Tavern on the Meta

12:00 PM

it doesn't take too much cognitive power to separate them

A lot of mods stepping down have expressed that they don't agree with Monica's stance, but they disagree with how she was treated. If that's not separate than I don't know what is.

Shadow

@Magisch It's not that. Preventing a mod from stepping away from discussion when it directly contradicts with their personal beliefs is pure cruelty.

user194636

@AndrasDeak Let me clarify then. A clarification of the CoC led to a moderator being de-modded, and the way that was done led to a huge reaction. History will link the CoC to the drama I think.

Magisch

I'm sorry I even brought it up, I just felt the need to air my position on it for once to avoid any outward assumptions over where I stand

Erik A

The weird thing is: It's the internet. I only know the gender of someone if they choose to tell me or make it abundantly clear in a name/profile picture. If someone picks an ambiguous name and profile picture, I'm bound to either not use pronouns at all or use the preferred pronouns if I know them. I can't assume gender and pronoun based on looks

user194636

@Magisch That's fair, and I expect a large majority will agree. Perhaps after some discussion.

user194636

12:03 PM

Some - probably a small percentage - will never be able to accept it.

Magisch

I just wanted to put that out there on the off chance someone confuses my procedural misgivings with the whole affair with actual disagreement to the changes

user194636

@ErikA I don't think we are expected to guess correctly or never make genuine mistakes. The point is to use the correct pronoun, once someone has asked for that.

Andras Deak

@ErikA are you mostly active on SO? This might have some good points

it doesn't cover the whole story but a few good points anyway

OrangeDog

Hm, didn't expect CoC discussion to be allowed in here

user194636

It's the main topic on meta.se now?

OrangeDog

12:06 PM

But the SO room has it strictly banned

John Dvorak

Well, it won't be be once the hot-headed folks come in

user58

The Tavern hasn't yet had to be frozen. I'm hoping to keep it that way.

user194636

There are a few areas that I am still trying to get my head around.
For example, say someone raises a flag saying that a comment from another user used the wrong pronoun, and needs to be corrected.
Does that mean a moderator must edit the comment to replace the pronoun?

Andras Deak

@OrangeDog depends on the amount of average level of judgement

OrangeDog

@PaulWhite that would appear to be the logical conclusion

Andras Deak

12:08 PM

@PaulWhite that's kind of moot because the status quo is "comment was flagged? shaaaame"

user194636

@OrangeDog It would indeed. Perhaps SE will provide a user-visible revision history for comments. In any case, moderators will be doing something quite new.

Erik A

@PaulWhite If it's about comments that can't be edited by non-mods, that sounds perfectly fine to me. I'd be surprised if a mod didn't mark that helpful and honor it with the current CoC

user194636

@AndrasDeak Depends on the site. Certainly comments are disposable on many. For others, long comment chains with discussion are quite the norm.

Shadow

New candidate for breaking the lowest scored answer.

John Dvorak

Clarification: if mods start editing our comments behind our backs, are we going to be responsible for reading our comments each time, and if we miss a change, we're going to be persecuted? That would be unsustainable.

s/persecuted/prosecuted/

Andras Deak

12:15 PM

@PaulWhite true, I only use SO

user194636

@JohnDvorak Well all is speculation to some extent, but one would expect that genuine mistakes would be overlooked. Only patterns of obvious pronoun avoidance or misuse would become a moderation issue.

Andras Deak

@Shadow speaking of which, I do like the newish [staff] indicator

Shadow

@AndrasDeak sure, but that's just one drop of sugar on huge pile of poo.

user194636

@AndrasDeak There is an interesting general divide on the whole issue between technical and non-technical sites (generalizing somewhat).

Andras Deak

@Shadow I'm not sure what you mean

John Dvorak

12:16 PM

@PaulWhite on one hand, that is true. On the other, there is rising general fear that going by one's expectations isn't the safe route.

Mgetz

@OrangeDog I'm not a fan of that policy, it's incredibly chilling

Shadow

@AndrasDeak one tiny good change while there are numerous horrible changes all around.

Bart

@Shadow I like my poo sugary though

Andras Deak

@Shadow I wasn't implying that this change would somehow redeem the company. But pretending that everything can only suck is also a horrible fallacy.

