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12:00 AM
@JourneymanGeek - What do you mean? Are you saying you don't believe me, that it was an honest mistake? The second time, there was a message signed by you and two other moderators, forwarding something from Jon Ericson. The first time, there was nothing. I was assuming you would have been aware of the message that had your name as a signatory.
 
@aparente001 the mod messages are supposed to be anonymous
So we see it, but it dosen't necessarily mean we're involved
By right it should just be signed off the "Meta Stack Exchange moderator team"
 
@JourneymanGeek - I didn't say I was assuming you were involved in the decision or the message. I was trying to say that I was assuming you would or could have been aware of the message and the contents. My point was, if you were aware, then why might you think that it wasn't an honest mistake? Them's fighting words. If in fact that is what you meant. Once again, as happens extremely often when I read your writing,
 
Which basically could include anyone with a diamond, community/volunteer mod or not
 
... I don't understand what you're saying.
 
@aparente001 I didn't say it wasn't
 
12:03 AM
And I ask for clarification, and I don't get it.
Well, then, what did you mean?
 
I said "They might be aware" - and that was more for sonic's benefit in this case
You would be aware you were aware. I would be aware I was aware.
He would not
 
@JourneymanGeek - Here is your comment that I did not understand (which on the face of it looked confrontational but I hope it wasn't): "@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog uhm, see the rest of the conversation
Which is context you probably lacked, and I was intentionally unclear about :D"
 
@aparente001 which is literally what we were talking about before.
 
So sonic wouldn't wonder why I had said what I had said
 
12:05 AM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog - Me too.
 
But clearly I've failed
 
@JourneymanGeek - So Sonic wouldn't wonder why you said what exactly?
 
Yes
Precisely
i WAS NOT EVEN TRYING TO BE CONFUSING AND MYSTERIOUS.
 
@JourneymanGeek - But the question is not whether you try to be confusing. It's whether you try to be clear. Look, it might just be me. But I really don't understand. You wrote, "I suspect they're aware." I was aware when I responded to the invitation to come to the Tavern, but I was not sure, when I wrote the second post.
It feels like you are not assuming the best.
I hope that is not the case.
 
@aparente001 I wasn't assuming anything.
Well other than the specific folks would get the context they need without spelling it out
 
12:09 AM
Well, I'd appreciate it if you would assume the best, as I think we are all supposed to do. Certainly assuming the best is a good way to avoid unnecessary conflict.
If you want to believe me, great. If you don't, I don't think there's anything more I can do about it.
 
I'm actually not assuming anything
 
Hmm. Were you trying to tell Sonic that you figured that by now I would be aware? Or that I was aware when I wrote the second (duplicate) post?
 
...someone remind me why this is a useful argument to be having
 
The former.
 
Thank you. I understand now.
 
12:12 AM
If someone intentionally reposts a post that was deleted, the response would be very different
 
@ArtOfCode - Sometimes achieving mutual understanding requires patience.
@JourneymanGeek - Well, that's why I included the paragraph in italics. I was doing like the dog who lies on his back to show he is non-threatening. Because moderators and CM's are, understandably, on a hair trigger these days and I would not like to be suspended again.
 
@aparente001 contrary to popular belief, we try not to suspend people. ._.
 
@JourneymanGeek - Didn't I say "understandably"?
 
There is no "Hair trigger"
 
@JourneymanGeek - It felt that way to me.
 
12:14 AM
just lots of people who seem to think we are.
@aparente001 You see the effect, not the stuff behind the scenes
 
I don't hold it against anyone, but I would really like to get that looked into. It is very discouraging when I can't get a dialogue set up with the relevant moderators (they/you referred me to the CMs) but the CMs don't respond.
 
And no one notices the stuff that is here. Only the things that gets amplified and blown up
 
Third attempt: I DID SAY "UNDERSTANDABLY".
 
@aparente001 well - some things are just not up for negotiations
 
@JourneymanGeek - I don't know what you're alluding to. (Yet again.)
 
12:16 AM
@JourneymanGeek Would have been much nicer and better for me to understand if you'd put the words "by now" after your initial message to me. (And, in this case, it would have avoided a long discussion.)
 
