Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

1:29 AM

@forestdistrustsStackExchange - tbf, due to sheer scale, SO rep kinda gets 'inflated'

Also, shockingly, high rep alone dosen't mean you 'get' the system

Spevacus

@JourneymanGeek Related to this is what Catija talked about in the comments today. I think this should be explored a bit more.

Journeyman Geek

@Spevacus well it can be true on smaller sites :D

Spevacus

:)

Journeyman Geek

Rep can mean "I'm really good at SE, I'm really good at the subject, or I just keep throwing stuff at the wall and some of it sticks"

Especially if you're an early user

I've often thought of doing a thomas pornin, starting a new account anonymously and seeing what happened

but y'all would probably figure it out from the its and it's :D

forest distrusts StackExchange

@JourneymanGeek Yeah that's true... I rarely ever use SO, so I tend to underestimate its size.

Spevacus

1:52 AM

I once caught myself complaining about the amount of garbage we get on MSE (blatantly off-topic questions) - ... To an SO mod.

forest distrusts StackExchange

haha

Journeyman Geek

lol

@Spevacus now, if it was @ChrisF... :D

Spevacus

I can only imagine the amount of work Chris F does that's not visible whatsoever to most users.

Journeyman Geek

Well - ideally most mod work should be invisible :D

I'm a bit crap at that

Rob

2:47 AM

@Spevacus Yes, it outlines the issue well; which she demonstrated in chat earlier today, and several previous occasions.

After posting 5 long reply comments, she notices that they are talking about a different site. Specific expertise is necessary in the subject area to edit/review (arguably, even to vote meaningfully), if two sites were true duplicates they ought to be merged; but none are really, and each has their own in-jokes / idiosyncrasies / followings / and specificity.

Journeyman Geek

3:03 AM

@Rob certain bias here but...

that shoulda been brought up on site meta

Feeds

3:25 AM

"I've traveled here from the year 2020 to bring you this vaccine!"

Catija

4:16 AM

@Rob That's not exactly what happened. The first handful were written long before the rest and I was well aware of it being about SU at the time... and then I went away for a while, posted 13 meta posts on different sites... and then didn't remember that specific post was about SU when I came back several hours later.

Journeyman Geek

:D

Also - while meta's been taking up more of my time, I'm unaware of a request on SU for adjusting the closure threshold

Catija

@Spevacus I've posted my thoughts about rep being bad for privileges in a few places. I like to hint at things and see how people react to them.

Don't even get me started on "rep is bad for electing mods".

Journeyman Geek

lol

>_>

<_<

(I don't actually think I ever got elected/appointed for my rep, but one never knows)

Catija

I didn't even say anything SO specific until I started talking about the edit review queue being full most of the time. :P

@JourneymanGeek Eh, the candidate score is where I'm struggling. 20k is a lot more than is really needed for mods. 3k is good - probably enough in a lot of cases - but stuff like meta participation, flagging, actually reviewing - those sorts of things are better than just pure rep.

Ryan M

While we're griping about rep, you probably also shouldn't be able to hit 25k rep from a single post :-p

Journeyman Geek

4:25 AM

@Catija 20K's important not cause of rep, its cause of tool access

Catija

That's at 10k

And it's at 7k on beta sites.

... maybe less.

Ryan M

IIRC it's 2k on beta sites, 4k for deleting answers/edit tag wikis without review

Catija

Ah, OK. I think 7k is the site analytics.

2k seems low but I'm too lazy to confirm. :P

apparently that is correct. :)

Ryan M

@Catija at risk of excessive corrections, I'm afraid that one's 5k

Catija

I'm going to lose my cred.

:P

Y'all will think I'm out of touch. Memorizing rep requirements is like knowing the periodic table for a Chemist. ;)

Journeyman Geek

4:35 AM

lol

THIS is why multiple screens are good

open up the charts, pretend you know everything

Catija

I swear there was something at 7k for betas.

Ugh, clearly I'm just getting old and forgetting everything.

Or it's one of the alternate universe things ... whatever those are called.

Journeyman Geek

Mandela effect/berenstein bears?

Catija

That thing, yes.

Journeyman Geek

Tina Turner singing holding out for a hero?

(the last one is just me)

Catija

HAHA I was going to say.

Journeyman Geek

4:42 AM

I have a distinct memory of them showing Mad Max 3 with a MTV of Tina Turner singing it...

youtube.com/watch?v=Gcm-tOGiva0 is the version that's real

And I DISTINCTLY remember the same set and stuff...

