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1:32 AM
Why curing cancer sounds like such a great achievement when in fact there's no cure for the common cold?
2:00 AM
Because fatality from common cold could be reduced compared to cancer?
(philosophy after waking up is not good for my brain...)
2:14 AM
cause both of those arn't curable cause they're a range of things
and are pointed out cause they sound profound.
Cancer for example is a whole range of different causes and transcription errors and shit
Common cancer
(I think I'm awake better now)
2:37 AM
actually no
3:26 AM
@SmokeDetector spam
@SmokeDetector spam as well
4:36 AM
@JonEricson Thanks for answering again. If you just read the comments under your answer you posted earlier this day, you will get a basic idea what the problem is in the site. :)
@NogShine Heh. My phone has been going crazy tonight with notifications. My battery is dying. ;-)
Just as well. I was supposed to be in a choir rehearsal and I kept sneaking a peak at the Dodger score. They lost.
5:01 AM
That's... Baseball?
Q: Enable the "ask about own post" feature for low-rep users

gparyaniFollowing the discussion at Should the "ask about own post" feature be enabled here on Stack Overflow?, the reception appears to be positive and generally in favor of enabling that feature here. For context, on other sites in the Stack Exchange network (except localized sites), there exists a fe...

5:31 AM
@SonicWizard I've often found that imperitive language works less well here
something like "Could we enable the .... for low rep users please?" is so much more effective
I don't want the title to be too similar to my previous post on the topic. This isn't the first time I've posted two questions about the same topic on MSO (the first was about the 404 polyglot).
well that's a whole nother issue.
this needs flags and leaden death meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309459/…
2 hours later…
7:58 AM
@Mithrandir24601 Okay, that worked. :P
8:11 AM
Glad to see Catija up at the same hours of the night as me
8:35 AM
71 messages moved to Chimney
@bro why?
@Jon oh hey, did you by any chance have any time to look on the Drupal drama?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ not yet
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, link at end of answer: How to actually set "Use Config Settings"? by lisa lou on magento.SE
9:42 AM
@NogShine Hi
@LakshmiNarayanan Hi!
@rene flagged as offensive.
offensive with curse words ^
@ShadowWizard yeah. meh
let us add short explanation when manually reporting posts with Smokey. What do you think?
What is CM Jon Ericson's time zone? when is he usually available here? Any idea?
9:49 AM
This will appear when using the "why" command.
@LakshmiNarayanan west coast US
@ShadowWizard sounds reasonable
@rene Thanks rene
@LakshmiNarayanan GMT-7
@rene I keep forgetting.... who should I ping for such requests?
or angussidney?
9:51 AM
@JonEricson is getting some Hinduism lessons in his comments under his answer about advanced topics in Hinduism. Even practicing Hindus are not perfect with it. lol
@ShadowWizard Thanks!
@ShadowWizard post on their github? I have done that a couple of times
@NogShine I feel that people are confusing a website about hinduism with a hindu website! Don't know how to make this crystal clear.
@LakshmiNarayanan its also a website for folk practicing hinduism, however badly.
And ya, as a beta site, scope is pretty important
This question is both a support question and a feature request. The top (main) part is a duplicate, and even if it weren't, the question would still be closable as too broad.
@YvetteColomb I had an answer mostly posted for your last question ;p
10:17 AM
@JourneymanGeek undeleted sorry
She probably deleted it because of my "unclear" vote
actually works pretty damned well for pre-working on an answer.
Yeah, I tried that once, but then when I copy-pasted it into the answer box and tried to post it, I was prompted for a captcha.
hah, that happened to me anyway. Testing if I'm human. Woof to you sir. WOOF.
10:20 AM
@SonicWizard yep - that and the negative comments and downvotes on both mse and mso.
@YvetteColomb writing meta posts is hard ;p
and as a mod, its amusing to start writing something, then see that a regular user has posted something better
yeh - I'm going to lie down and watch shows.
thanks @JourneymanGeek
@JourneymanGeek I agree.
10:41 AM
@JourneymanGeek thoughts about this request to move to Super User.
My favorite quote is Blockquote by Anonymous.
@rene its not a very good question IMO
10:56 AM
When searching for duplicates on SO, I always find popular iOS questions with terrible grammar and formatting. I usually edit them if they are not too long. Is this a "trend" in other categories as well?