If you don't feel the governance of SE works for you - unless you're on the board, turning SE into a wikimedia style foundation. Also asking for salary or organisational details outside the salary calculator isn't going to happen
or sharing how long support requests take to get handled for that matter
 
Look, from my point of view, my 7-day suspension was unfair and arbitrary. I accept that for moderators to be able to do their job, they need to do things that are sometimes, or perhaps often, going to seem unfair. But that shouldn't mean that there can't be a conversation about what happened.
 
I work helpdesk - that sort of request literally needs our client to make a official, high level SR
@aparente001 everyone thinks their suspensions are unfair and arbitrary, and that its completely normal behaviour to $foo
 
I will request once again: I would appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation with whoever suspended me, in private. Regarding the suspension.
 
and that's partially the point of a suspension
@aparente001 we don't do that
 
12:19 AM
I think that multiple topics are getting mixed together here into a very messy goulash.
 
there's a reason suspensions are confidencial
 
Confidential is one thing, refusal to dialogue is another.
 
and for fairness sake, if we let one person take up our time, specifically over it, we need to do it for everyone
 
I AM asking that the conversation be in private.
 
And I'm saying "We can't do that"
 
12:20 AM
Well, I disagree. A suspension, if it is really to resolve anything, should be seen as a teachable moment.
2
You can, but you choose not to. Which is your right.
If you think that the resentment is just going to go away, and that I am suddenly going to feel less frustrated when the things you write are inscrutable, and you refuse to clarify when I say I don't understand, then you are sadly mistaken.
 
@aparente001 Simply cause it will remove some of the protections we have - put in place due to folks actually getting threatened, and because folks will intentionally tie us up as long as possible, then complain cause they're not happy cause we're not going to admit we're wrong, even when we arn't
there's got to be a line drawn somewhere to how far we have to go
 
@aparente001 The standard, official advice if the moderator team can't adequately respond to you regarding a suspension is to contact SE.
 
Here are the facts, from my point of view: I requested assistance in dealing with a specific issue. This request fell on deaf ears. Several weeks later, I was suspended because of events that transpired in relation to the specific request I had made. // I am not trying to tie up your time. I'm trying to communicate clearly and productively.
"The standard, official advice if the moderator team can't adequately respond to you regarding a suspension is to contact SE." -- That would be great, if they would actually respond.
 
@aparente001 If its the issue I recall - it was denied a few times
this was over a comments thread right?
 
It is time to go to a private room. I cannot respond publicly to what you just wrote.
 
12:24 AM
@aparente001 The vast majority of people respond to such things with "I honestly don't understand why what I did was wrong, please explain", and then "no, you're wrong, your reasons make zero sense", etc etc.
 
I had specifically reached out to request assistance.
 
shrug More or less it was reviewed, and denied. If I recall many times.
and No is an answer, no matter how many times you ask.
 
What was denied?
 
If memory serves, most of your recent flags were over the same issue?
 
While there are people with the mental and emotional budget to respond to those things, most people don't.
 
12:26 AM
@JourneymanGeek - I think you've said some unfair, unkind things here, and I am very uncomfortable continuing this conversation in public.
 
@aparente001 I'm saying its not that we didn't respond. I'm saying "we said no"
 
I'd be happy for Sonic to join the conversation in a private venue if they wish to. But I don't want to discuss the details in public.
 
I can't speak for the request on the community
but No, literally is the answer
 
@aparente001 I'll remain out of this, thanks.
 
I don't understand "the request of the community."
@Sonic - sure, that's fine. I didn't want you to think it was anything personal.
 
12:28 AM
That's me being scatterbrained.
I can't speak on the request to the community team
But from what I see, the answer from the mod team is no
 
But anybody and his cousin can read this and I don't wish to discuss this further here. I would be grateful of the opportunity to discuss it in private at journeyman's convenience.
I don't know what you mean. The answer to what is "no"?
 
@aparente001 Consider emailing a CM directly
 
@aparente001 Only that for most part - I don't think there's a discussion to be had
 
@sonic - I have tried that.
 
