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12:35 AM
12:50 AM
@rene Oh man.... enough salt to fill a warehouse on that one
1:48 AM
A: Why are PHP questions on Stack Overflow in decline?

Tim PostThere comes a point where a resource like php has reached the full breadth of what it can cover within the constraints of what Stack Overflow considers to be on topic. What remains is a lot of noise throwing itself at the wall, with a tiny bit of signal occasionally emerging and bringing more dep...

Somehow I completely missed that.
Where's ol' Slim when you need the updates...
2:37 AM
I'm in a '90s mood tonight.
...and every night.
2:56 AM
Has anyone gone back to places that they were 20 years ago and found that their memories were not 100% accurate?
Living with dyslexia and false memories is not scary in themselves, the scary part is when you realising that you might be having them both
4:05 AM
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4:17 AM
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4:40 AM
sd 3k
@hichris123 I did too, but that project with the University of Melbourne sounds awesome. Accurate duplicate detection would be incredibly helpful
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: The Truth About Having A New, Skin That Is Obvious by MaryseOuellet on gaming.stackexchange.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body: SupremeX Muscle When muscle building? by MargMar on drupal.stackexchange.com
5:00 AM
sd 2k
5:24 AM
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[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: How To Choose The Right Web Hosting by roserderesn on security.stackexchange.com
sd 2k
5:44 AM
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6:18 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Chinese character in title, messaging number in body, messaging number in title, mostly non-Latin body, mostly non-Latin title: [澳洲学位认证,修改成绩单]UNSW毕业证成绩单→添加Q+微207634573←新南威尔士大学学历认证University of New South Wales by sdfzdgdfg on bitcoin.stackexchange.com
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sd 3k
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: How do I disable the new device notification on my Gmail account? by j_esq on webapps.stackexchange.com
6:35 AM
sd k
@Telkitty of course. One remembers only the good things.
@Quill huh? Is this a new option?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: One item that has been included on these locales because of its various positive surveys is Nitro MXS by scottclick on workplace.stackexchange.com
sd k
6:53 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body: How To Build Up Muscle by jefgilpin on drupal.stackexchange.com
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sd 2k
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7:20 AM
sd 4k
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sd k
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7:40 AM
sd k
7:50 AM
seems that apple has stepped up its shameless self promotion everywhere
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, blacklisted user: Best possible concentration inequality in high dimensions by sbmc1111 on mathoverflow.net
sd k
@Telkitty ?
when you hear all the good things about products of a brand, it's probably paid promotion
and most of the news about samsung android this month is that it explodes
8:04 AM
no news about windows phone whatsoever
To be fair reports of phones exploding tends to be click-grabbing
@Telkitty Still don't get you. How is windows phone related to anything?
And apple also got negative news, their recent update made many devices freeze.
click grabbers don't usually concentrate on the positive aspects
What's positive in exploding phones?
8:06 AM
so it's not self promotion
OK... still don't get your point.
just news
there is a difference between ads and news
@ShadowWizard Well, if you were going for a Worms cosplay, you would already have a "Dodgy Phone Battery" weapon replica....
@Telkitty You claim that good news about a product is always advertisement, i.e. they pay the news vendor to publish it?
8:08 AM
not always, but more likely to be
@Derpy heh, they're real prophets!
not necessarily pay news vendor to publish it, but certain companies can have close relationship with certain reporters
those reporters can benefit from those companies without directly being paid by them
@Telkitty Remembers me a certain game Story Mode... they had to introduce famous youtubers as actual character in the game....
and the news that they report would be some what biased
8:46 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: BodyBuilding Tips for Beginners by timothyhintion on askubuntu.com (@kos)
Thanks IE! How it is possible that two columns in a table, using the same class that just define a rem width end up having different width even when the cell contents are the same only Microsoft knows.
Soooo boring
throws a rat-toy at @bjb , hoping that seeing the cat run around could provide some fun
9:16 AM
Bjb is still stuck in his class. They haven't let him out since that time they had dog-students outside
He's still waiting for lunch
@Bart yr mom is still waiting for lunch
@JasonC grows what?
@JasonC yeah well ... your mom ... I don't know. But I assume she's lovely ... Meh, I suck at this.
@Bart proof your mom gave you proper education! :D
@AdamLear hey, can you please take a look in this oddity? Something blocks the chat, not sure on which side though.