@JourneymanGeek that's what I thought....
@the4kman yeah. It is sloppiness all over the place
@rene Normally you are quite swift in using Chaos Control upon request...out of curiosity, why don't you think that one is a duplicate?
@SonicWizard I really have my attention else where so I didn't notice or didn't care.
11:18 AM
Was this one ever discussed again? One month later, it's rapidly becoming irritating.
11:45 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive title detected, potentially bad keyword in title: Why did Brahma fuck his own daughter Saraswati right in her ass? by John on hinduism.SE
@SmokeDetector tpu-
@SonicWizard which chaos request? I might also miss them sometimes.
@ShadowWizard I didn't ping you in that message, but...
2 hours ago, by Sonic Wizard
@rene https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309463/why-does-the-marked-as-duplicate‌​-block-not-give-links-to-the-duplicate-quest
2 hours ago, by Sonic Wizard
This question is both a support question and a feature request. The top (main) part is a duplicate, and even if it weren't, the question would still be closable as too broad.
@SonicWizard done
12:20 PM
internet is magic - even if you have a sore throat, you can still chat online like normal :p p.s. flu sux
eww poor @TelKitty
!!/tea Tel
@ShadowWizard brews a cup of earl grey tea for @Tel
thank you but it should be the 2nd last day of severe symptom
You know in advance for how long you'll be sick?? Nice ability. ;)
you can google flu stages on the internet, it's pretty handy yeah >_<
12:32 PM
When I'm sick, no site on the whole internet can predict when it'll be over or how.
I mean, it can predict, but it will never be nearly accurate.
IMO counting on the internet instead of going to doctors is causing tons of harm, generally speaking.
"I have high fever, but internet says I'll be OK tomorrow, so no need to go check with a doctor."
@TelKitty Yep, I was experiencing technical difficulties last week...luckily my internal defense mechanisms were able to fix the problem and delete the infected files from me. Thankfully it keeps backups that constantly replicate.
@ShadowWizard Teacher at the school I used to go to did that - and suffocated in agony as his lung collapsed from the pneumonia he developed from "just flu"
@user5389107 huh. Point proven. :)
@ShadowWizard Thankfully I visited technical support instead of simply posting my problem on Server Fault
@SonicWizard good for you! You got USB with anti-virus to aid your internal defense mechanisms?
12:46 PM
@ShadowWizard Well, my system was tested for a particular type of virus, but that returned negative. In addition, they were overheating, so I received some extra cooling equipment that would help overcome that. But overall, I kept caring for them and giving them the gentle care they needed by blocking some incoming requests.
I'm losing you...
anyway, back to my "ordinary" avatar... kind of. Should be reflected here soon. :)
The reason I was tested for that specific virus even though I installed a specialized piece of antivirus (that needs to be updated every year) that specifically detects and thwarts that virus, apparently there was a bug that allowed the virus to slip by without detection in certain cases.
And yeah, I kept careful watch on their temperature, so that I knew when to turn on the advanced cooling equipment
1:02 PM
@SonicWizard Nope, we have clearly determined that malwertising do not exist, you need to be stupid to get a virus, no one need antiviruses and they are evil.
Sorry -- all of that was Metal Sonic posting from my account. He looks a lot like me...
@SonicWizard "advanced cooling equipment".... this?
@ShadowWizard I can either turn it to regular or extra strength...but it's still quite strong even at the regular setting.
@SonicWizard yeah yeah, and @M.A.R. got a little brother posting on his behalf.
(Metal Sonic again)
1:05 PM
in Shadow's Den, Apr 6 at 21:22, by M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ
@ShadowWizard that was my brother messing with my account
Metal Sonic usually takes rest...Dr. Eggman usually just sends out his mechs. I'm surprised he sent Metal Sonic...he usually sends him only on very specialized missions.
@ShadowWizard Aww...cute Cream the Rabbit
@ShadowWizard I said why it was deleted. I didn't give more details because moderators aren't allowed to give that much information. It was that user who said his brother voted him a few times; as moderator, I cannot say which account is using his brother, assuming it's really his brother, and not the same person using both the accounts.
That is something requested from SE.