I looked at your mod message, and recent flags.
and they're roughly over the same issue
 
12:29 AM
@JourneymanGeek - You have asked me things here that I have said make me uncomfortable.
 
and the answer is no
I didn't bring it up
If you want my time, well it has to be on my terms.
 
I'll say the same thing I say to my two boys: you are responsible for what YOU do.
 
I didn't see any unfriendly things in Journeyman's recent messages
 
What are your terms? What the heck are you talking about?
@sonic - how many times have I said I'm not comfortable answering his questions in public?
 
That's to say I'm not going to go offsite or to a private room to have a discussion over a mod decision
You go through public channels, or proper ones
 
12:31 AM
What is a proper channel?
 
@aparente001 I'd say flags. And if those flags were denied, well that's your answer.
 
And what is your objection to a private room?
 
Simply that its an imposition on my time, on something that I feel is pretty clear.
 
How was this any different (from your point of view)? (From my point of view, the segue into thiis area made me profoundly uncomfortable, and I tried very hard to make that clear.)
 
I'll do good faith, best effort, but if I'm going to go out of the way - and I have before, its on my terms.
 
12:34 AM
@ArtOfCode It's definitely not.
 
It's your choice. If you refuse to talk with me privately, where I will not feel profoundly uncomfortable, then there's nothing I can do.
 
@aparente001 Honestly, there's a higher chance that a CM will respond to your emails than there is a chance of getting him to speak to you in private.
 
@sonic - when you need to criticize your kid because of inappropriate behavior at Thanksgiving, you call him/her discreetly into the hall or the kitchen. You don't have that conversation in front of Aunt Bess.
It's humiliating and counterproductive.
If my choices are to let my frustrations fester all on my own, vs. discuss a private matter with you here in public, I choose the former.
I would have been very glad to discuss the matter with a CM -- but there has been no response.
 
@aparente001 at the same time, I'm not your parent. and I should have the freedom to dictate how I choose to communicate.
 
12:37 AM
We're not accusing you of anything - we're simply answering your questions, and giving you an alternate path that is still also private: contacting a CM.
 
At other SE sites, the moderators area approachable. Especially when a user says, I am having a problem, and would appreciate some guidance.
 
@aparente001 on SU and elsewhere I've always done moderation work default public, and using the tools I have
 
@JourneymanGeek - You are here to control people's behavior and help guide discussions to be productive and not hurtful, no?
 
even where I can contact a CM directly I've used the same tools other folks do
@aparente001 control? in the sense of herding cats.
But part of that is also setting boundaries for folks
 
@sonic - "we're simply answering your questions, and giving you an alternate path that is still also private: contacting a CM." (a) you said you wanted to be left out of it. (b) I didn't ask any questions. (c) Telling me to contact a CM is like Marie Antoinette telling the starving to eat cake.
@JourneymanGeek - It doesn't have to be like herding cats. I gave the mods here an opportunity to proactively help me deal with a problem -- which then exploded several weeks later. To me, that feels profoundly unfair (to me) and rather short sighted (from the mods' point of view).
I am very sorry, but I have to go now. I hope, J., you and your colleagues will reconsider.
 
12:41 AM
@aparente001 a) I wanted to be left out of the private discussion. b) You did ask for (make some requests for) things that Journeyman Geek has repeatedly said he isn't willing to do. c) It's worked for me personally. I don't recommend things if I know they won't work.
@JourneymanGeek This comment of yours is missing the "welcome" part.
 
That's wierd
I use a userscript
I'll give it a poke later
uhm, its missing
how long has it been missing for 0_0
grumbles about why I hate per forma comments and that organic handwritten ones are better
 
Rob
1:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek some things are down / not studiously maintained recently (hard to follow gist from SoBiotics where people are tired (and slowly becoming reenergized)) - so things go up and down, might need to file a bug report on that UserScript, here's a fun replacement: stackapps.com/q/8327/58236
 
@Rob oh, the close reasons are standard
I could probably swap it for @Glorfindel's lost soul script and improve my workflow
Cause that's literally all I use it for
 
Rob
There's so many.
 