Shadow

@Bart only when it's at least 2 spoons for each cup.

Magisch

12:18 PM

@Mgetz In the SO room we can't risk it. We're on the knife's edge of what goes there

And the discussion about it hasn't blown up in here (yet), so it can go for now

Mgetz

@Magisch set the room to moderated

Magisch

It's a public meta room. Not my call to make

John Dvorak

@Magisch I disagree we're on the knife's edge, but I do understand your fear wholly.

Andras Deak

@Mgetz if Magisch wanted to hands-on moderate the room he could've done that earlier. Respect his (and others') decision to prevent the discussion that needs hands-on moderation in the first place.

Mgetz

@AndrasDeak I was making a suggestion, please don't assume malicious intent

part of the problem right now is a lack of assuming positive intent

Magisch

12:19 PM

I too am just a volunteer. Between here and the meta room this kerfuffle has eaten most of my free time since monday

user194636

I don't recall the last time I had to use a pronoun at all on a technical Q & A site. But there are many non-technical sites. And chat.

Andras Deak

@Mgetz I'm not

user58

I get the feeling it's mostly relevant to chat.

Mgetz

your language indicates otherwise

John Dvorak

@user58 Good point

Shadow

12:20 PM

@AndrasDeak I agree. To be honest I could live with the changes, even with animated or viagra ads. I can't accept a place that treats its best people with such horrible, non human attitude.

Andras Deak

@Mgetz I apologize

@Shadow if they say they won't be animated viagra ads I dare you to ask "so where can I find them instead?"

Mgetz

@AndrasDeak accepted

OrangeDog

@PaulWhite I understand that at least some of the issues have occurred in mod chat, where certainly you'd be talking about other people

Rob

Maybe we should sugar coat the Viagra, instead of the poop

OrangeDog

Meanwhile sites like Christianity have objections based on subtly different things

Shadow

12:22 PM

@AndrasDeak when I'll need them in 60-80 years :D

user194636

@OrangeDog Yes, quite. Certainly chat will be an important venue. I do think that some main sites like IPS and ...er... WorldBuilding (?) will have a lot of fairly necessary routine pronoun use.

Anne Daunted

@AndrasDeak I agree. I don't see how Aza can be blamed for any of this. Stack Overflow Inc. is 100% at fault here and I neither believe that what they did to Monica was justified (neither that nor how they fired her) nor that it helped the cause they allegedly care about.

4

user194636

@john Didn't you post that in here earlier?

Magisch

lets be perfectly clear aza was never at fault here

respecting her experience is the least we can do in any case

Andras Deak

yes, that's what we're all talking about

rene

12:24 PM

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

Anne Daunted

Maybe some people didn't understand the difference between employees and volunteers. The former are usually ready to endure more because they get paid for it and, for example, have families to feed. The latter pay for it by sacrificng their free time they could've used to earn money instead.

Or perhaps they just don't care and believe that other people will moderate and in the long run it wouldn't make a change.

user194636

I've never felt like moderating is something I pay for exactly.

user194636

But yes, it seems SE are willing to pay any price at this point.
If that means replacing every moderator on the network, so be it.

Mgetz

@PaulWhite maybe we should

user194636

Should what? Feel like we're paying for it? Get paid for it?

Mgetz

12:28 PM

@PaulWhite actually pay for it

Rob

There's a meta about paying Mods.

user58

Of course there is...

user194636

@Mgetz I can barely afford NetFlix etc. as it is. Buggered if I'm paying to moderate SE 😀

M.A.R.

"user58" That's just showing off

Afternoon!

@Chris - "This all leaves me wondering if we've wasted our time investing so much in this company" - Absolutely, categorically, irrefutably not. Even if SO went offline tomorrow, the millions of users it has helped, the countless projects that it has delivered, the motivation it has given people to take on things outside their comfort zone knowing they had support if needed is phenomenal and cannot be undone. YOU, the mod team, the community, made that possible and shaped the world of I.T into what it is today. Even Rome fell but it's influence lives on. Your time has not been wasted. — RyanfaeScotland 21 hours ago

Shadow

58 is also ~~hot~~ comfortable , @M.A.R.

M.A.R.

12:30 PM

Oh hey look, I found another optimist.

@Shadow Nah even numbers suck.