@kiamlaluno serial voting or having sock puppet account should not lead to nuking the account, there is suspension for this. Especially when it's 700+ rep user in small site.
I am pretty sure there were serious mod mistakes done, Jon Ericson semi-confirmed that, and he'll take a look soon, hopefully.
Until then... nothing more either of us can say.
1:25 PM
@ShadowWizard sometime sometime I do wonder, if that little one that asked a snake for help leaving this planet wasn't indeed the only sane one.
see you again in 6-8 time units when you'll get the answers -_-
@ShadowWizard I just replied to yours comment about irritanting comments. I am not sure which information you expect to be made public from a moderator, since moderators cannot give much information, as requested from SE.
@kiamlaluno The restriction is put in place to prevent the user feeling targeted. In that case the user explicitly ask for it I think it should be fine. There are some examples of moderators talking about users' suspension.
@Derpy not possible, I have no lead.
@kiamlaluno it's like a movie teaser, without ever giving the full movie. Just showing the one minute teaser and saying "Ha! That's all you'll ever get".
So yes... for me it's irritating. Better not comment at all in those cases, IMO.
1:32 PM
Should someone make a meta post "Are moderators allowed to give secret information about an account publicly when the owner ask for it?"
@user202729 exactly.
@user202729 since it was done in the past several times, and no SE staff came barging in to stop it, the answer is most likely "Yes".
@ShadowWizard Then let's make a meta post to make the consensus clear?
And to happier things... love that animation when new user arrives.... old fashioned but always fun to watch. :D
@user202729 feel free to do that, yeah.
!!/report meta.stackexchange.com/questions/214233/… "possible yet another case of spam without link"
oh wait.... @user202729 who are you?? Thought you're @Magi or other known user who changed their name... lol
1:36 PM
@ShadowWizard No, I have been keeping that username forever.
@Shadow They're new.
@SonicWizard At least new on Tavern.
@SonicWizard looks like some random crap, not spam.
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 1 min ago, by Glorfindel
@SmokeDetector k (they forgot their link, it seems)
@user202729 oh. So you're new to MSE? Welcome! :)
@SonicWizard oh well. no doubt it should have been deleted.
@user202729 how you got in here just in time for this... delicate... issue? I don't believe in coincidences... ;)
sd poof
lol so funny
!!/coffee user202729
@SmokeDetector poof
1:42 PM
Delicate issue? Last I checked, that was out of scope for the Tavern.
huh!V Bug? Shouldn't it work only for reports??
@Catija whoops
flagging own messages
@Catija So I see you're beginning to be awake at odd hours of the night, just like me?
@SonicWizard night?? It's morning now in USA.
@ShadowWizard Not right now, I'm talking about some hours ago
@SonicWizard oh. You stalk @Catija? ;)
1:45 PM
@ShadowWizard No, just noticed she voted to close a question as off-topic at 3 AM; I just happened to see that because I cast the final close vote
To be honest, sometimes I check chat via mobile in the middle of the night when going to pee. Usually just to read though. :D
... Downside of pregnancy... having to wake up in the night to ... do stuff.
@Catija pregnancy?! Congrats! I guess... :P
Stalking people is Dr. Eggman's job.
@Catija Nice, congratulations on another new addition!
@Catija it's OK, we can say "pee" here, even Shog use that word. ;)
1:46 PM
Whee. Another boy. :P
Two boys... joy!
I didn't want to share too much info :P
@Catija nah, that's fine. Share! :D
Out of curiosity, how did you come up with the name "Bennett"?
Ben is very common name, in Israel too.
1:48 PM
We wanted a name that could be shortened Bennett -> Ben and we liked "Ben" ... but "Benjamin" was really common, so we found an alternate. :)
I like it a lot.
heh, nice logic.
@ShadowWizard Ben Gurion Airport...sorry, my aviation geek kicking in again
@SonicWizard but you can't know when the previous close votes were cast.... unless there's a comment as well.
@ShadowWizard It was closed within 5 minutes of posting...she had to have cast a close vote within those five minutes
@SonicWizard lol, that's actually not really related, "Ben Gurion" is last name, and "Ben" in that context means "Son of".
(not Ben as a name by itself)
1:50 PM
I went to sleep at 9 pm last night. I needed the rest.