Wierdly I didn't know about the Bonnie Tyler cover till YEARS later

Journeyman Geek

6:02 AM

Ok, I'm being slightly braindead here... but

with respect to this

56

Q: We're switching to system fonts on May 10, 2021

TL;DR We’re shipping system fonts as our default font stack. We plan to do this on May 10th, 2021. What? We’re planning on specifying system fonts on Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange Network. On macOS and iOS, you’ll see things set in San Francisco. On Windows, you’ll see Segoe. On Android y...

Wouldn't it be the browser defaults?

Meta Andrew T.

6:14 AM

@JourneymanGeek did you mean OS default? My Chrome on Mac has Times, Helvetica, and Courier as default fonts

Journeyman Geek

My browser has its own defaults

Meta Andrew T.

and I believe it's Chrome's factory setting, since I don't have a memory of changing them

so.. looks like they're now enforcing the font to be based on OS instead

Journeyman Geek

Which is wierd

or someone's misunderstanding something

since its also easier to change the browser default than the OS default

+ If it follows the browser default, I'll be changing to source sans/source code pro on my end

Luuklag

6:38 AM

Well you better go ask a question on the announcement then ;)

Catija

@JourneymanGeek My understanding is, no. I did ask about whether it would allow people to customize the font to their own, such as dyslexia fonts and that seems to not be the case. I'm not quite sure what it does but I think maybe we know your OS and serve the font we've assigned to that OS based on the list we created?

Does... that make any sense at all?

Luuklag

Wouldn't it be more likely that your computer has a variable "system-font" somewhere?

And you direct the browser to use that?

Meta Andrew T.

@JourneymanGeek Sorry, looks like my statement murk the water... I should have said "the font that SE has predefined, based on your OS", if that makes sense

Luuklag

Also, isn't it like the middle of the night, for at least one of you two @Catija , @JourneymanGeek

Catija

It's almost 2am here. Morning in Singapore. ... almost noon, maybe?

Journeyman Geek

6:43 AM

2 pm

I'm exactly 12 hours off

Catija

Ah so we're exactly opposite.

Luuklag

@Catija that's some real dedication there ;)

Catija

Blame @JourneymanGeek :P

Luuklag

Might also explain why you keep forgetting things ;)

Catija

I got four hours Monday night, six tuesday night... I guess only five tonight. So... probably.

Luuklag

6:45 AM

Haha same here, Haven't slept more then 5,5 hours a night this week

Was just busy doing stuff, and then it turned out to be 1 am every time

and the alarm goes at 6

Meta Andrew T.

(apparently "murk" is not a verb... what should be a better phrase...)

rene

The Work-Life balance is awesome, Awake/Sleep not so much

Catija

That was how I was today and yesterday. Monday I had to take my older son to the hospital at 7 pm (fractured collarbone) and got home at 11 and had to bake muffins for teacher appreciation, so ended up awake until 3 am.

Tinkeringbell

@MetaAndrewT. muddied.

I think.

Catija

@Luuklag Andy kindly lets me sleep in until 7. :D

rene

6:48 AM

@Catija oof, that is tough ... How is your son doing now? And you?

Meta Andrew T.

@Tinkeringbell ah, that's right, thanks!

Catija

@rene Mostly OK. Apparently collarbones heal up really well and quickly. He's not in a ton of pain and just has to wear a sling at school - mostly to remind the other kids to be gentle with him. If things go well, he can probably ditch that next week.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija Ah, slings, the E-Collar of humanity

Catija

I'm probably going to take most of Friday off other than meetings - hopefully the 3-vote close/reopen stuff won't dredge up a bunch of drama.

But I don't think it will.

Tinkeringbell

@Catija Well, and if it does, there's always Monday :)

Catija

6:51 AM

Mondays are hard because of too many meetings.

Tinkeringbell

Heh, that's everyday here lately...

Fingers crossed nothing happens though

Luuklag

@Catija ouch, tough one. How is your son now?

Ah you already told :)

@Tinkeringbell same here, monday is meetingday

Don't know who thought of that

rene

Uh: meta.stackexchange.com/q/364110 Maybe flag r/a?

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag I mean, I wish I had one meetingday. And having it on Monday would mean both a bit of a slow start to the week :P

So far, the last 3-6 weeks have been on average 5 hours of meetings each day, and work having to be done in between those :|

@rene Definitely flag r/a, but it's already gone :)

Journeyman Geek

@rene known troll

Luuklag

7:01 AM

@Tinkeringbell well yeah, monday is the day that's almost only meetings, other days are also meetings

but also some work

Tinkeringbell

I'm almost considering 'tropenrooster', just starting really, really early so I can get more than 90 minutes of uninterrupted programming/testing done.

rene

@JourneymanGeek ah, I didn't notice. Thanks for the info

Journeyman Geek

@rene I really should be keeping better track of this

Might be a job for team smokey but its a new cartoon and text each time

rene

@JourneymanGeek charcoal has a q/a in their SO for teams.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

7:27 AM

@Catija wow that's rough... get some rest, you deserve it.

