Tavern on the Meta

410

00:49

Björk - Army Of Me

►

... only 200K views, because a lower-quality version comes up higher in Google search :(

Anyway, the video came up by association with some of recent events.

No need to say whom I picture in place of Björk here.

SmokeDetector

02:50

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body (96): Many people truely place their self assurance by dirk on askubuntu.com

SmokeDetector

03:07

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body (60): Learning Chinese language online with Ms Deng by Deng Xingmei on chinese.SE

ymb1

asked a question, was about to leave, an 800+ post caught my eye -- seems there's been a lot going on these days -- why don't lava hot MSE posts show under HNQ! (I feel bad asking my silly question now)

Shadow

03:48

Because meta sites aren't in HNQ

SmokeDetector

04:51

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, body starts with title and ends in url, pattern-matching product name in body, potentially bad ns for domain in body, potentially bad keyword in body, +1 more (296): Starch and two-fold sugars are broken down into single sugars by amari2ch on wordpress.SE

SmokeDetector

05:06

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +5 more (689): fitnessproductcenter.com/velofel/ by sanseein on graphicdesign.SE

rene

→ 42 messages moved to Chimney

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): What is the best solution to move from Outlook Express DBX files to Outlook? by jarvis jarvis on superuser.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer (60): How to split a large .tar.gz on a Windows machine to upload on a Linux server? by Harry Brown on serverfault.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user (71): What is the best solution to move from Outlook Express DBX files to Outlook? by jarvis jarvis on superuser.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title, +2 more (489): healthstoregems.com/velofel-new-zealand/ by user144107 on graphicdesign.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer (58): What is the best solution to move from Outlook Express DBX files to Outlook? by devicesupport on superuser.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body (99): What is Big Data Hadoop? by Dhanam Priya on meta.SE (@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog)

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, body starts with title and ends in url, pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad keyword in body (391): In any case, indeed, accept it as suggested, by sdghdfger on puzzling.SE

SmokeDetector

05:56

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +4 more (691): faqssupplement.com/brilliance-sf-крем/ by karishjotiosns on askubuntu.com

Journeyman Geek

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/334198/… needs a closevote, and a delete vote once done

rene

@JourneymanGeek needs 1 more

Journeyman Geek

Its done

Now I nap

SmokeDetector

06:14

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad ip for hostname in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (62): How to split .zip files and join them in Windows? by Harry Brown on askubuntu.com

john

07:23

@410 attributing a feminine gender to a generally undesirable animal is or will be a form of misgendering

user58

@john .....what.

john

<sub>For a first hit I won't flag it.</sub>

Optimus Prime

@john actually it's female mosquitoes that bites

john

@OptimusPrime one genus where this is not true and we're all wrong

smile, you're being judged by a future with no competence to judge your time

Optimus Prime

@john mosquitosquad.com/greater-dc/about-us/blog/2014/july/… They need blood to grow mosquito eggs in their stomach

Male won't lay eggs. So, they don't need blood

The first post in MSE regarding current situation is close to 1K votes.

john

07:35

@OptimusPrime what about a mosquito genus where male is preferred to bite and then pass blood to female when found a safe harbor place

Shadow

My sock got The Overflow o_O

Optimus Prime

@john when considering their body shape, I afraid they can't do liplock

@Shadow which's your sock

Wait.. I have a sock.

forgot it

Can't find it

Notice I lost my sock somewhere here. His name is bumblebee and he looks like this. If anybody find him, please inform

2

Shadow

@OptimusPrime to be honest, no idea. It's not my ordinary sock.

(which didn't get The Overflow)

I do remember creating a third sock once to test something but forgot how and what credentials.

@OptimusPrime I can smell your sock

Optimus Prime

@Shadow if you signed in to all mail address in android, gmail -> all inboxes -> from:stackoverflow may help

@Shadow really?

listening one of my fav song

96 Songs | The Life of Ram Video Song | Vijay Sethupathi, Trisha | Govind Vasantha | C. Prem Kumar

►

Shadow

08:20

@Bart agreed

@OptimusPrime nah I know the email, probably can retrieve it back but can't be bothered ;)

@OptimusPrime yes! :D

Shadow

10:01

@Oded hey good to see you here!