That said, I don't generally check who voted to close blatantly off-topic posts...I just check my "votes" on my profile page, and if it's marked "[on hold]" I post " 20k+" here
Oh, cool, so it's like o'connor > of connor?
@JourneymanGeek why
No WAG this time... ;)
@ShadowWizard - well I think its frowned upon to give information on suspensions.
1:51 PM
@JourneymanGeek if the suspended user asks for it... why not?
@ShadowWizard He's not Smokey
@ShadowWizard more often than not, it leads to drama
@SonicWizard who knows... ;)
and SE's super particular about PII
@JourneymanGeek keeping everything in the dark lead to more drama IMO
1:52 PM
@ShadowWizard the right way's kinda to go straight to the CMs
I personally am happy to talk about anything I can talk about
but stuff like cross voting and well, broader trends with users.
I don't really care that a user got suspended, and don't feel very strongly towards lifting the suspension... all I care about is knowing how come a high rep user is destroyed like the last spammer, without any warning and without explanation later on. That's all.
assuming there was no explaination
he could have gotten mod messaged for example
@ShadowWizard Can't users with 500+ rep not be destroyed?
lemme see what the message says ;p
@ShadowWizard The mod said that the user was deleted.
1:55 PM
@SonicWizard as I commented, the mod can delete some posts, or serial voting rep can be reversed, dropping the rep below 500.
@user202729 auto suspension can happen only for destroyed users though...
That seems correct yes, but there's a delete option
now I really don't want to nuke aibobot so...
@user202729 There is a part about deleted accounts, and a part about destroyed accounts. If you are just asking to understand what happened, yes, an account has been deleted. — kiamlaluno 2 days ago
(cause sadly I actually do need a sock at times)
(are onebox ok here?)
also who is @user202729?
1:56 PM
Even "just" delete isn't justified in that case.
oneboxen are ok
@ShadowWizard assuming its a just
@JourneymanGeek Someone new to this chat room.
@user202729 yes of course
Welcome to the Tavern!
A mobile app displaying the contents of a particular, smallish, SE site offline would be nice... The Great Outdoors when out of reach of cellular networks for example.
@bro that would totally be something SE's licence would allow
@bro sure, in 60-80 years.
heck maybe make it a data dump viewer
@ShadowWizard wouldn't need to be official
data dump refresh rate is 3 times a year, best case...
1:59 PM
search for inauthor:"George A. Duckett" on Google books
I mean, there's a rediculous amount of useful things in community are unofficial.
or that.
dosen't he use data dumps too?
@Mithrandir Nothing for TGO.SE :( he's mostly bundling popular tags on the larger sites, not small betas.
@JourneymanGeek Yes, just not that kind of useful things.
@user202729 No, there are restrictions also to avoid PII breaches. I cannot publicly say which accounts are created from the same user, for example.
2:14 PM
@kiamlaluno I suppose you can still privately contact the user?
@user202729 say if someone acts all innocent and asks who the other socks are, we can't tell them.
@JourneymanGeek but you should be able to tell him that he was suspended because you found out some vote irregularities that were traced to some sock accounts he made
yup, but not who they are.
When it comes to suspensions there is not much us regulars can do or should be involved in as we by design only have one side of a biased story.
and invariably folks will try to only tell as much as works for them
2:20 PM
and on many sites, we're probably going to end up discussing a deletion at least internally first
(destruction - less so, mostly trolls and spammers)
@JourneymanGeek Mind you, that is probably policy because of some real *****'s who will try and gaslight you into revealing "PII" of other users so they can sue or demand settlement money
I do actually think its a genuine desire to protect the users
and I would note the PII we have is very limited
I totally imagine a meeting between SO mods: Okay, all in favor of nuking userid 22656
and the super specific stuff you'd have to drag out of me like wild horses.
@rene hypothetically?
2:24 PM
@rene That'd be a really long-time user.
I left for a while, 189 unread messages, more users coming here. Should I think "something happened"?
after a lot of discussion
Yet it seems still indeed weird if this user really was "silently deleted". Especially when our shared idol is still there calling the SE staff names and receiving mails "please forgive us if we had to remove you from the elections, but the community evildoers have us cornered"
@Catija yes ..