Luuklag

Journ, Tink, if anyone feels like nuking a spam user: meta.stackexchange.com/users/993923/user919133

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag @Glorfindel uhm... meta.stackexchange.com/questions/364113/… I think you guys understand what's going on better than me, could we get an edit? ._.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

9:05 AM

@JourneymanGeek it has been Glorfindeled.

Journeyman Geek

So it has. And its a great improvement ;)

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Indeed, that user is struggling to post clear reports/requests, but usually there's potential in their posts. (the OP of that question)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard hence asking for help, cause it was clear both of them knew better than I did :D

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

9:35 AM

@JourneymanGeek ☺

Journeyman Geek

11:25 AM

twitter.com/marcgravell/status/1390249540599615488?s=19

That's one I have never heard before

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

11:49 AM

@JourneymanGeek lol

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

1:04 PM

kfk... KFC.... yummy....

!!/KFC

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard No such command 'kfc'.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

:(

Luuklag

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard yes please

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

Luuklag

Makes me hungry again

Tinkeringbell

1:17 PM

Ugh yeah now I want a snack too

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

You're welcome.

:P

You only live once, so why not make this one time as much fun as you can? ;)

Tinkeringbell

Ehmm.... because other people will eventually have to pay for it, and I hate it if I'm one of those other people, so why would I inflict that on other people knowingly?

Luuklag

1:34 PM

@Tinkeringbell why would we have to pay your KFC?

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag Not the KFC :P But the health problems that come with it :P

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag cause it would be robbery most fowl?

It dosen't make me hungry :D

Luuklag

@Tinkeringbell Just get yourself a good funeral insurance ;)

@JourneymanGeek you just ate?

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag I don't eat chickens

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag Oh, I have that already :P Doesn't take away the fact that health care costs are socialized :P

So, unless everyone is lucky enough and I just drop dead without attracting any diseases first... yeah, they're going to have to pay for my mistakes.

Luuklag

1:38 PM

@Tinkeringbell well thats the beauty of it, we all pay. So you would need to go full-overboard for you to make any noticable dent in that for me

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Tinkeringbell you mean support you when you become sick?

Luuklag

we all have mandatory insurance

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard just hospital bills etc.

Journeyman Geek

1:53 PM

@Tinkeringbell that's kinda the point of insurance :D

and socialised health care is... well

If you think about it, a form of that with less of the BS ;)

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Luuklag well I can see Tink's point to be honest, and it's a fair point. Think she means more being a burden on family, not only financial, e.g. they will have to take care of her, stay with her when in hospital, and overall be sad that she's not healthy.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard More society as a whole, she's talking socialised healthcare

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

heh guess who wrote this?

> Yikes at 10 years-ago me using gendered language

Journeyman Geek

Tim? :D

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

(edit summary)

@JourneymanGeek nope

Hint: floating head, but not Shog. ;)

Mithical

2:00 PM

...Jeff?

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Mithical hehe, good one! But no.

Someone as old time as them though.

Ekadh Singh

Joel?

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@EkadhSingh he's not just a head. ;)

OK, time's up!

Oct 14 '10 at 20:50, by Andy E's head

@Shog9: from one head to another, I think you need a jar :-)

Chat profile out of synch, but still works, lol

And time for weekly shopping, cya!

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard but where did he write it? he hasn't been here a decade

Mithical

@JourneymanGeek meta.stackexchange.com/posts/79361/revisions

only activity since 2016

Journeyman Geek

2:15 PM

That's impressive. And a bit awesome

I don't think I was even really active in 2016

My rep charts are fun

and yeah, was kinda low tempo at the time

user400654

it took me ~ 1 year to go from 0 to 20k

in 2011

Luuklag

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag It's more that 1 person can't make the dent, but if they all live like that... :P

So it's not really an excuse :)

user400654

same rate got me to 40k

Tinkeringbell

Cute charts :D

Luuklag

2:30 PM

@Tinkeringbell then you end up paying for yourself ;)

user400654

then i cut off halfway to 60

Mithical

(that cut off the year, one sec)

Tinkeringbell

Mithical

Luuklag

@Tinkeringbell you're young ;)

Tinkeringbell

2:31 PM

@Luuklag I know... just a baby :P

Mithical

I like how my chart has the Meta rep just stab the SFF rep in 2020.

user400654

Tinkeringbell

@Mithical Would probably have been better if that never happened XD

Mithical

probably

Ekadh Singh

@Mithical what does SFF stand for?