@Rob If its not a person asking a question on the wrong site, I write out a comment by hand
I'm old fashioned and really feel that to a certain extent, I need to deal with people as people
 
Rob
Here's a post about the SOUP and SOX projects, where they claim to be cataloguing all the SE/SO UserScripts.
 
from what I can tell I'm using the AutoReviewComments extension
 
Rob
1:30 AM
It always write my 'were closing it because' by hand, and try to suggest a better site (if applicable) or offer a one sentence answer ,(if possible).
 
hasn't been maintained in years
@Rob Used to do that
were too many ><
 
Rob
I reserve for new users with good questions.
Usually someone punches the button and throws in the boilerplate before I can finish typing.
 
Rob
@JourneymanGeek Could you please ping with a reply rather than a global Rob ping? I end up with a massively cluttered inbox whenever I drop in here :(
 
Rob
\o Rob
 
Rob
o/
 
Rob
1:35 AM
I often think of you, and your bursting inbox.
Luckily 'Physics Rob' doesn't visit here too.
 
Rob
Heh, yep
 
@Rob sorry
 
Rob
No problem!
 
Rob
... and no ping for me from that one. ^
 
1:50 AM
@Rob ya, replies and superpings work.
that said, that's something I wish SE would have a better way to sort out
 
Rob
One possible solution would be look through the History and ping the last one immediately (especially if they were recently on one of the sites), then a few minutes later ping the next one (and so on, but once there's a total of 10 minutes delay do all the rest).
 
0_0
@Rob or just turn the @ selection into seperate clickable options
so have three options there and click (or keyboard shortcut) to select, rather than 2
 
Rob
Force the '@' to have the chooser split is a good idea, why the two should be conjoined makes no sense.
 
yup, and allow pinging by userid 'ala' the superping if you could ping them anyway I guess
 
Rob
And leaving people out doesn't make sense, when there's plenty of room:
You can't even click that to get a larger list. The mystery users ....
 
2:35 AM
they expect you to type in more ;p
 
3:11 AM
Oh for crying out loud
I have a flag saying there's a typo. I was the last person to edit it. My spellcheck can't find the typo.
can you custom flag more than once?
 
Rob
yup
 
I figure it is my eternal nemesis "its" and just wrote avoiding that
 
3:42 AM
@Sonic - Thank you for following up. "a) I wanted to be left out of the private discussion." Thank you for clarifying. I see now from the context that you weren't speaking in general.
"b) You did ask for (make some requests for) things that Journeyman Geek has repeatedly said he isn't willing to do." It's true that "ask" and "ask for" look quite similar but to me at least the meaning is quite different. // He stated here today that he wasn't willing to have a private conversation but that is a position (or policy?) that either he didn't make clear earlier or didn't make it into my brain.
It strikes me as a strange policy, but there are two other moderators here; it doesn't have to be him specifically.
"c) It's worked for me personally. I don't recommend things if I know they won't work." I asked a question about this yesterday (meta.stackexchange.com/q/339847/287826) and I hope you will contribute an answer. I'm glad for you that you heard back in a timely way, but I'm sad that I and apparently some others haven't. I wonder if the recent events have extended the response time.
Thank you and journeyman again for teaching me how to find my own deleted questions.
@Sonic - I checked my email and found:
I received an auto-confirmation of a "contact us" message on March 3 and a thoughtful response on March 20.
I received auto-confirmation of "contact us" messages on Nov. 6 and 17 and today.
 
4:25 AM
@aparente001 I'm not sure if its written down anywhere but nearly all moderation communication is done in public or through mod messages
In theory there's some exceptions but it means there's a record of all our communications with users somewhere
I'm told, in the old old days, mods used email but that gets messy fast when we're using our own email to do things
unrelatedly
Am I confused or is this entirely about the whole, short lived flag-weight system
145
Q: Allow recovery from flag hellban

yoozer8Currently, users can get stuck in a permanent flag hellban from which there is no recovery. I've asked around before and it doesn't look like recovery is possible. To recover, you'd need to gain flag weight, and to gain flag weight you need someone to handle your flags. Since your flags now g...

guess not looking at timestamps
110
Q: What happened to flag weight?