I agree with your comment about Stevve not letting that happen... looks like all the good people are gone from SE by now. You're among them, and the top was Jaydles.

He would have never let SE become what it became.

Crappy ads just stink, but kicking good people out in cruel ways and for absurd reasons is way worse.

Anyway.... we still have coffee to relax, even in those dark times.

!!/coffee Bart

SmokeDetector

@Shadow brews a cup of Macchiato for @Bart

Oded

It was already becoming it then. Unfortunately, this is the effect of being VC funded.

Shadow

@Oded but it's funded for years.... no?

user351483

!!/coffee Shadow

SmokeDetector

@Snow brews a cup of Mocha for @Shadow

user351483

10:06

Well hot shit - I love that feed.

Oded

@Shadow Sure, but after a few years... they want their money back.

Shadow

@Snow huh?

@Oded ohh... wait, you mean it was a loan??

40M, right?

Still, no amount of money justifies what they did to Monica, and that's the single thing that blacklisted the company in my eyes.

Oded

VC funds put money into companies with the expectation of making a profit within a few years. If that doesn't happen fast enough for them, they can influence a lot - to try to make the company profitable.

It is a deal with the devil.

Shadow

@Oded I see. This explains the evil ads.

Still... got nothing to do with the true shitstorm.

user351483

@Shadow Sorry - that's the first time I've seen this usage before. Surprised and delighted me.

Oded

10:09

The thing with Monica is a symptom of the priorities changing.

Shadow

@Oded really?? Please, explain. I have time. (Well, not now... later... but can read. ;))

@Snow oh you mean the coffee? lol

Oded

Focus is on making money, not on keeping a happy core community.

Shadow

!!/tea Snow

SmokeDetector

@Shadow brews a cup of green tea for @Snow

Shadow

@Oded no... still not that... it's basic and core human behavior which is at fault here.

Oded

10:12

Anything that isn't Stack Overflow (i.e. - the rest of Stack Exchange) is seen as a distraction.

user58

!!/blame᠎ ⁠

SmokeDetector

@user58 It's Joel Spolsky's fault.

Oded

Yep

Guy hadn't been at the helm for years.

Shadow

whaaat

oh

hehe @user58 you're genius. :D

@Oded I do wonder if Monica's ass kick was approved by him.

user58

I doubt that such a decision went that far up.

I would be surprised if the new CEO is unaware of the situation, though.

Oded

10:14

Agree. And he's really not involved much. And the new CEO? Is new.

Journeyman Geek

@Oded here's the frustrating part

stuff got a lot better

Shadow

If not, he's the only one who can somehow fix some of the damage by bringing her back and kicking out those who kicked her. But it won't happen.

Journeyman Geek

and was getting better

Shadow

was

Oded

I read the transcripts. Monica wasn't blameless, but the reaction was egregious.

Shadow

10:15

Like a train going uphill, then falling to the abyss.

@Oded oh you're still a mod?

Oded

Huh?

Shadow

@Oded it all happened in TL

user58

AHEM

Shadow

oh

user58

→ 1 message moved to Room for MSE Tavern RO's

Shadow

10:16

Still, surely not all of them.

Oded

The main bits - gives you enough context.

Journeyman Geek

People snitch

Oded

It was badly handled.

Journeyman Geek

I'd be surprised if folks who left in good standing didn't hear of it

Shadow

The main bits were mentioned across several posts in MSE too.

user58

10:17

...been trying to keep that under wraps for the most part. Really don't need more people searching for stuff they're not supposed to see.

Oded

The dirctor - came in, stated the new law and... silence, while the TL went into overdrive.

Journeyman Geek

@Oded I've kinda said this, directly, to anyone who would listen

Oded

No back and forth, no apparent inclination to reconcilliate different points of view (which is what mods do)

Journeyman Geek

that said, well

Shadow

@Oded Like throwing a burning match into ants hill and walking away.

Oded

10:18

Yep.

And then upping the ante by throwing fuel on it.

