Tavern on the Meta

00:07

@MSOGA It's not a common name here; I've never heard of it. But I normally use "they" (as I did in the last message); I don't know why I didn't for some reason.

user302202

01:16

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Not my fault, it's the day...

user302202

Gloomy Sunday - Billie Holiday

►

Journeyman Geek

02:26

I have an odd feeling about this question meta.stackexchange.com/questions/325026/… - it feels kinda oddly specific

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

05:36

!!/watch missayisha\.in

SmokeDetector

@SonictheWizardWerehog You don't have code privileges, but I've created PR#2669 for you.

Bookends

06:49

"Bumped out from the room" morning

Tinkeringbell

07:17

Morning!

Journeyman Geek

AFTERNOON!

It appears we have thunder too

Tinkeringbell

Just a bit of rain here.

But it's okay, I arrived at the carpool before it started ;)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

07:40

@JourneymanGeek Ivan Lilich spam

Who the heck is Ivan Lilly BTW?

It's 11 a.m. here, so . . . mofternoon

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ mom ter noon

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I don't think its spam

Shadow Wizard

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek It is spam if they're trying to sell me Ivan Lillich

Journeyman Geek

SOme guy who feels the modern acedemic/schooling system is harmful

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ hm. They arn't. Yet

I think cody's answer kinda indicates its on topic

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

07:43

I want the liver

Shadow Wizard

eww it's full with toxins

Journeyman Geek

hm. Sure you don't want another kidney?

Maybe a spleen?

Shadow Wizard

I want the little finger.

I have plans for it.

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ My concerns are a bit more nuanced

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

> Modern medicine is a negation of health. It isn't organized to serve human health, but only itself, as an institution. It makes more people sick than it heals.

Journeyman Geek

07:45

but Philosphy.se will have to deal

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ ...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Self-righteous sonofabich

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I had an uncle who didn't trust doctors.

He dropped dead.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I wonder what he'd have said if said institution saved his life after a kidney failure

Journeyman Geek

Bit of a shock, apparently a heart attack

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek at least he didn't harm others, like those who oppose vaccines do.

Journeyman Geek

07:46

Meanwhile my dad basically had 4 clogged arteries, and one doc went "Don't be an idiot" and the other told him when asked how many bypasses he will do...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I guess it doesn't get much better when a philosopher talks about medication

Journeyman Geek

"Oh, we're opening you up anyway... so... as many as we find"

(I'm lucky to have an awesome family GP ;p)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Haha how far down did they go?

Or is it in?

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek Good genes! lol

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Well, kidney problems lost their might in my eyes

But everything else would still freak me out

Journeyman Geek

07:48

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ 4

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard Graviil Petrov is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I was nice, I showed them the way out with a smile.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Can I confess to something? I haven't read CoC yet

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ me neither.

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I kinda nuked him

I did.

Shadow Wizard

07:50

@JourneymanGeek well guess as mod you ought to, as you're expected to handle those who act against it. ;)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek So is that nice and welcoming? I'm thinking more of an Ebony Maw way.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard well I also had some input on the original version and am critical of how some people use it

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Said something like "rejoice in the fact that your sacrifice will help the universe in a weird way"

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek You mean rant about closing/downvoting their questions, using the CoC as a shield?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard the COC should be a shield

to protect folks

Shadow Wizard

07:51

"They closed my question, it's not nice!1! Nuke them all!!1!"

Journeyman Geek

not a bludgeoning stick

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@JourneymanGeek Apply gently only to hurt skin

Never massage. Never.

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek from downvotes? Don't think so.

And if it will come to this, I won't be part of SE.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard from abuse

Shadow Wizard

(e.g. if downvotes will be removed)

@JourneymanGeek thing is, many (most?) people consider downvotes as abuse.

Even long time users.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

07:53

That would make no sense

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard and that's a fundamental problem

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek indeed.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I love the term "angry downvotes"

Would have been a hit mobile game

Journeyman Geek

One of the tricky SE problems is...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

But the birds stole it

Shadow Wizard

07:54

So they expect the CoC to protect them from downvotes and when it doesn't... they think it's useless and we're back in base 1.

Journeyman Geek

We're fundamentally a platform that tries to avoid needing to deal with the social aspects of things

And well

least for SO - its big enough that people want to bend it to their point of view ;p

(and honestly - SO would survive without downvotes. or quality control...)

It would be horrible though

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

It'd be like r/memes

6

Q: Doubts in understanding some concepts of potential energy

Let us consider a system of charges in space. The potential energy of the system of charges is determined by the amount of work done by the external force to assimilate the charges in that manner. But what is the potential energy of a particular charge in that system of charges? Does that questio...

Journeyman Geek

well - or Quora or Yahoo answers

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Meta title is meta

Journeyman Geek

is the latter dead yet?