Shadow

oh wait

M.A.R.

Should I anonymize myself, or would chat get confusing?

user58

@Shadow Are you saying I'm hot?

user271002

@M.A.R. again?

M.A.R.

I kinda feel like I'm asking the wrong question.

@Shadow The truth is out.

Shadow

12:31 PM

@user58 blonde moment. You're just comfortable.

user58

@M.A.R. I don't think you have anything to worry about, so...

M.A.R.

@Loong What do you mean "again"?

Andras Deak

@M.A.R. more than your baseline?

M.A.R.

@user58 Hey, there are only 80 million people in Iran.

Shadow

Show off

user271002

12:32 PM

@M.A.R. We have a book full of your previous user names.

M.A.R.

No u

Shadow

10 times more than Israel

M.A.R.

@Loong You will never know that I'm really aniline.

Whoops

@Shadow pwned.

user271002

@M.A.R. I could smell that.

M.A.R.

@Loong IUPAC's nomenclature of usernames.

Brown book.

@Loong Hey, it was @user58.

user271002

12:33 PM

… but not pronounce it in English.

M.A.R.

@Loong seriously? Out of all the oddities there are?

Uh, well, just go with the British

It's uncharacteristically simpler.

BTW, I changed my glasses and I don't look like a fake historian anymore.

@Shadow Fake blond.

e.

Rob

Aniline

Aniline is an organic compound with the formula C6H5NH2. Consisting of a phenyl group attached to an amino group, aniline is the simplest aromatic amine. Its main use is in the manufacture of precursors to polyurethane and other industrial chemicals. Like most volatile amines, it has the odor of rotten fish. It ignites readily, burning with a smoky flame characteristic of aromatic compounds. == Structure == Aniline is a slightly pyramidalized molecule, with hybridization of the nitrogen somewhere between sp3 and sp2. The amine is flatter than an aliphatic amine, owing to conjugation of the lone...

M.A.R.

@Rob Well, it's more like Ana-lean, no?

Shadow

@M.A.R. f.

M.A.R.

@Shadow g.

It would be interesting to analyze how much voting increased compared to how many more users participated in voting on meta.

It could be a good showcase (or rebuttal) of meta votes having a significant emotional aspect.

Rob

12:41 PM

@M.A.R. Yes.

M.A.R.

@Rob Thank you.

Shadow

Rob

Pressing the Speaker 🔊 pronounces the word.

Shadow

Who's the speaker?

M.A.R.

@Shadow That is an oddly placed nose.

Shadow

12:43 PM

It's not nice to press him/her.

@M.A.R. maybe it's not a nose

M.A.R.

Haha desperate times call for desperate jokes?

Shadow

Totally

M.A.R.

@Shadow Oh, a sniper targeting laser about to shoot?

I can never look at the image the same way again

Shadow

@M.A.R. no, it has a pink dot in the middle

Rob

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/…

Shadow

12:46 PM

No onebox for audio? :(

M.A.R.

@Shadow Definitely laser

Shadow

Little pink hole? Well... if that's what you want to think. :D

iBug

Everything looks like (Stack) Plague Inc. now, the new plague called "strike", developed by Stack Exchange, has spread.

M.A.R.

@Shadow . . . why you

@iBug What

Is anywhere else experiencing this?

. . . Good. Misery loves company. She definitely does.

iBug

@M.A.R. Spend 2 DNA points to enable animated ads, and your plague will spread faster :)

Shadow

12:52 PM

@M.A.R. yes I'm on strike too

M.A.R.

@iBug Oh, boring.

Shadow

Was REALLY hard to not close off topic question earlier.

iBug

only a matter of time before the plague spreads to all 173 ~~countries~~ sites

M.A.R.

I thought Facebook was finally facing its demise.

Well, apparently I haven't downvoted enough answers. Keep 'em coming.

Shadow

@M.A.R. you have it too, admit it

hmm....

M.A.R.

12:55 PM

Has anybody tried reaching out to SO through a Twitter account with cool-people influencer credentials but visibly zero investment in Stack Overflow except some expressions of disdain? Chances are a full statement will be forthcoming within 15 minutes 😄 — Pëkka 3 hours ago

Sigh when Pekka is being snarky, you really have pissed off people.