9:34 AM
Hahaha, inviting a user who can't chat into chat. Well played @ShadowWizard
10:00 AM
@bjb568 Here comes a new challenger!
(no special reason for this, simply noticed the avatar on the meta site)
@Bart oh, thanks!
@Derpy way cuter than our dear bjb
10:27 AM
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10:47 AM
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sd 3k
@ShadowWizard wait until the claws come out ...
11:03 AM
@Telkitty Here you have your styled cat.
you can't see the claws
cat wasted ... >_<
11:33 AM
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1 hour later…
12:55 PM
poor @cat
@ShadowWizard It's Jason C's fault.
Ok, so...
@ShadowWizard lol
@Bart super lol
waiting for mega lol
BTW, the Den blames someone else:
in Shadow's Den, 4 mins ago, by FOX 9000
@ShadowWizard It's bluefeet's fault.
Blaming an employee ... brave move
1:08 PM
I think I'm just gonna drop it there, actually. Just to keep you on the edge of your seat.
I've been trolling my friends lately with text messages that start with "Hey, two things" but only contain one thing. And then silence. It's been great fun.
@Bart well, she's not there... makes it easier.... :D
1:11 PM
your CAPS is stuck
Stuck to what?
since you want to be offended ...
We know how much you love this
1:13 PM
@JasonC Now to your finger, probably
@Telkitty no no, to offend @Jason post pics showing really cute things
@ShadowWizard Jason Cat binned a similar picture before
Lol did I
@Telkitty binned like threw it into recycle bin?
Ok great but STUCK TO WHAT????
1:16 PM
Aug 15 at 15:40, by Jason C
1 message moved to Sandbox
That was for language in the captions, nothing more.
language, such as?
@Telkitty @Jason isn't a lion or a cat
in Shadow's Den, Oct 30 '14 at 14:26, by Jason C
@SPArchaeologist it's a giraffe btw, not a lion
Such as "you're giving me a headache"
short leggged/necked giraffe, I like that ...
1:18 PM
Giraffe with face of lion
Girion? Lionaffe?
Lionaffe sounds better
and it even exists already, kind of....
Good lord that's terrifying
boo it's not real
@JasonC which of them?
1:20 PM
I'll leave it as an exercise to tje reader to determine which pic I was referring to.
Dammit mobile chat is killing my response time.
1:22 PM
I found something even better
(now the suspense ...)
@Telkitty Meh. Respectable, but it doesn't move me.
@ShadowWizard Well done.
You should know that I refreshed the page.
1:24 PM
this reminds me....
@Mooseman salute
is it happy hour?
No, it's giraffe hour
It's all @Jason fault
1:28 PM
^ to make it less awkward for @rene
^ to make it less awkward for @Bart
1:54 PM
2:11 PM
I hope you were not writing an answer to that unminify thingy @Bart?
oh, MSO. blech
@rene nah, I didn't even finish my next comment
Do you not like mSO, @ShadowWizard? :P
@hichris123 oh, did you notice? ;)
But yeah.... I feel strange in there. Plus, no hammer! D:
;) I might tend to agree with you there.
2:49 PM
@Shog9 You're in Boulder right? Where do I get the best burger?
in The Frying Pan on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jun 16 '12 at 18:47, by Shog9
That said, there's a great little burger joint nearby that serves locally-raised beef cooked to just pink in the middle. I love that place.
Though not sure where "nearby" refers to.
3:38 PM
@ShadowWizard you can easy find them. They have a yellow M on a large pole ...
Am I reading this answer from Shog correctly that on meta, despite delete votes being used on unpopular opinions the number of deleted answers is not alarming?
I'm asking because someone raised that issue but that doesn't seem to be backed by evidence
4:18 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: Show the title character limit when writing a title by Martin Jacob on meta.stackexchange.com
@rene lol, I doubt that is what Shog meant...
@rene not alarming, but he did take action.
4:42 PM
@ShadowWizard Ok, left a comment: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/334468/…
5:11 PM
@JasonC I'm not. @tchrist is, he might have some suggestions
@ShadowWizard I don't know how you dug that up, but... I was living even further from Boulder back then
I'd recommend one of the pubs, normally.
Haven't been to Avery lately, but the various Suns are always good.
College kids swear by Snarf's.
Just find a pub/brewery that looks swell.
Enough good Colorado beer and the quality of the burger becomes less critical.