@JourneymanGeek One really good thing about stack is that you can keep your meltdowns and unfavorable reactions on the down low, allowing you to save face
2:25 PM
who's our shared idol?
@user5389107 well, I've never had a meltdown here
@JourneymanGeek yes, let's not do that for real ;)
@rene there would be a VERY deep discussion
It's possible for someone to get suspended for a year and come back and still be a positive contributor - on other sites you have a permanent black mark to your name and basicly can never come back under that name without carrying that around with you
@JourneymanGeek once a verdict is reached we move on to user 811 ;)
I'm sure a few of us would point out how epic a pain in the ass it is when we're wrong. Someone would suggest a 1 yr ban, while talking to a CM about a decade.
The fact that its so final....
2:26 PM
Apr 13 at 13:43, by Journeyman Geek
@Derpy ugh evan
@rene ... yeah, let's rise up against that one...
Hi @yagmoth555 welcome to MSE chat!
I guess ... someone... fixed it.
The one ...
2:32 PM
Hi :) thanks :)
(but but, I thought shog was the resident eidritch entity)
At least "the one" seems to be in a good mood today.
let's link some meta posts here to change the mood ...
2:36 PM
We could just talk about @SonicWizard's edit spree at 3 am. :P
I'm just the fastest tag editor in the world.
@JourneymanGeek tin foil hat theory: Shog has implemented a special script so that he is not notified even if one pings his name directly. On the opposite, he is secretly silently notified every time someone mentions "user 811"
@Derpy I didn't ping him tho
@JourneymanGeek but rene did say "user 811"
2:39 PM
@Catija I was not going to mention that
@Derpy I'm awaiting a mod message ...
@Derpy ... I don't actually think that's a tinfoil hat theory... I'm pretty sure he actually does have something like that set up. ;)
Hence, why I tend to refer to him as "he who must not be named" when I don't want to be found out.
@Catija Don't tell anyone that all of our internal processes come to a screeching halt if his browser crashes.
I wouldn't want that getting out.
@TimPost Hey... he's the one with every page on the network up in his browser at the same time... I understand.
2:42 PM
It's just a matter of time before you start seeing User-agent: Shog9 in your load balancer logs.
@TimPost new tinfoil hat theory.
SE infrastructure is just a big grease monkey script running on Shog browser.
just finished reading the "bot on JS room" drama and unread messages on this chat room...
2:59 PM
@Shog9 Can't be worse than the Shoggoth.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Shog9 R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
No Welsh plz ...
That's R'lyehian, not Welsh :P
@rene actually, that's French!
in Shadow's Den, 20 secs ago, by FOX 9000
@ShadowWizard [Powered by Yandex Translate] Detected language: fr (French)
@hey which drama is bigger? ;)
@ShadowWizard If that is French then I'm from Venus ...
@rene Yandex can't be wrong! sending ice cream to Venus
3:11 PM
Nooooo! Ice cream would melt :(
You can still drink it.... :D
Q: What is R'lyehian based on?

MithrandirIn his Cthulhu Mythos, H. P. Lovecraft includes several snippets of the R'lyehian language, including the "Cthulhu chant": Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! We have a vocabulary list available, that gives us a decent taste of the words - for instance, 'ai means speak or ca...

anyway, now whenever I'll be sorry, I can use steal that priceless pic @balpha posted!
@TimPost Since you're here, what do you think about my proposal to enable the "ask about own question" feature on Stack Overflow?
@SonicWizard umm... no. That's not off topic.
It's about questions and answers, in Stack Exchange. Hence, on topic.
3:17 PM
@ShadowWizard OP requested that we reject the migration
@SonicWizard OP can also request 100000 dollars. So what?
It's not up to them.
If SE wanted users to be able to close their own questions, it would have given them that power.
So then what are you going to do about the pending close votes?
Heck, even Jon Skeet doesn't have that power.
Apparently someone thinks that this post is rude...
Close as dupe of some random target (since closing as duplicate doesn't mark the migration as "rejected"), then reopen it?
3:19 PM
I was troubleshooting a composer install issue I'm dealing with and came across this. Why are people such jerks on @StackOverflow and why is this the top rated post?
@SonicWizard think I already voted "Leave Open" in the review queue... more than that, I can't do.