Journeyman Geek

as hard as it is - assigning blame and going "ITS THIS PERSON'S FAULT" dosen't work for our interests

its so easy for people to circle the wagons

The damage is done

The work here is to get it from getting worse

and trying to help folks stop it from happening again

Oded

I am just annoyed - this is a person that has zero (!) posts on MSE.

Shadow

MSE cause panic attacks for SE staff so....

Oded

The whole "listening to the community" seems to have gone.

Because people are not being honest and genuine. And when the community sniffs that...

Shadow

@Oded To be honest... even this wouldn't be a breaking point for me.

Journeyman Geek

10:20

@Shadow ...

user351483

@JourneymanGeek and showing that what happened and how it happened is unacceptable

Journeyman Geek

the past week was hell for me

@Snow it is

Shadow

@JourneymanGeek someone from SE said it directly in those words.

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow I've been in tears over this

and not always cause someone was an absolute dear and reminded me why I do this

user351483

I've had sleepless nights for almost three weeks thinking about this.

Shadow

10:22

@Snow "this" is... ?

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow ooh

so many things

Shadow

You mean the TL drama before it blew up?

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow oh man

lets get started

That we lost a few mods cause people were dumb and refused to use the correct pronouns

that no one noticed or did anything - and I do mean us too

the whole way this happened

user58

Just be careful. Not everything is public yet.

Journeyman Geek

what its doing to the community

Shadow

10:23

@JourneymanGeek That's the end, not the start... ?

Journeyman Geek

@user58 all this is public

@Shadow well something triggered this desire to refine the COC

Shadow

You mean mods resigned before all this started?

hmm

user58

@Shadow Yes.

...after this is all done, I'm taking a long vacation from all SE responsibilities...

Shadow

Well..... if someone will address me as "she/her" in comments or chat I'd not be happy about it and at some point will flag it. But suppose a mod is also involved in the comments/chat as third, neutral, party.... I would not expect that specific mod to handle it. I'd be totally fine with the mod staying away.

And from what I understand, the new policy is to force that mod to take active part.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in body (68): Which are some of the best software consulting companies? by Halcy Tech on meta.SE (@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog)

user58

10:27

@Shadow Not.... really.

M.A.R.

@Shadow I dunno, I didn't get it. I gathered even "they" wasn't good enough?

Shadow

Anyway it doesn't really matter....

@M.A.R. very true

M.A.R.

Part of me really wants to know that dirty little secret that's now in the mod-only room, but a bigger part of me is just too tired of this BS, honestly.

Shadow

"they" will be considered as direct insult when directed at someone who wants to be addressed as "he" or "she".

M.A.R.

I don't care anymore who's right or who's wrong or who I should be angry at. I just don't care.

Shadow

10:29

!!/care @M.A.R.

M.A.R.

@Shadow Brown!

user58

@Shadow It's... more nuanced than that.

Oded

The problem is that the policy is not clear and had not been made clear. Concerns have not been addressed in the least.

M.A.R.

See. So why the heck should I care.

Shadow

@M.A.R. you should not.

Oded

10:31

In the effort of protecting the feelings of a certain group, the feelings of another group have been completely set to the side. There's irony in that somewhere.

M.A.R.

Damage has been done. I'm usually an optimist but I don't think there's any return anymore.

Shadow

I also don't care yet.

@M.A.R. true

M.A.R.

@Oded Some of this has become too much of a religion for people, even more so than Abrahamic. Vicious cycle, people forget that others disagreeing with them also hold moral standards and even when past prejudice and exclusion is seen with hatred, new forms are being embraced.

Well, like @Journey says. Instead of shouting in the dark, light a candle and blow up the bar.

Oded

Ironic that the people who want to be included and who shout off rooftops about intolerance are themselves the ones who exclude and are intolerant.

Shadow

@Oded not sure that's the core issue but yeah, if it is, it sucks and ironic big time.

user194636

10:39

@JourneymanGeek Are you certain those are the best words you could have chosen there?

user58

Let's not dissect this more than necessary. Exact phrasing aside, people did indeed resign over this before this blew up.