3

iBug

5 hours ago, by Journeyman Geek

As I understand - the big wider plan would be to get SE to IPO

M.A.R.

What's that, sounds like a health condition.

Are you programmers copying us.

Andras Deak

some money thing

iBug

Initial public offering

Initial public offering (IPO) or stock market launch is a type of public offering in which shares of a company are sold to institutional investors and usually also retail (individual) investors; an. IPO is underwritten by one or more investment banks, who also arrange for the shares to be listed on one or more stock exchanges. Through this process, colloquially known as floating, or going public, a privately held company is transformed into a public company. Initial public offerings can be used to raise new equity capital for companies, to monetize the investments of private shareholders such...

M.A.R.

> Initial public offering

Jinx.

You could just say that.

Anne Daunted

12:57 PM

@iBug Thanks! I thought it meant Ignore people's outrage.

M.A.R.

Now I'm sure you're trying to copy us.

TLAs FTW

I will CT your PAT.

eww

If they do this in preparation for an IPO, reaching tech press with this fiasco wasn't the best move in hindsight

iBug

1:01 PM

@ErikA they've already reached The Register lol

Shadow

If any remaining mod/diamond holder wants, this should be retagged to status-declined now. I'm not going to flag it.

John Dvorak

twitter.com/StackExchange/status/1179380777773076481

M.A.R.

Please, Jeff, come back! — Arjan Dec 26 '13 at 10:17

A very Atwoody response, that.

Sigh Images working again was what I wished for all this time to go back and contribute canonicals to main and meta sites.

@JohnDvorak text-pls

John Dvorak

> The @StackDesign
AMA with @uxpin
is starting in an hour, don't miss out!

Links to the chat rooms in their Meta post:

graphicdesign.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3663/… `

Shadow

8

Q: AMA with UXPin on on Wednesday, October 2nd, 4PM–6PM GMT+02

First Ask Me Anything will be on Wednesday, October 2nd from 4pm-6pm GMT+02 [9am EST] It will be with UXPin UXPin is a design tool you can use throughout the whole product creation process, including prototyping, collaboration, and handoff. You can use UXPin to create wireframes, UI des...

oh why yours didn't onebox? @John

M.A.R.

1:06 PM

@Shadow He wanted it not to take too much space

iBug

@M.A.R. Original

M.A.R.

Look at what rene has done to them.

They've become onebox haters.

john

@Shadow @JohnDvorak

iBug

@JohnDvorak FYI (raw) links still render in multiline messages

M.A.R.

Hiha ha.

John Dvorak

1:08 PM

@iBug I couldn't copy it as a single unit, so I didn't see any harm posting it in two messages

M.A.R.

Where are these ads people keep talking about? — random Oct 1 '09 at 1:19

A joke back then q_q

Journeyman Geek

I might be a bit busy today

New workplace

iBug

@JourneymanGeek or a new Workplace :)

user351483

@JourneymanGeek That's funny - I just left mine...

rene

lol

@Shadow no one-box here .. wait .. wrong room

M.A.R.

1:11 PM

Shh, don't ping @Journey. He's carrying huge servers now.

rene

Is it a Cray-1?

Shadow

@john oh yeah... not used to such a crowded room. Sorry.

M.A.R.

@rene Top secret man.

iBug

@M.A.R. Johnny English?

Shadow

@JourneymanGeek congrats! Better place?

M.A.R.

1:13 PM

@Shadow Don't worry, it looks the same to me.

Shadow

@M.A.R. more smelly

Too many feet.

M.A.R.

Except with triangular red eyes squinting at us.

From the corners

Looks around

Paranoia

mega6382

1:28 PM

morns

M.A.R.

@mega6382 afternoon

iBug

looking forward to Surface Pro 7

Journeyman Geek

@Shadow different place

user351483

Shadow

2:03 PM

status-shadow-on-a-strike

user351483

There's a ghost in Workplace Meta. The previous election post just got bumped by Community. Maybe it's trying to tell us something.

Magisch

@Snow The robot says they should call up DarkCygnus

user351483

I guess talk of elections/moderators will likewise bump election metas on other sites as well.

Magisch

Thats actually a good point I'd like to know what exactly caused this bump

seems like some relatedness algo gone awry

Shadow

@Magisch zero scored answer

It's like that for years, no bug.

user351483

2:08 PM

Relatedness is probably working. This might be due to a recent post on Main Meta asking about recent elections.