@Shog9 I have my ways.... :D
how / why
5:27 PM
@rene yup, nicely said.
@Shog9 oh well, just a simple chat search... chat.stackexchange.com/search?user=3435&q=burger ;)
5:44 PM
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6:28 PM
I just figured out why The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is how it is.
It all makes sense now.
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Hey @Shog9 the docs recalc just went live, are you already getting hate?
6:43 PM
Oh good, now people who had privileges they didn't know how to use no longer have them. And I have a more normal rep.
@hichris123 I went from 8800 to 4800 due to that
to be fair, most of the 4k was entirely undeserved, so I'm not mad
Some people went from 500->2k/3k and really weren't experienced enough to use their powers well.
@hichris123 I can do everything except 10k stuff anyways, and getting 10k will take 2-3 years from now anyways for me#
So I can't say I lost or gained anything but a number
My rep hasn't changed yet, huh. Must take a long time for the script to run.
7:01 PM
I think 1k+ of my rep randomly disappeared today (on Stack Overflow). That is odd...
Q: Documentation Reputation Update Is Live

Kevin MontroseTL;DR Noticed your rep change? It’s because we’re deploying an update to the rep in the Documentation Beta as was announced a couple weeks ago. The biggest change: there is now a “minor” contributor level where example upvotes give you +1 instead of +5. Read on for the nitty gritty of how Doc...

@bluefeet Maybe? but why isnt that anywhere on my graph... that is a big hit to my rep
@amanaPlanaCAnalPAnaMA it is a rep recalc - it's being done as if the rep never existed because the rep rules changed for docs
@bluefeet hmmmm Should really be a post somewhere about this (instead of hidden in another post)
That's it's own post...
7:06 PM
that is the post
@Andy lol I did not find it until @bluefeet pointed it out lol
I tried searching
@hichris123 your rep recalc hit
7:27 PM
I'm a little sceptical of documentation reputation - it makes me worry about reputation inflation.
Can we now go-back to simply begging for up votes like we used to do?
@AaronHall We've been in a long period of very low inflation for years. If you weren't fortunate enough to be part of the site in the first couple of years, it's notably harder to get the upvotes needed to get more than the basic privileges.
I wasn't on in the first couple of years. I made out ok.
Yeah. I'm talking about the global view. People are a lot looser with voting when a thing is new.
It's true that the first years were very inflationary.
7:39 PM
@JonEricson Do you find that fair, jon?
Just for curiosity
I suggested tying some 10k privileges to 3k+ and proven good use of mod tools, but that never gained anything
I feel like 10k will take me 3 or 4 years more from now
@Magisch write better and moar content.
@JonEricson this is true as an overall trend, but I believe it's a lot less so if you break it down by tag. That is, PHP is "done", fighting over scraps, but newer platforms (or libraries) can be very lucrative.
Still need to ignore the first few months of Stack Overflow of course; that was a crazy anomaly for rep, as on most new sites.
@Shog9 It feels discouraging at times to see how easy people farm rep in some of the newer tags like android
Makes other contributions on the site feel pretty worthless by comparison
It's interesting to watch the new folks who are making out well in the rep leagues - you find some interesting people and tags.
@Magisch well, maybe they are
I mean...
One of my uncles tried to start a business making custom oak furniture.
Really well-made stuff, beautifully crafted, practically unbreakable,
...and completely unable to compete with the stuff you find at any mid-range furniture store.
@Magisch Not fair. But not unjust either. Many of the early contributions have been especially useful for programmers everywhere. That said, I'm excited that Docs will help newer users make up for lost time.
7:46 PM
what, on price?
You wanna compete in a flooded market, you can't just be good. You have to be the best
@JonEricson I feel like you went entirely in the wrong direction with the rep changes though
Your new system basicly says either make it longer or dont bother
I'm sceptical of docs, I'm thinking it's going to be about as successful as community wikis.
no incentive to trim an already too long example
@Shog9 True enough. I guess I should have bothered to learn something besides Perl.
7:48 PM
@Shog9 Quite something that I have to compete in a flooded market in order to be allowed to help keep this site clean, eh?
When everyone owns the content, no one has an incentive to improve it. But that's what the reputation tries to fix.
On my own free time, no less
work for free?
7:49 PM
Already too long examples already make browsers chug hard, soon most pages of docs are going into "utterly unusable" territory
@tchrist I can't count the number of times I tried doing something in a non-Perl language and daydreamed that I had some Perl feature to use. Generally, it's first-class hashes.
