Yaakov only rise in each passing day. :)

huh he's here?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Don't just stick with your favorite employee though ;) Others can often use your kind words as well :)

Yaakov Ellis

@ShadowThePrincessWizard apparently

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell first they have to show themselves.... :/

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowThePrincessWizard I was about to ask if you were sure :P

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell ping list is never wrong! ;)

@YaakovEllis oh. Hello! waves

Yaakov Ellis

12:00 PM

@Tinkeringbell +1 for this.

Tinkeringbell

But no stars? :(

Shadow The Princess Wizard

say again?

Tinkeringbell

Yay!

Shadow The Princess Wizard

Any hat for chat stars this year? #askingForFriend

Tinkeringbell

The glasses with a number on top ... apparently. But I already have those ;)

Without even getting a star.

Magisch

12:02 PM

I have no hats so far

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Do you want to borrow my glasses with a number on top?

Yaakov Ellis

@Magisch I only got my first hat 5 minutes ago. And I could cheat if I wanted to (but I dont)

Tinkeringbell

They don't match my outfit anyways.

Journeyman Geek

cheating makes it less fun

Magisch

I still haven't found a new avatar theme I want to work with

Journeyman Geek

12:03 PM

(though in previous years, staff got all the hats ;p)

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I'd go for a parrot.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Maybe I will. A green one

Shadow The Princess Wizard

@Tinkeringbell thorny parrot?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch You monster!

@ShadowThePrincessWizard Eh... nah.

That one is kinda cool, but not red enough.

Rob

12:41 PM

The plasma parrot.

Tinkeringbell

XD I think it's just computer generated, but that would be cool!

Hitodama

@Tinkeringbell I could try and see if Google DeepDream makes it any better.....

@Magisch embrace your inner pony.

Tinkeringbell

@Hitodama Can it do better than this?

Journeyman Geek

12:58 PM

If by better you mean more nightmarefuelly

And yes that's an actual word.

Hitodama

for some definitions of "better"....

just a random result from google

Tinkeringbell

Kinda cool but very green.

Columbia says Reinstate Monica

@Hitodama While this parrot may answer the question, it is better to veer to starboard and search for treasure. Answers that are little more than a parrot may be made to walk the plank. Arr!

Tinkeringbell

Hitodama

@ColumbiasaysReinstateMonica Status: busy knitting Nanachi.

Feeds

1:19 PM

‘Tis the Season for Hats! Join Us for Winter Bash 2019

Cesar Manara on December 09, 2019

Around the globe, we look forward to celebrating traditions that are unique to us, our families, and our communities. The season gives us a chance to reflect, makes us smile, and helps bring us all together.

This year is a special one for the Winter Bash tradition. A hectic end of the year (that included a company-wide Meetup and a ramped-up focus on delivering improvements across other parts of our Q&A experience) means this year’s Winter Bash theme is the same as last year’s. But don’t despair, last year’s theme was awesome! …

Tinkeringbell

@Feeds Poor cat :(

Gimby

I don't think the cat will suffer much from a hat that has been placed on top of a photo of it :)

Tinkeringbell

But it looks so unhappy!

I have a poorer cat picture then... lemme dig.

Gimby

Now that grinds my gears

Tinkeringbell

It did grind Facebook's gears too :P

A LOT

Gimby

1:31 PM

I assume you are a cat person?

Tinkeringbell

Not really...

Rabbit person. Big rabbit person :)

Magisch

that is animal abuse

Gimby

Pretty much yeah. I severely dislike it when people treat their pets like property.

Tinkeringbell

As in... big rabbit.

Gimby

whoa :)

El Monstro

Tinkeringbell

1:33 PM

@Magisch If the cat is used to wearing some sort of harness, it might not be as bad as it seems....

Magisch

How do you care for a rabbit such as this

how big does its enclosure need to be

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Entire back yard. Also, get two, rabbits are social animals :)

And then loads of lettuce, I guess XD

Magisch

and of course the most important question

can you cuddle it

Tinkeringbell

Yes! They're surprisingly cuddly if properly socialised :) My uncle has one :D

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Tinkeringbell holy crap, that thing's for real!

Flemish Giant rabbit

The Flemish Giant rabbit is a very large breed of domestic rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus domesticus), normally considered to be the largest breed of the species. Flemish Giants are a utility breed, and are most commonly bred for fur and meat. The breed is also known for its docile nature and patience in being handled, resulting in the large animals commonly being kept as pets. == History == The Flemish Giant originated in Flanders. It was bred as early as the 16th century near the city of Ghent, Belgium. It is believed to have descended from a number of meat and fur breeds, possibly including...