Magisch

did someone downvote the answer recently?

Andras Deak

Or up workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/posts/5953/timeline

Shadow

@Magisch maybe user being deleted caused the single upvote to be gone

It was at 1 today: workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/posts/5953/timeline

(so it won't also show in the timeline)

Magisch

hrm

what a strange series of incidents

Shadow

Yup

410

2:45 PM

not surprised to see they are sticking around that long now.

Bart

@Glorfindel Done

Except the last one which needs 1 more

Glorfindel

thx

Optimus Prime

Don't know why Tim deleted the MSE post which ask everyone to go on strike against MSE. ( Thanos used the stones to destory the stones 🤷🏻‍♂️)

Erik A

It's fair. MSE doesn't have to be a platform to raise support for actions against SE the company.

2

410

14

A: How many moderators are there on SE?

568 according to this snippet I plugged into my browser's developer console when sorted by users. document.querySelectorAll('.mods-container>.mods-item').length Thanks to Mark's answer for the tip to sort by users for better deduplication!

Erik A

2:53 PM

You can call that censorship, I call that common sense

410

It's both.

Journeyman Geek

There's another thing

john

I've been censored at GitHub, and I call that common sense.

410

That number 568 is familiar.... where is @bjb now?

Journeyman Geek

Well I would assume the community team is trying to fix it

They would need to try to limit the damage

Bart

2:54 PM

I don't understand why anyone would expect SO/SE to host such content in the first place.

410

Also, if 568 people, most of whom we don't know from Adam, have access to a chatroom, I would not expect the content of said chatroom to stay private.

Journeyman Geek

@Bart cause people misunderstood the concept of freedom of speech

@410 and yet it has been so far

john

It's just stupid to criticize SE in SE considering how there's no criticism in e.g. #stackoverflow at Freenode (checked).

Bart

@JourneymanGeek ooooh, you're poking a pet peeve there ... "but muh freedom of speech" ... yeah, does not mean what you think it means :D

Shadow

@OptimusPrime I agree that one was over the edge. It's one thing to say you're on a strike but asking others to do it is not nice. You're still a guest on the site, you should give basic respect even if you hate its guts.

rene

3:02 PM

@Glorfindel all done

dim

Did Yvette just destroyed her account on the main meta?

rene

@Shadow Oh? We don't own the place?

@dim that is the second time then?

dim

@rene Second time? What do you mean?

Oh, I see, she just changes her name: meta.stackexchange.com/users/310756/i-dont-want-to-participate

Well, still...

rene

@dim she had one, went away for a long time, came back.

@dim she said in the Meta room that she got some unpleasant comments. I can imagine she tries to make it a bit harder to find her.

Anne Daunted

@rene The 3rd time then? She also did that when she was suspended.

410

3:09 PM

A sensible strategy for most.

rene

I lost track I guess

410

Using my full name with the first SE account was the stupidest thing I did on SE.

(and I did plenty of stupid things)

rene

yes

Anne Daunted

That's why it's even worse how they treat Monica.

john

Nope, there you are confusing the fact with the amplified consequences.

Which were bootstrapped by her and Gilles.

Bart

3:14 PM

@410 that's why I only use half my name. Nobody will figure out the rest ... unless they visit my profile I guess.

rene

@john are you saying that being handled disrespectful afterwards is okay?

Aibobot

uhm

hiiii

john

@rene have there been any further actions against Monica after the firing?

rene

@john I assume she has seen "comments", no?

john

/away afk

gotta go now

410

3:22 PM

@john This tone-deaf post judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5197 is adding an insult to injury.

Anne Daunted

For sure, there's a difference between a director of communication publicly branding X of refusing to abide by the CoC (purpose "foster kindness, collaboration, and mutual respect") when X is either someone's actual name or something anonymous like user1234.

410

Especially combined with how the same person, speaking to the Register, shared the details that would not be shared in the meta post.

Anne Daunted

@410 Because that's confidential and sharing it on SE is taboo, but in The Register it's fine.

Bart

Although to be frank, those details had since some out in the variety of posts all over the network. It's not as if The Register revealed what we did not yet know.