PersonalNexusI just noticed that my profile on Programmers no longer shows my flag weight. Instead I see the number of helpful flags. At the same time, the definition for the Marshal badge has been changed to "500 helpful flags". Does that mean there is no more flag weight? All that counts now is the number ...

 
4:58 AM
@JourneymanGeek - I've had several experiences with conversations with moderators in private rooms; there is certainly a record of the conversation. // I suppose each moderator has to find their own style. I get that. But I thought that there were certain things we were all supposed to
embrace, such as "assume the best." I was surprised earlier today when you said you assume nothing. Well, if that works for you in general, I guess that's okay. However, if you don't want to assume the best with me, then I would like to ask that we keep our distance from each other when possible.
 
5:39 AM
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6:04 AM
Morning!
 
from Robert Harvey's previous posts and comments I got the impression that he's generally calm and composed and provides criticism in a non-hostile, generally acceptable way, so it's a surprise to me that he was suspended for a year for his latest discussion post on meta, but because I don't have 10k rep, I can't view the deleted post and try to learn from his alleged mistakes what he said wrong, and therefore I have no way to know whether the ban was rightful or not
and since bans are not a topic allowed for discussion, there's no way to really ask anyone else to share the contents of deleted posts
this results in doubt in the moderation decisions, which I don't think was the intended result, but is an unfortunate reality
 
Mods permitting I can make you a screenshot
also good morning
 
Oh joy! That means we managed to clean up all the crap, and people can return from their suspension with a clean slate.
 
I would like it if users were able to view deleted content on Meta.SE if they also have enough rep to do the same on other sites, I think that would only be fair
 
@Magisch Nah. There's enough r/a stuff around without reposts, thanks.
 
6:13 AM
@Tinkeringbell see, I don't believe Robert's latest post was "crap", and I have no way to know currently
 
@Tinkeringbell aight
 
@user1306322 Well, then we're sadly done talking if you decide to refuse the moderator team and CMs
 
I just thought I'd voice my opinion
it's not like I can contest these decisions anyway
 
Honestly, the whole attitude of 'prove it' and 'i want to backseat moderate and judge myself'... It only breaks things more.
 
I mean
 
6:15 AM
If we can't suspend people and trust the community to let them come back without bringing up whatever was done wrong ... We're likely to end up suspending again.
 
people are going to question decisions, that's always been the case
 
in light of recent events I'd like to learn more about the effects of such "backseat moderation" and figure out whether I'm the principal Skinner from the meme or not
viewing deleted posts at 10k rep exists for some reason
now I realize I don't know what that reason is
 
@Magisch Sure. But like this? Nah. That's never been the case.
@user1306322 it's the same level where regular users get the privilege to delete stuff (mostly). So you can view deleted stuff and vote to undelete it if it's e.g. edited.
 
so I suppose the list of purposes of this privilege does not include "judging for yourself" or something, to oversee moderation decisions by non-regular-users?
 
Not really, no.
 
6:19 AM
@user1306322 to have users with the trusted privilege check if stuff of value is getting deleted incorrectly. I'm such a trusted user, you can trust me, that post would have stayed deleted.
 
lately I've been talking to different users here and I've collected enough info to see that everyone has different core values at heart and there are distinct groups who want different things for the site, for the MSE in particular, for the future of global Q&A, for the wronged users, and it's hard to gauge the overall opinion from a small number of anonymous post votes, so just looking at post scores is only a vague indicator of what the aggregate public desire is
I'm just gonna refrain from any action at this point until I have sufficient data
so for now, good morning and have a nice day :)
 
Enjoy!
 
@user1306322 I think there is an element of this as well, in general. If nobody can see you can't tell if someone's abusing things.
 
7:06 AM
@Tinkeringbell I've seen inquiries of similar intensity (maybe not of similar distrust) over on SO quite a few times, basically clockwork like every time someone with clout gets suspended.
 