I read it three times, still don't see what the problem is.
@SonicWizard no that will be abuse of my hammer.
But I'm not a black woman, so...
@bro So... the thing there is that the person writing the answer admits to having done the same thing... which ... I don't know... seems like they're showing their own vulnerability.
3:20 PM
@animuson I've never had a post deleted by a mod before and it makes me feel strange. If you'd just left a comment I would have done it myself. meta.stackexchange.com/q/309485/303080
@uhoh he's not pingable here, your ping is... wasted
(aka very small chance he'll ever see your message)
@Catija It appears that she, like me, didn't read the second part of that sentence.
@ShadowWizard Shog once called me out for pinging @animuson here when I didn't ping him (he wasn't pingable here), and then when I tried to calmly explain that to him, he kicked me.
@uhoh this is one of many (5? 10?) exact same bug reports, why leave them all? They just become noise at some point.
IIRC the last time he was active here on the Tavern was when he was an SO mod.
@ShadowWizard makes sense and I would have done it immediately. I just wonder if having a moderator delete my post leaves any negative connotations.
3:24 PM
@bro Is animuson the only user who had his mod privileges on MSE revoked and later reinstated?
@ShadowWizard it's never happened to me, so it's quite shocking!
When was the last time someone else deleted one of your posts ?
The Community user did.
I do it to people all the time.
but you are über-evil, no?
The last time it was manually done was when a mod undeleted and re-deleted an answer I had voluntarily deleted.
3:26 PM
@rene Oh, absolutely.
Awesome :D
@uhoh I had some meta posts mod-deleted, I think. And users cast delete votes on others.
shrug is my reaction
To what?
@ShadowWizard okay, perhaps I've had a sheltered existence. tns.
3:29 PM
@uhoh Technically, it does count towards a post ban, but those are much harder to trigger on MSE (because downvotes are common; I've even flagged users with lots of downvoted posts asking they be suspended because they simply hadn't been banned.)
I'm really slow this night...
Smokey is the most experienced whack-a-mole player I've ever seen.
I haven't seen him (it?) whacked a mole though...
(apparently "she")
19 hours ago, by Sonic Wizard
@Catija Seeing as you seem to be responding to questions about the association bonus quite a bit, what do you think of this proposal of mine?
3:37 PM
@bro stackoverflow.com/a/22586674/4548692 Referenced question, by the way.
@user202729 Since the user re-joined the site, he can be contacted privately by every site's moderator, but I don't see why they should do it. The user contacted SE.
@SonicWizard a moderator deletion is different than down votes. That's why I asked.
@uhoh The fact that the question is deleted does count towards a ban (except if it was deleted more than 30 days after it was asked).
XKCD has been stuck in the 1980s for a while...wonder when it will catch up
3:52 PM
@SonicWizard well I suppose if there really were so many other similar questions and I didn't see them... but still, at least a comment should have been left explaining that the reason it was deleted is not related to the quality of the post.
The title of the master question wasn't broad enough initially... so it was easy to miss.
and yet I get the black mark...
1. it's not a black mark, it's just cleanup. 2. your question was later. There's really nothing to be troubled by here.
Yep, there are the occasional edge cases. Generally, mechanisms such as the 30-day statute of limitations for counting towards question bans and 60-day/+3-score statute of limitations for rep rollback prevent these from having a high impact, but a single thing under the threshold doesn't really mean much against you.
@Catija that's what I've asked here. Sonic Wizzard says it counts towards a ban, which sounds like a black mark to me
3:55 PM
@Catija I once had a question deleted in the name of cleanup, but I posted it before the official announcement.
@uhoh Dont worry about it. It's nothing. The ban threshold on meta is practially nonexistent.
okay thanks everyone, I get the picture, it doesn't seem like much to worry about.
You have 13 questions already... assuming you don't have 100 deleted ones, you're not at risk of any limiting.
Okay, yes, this is meta.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: How to track multiple savings in a single bank account with double-entry accounting by holi jori on money.SE
Sorry for the incorrect tone of my prior messages. I was trying to convey that as truthfully as I could, but it apparently carried the wrong connotation.
3:59 PM
@SonicWizard oh your wording is fine. I'm just not SE worldly enough for the proper context.

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