OrangeDog

@Bart that's not the point

I had not noticed this before
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/334133/stack-exchange-staff-speaking-to-the-press-instead-of-the-community#comment1091992_334133

user351483

3:32 PM

The thing that still grinds my goat is that moderators have a policy of giving users a "cooling off period" when they break the CoC. It takes something huge to earn a permanent ban. Monica wasn't even given the opportunity to "cool off" over Sabbat and Rosh Hashana. If that had happened, there might have been some more considered and respectful discussion on either side.

Magisch

@Snow have you read tim's latest comment about this?

user351483

There's been a comment? I must have missed that, been walking the dogs.

Magisch

@Aza I think us doing something in a way that was obviously going to cause a significant backlash surrounding both the action we took and the perceived lack of planning, management and communication violated people's expectations in ways that they didn't think were possible. That we proceeded anyway is significant. That we'll continue will be significant. The end ideal result is when people are able to take actions like the one you took, and connect them with our reaction, in a way where our reaction was the best conclusion. If that makes sense. — Tim Post ♦ yesterday

Aibobot

uhm

Damn

user351483

Yes, my expectation was sure violated. A lot of things were violated.

Magisch

3:38 PM

My takeaway from this is that they knew what would come but considered the matter important enough to proceed anyways, and stand by that decision

410

@Magisch Translation: we are heroes.

Significant ones at that.

user351483

Don't forget that Tim was out of office at that point.

OrangeDog

Everyone's the hero of their own story

user351483

Homelander: You're all the heroes.

Anne Daunted

They try to create the impression that they care about people but their actions show that they don't and are ready to throw anyone and everyone under the bus if that suits their goals.

user194636

3:42 PM

@Snow why is that important?

OrangeDog

@PaulWhite because he is not personally part of the "us/we"

user351483

@PaulWhite Because I don't know how much of a decision was in Tim's hands. For all I know it was a case of "Let's do this before Tim comes back so that he doesn't have to deal with it".

user194636

@Snow thanks

user351483

But that's conjecture on my part.

user194636

all is conjecture

user351483

3:44 PM

Without facts, it's all we have.

user194636

largely because SO/SE refuse to make a clear public statement

Draken

They're not refusing per say, they're probably taking a long time to think about it and put it correctly. Unless you have a link showing they have said they will say no more on the topic?

Anne Daunted

@Snow But it seems like no one feels that they have to deal with it. See Sara's copy-pasted, short boilerplate answers to resignations (and the firing).

john

(mobile now) they shouldn’t write her name in press, unless they are sure it’s a fake name

user194636

@Draken it's latin, per se

user351483

3:45 PM

The devil on my shoulder is telling me to write a Meta on "How the Monica Situation should have been dealt with".

Draken

Are you on the register article? Because it sounded like they communicated to her directly and had quotes. So I'd assume they cleared which name they could use

Bart

Stop listening to that devil, wait for the official response if it comes, and then decide what you do. It doesn't seem like the situation would benefit from any more content about it.

user351483

I know. And I'm sure that SE knows how they should have handled this.

Draken

The issue is, do we have a deadline when they will reply?

user194636

I heard 6-8

user351483

3:47 PM

months

Mgetz

@Draken no technically

OrangeDog

Snow unless you have full view of what the "Monica situation" is then you cannot say how it should've been handled. And if you do you still cannot reveal enough of it in order to justify your opinion.

Bart

They will reply when they will reply. Stop refreshing your browser. Go do something useful with your time. Hug a tree, water a puppy. Whatever.

Shadow

@rene just the base

;)

Draken

@Bart *If they reply

user194636

3:49 PM

It's hard to imagine how any official reply would be in their best interests

Bart

As you wish @Draken. If they don't, that's a message as well. See what you do with it.

user194636

I'm sure they'll release a clarified CoC in due course

john

Well, Register shouldn’t have written about neither Cellio, not even Chipps.

user194636

Well Sara is at least a senior figure in a company that has publicly released statements

user351483

I'm surprised it's only the Register to be honest.

user194636

3:52 PM

It may not be all that 'exciting' to the outside world

Shadow

They refer to all those posts as "soapbox", well, at least Shog.

john

No matter if one’s for or against current moral pronoun trends, one should avoid assigning neither of the choices to neither actor; because there’s no universal agreements on that matter and some of the opinions might be punishable in some countries of the world.