@Magisch Yeah, but this isn't SO ;)
I'd like to think it's better than that.
Though with the recent influx of what seems to be mostly SO users... Perhaps that explains the problem then.
 
still, I think there's a valid self-governance interest in wanting details when high profile members get suspended. This isn't like any other suspension, there's no pretense of pseudo anonimity, especially because most active users can see the post in question, so it feels pointless to go the route of not discussing it
 
@Magisch okay, well. High profile users get suspended whenever they do the same things a low profile users does that gets low profile users suspended.
 
at this crucial time a lot of people are on the fence with regards to what to think about MSE mods, especially since we didn't elect y'all traditionally. It seems like closing off will just lose a lot of people, people you need to make this work in future.
 
Do we really? Do we really want to go the route of spreading rumours about why people were suspended as a community, only to demand moderators quell those rumours?
 
7:11 AM
the rumors are happening whether you and I approve or not
 
Brb, am at the station
 
the only decision you have is to react in a way that quells or reinforces them
Usually the principle of don't show don't tell works. But that breaks down for high profile users. Outside of SO, high profile users rarely get suspended, but when they do, it always makes waves. It's a lesser version of what happened to monica before the statements to the press. When highly respected members get time outs, there are going to be rumors. This is multiplicated by the current climate, and has the potential to deal a lot of damage to mod credibility, especially among those who are
already on the edge of distrusting y'all alltogether. And those are the people who will then become an issue themselves, instead of being swayed to help calm down the waters. Thats just my 2 cents on this, I know you hate backseat moderating so I'll curb it there
 
user245382
Maybe it would help to reframe "backseat moderating" as "working together". You know, like a community, as opposed to making it more "us vs them". Maybe contributions from well-meaning users should be appreciated, as opposed to "hated" and discouraged. You wouldn't say "No working together", would you? (not directed at you, Magisch)
 
The problem is that moderators are given a lot more access to information and context that the rest of us don't have. We can't always see the content that led to decisions, or see if someone's been warned, or if there's a pattern of disruptive behavior.
 
7:32 AM
@Mithical that won't and hasn't stopped people from demanding that context in direct proportion to the amount of personal investment they have
You can't reason someone out of a emotional reaction, which this falls under. The only thing you can control is your reaction to that.
 
@Magisch Oh, I'm well aware... I posted a quote for Rubiks, lemme dig.
Dec 6 at 19:58, by Tinkeringbell
There's ... I'm reading this book called 'making evil'. Quote: 'More poignantly, the offenders people choose to idolise, those who have fans, are those who embody other characteristics that society values'.

Seems applicable. There's a lot that people value about Robert.
There's very little I can do once people decide to mistrust us, that doesn't break confidence.
We don't discuss suspensions publicly, remember?
And well, it has always been that if you don't see any crap, that means it's cleaned up. Not that it was never there.
 
@Tinkeringbell That has been mostly true, though not always
And there is a lot you can do to stop people from getting to the point where they mustrust you. Trust and consent of the governed is essential to making being a moderator work, in my opinion. If you're going to take a strict and teacher-like approach to the situation a lot of things get harder and even untenable.
 
We'll see.
 
I'd rather not find out, but I'm not in charge so :)
 
Right now, if I'd listen to 'the community' and let them tell me what we should/should not moderate in order to not be 'mistrusted'... we can as well shut down meta as it would become a cesspool of hatred and negativity.
 
user206222
7:40 AM
On a theoretical level, I'm not sure that's strictly true @Magisch, but... it's true that Stack doesn't have many conceptual models for moderation that works effectively in that mode.
 
user206222
Doesn't mean it can't work, just means most people here haven't been exposed to it, and it would be a tonal shift. No a priori judgement as to its 'goodness.'
 
Why where all the comments here deleted instead of moved to chat? This removes any constructive criticism of the post.
 
Because apparently your idea of what is constructive differs hugely from whoever moderated the comments.
 
So all 20 comments were not constructive? Nah. I remember that is not true.
Hopefully I ll get a more reasonable explanation that this :)
 
I wouldn't count on it.
Also... implying it is unreasonable is borderline rude.
 