And essentially...

"I want in on $successful_thing, but I don't want any of the things that made it what it is, or to engage with the people who got it this far"

ON THE OTHER HAND, there's folks who're too focused on circling the wagons too

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

07:58

OMG ON WHICH HAND

Journeyman Geek

the one that is the other other hand.

That one over there...

Shadow Wizard

The left right hand.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard we have a running joke about my inability to tell right from left...

I have a post it on my desk with LEFT <---- -----> RIGHT (OTHER LEFT!)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I'm like that about East and West

We have East and West Azerbaijan provinces here, I always have to double check which one is the one on the left

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek well, part of your overall problem with its and it's, no? All due to same "bad sector" in your brain...

I guess? ^

Journeyman Geek

08:01

ooh

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Or genes

Journeyman Geek

vaguely!

Shadow Wizard

But one can live with that, so all is good. :D

Journeyman Geek

So, I was born a leftie

they forced me to switch to a rightie in school

Shadow Wizard

I'm left handed too.

Journeyman Geek

08:01

that kinda ...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Now you write with your middle hand?

Journeyman Geek

I don't say it made me dyslexic, but made the effects of it worse

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek oh, that can cause trouble, yeah.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Writing is so 2500 BC

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ pretty sure people actually do it.

Feel free to Google it.... :P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

08:03

It's the age of autocortex and crabby speak recognition

@ShadowWizard I, uh, don't

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard I actually think a good way to describe dyslexia is...

your input's faulty

so your brain overclocks to process it

you can, however clean up the input first

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Ear plugs

Journeyman Geek

so pick fonts that are distinct

so your brain isn't going whether its a d or a b

or a o or a 0 or a O

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

or or or Or or our

Journeyman Geek

or its and it's ;p

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

08:07

An alternative is to use one of them calligraphic fonts with lots of ligatures and what-not

You won't be able to tell the difference between MAR and LLLLLLL but no one else will be able to either so it's fine

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Fractur is the tool of the devil ;p

Shadow Wizard

I replied to Jeff tweet.... luckily he has no diamonds anymore. :D

(kind of disagreed with what he said)

Journeyman Geek

heh

I did that. On site meta ;)

Shadow Wizard

lol

Journeyman Geek

Ages ago

On a subject he's passionate about.

Shadow Wizard

08:15

hehe and Pekka liked it.... :P

Bookends

10:00

I'm alive?

Tinkeringbell

That's good, right?

Bookends

Yeah, it was like... there was a meeting around 1 hour ago, and I don't remember it at all

Tinkeringbell

Hmmm. That was a good meeting :P

Journeyman Geek

10:17

@Bookends Its entirely plausible this is some flavour of the afterlife

→ 37 messages moved to Chimney

user302202

13:16

If there are no more SO nominations in the next 6 hours, the 11th SO election will set a new record for the lowest number of nominees (11).

user302202

Current record: 12, held jointly by elections 8 and 9 (Fall 16, Summer 17). Not that there was anything wrong with the outcome of those two.

user302202

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Always Be Closing, Downvoting, Editing, Flagging... need a new feature beginning with G.

Feeds

14:01

Terms I'm going to start using: The Large Dipper, great potatoes, the Big Hadron Collider, and Large Orphan Annie.

John Dvorak

I like this version of a Venn diagram. The next version of Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes should definitely use it.

user302202

14:26

I had to count to make sure all 32 possibilities are represented. Never saw this thing before.

user302202

Wonder if there are versions for 6, 7, ... if it's formed by a single rotating shape, it must be pretty complicated.

user302202

It doesn't work for 6 - or for 4, for that matter. We need (2**n - 2) to be divisible by n, because after removing the center region and the unbounded region, the rest have to come in multiple of n by way of n-fold symmetry.

user302202

>>> [(2**n-2)/n for n in range(1, 11)]
[0.0, 1.0, 2.0, 3.5, 6.0, 10.333333333333334, 18.0, 31.75, 56.666666666666664, 102.2]

user302202

So the sequence of candidates is Positive integers n such that 2^n == 2 (mod n)

user302202

BTW it turns out to be really hard to find n such that 2**n is congruent to 3 mod n. The smallest is 4700063497 and only a few others are known.

Bookends

14:53

Whoa, Maths on the Meta @_@

Shadow Wizard

15:13

But no Meth. :(

ArtOfCode

15:29

probably a good thing, that

scohe001

15:48

eyeballs-required | meta.stackexchange.com/a/325047/232439

Shadow Wizard

@scohe001 you mean NAA flags

Cast one flag and one delete vote.