Writing real names might be contributing to some future execution.

Bart

@Shadow you've got to admit that after the umpteenth post on the subject, there's not much value in another "I'm upset as well, hear me roar". Of course it's not up to me to determine where that cut off is, but it does get soapboxy ...

3

user194636

I imagine the number of soapboxes needed is directly proportional to the depth and breadth of feeling on a particular matter

OrangeDog

Or the amount of soap you need to transport

user194636

4:00 PM

That too

user194636

TPTB don't seem to be moderating any but the most extreme content so that seems like tacit approval for venting to me

Bart

Suspension in 3 ... 2 ... :p

user194636

Old shog would have done that for comedy value alone

Bart

How does one productionize though?

Erik A

I imagine one takes a product and hits it with ionizing radiation

Bart

4:04 PM

Productionization sounds like something you learn about at a seminar.

OrangeDog

"make ready for production"

user194636

4:19 PM

sounds performant

OrangeDog

@john the triple negative hurts my head

ymb1

4:42 PM

y'know when one flags a post LQ, and someone reviews it and chooses Edit, corrects a minor thing that doesn't make it not-LQ, and ends up kicking it off the review queue -- any MSE post about that? search not cooperating atm

Journeyman Geek

@Bart from experience it's puppies that water you

@Bart yup

Rubiksmoose

Hey folkx, just asking to learn here but is there a specific reason why this question wasn't just migrated to MSO?

410

(1) Because the OP is suspended there, migration would fail.

user58

You can't migrate a question to a site where the OP can't post.

410

(2) It would not add value to MSO anyway

Rubiksmoose

4:52 PM

Ahhhh. That makes sense.

Thanks :)

Journeyman Geek

@Rubiksmoose I wouldn't have

The goal isn't the get an answer. Its to get a platform to complain

Andras Deak

"Don't migrate crap"

410

@motosubatsu I believe it's because snow put featured on, but snow had already resigned. Another mod will need to put the featured tag back on who isn't an employee or already resigned. — opa 3 hours ago

Some flimsy logic that would be.

Especially on TWP that has no active mods left.

user58

5:08 PM

That's the way it's been working.

410

> It's a little secret just the Robinson's affair
Most of all you've got to hide it from the kids

OrangeDog

if there are no active mods to feature it, there are also no active mods to handle all the reports that featuring it will bring

410

So cover-up is the solution then.

If there are no active mods to handle flags, there is no CoC enforcement either.

(apart from rare N flags occasions)

The site should be in read-only mode then.

Rubiksmoose

@JourneymanGeek Yeah that makes sense. I wasn't thinking about it in that context.

410

There are at least three TWP posts in HNQ right now, with all the flags that they bring

Magisch

5:19 PM

@410 the CMs have taken over that duty, but flag handling is obviously slower

It seems quite a predicament what to do now, the most likely being proabably that they'll call in mods from other sites pro-tem

More likely site quality on TWP will significantly deteriorate until new elections are held

user58

*sigh*

It'd be kind of rude to the community there to go intentionally stir things up when you know very well there are no active mods. Let's not even be snarky about that.

Magisch

@410 No, it wouldn't

the mess is big enough without intentionally adding to it

410

Was meant to be more of gallows humor than snark.

> Hi, reader in the U.S., it seems you use Wikipedia a lot; that's great!

This ... makes me less likely to contribute, tbh.

I know there are tracking cookies and stuff, but they don't have to rub it in.

(I do have a recurring contribution set up, but apparently there is no cookie for that)

Magisch

Wikipedia has like 25 euros a year from me, solely out of spite because they don't run ads and I want to send a message supporting that

Andras Deak

too late

Journeyman Geek

5:39 PM

@Magisch uhm

That would be tricky

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek Alternative would be no mods for at least some months

I can't imagine them scheduling an election right away

Andras Deak

Can't they just give diamonds to some of the people from marketing and design?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

If you have an account on Wikipedia, there's a setting in your user profile to suppress the donation banner (presumably because you're now supporting them in kind)

John Dvorak

@AndrasDeak eugh

Mgetz

5:55 PM

@Magisch just let smokey mod it

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