8:00 AM
Saying an explanation is not the most reasonable is not offensive. I m not that good at english but the word "unreasonable" is being used even by Tim. Perhaps I used the wrong synonym? What's the correct way to say "a very unlikely explanation"?
 
a very unlikely explanation? Still... if your idea of what is constructive differs from whoever moderated the comments... claiming you remember that they were not is just going in circles.
Soooo... I'm not going to waste more time on things like this.
There's this bit of wisdom: As soon as people start to talk about how things are said instead of what is said, the conversation is past a point where it is reasonable to continue it. You just reached that point :)
 
@Aza I think the community mods can't be the ones to force such a tonal shift. The community will be in open rebellion against its own people
 
Thank you for the advice Tinkerbell. I have learned a lot about moderation from you in our short interactions :) Please if you have any other useful advice, share it ^^
Have a nice day. :)
 
if you have to fight the very people you're doing this for, every interaction after that will be hostile. That'll burn people out and also kind of necessitates moving away from the election process, because only people squarely against that idea will win elections from then on
 
@Magisch funny thing is - We have had a high rep user suspended on SU ... and we didn't discuss it
 
8:11 AM
@Magisch Who are the very people we're doing this for?
 
I guess the users
who else is MSE for?
 
@Magisch to a large extent - we need to be able to be independant to decide what is the best thing to do
 
It must be abundantly clear by now that a substantial amount of them dislike what you're doing. Are you hoping everyone who disagrees just leaves?
3
 
@Magisch MSE is for the people that want to constructively use it.
 
Obviously not, I assume
 
8:12 AM
If groups of people feel they can apply pressure to force us to do the thing they want us to, it never ends
 
But what counts as constructive and whatnot is not something you can legislate
 
@Magisch Define 'substantial amount'. So far, that substantial amount to me seems to be a bunch of loud voices that popped out of the woodwork after the current fires started.
 
I'm worried for both you and this place and the path I see you all going down
2
 
@Magisch That's kind. But instead of worrying about us... perhaps start worrying about what would happen if we did nothing?
 
before I type this out I want to know if you want to actually hear what I think about this, or if I'm intruding upon business I have no place intruding on
 
8:15 AM
Brb :)
 
no hard feelings either way
 
I have standup now. I'll let you know once I'm back :)
 
...every time you say that, I think you're about to go do some improv comedy skit...
 
@Mithical nothing funny about standups
 
user206222
@Magisch "Force" is complicated. If you conceptualize it as fiat, yes, that becomes harder. But that's not always the only way.
 
8:27 AM
@Aza force, punishment and deletions are obvious
people see those
they don't see stuff that happens behind the scenes or quietly
 
user206222
Even how we talk about those things is malleable and reflects attitudinal choices.
 
user206222
& mods have a lot of influence over those attitudinal choices.
 
8:57 AM
@Mithical same! Hard to get used to terms we don't use ourselves. ;)
(especially when they're used for other things which we're used to)
 
*waves to @Megan* Hey Meg! Sorry to hear you're leaving, but good luck with Kaggle again!
 
9:27 AM
@Mithical aka "happy for you, sad for myself"? ;)
 
sure
 
9:50 AM
12 messages moved to Chimney
Repcapping before noon? Now what am I supposed to do all day? :P
 
@Mithical it's a mithtery
 
@Mithical where? MSE?
 
yeah
...I haven't really posted much anywhere else in a while.
 
@Shadow meta.stackexchange.com/a/340062/369802 < Any chance I could convince you to get rid of everything below the line break, so your post better meets 'note 2' from the question?
 
So. We have people coming to chat to contest deletion of comments beneath an answer by a moderator to a question contesting why a moderator suspended someone. sigh
 
9:57 AM
@Mithical oh... knitting.
 
(AKA, it would be more netural?)
 
It's a rep fest. :D
 
JAD
@Raedwald actually it's beneath an answer by a moderator to a question contesting why a moderator suspended someone for asking why someone was suspended.
 
Ugh. If I had yarn that tangled, I would just cut it instead of untangle ;)
 
heh
how does everone like my new avatar?
2
 
10:01 AM
@Tinkeringbell edited to make it more relevant. The personal story was indeed off topic.
 
JAD
@Magisch looks familiar
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Danke!
@Magisch Love it :)
It's good to have another bird in the room :)
 
@Magisch surely @Tink just love it! :D
So two parrots now.... wonder if it will spread?
 