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard you've got Mith though

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir hmm... "Mith, the master of Math and Meth"? :D

Mithrandir

Wrong on both counts.

scohe001

@ShadowWizard meh too late for me to edit that message now. Besides I'm reasonably sure eyeballs == flags on SE when a post is low quality :P

Shadow Wizard

15:51

Just don't get attracted to Moth too much and all is good. :P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mithrandir Can't smoke you man

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ smoked meat is just overrated

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard I doubt he has any meat left after preparing for army tests

More like gunpowder from bones

user302202

@Namaste: I'm not afraid to tell Shog9 that he's holding a grudge. I don't know the first thing about what you are talking about, so if you send a ticket, I'd be happy to look at it. No, I'm not completely unbiased, but I think I can be somewhat objective. Maybe it would be good to have some sort of third-party ombuds, but we don't have one right now. — Jon Ericson ♦ 17 hours ago

user302202

Isn't Twitter kind of third-party ombuds?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:54

@scohe001 Hmm, fair point. Some posts do make my eyeballs wave in the wind

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ he didn't prepare, just went to see doctors. I prepared, actually. lol

scohe001

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ right! Some definitely make me want to burn my eyeballs in protest

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@MSOGA What the frog is going on there . . .

user302202

> if you can't get beyond these paid employees' biases, don't ask me to waste my time. It's time some objective SE employee(s) contact me.

user302202

Sounds promising.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

15:57

The guy's wasting their time by asking not to waste their time while they're wasting devs' time in the first place

It's so ironic it's copperic

Shadow Wizard

Metalic

user302202

Incidentally, this is also a part of my job (hearing complaints against my colleagues). I never knew what monsters I work with.

Shadow Wizard

Surely nobody got anything bad to say about @g3rv4! :P

user302202

I could try but I prefer to earn my suspensions by other means.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard His picture is so small. There

Bookends

16:04

@MSOGA not sure if it's about another user's suspension or his/her suspension...

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ your nose is blue

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

:O

Bookends

@Blueeeeee

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

YOU DIDN'T

Shadow Wizard

lol

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

16:05

My nose is actually red now

And an effing waterfall

Shadow Wizard

eww

Stop drinking through your nose then.

You're misusing your body parts.

:D

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Which is bad because cold kills the kidneys

Bookends

kidneys kill the cold???

Shadow Wizard

Kid neys the cold.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Kills kidney the colds

@ShadowWizard I have nothing to say to a neysayer

Huh, smart spammer or legit user?

user302202

16:09

133 rep on UX site, so I'll go with legit

Bookends

The user has 133 rep on... ninja'd

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Ha, I want a ninja.SE

People would post answers sooner than you post your question

user302202

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Martial Arts

user302202

Specifically ninjutsu tag

user302202

> A specific set of skills of or related to the acts of espionage, stealth, counter-intelligence, and assassination.

user302202

16:14

There is so much useful knowledge on SE.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

How do they decide who's the winner in international competitions?

Play hide and seek and the fighter that gets found last?

user302202

Only 9 questions, with hardly any practical information on the subjects of espionage, stealth, counter-intelligence, or assassination.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Well, I'm not entirely sure JFK's killer knew Nonjutsu

user302202

You can learn a lot more about that on SO.

user302202

0

Q: R: Creating binary variable based on text content of factor variable

I have a dataset of 250 assassination attempts on leaders of nations over the course of 120 or so years. One column labeled "result" which contains a brief blurb about what happened to the target in each case, with values such as "hospitalization but no permanent disability", "dies within a day a...

r

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

16:16

Nonjutsi

Ninjustsi

Is it racist to think all East Asian words are the same?

Bookends

No

njutsi

user302202

Remember when sites had useful blurbs in Google search results?

user302202

By now someone at Google should have learned to filter GDPR stuff out.

Bookends

Shadow Wizard

16:34

lol

user302202

LinkedIn suggestions can be outright cruel. "Congratulate X on Y years at Z" when Z is their graduate school and Y is an embarrassingly large number...

user302202

Or when Z is their internship that actually ended as those things do, the anniversary only highlighting almost a year of unemployment.

g3rv4

16:50

@ShadowWizard if people don't complain about me it's only because nobody really knows what I do. And I intend to keep it that way :P

user302202

17:22

It's convenient to manage multiple calendars in Google Calendar app. Except when you don't pay attention to the selected calendar and create an event like "haircut" that shows up on the front page of your organization (its web calendar syncs via Calendar API).

user302202

I suppose it could be worse.

Bookends

"Resignation day"

or... anything romantic

user302202

Like "venereologist appointment".

user302202

0

Q: Language Learning.SE is not a bad question toilet

Historical context : Please stop using SoftwareEngineering.SE as your toilet bowl A question was recently migrated from Linguistics to Language Learning, possibly under the impression that language-specific questions are acceptable there. According to Language Learning.SE's help center, "Questi...

discussion off-topic-questions moderation migration

user302202

Some question toilets are better than others. LL is a good one.