Journeyman Geek

1:34 PM

@Tinkeringbell flemish giant!

terdon - stop harming Monica

Journeyman Geek

They get bigger

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica I wasn't joking. I'm seriously considering getting two when I have my apartment and a properly fenced backyard :)

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell I should visit sometime

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch You'd be more than welcome :)

terdon - stop harming Monica

1:35 PM

@Tinkeringbell I had assumed that photo was photoshopped. I just thought I'd look it up, just in case, and well, dang!

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica They're amazing. All the fluff of a small dog in rabbit form so no barking! XD

JAD

10x the amount of poo though

terdon - stop harming Monica

> Flemish Giant Rabbits weigh 15 pounds on average, though the biggest ones can weigh up to 22 lb, and the longest one on record (in fact, holding the record for the longest
rabbit in the world of any kind), measured about 4 feet 3 inches long.

Magisch

!

Tinkeringbell

@JAD Rabbits can be litter box trained, and even if not, they often poo in one place. So it's just scooping it up regularly.

Gimby

1:37 PM

Yeah but what does the poop of such a giant rabbit look like

JAD

@Tinkeringbell I know, but still

@Gimby at least meat ball sized ;)

Gimby

That's what I was thinking, tennis ball size

terdon - stop harming Monica

It's not that big. Presumably it will produce comparable quantities to what a dog gifts us with.

Magisch

consider the upside: a giant rabbit

all the fluff of a rabbit but even bigger

JAD

@Gimby but without kidding, not that big, just more

Magisch

1:39 PM

@JAD how are your snakes btw

terdon - stop harming Monica

I want to see the face of the first cat who goes "Hmm, I smell rabbit!" and then runs into that behemoth.

Gimby

my cat is not really impressed with the size of things. It moves, it smells, it must die.

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica It is still a prey animal, so it might just be scared of the cat too...

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Gimby Yeah, but when it weighs three times as much as you, even cats might have a second think about it.

JAD

@Magisch they're still in business :P

terdon - stop harming Monica

1:40 PM

Kinda like a pekingese following the scent of a maine coon.

JAD

Honestly same as always, doing great and Snor is still growing

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica I mean, I've seen lions take down elephants on TV :P

terdon - stop harming Monica

@Tinkeringbell Lions.

Magisch

How often do you feed snor these days?

Tinkeringbell

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Those are cat-shaped too!

Gimby

1:41 PM

@Tinkeringbell Exactly. Bigger = more food.

Tinkeringbell

@Gimby No cats in my backyard then ;)

JAD

@Magisch they both get two rats every two weeks

terdon - stop harming Monica

Here, kitty, kitty, kitty

Gimby

@Tinkeringbell Seriously, block it off good

Tinkeringbell

@Gimby I would have to anyways, I'm near the forest and there might be a bird of prey or two flying by...

terdon - stop harming Monica

1:42 PM

@Tinkeringbell that's medium dog fluff actially ;p

Tinkeringbell

You know, except for pet snakes getting to eat so little... I wouldn't mind being a pet snake :P Just a nice warm corner somewhere I get to lay around in :D

@JourneymanGeek Even better!

JAD

@Tinkeringbell I think Snor agrees. A week after eating she starts pacing the tank looking for food. But if I let her, she will become a massive sausage in no time

Tinkeringbell

@JAD And that's not good? I thought she was supposed to grow big?

JAD

1:45 PM

@Tinkeringbell it's very very easy to overfeed snakes. By nature they are opportunistic hunters. They'll eat what they can find. That also means they will stuff themselves with more than they need

Tinkeringbell

Sounds recognizable :P

JAD

;)

and many keepers like their snakes big and massive... especially since it gets them to breeding size quicker. But it's really unhealthy

Mithical

Well that came out slightly freakily.

Journeyman Geek

I think its the noseline

and the 4 nostrils

Mithical

*snorts*

(disclaimer: only the background was done by hand...)

(The rest just got slightly touched up.)

terdon - stop harming Monica

1:52 PM

@Mithical That actually makes it worse! You did the most tedious bit manually?

That's dedication, that is!

Mithical

@terdon-stopharmingMonica I was waiting for someone to say that :P

Gimby

Man, it's hard work looking at it. It's like the heart pattern causes strain

Tinkeringbell

I should try and turn one of the ones I made last year into something real...

Mithical

@JourneymanGeek I'm not sure changing it helps much.

Journeyman Geek

looks better

Mithical

1:57 PM

The orignal one does look slightly Bajoran.