Yeah, that's the other thing, people are going to want the easy rep (many of lower levels of competence) and "here comes everybody."
@Magisch That's true in theory. We'll see what happens in practice. I'm still hoping people will catch onto citation reputation.
I think I get "citation reputation" on my canonical answers.
@JonEricson My current company does full-stack Perl for major web applications and all the rest. The only exception is the embedded javasnot in the html pages. We have single programs (apps) that have many hundreds of thousands of lines of manicured code with continuous test integration.
7:55 PM
@JonEricson I'm not sure, maybe I'm way off base here, but I see this to be the death of any usefulness SO docs was poised to develop
We need above all else for people to properly cut and trim examples
And you've made that worthless from a rep standpoint. Incentive talks, and right now its saying "Make SO docs less useable and game the system"
@Magisch Mega examples really do seem to be outliers still.
@Magisch you don't have to do anything.
Mega examples are the only thing thats being viewed in appreciable amounts atm
the critical mass for usefulness isn't there for anything else
@Shog9 You know what I mean. I like this site and I will do what it takes to be able to help more. If that means another 3 years of answering only just not closable tosh for homework kiddies, then so be it. I'm just mildly disappointing SE couldn't come up with a better incentive structure
One of the subtleties of this is that the big tags are still big; a lot of the growth tends to be in subsets. Libraries, new releases, stuff like that.
IOW, if you're still learning - or still willing to learn - you can still earn rep. You just have to focus on areas that aren't well-served yet, which may very well also be the areas where you're still learning.
Sucks for folks who think they're "done" and just want to spend all day writing variations on the same answer... They have to grind... But I don't see any reason to incentivize that unless we are truly out to be just another "do my work for me" site.
@Shog9 I don't have control over what I learn
I learn whats required by industry and school
thats not the new fancy schmuck, the company I'm in is bound to 13+ year old tech
C is about the most modern stuff I get to touch
@Shog9 I'm poising the question if doling out advanced privileges on rep only is still appropiate
8:09 PM
@Magisch That is not true.
Sure, thats an easy metric, but its also an inaccurate one
@Magisch I had a job like that. I still found time to learn new things. There's almost always a need to build little tools to help you do your job and it rarely matters what language you use. (At least in my experience.)
@JonEricson Yeah no. Here its vba or bust
C is a hobby more or less besides one project where they had no other choice
Not permitted to make anything in non-vba unless it won't work at all otherwise
Most of my professional experience is C++ / winapi. Most of my SO rep is JavaScript / web. Your call what you learn - find something that interests you.
moderation interests me
software dev is a job to me
8:21 PM
Or... Do something interesting with VBA like that rubber duck fella
I do software dev because I'm not good at anything else that pays
@Shog9 eventually if everything pans out I want to drop software dev and do something more like what you do, but as I'm sure you know its a hyper competitive market and getting in is near impossible
There's a theory that we should only give power to people who don't want it.
@AaronHall In that case basing it on rep is exactly wrong
Its also a fairly dumb theory. If you force people who don't want to to carry responsibility they will not use it properly
Its been tested
I didn't say it was a good theory.
8:39 PM
@Magisch cultivate communication skills then. Not just writing, but reading / listening. Answering questions is a useful exercise there as well.
How about this close-vote rule: you have to have at least half the rep of the asker to vote to close?
That might encourage people with more rep to ask more questions.
In the same vein, how about downvotes on questions from those over a certain rep would no longer be free?
I almost feel inspired to write a meta question on it.
Why... would that be a good idea?
I'd think along the lines of unlock some higher mod privs (10k tools, delete votes) only for those who actually have proven they even can moderate
as in, a certain # of helpful flags, a certain # of cvs on Qs that ended up closed
@hichris123 do you want people like these to ask questions? stackoverflow.com/users?tab=Reputation&filter=all
@Magisch Meh. The point of the moderation tools was really for high rep users to get terrible stuff out of their way. You weren't supposed to need to have a ton of experience.
@AaronHall I was talking about the downvoting not free part.
8:50 PM
@hichris123 do you remember the last time I asked a question?
The self-answered one? Yeah.
Do you think I should try to ask more questions? Do you think I will after that reception?
But were those really all from high-rep users?
those what?
All the downvotes?