Eleeza

17:37

I kinda just came here to see whats happening

Bookends

Nothing to see here :)

Eleeza

ok

Bookends

That said, it's already late and I'm starting to get sleepy~~💤

Eleeza

I have competitions and humanised SE logo characters to make

Mithrandir

17:54

Sounds interesting.

Eleeza

Actually the idea came when I was doodling on ms paint but it still looks cool

user302202

@Bookends There's more math underneath that... Turns out, a rotationally symmetric Venn diagram for n sets exists if and only if n is a prime number. This was proved pretty recently, in 2004. (More precisely: the necessity of n being prime was long known; the sufficiency is hard.) Survey article

user302202

A picture from that article: a symmetric Venn diagram for 7 sets.

Tinkeringbell

Oooh, reminds me of spirograph!

Pretty :D

user302202

18:27

20

A: Difference between storing an ObjectId and its string form, in MongoDB

I, personally, blame your code. I get around this pefectly fine in my applications by coding the right way. I convert to string in code to compare and I ensure that anything that looks like an ObjectId is actually used as a ObjectId. It is good to note that between the ObjectId (http://docs.mong...

user302202

Today's example of "SO is toxic" from a ... 3rd party ombud.

user302202

Conveniently omitted context: the question contains

user302202

> and tho my code is certainly partially to blame, I mostly blame mongo for making this so weird.

Bookends

Looks like 20k+ rep having fun with each other

user302202

19:13

John E Gatewood

@JohnEGatewood1, California, USA

CEO of Stack Overflow, co-founder of Fog Creek Software (Glitch, FogBugz), and creator of Trello. 🙂

62 tweets, 143 followers, following 2.3k users

user302202

Hmm, that description.

rene

What? Joel Spolsky is a sock of Gatewood?

user302202

19:56

Notice how you never see Joel Spolsky and John E Gatewood in the same room?

Adam Lear

🤔

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

OK crap, I just realized it's going to be hard again deciding three worthy candidates out of the current 11

But the tree guy is definitely my first choice

user302202

primaries.charcoal-se.org

user302202

20:20

Unix Election Overflow:

user302202

(I upvoted one post and downvoted the other.)

rene

caching?

user302202

They are different posts, with different Post Ids: 5243, 5244

rene

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ why is it hard? You think there are no 3 candidates worthy among those 11?

weird

race condition or did someone double clicked on the election button?

user302202

20:32

Remembering that #1 and #2 in the primary round are 10/10 in getting diamonds, and that there are only 2 diamonds being given out... looks like the election is over.

user302202

16

Q: Updating the Hot Network Questions List - now with a bit more network and a little less "hotness"!

Some of you may have noticed that we've been making some changes to the Hot Network Questions on the back end over the last week or so. I'm here announcing our first round of changes to how the HNQ works and give you some ideas of why we're starting here and where we're planning to go in the futu...

discussion featured hot-questions announcements

Tinkeringbell

Yay! Thanks @AdamLear :D

Adam Lear

:)

user302202

> Q: "How would you have changed StackOverflow if you started it today?" @spolsky : "I would have made comments disappear after 7 days. Everything that is bad in SO happens in the comments." Interesting StackOverflow thoughts in @WixEng with @spolsky pic.twitter.com/Pq36t1sV1z -- Yuval Perry at 4:39 PM - 11 Mar 2019

Shog9

20:48

10 years late, but still a good idea

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@rene No, there are more than 3

user302202

Well if there was another way to say "this answer does not actually solve the problem described in the question, but is being upvoted by hordes of people who have a different problem and are landing here from Google".

Anne Daunted

On stackexchange.com: "No questions found."

user302202

Temporary filter malfunction, happens to me often.

Anne Daunted

thx

I looked at the newly featured post but didn't find that among the new features

rene

21:07

@Shog9 that's ... one delete statement in the 03:00 UTC job ...

Bart

Can we not just delete users after 7 days?

Adam Lear

21:21

@AnneDaunted we've optimized the list so much that now it's empty :P

(but also there's a bug that I'm building the fix out for right now)

Anne Daunted

21:38

@AdamLear Sounds great :-)

user302202

22:01

A primary with 11 candidates, despite its painfully obvious and unimportant outcome, is still helpful for strategic allocation of the precious STV.

user302202

E.g., Baum looks set to win, so I'd rather focus on trying to put JS above J-FF.

John Dvorak

The point of STV is that you don't have to strategize

EKons

status-norepro

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Logged-out users are unaware that users can flag comments...maybe it's time to show the upvote and flag options to logged-out users, with a prompt saying that they must have an account with 15 reputation (as is done with votes and adding comments).

Journeyman Geek

23:07

@SonictheWizardWerehog which could potentially confuse / annoy them more

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