Tinkeringbell

It looks like they fixed the hats in chat?

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell What bird of prey could carry off such a mammoth of a rabbit?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Well, perhaps not carry off but it could seriously injure, I think?

Magisch

@JAD I heard somewhere that overfeeding snakes will cut their lifespan in about half

djsmiley2k - CoW

Pretty sure one of our kittens is a norwegian forest cross.

Tinkeringbell

2:12 PM

Oh! Those are pretty cats :D

Not as good as rabbits, but pretty :P

Magisch

me want

JAD

@Magisch something like that yeah

terdon - stop harming Monica

@djsmiley2k-CoW Please tell me you'll name it Ringo!

PM 2Ring

2:29 PM

@Magisch Perhaps not carry it off, but large birds of prey can easily handle a rabbit. The Australian wedge-tailed eagle can even take on a lamb, but they aren't stupid, and they normally only attack large prey if it's obviously weak or injured.

Journeyman Geek

@PM2Ring that's roughly a terrier sized rabbit

Stevoisiak supports Monica

@Tinkeringbell This was not the first thing I expected to see at work today.

Tinkeringbell

@StevoisiaksupportsMonica XD you should've scrolled up less or more, then :P

Stevoisiak supports Monica

It was literally at the top of my feed

PM 2Ring

@JourneymanGeek Understood. I bet it's smaller than a lamb.

Stevoisiak supports Monica

2:40 PM

I can't click the highlights button without scrolling back up to it

Tinkeringbell

Oh, I never use highlights ...

Journeyman Geek

@PM2Ring depends on the lamb, and the rabbit.

Drag and Drop

Hi @All! Quick question: How are we supossed to navigate in the blog (stackoverflow.blog)? How can we browse article that are not on the front page anymore? There is no pagination or anything

Journeyman Geek

And whether its the VORPAL BUNNY OF CAIR BANNOG

Stevoisiak supports Monica

I've been using it to check if I missed any current events.

Journeyman Geek

2:42 PM

@DragandDrop ... that's a good question

I can't find it either

Drag and Drop

That's so disruptve!

Journeyman Geek

I'd suggest complaining, but I'm not entirely sure where :D

(I guess meta, until they work out how they want to do these things)

Catija

Wait... you can't search for blog posts you don't know exist?

Journeyman Geek

the navigation is a bit....

non existant?

there's a few categories but no "next"y thing for say featured pages

Magisch

@Catija not on stackoverflow.blog iirc

you can google fu the subject matter and see if you get a hit

Journeyman Geek

2:47 PM

no search either

Catija

Wha?

Shows you how much I read the blog.

Magisch

you probably heard everything on there before it even gets posted

Catija

Either that or it's dev stuff that doesn't make sense to me.

PM 2Ring

Of course, if we want really large rodents, there's always beavers and capybaras.

Magisch

our new primary and only announcement system, everyone :D

Catija

2:48 PM

WHEEEE!

JonasCz - Reinstate Monica

You can go to a 404 page (stackoverflow.blog/404), there you have a sidebar with categories. Those categories do have pagination

Magisch

I'm experiencing serious banner blindness with the blog

these days 2/3 of the posts are spam that I can't flag so I learned to tune them out

Journeyman Geek

@Catija imgur.com/a/YMCfeke

this is what I see

Drag and Drop

Well my English is horrible, It would take me too long to post a question and triple check typos and grammar. I will just hit google robot.

Journeyman Geek

Oh

I'll do it

Catija

2:52 PM

I swear it used to have search...

Mithical

We can edit typos and grammar, don't worry.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija you don't see it either, right?

Catija

No. I just assumed.

Mithical

stackoverflow.blog/?s=example

Catija

And with the posts coming out faster, that means what's visible is a short amount of time.

Drag and Drop

2:53 PM

Hit google with ["stackoverflow.blog" sitemap] found a dupe meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/391735/…

Mithical

You can definitely search, but I don't see where the searchbar is. I just pressed tab in the URL bar...

Erik Reinstate MonicA

It's WordPress, so it takes some work to disable search and pagination altogether

Mithical

Drag and Drop

@ErikReinstateMonicA, feels like a feature. [status-bydesign].

Erik Reinstate MonicA

They messed pagination up good though, e.g. stackoverflow.blog/page/30 works but stackoverflow.blog/page/1000 doesn't since there's not that many pages, but they all show the same new blogs

Catija

2:58 PM

@Mithical Isn't that a browser feature?

Mithical

Yes, but it only works for sites with a a built-in search feature.

Also, see: A search

Transcript for