@Magisch I'm thinking a mutiny in a room a long time ago and far away had much further ramifications than I anticipated at the time...
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Like bird flu :P
 
bird is obviously the word
 
Well red and green are part of the "base" colors. So we only miss a blue parrot, and we can make any color we want! :D
 
s/green/yellow
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I vote for having a bright pink parrot first ;)
 
Or purple (looks at @mith)
 
*squawks* I prefer a human form, others are too limited
 
@Tinkeringbell Super Sentai Parrots?
 
@Hitodama Looks a bit like power rangers? Sure :)
 
Perhaps you could differentiate how what is being asked here doesn't duplicate the "Why do you stay?" question and it's 37 answers. — Rob 1 min ago
@Rob I'm confused as to why you think that it would be a duplicate.
...wow that came out all messed up
 
I mixed up all the words when I originally sent the message.
 
@Magisch It's fantastic
 
You know you also ping Robert
 
No, it pings the two Robs, but not Robert.
 
10:08 AM
Trust me on that one, I speak for experience :P
 
robbery
 
If it's a full username match, it doesn't ping those for who it's only a partial username match.
 
Rob
We are in agreement, and he already wrote that he doesn't like it.
 
@Mithrandir24601 and I have experience
 
@Mithical oh.... nice.
 
10:09 AM
@Tinkeringbell to be fair, it is quite the opposite. Power Rangers show are actually made by cutting/paste various pieces from Super Sentai together.
See here
 
@Rob who doesn't like what?
 
In any case, Rob, I'm confused as to why you'd think it would be a duplicate. One is asking what you use Meta.SE for; the other is asking why people stay on the network. Quite distinct.
 
Rob
10:21 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard Apparently getting fooled tops the list.
 
@Rob heh, I was hoping you were inking to that and the song had already started playing in my head, but I was expecting to get rickrolled.
 
@Rob using the link most people already know by its code, -1 sloppy
 
@Magisch on an unrelated notice, I was wondering if you folks realized that the chicken now points to something far more noteworthy than last year. See here
 
We're no strangers to love...
 
Rob
@Mithical With 167+/2- votes, here is your answer: "Questions may be duplicates if they have the same (potential) answers.".
 
10:33 AM
@Rob I don't see how they'd get the same answers... at all.
 
Rob
I don't understand how you read that link in less than a second.
 
Huh. For the first time, I've just received an increase in reputation because a user was removed.
 
@Rob I didn't have to, I'm familiar with it. I've read it before.
 
@TRiG Start moderating a site :P
It'll happen more often then ;)
 
Rob
And I already answered your question in my first reply.
 
10:36 AM
@Tinkeringbell Does that cause a conflict of interest? ;)
 
@TRiG Not really. Users self-delete all the time, moderators only really delete spam accounts or very obvious socks (the less obvious ones are usually escalated to CMs).
Either of those often isn't the kind of user that consistently downvotes moderators ;)
 
SO still has a massive sock problem
 
That's ambiguous. It has many socks or just one really massive one?
 
no pairs.
 
JAD
And smelly at that
 
10:39 AM
50% wash rate.
 
JAD
but only those that get stuck in the door during washing, so they are still soaked afterwards
 
@djsmiley2k-CoW That needs to be sorted.
 
@TRiG I just buy the same socks, over and over and over.
So many dupes
 
@TRiG welcome to the club! ;)
@djsmiley2k-CoW my wife got three pairs of socks with colors that aren't 100% the same, "just" 99% or so. And those are black socks, with only a line of color on top. Takes me few minutes every time to match. It's a nightmare! :P
(might take a picture next time I do it)
Oh, and like 10 black socks with 100% same color, but bit different size.
 
haha
i have loads of socks which the colour is slightly different
I don't care tho, I'm willlllllllllllld
 
10:51 AM
@djsmiley2k-CoW my wife cares.... I'll face her Wrath if I'll be mistaken with the sock matching. :/
 
@ShadowThePrincessWizard use the old "It is not a mistake - it is Fashion, darling" technique.
 
@Hitodama I'll send you the divorce documents.
:D
 

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