8:53 PM
no, I sincerely doubt most of the downvotes were from high rep users.
Then I'm confused...
3 mins ago, by hichris123
@AaronHall I was talking about the downvoting not free part.
So if the downvotes were from low rep users, and they had to pay a rep point to downvote my question, would they have chosen to do so?
It took them 12 hours to find a dupe target.
Ohhhh. I misread that.
I don't think that would be a good idea either. It just would further divide "high rep" and "low rep" users.
@Shog9 has said that he wishes people who are afraid to ask would ask, and that people who aren't afraid would be more afraid.
My suggestion doesn't answer the last part (a very hard problem, admittedly) but it does answer the first.
But does that really require a division among users? I mean, it seems like it's more the voting culture than anything else...
8:59 PM
There is a division among the users. And unfortunately I had incompetents swarming my question when I asked it that were insisting it be closed for very poor reasons.
Of course, this happens to low-rep users too
If that was your first experience on the site, would you come back?
Jun 2 at 23:16, by Aaron Hall
I get that the answer is fine and all, but I really don't think should be a question here. There is already a lot of information on the topic of enum in the form of blogs, other SO questions, python docs, tutorials, etc. Really no need for this — ZWiki 3 hours ago
You might, if you just don't care at all
So... That's what we're optimizing for: folks who just don't care
Well I wouldn't go that far. Perhaps "folks who care but have really thick skins".
You have to allow low rep users to moderate lower rep users.
When < 1k rep users try to moderate > 25k rep users, 25k rep users learn their lesson and stop putting themselves at risk for future abuse.
Hence the statement you quoted above.
9:07 PM
Skeet has 42 questions.
Darin Dimitrov has 36.
BalusC has 15.
Why? Because < 1K users can downvote and 3k users can vote to close.
If you want to change that, you have to stop incompetents from attempting to mod the top users.
(I want to mic-drop here, but not being experienced at mic-dropping, I just put the mic down carefully and wait for someone else to pick it up.)
picks up the mic again and when everyone sees how you're supposed to treat actually good questions, the behavior will become more socialized and noobs will be treated with better competency too.
drops mic
9:23 PM
@AaronHall I have... What, 3?
Certainly has nothing to do with downvotes.
Although one is CW because I got sick of folks downvoting it after I criticized their work.
A: Do the top answerers have secondary accounts to post questions?

Shog9Yes. Indeed, this is the dirty little secret of SO... As you're well aware, the question/answer ratio for human beings is fixed at 283/7. It is physically impossible for anyone to answer more than seven questions without having first asked at least 283. Therefore, any user with a smaller ratio i...

9:44 PM
I'm a one-account kinda guy. Managing other accounts feels like a lot of work. I don't wanna.
Besides, shouldn't I get a better reception because I have a higher rep?
It's not so much about losing face as it is the actual reception.
A higher rep user should have the high ground.
We give answerers the high ground. No-one can "vote to close" an answer (though we can vote to delete, but that's another thing.) Downvoting answers have a price too. If you want to encourage more and better questions, give askers with higher rep the high ground.
10:00 PM
Are you saying we should value questions? Preposterous!
I didn't say it, Shog did.
Getting more, better questions is the central problem of this site. The investors want more - thus Joel wants more, thus Shog wants more.
If you want more, better questions, don't let low-rep users drop huge-steamy piles on questions from high-rep users.
A marginal change in the rules is in order.
So the only way I'm ever going to write up a feature change Q on meta is if I have strong support here. So if you support the idea, you better say so here, or I at least am not going to bother writing it up.
10:54 PM
Global message... watch the views/vote count on meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/334551/…
425 -> 437 views
And already four great comments:
Darn it, I just lost 2200 rep. Good job. — Menasheh 5 mins ago
You still didn't give up on this silly crap noone wanted? Praise FSM the Drupal topic is practically dead. PHP alas not and it's recommending a thing (variable variables) that should've died out a decade ago and doesn't need documentation... — chx 5 mins ago
"Noticed your rep change?" Couldnt you just keep our rep and update the new upvotes? — Rosário Pereira Fernandes 2 mins ago
Q: Should we still disconnect Documentation rep from Q/A rep? A: Hell yes. — kjhughes 1 min ago
11:41 PM
@AaronHall Your picture does make it seem like you have two heads though.
I'm not really president of the galaxy.
I'm just this guy, you know?
@hichris123 You know something awful?

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