Oded

Assumption of malice over assumption of best intentions. And overreaction by SE.

user351483

Yep. We all need to be pissing in the right direction moving forward - there's no need to make our shoes any wetter than they are right now.

Shadow

What if there's wind? :(

user58

I'mma link back to what I said at the very beginning of this. Most things are still not public, even if you've seen part of it. There have been ~20k messages in the TL about this in the past week, and a lot of relevant information is contained in transcript before this week anyway. Be wary of working without all the info.

Sep 28 at 20:21, by Mithrandir

There's a lot of complicated and nuanced stuff happening, mostly in private at the moment. Public speculation and discussion is really not going to be helpful at the moment; please respect that.

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

Oded

10:44

Of course it's like that.

But the silence from SE has been deafening.

10

user194636

@user58 That's not my point. The message will read to many as solely blaming Monica. I am fairly certain that was not JG's intent, so I pointed it out as gently as I was able.

user58

There's been some talk with staff in the mod spaces. But yes, I'll agree that they're not communicating well.

Oded

And they need to be communicating publicly. At the places where the community expects to be communicated with.

Shadow

@user58 really? They.... talk??

Oded

Being scared of MSE/MSO is a copout.

rene

10:46

A wild Oded appears ....

Shadow

rofl

Red Oded

Oded

Brown.

Shadow

eww

Oh not that brown

Oded

:D

Shadow

@JoshDarnell is here too! :P

M.A.R.

10:47

Brown is me

Shadow

No!

M.A.R.

You red.

Shadow

You purple

M.A.R.

Meh, I just made a general remark

Shadow

General is high ranking

M.A.R.

10:48

People take language way more seriously than they should in some aspects, and not seriously enough in all the others.

Shadow

@M.A.R. Too true.

M.A.R.

I should just make generally true general remarks.

Bananas are a source of uranium.

user271002

@M.A.R. uhm

M.A.R.

Er, I mean antimatter

user271002

better

M.A.R.

10:50

It's plutonium and antimatter

user271002

They go well together.

M.A.R.

It's a collusion

Shadow

Pluto is a nice dog.

M.A.R.

Space and rays and sh!t.

@Shadow You'll make Journey jealous

user271002

Journeyman Geek

10:52

@PaulWhite I was misquoted

@PaulWhite they are lyrics of a song

M.A.R.

By Journeyman Geek.

Journeyman Geek

It is better to light a candle than to curse the dark instead

Last ride of the day - by nightwish

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek said every David Beaty ever

Journeyman Geek

It's part of my 'this is not fine but I need to keep on going' playlist

@Oded MSE is hard

M.A.R.

I'm also part of that playlist

Journeyman Geek

10:55

But there are people willing to help

M.A.R.

ahem ahem cough clears voice Laaaaaaaaa!

Oded

@JourneymanGeek yes. But that's not a reason to completely avoid it.

M.A.R.

I'm such an opera . . . guy. Singer. Thing.

Oded

Programming is hard.

Journeyman Geek

@Oded and this is part of a broader conversation we need to get started if TPTB will listen

Oded

10:56

Dealing with large groups of people with different backrounds and wants and needs is hard. Always.

Journeyman Geek

@Oded it is

M.A.R.

No

Oded

And one can learn how to make such interactions... less difficult than they have to be.

M.A.R.

'Always' needs a mathematical proof. Nitpick of the week.

Oded

Always with the nitpicking.

Journeyman Geek

10:57

@Oded here's a fun thing

M.A.R.

And even a mathematical proof the interpretation of that mathematical proof.

Journeyman Geek

I know a few folks who have been absolutely heroic here

M.A.R.

Thanks, it's no big deal.

Journeyman Geek

I can't even acknowledge them without betraying their confidence

@Oded it is

M.A.R.

I'm such a modest person.

Journeyman Geek

10:59

But well

Andras Deak

@Oded I can't help but feel that all large actions by the company have only intended public appearance in mind, not actual inclusivity

Journeyman Geek

Jeff actually had a great foundation built for that

Andras Deak

Since the welcome wagon

Oded

@AndrasDeak I can see that. And it might just be lke that.

Andras Deak

:(

Journeyman Geek

10:59

Joel built on it

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