Mithical

2:43 PM

Science Fiction & Fantasy

Journeyman Geek

Science Fiction and Fantasy

Ekadh Singh

Ok thx :)

Journeyman Geek

not to be confused with SF - server fault

Ekadh Singh

Why does the SE community have so much jargon

Journeyman Geek

lol

Cause...

we're lazy?

Mithical

2:44 PM

I mean... fair question.

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek cause we pick too long site names

but SFF is not limited to SE I think

Mithical

Also has to do with everything having names, and over a decade a lot of things get named.

Journeyman Geek

And the "inner" SE community kinda gets used to it, and it gets handed down

Ekadh Singh

Interesting.

@JourneymanGeek then why do people write entire books in the answer section :)

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh cause... its fun?

user400654

2:47 PM

points

Journeyman Geek

Something like a site name is a repeated bit of information

Mithical

some of us enjoy going off on meta

Journeyman Geek

and answer is ... its own thing

Catija

3:02 PM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I saw that yesterday but I don't know who that is?

Luuklag

@Catija Morning

Or it is already afternoon I guess ;)

I'm heading out, picking up the kids

Catija

10 am. :P

rene

How much sleep did you get?

Catija

4.5 hours?

rene

Ouch.

Mithical

3:12 PM

For some reason, that doesn't sound like quite enough...

Catija

[insert this is fine image here]

Mithical

~~[insert~~ ~~image here]~~

Journeyman Geek

@Catija I don't either and I have been here longer than you 🤣

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

3:37 PM

@Mithical good job, detective! ;)

@JourneymanGeek even more fun, MSE is also Math.SE

So those coming from there are really lost. lol

@EkadhSingh helps to write less, it's common inside closed societies. :)

@Catija Andy, the famous floating head.... he was very active when I just joined so I remember him. But he has gone below the radar long ago, at least on Meta.

@Catija one and half hour more than me, nice. ;)

@user400654 taken?

hmm whom did I not ping?

@rene 3 hours!

(4 am to 7 am)

Well, 7:15 if you consider sleeping while in toilet and brushing teeth, though it's more like hibernation than sleep.

Who's left unpinged?

Luuk! Well, this one deserves special treating.

sdc tea Luuk

status-pings-done

Ekadh Singh

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard you spend 15 minutes doing that?

user400654

🚽

Catija

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard Why do you get so little sleep? Kids?

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@EkadhSingh well. Wife wakes me up in 7, sharp. She wakes me up again in 7:05 and then I really get up. 7:05 until 7:10 I sit on the toilet. 7:10 until 7:15 brushing teeth. Taking my time as like Windows, I'm slow after being woken up from sleep. :D

And it buys me precious 15 minutes of sleep/rest. ;)

But after that... full speed on. lol

Mithical

My morning bus to base leaves at 7:14 from a bus stop two and a half minutes away. I set my alarm for 6:30 to allow for laziness in the morning.

Ekadh Singh

3:46 PM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard So you really got 3:05 hours of sleep. [insert Star Wars liar meme here] :D

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Mithical wow you're fast.

@EkadhSingh lolz yes

Sometimes I even go to sleep in 3:30! (gasp) ;)

Mithical

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I mean, it's just brushing teeth, bathroom, throwing on my uniform, and grabbing my bag... I usually have at least fifteen minutes spare, which I can use to grab a bite to eat. (Although I usually catch breakfast on base.)

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Catija at first, yes, that was why I reduced ToS (Time of Sleep) from 5 hours to 4 hours. But then I started to really get into a game (Castle Clash) and over time found myself spending more and more time on it.

My body is kind, so far, and allowing me to keep it up. :)

7 coffee cups a day help, I guess. lol

Ekadh Singh

I wonder how many adults are addicted to coffee

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Mithical well, for me add various stuff related to the kids in the morning: making sure their food and water bottles are in their bags (they always forget), bringing clothes to my lazy son, brushing teeth to the smaller daughter, etc.

And reading newspaper headlines. ;)

Mithical

3:51 PM

@EkadhSingh I just had my first cup of coffee in several weeks... I don't think I'm addicted. :)

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@EkadhSingh dunno, but I can tell for sure I'm not addicted as I can stop for a full day without any issue when I fast.

(Yom Kippur)

@Mithical thumbs up :)

Army was the time I got really into coffee, during the night watches.

Mithical

I'm exempt from שמירות :D

(And kitchen duty. And the מסדר בוקר.)

Ekadh Singh

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard how do army night watches work?

rene

they are very simple devices. If you can't see what time it is, it is night. If you can it is day.

2

Luuklag

4:16 PM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard thanks for making me feel special :)

sdc icecream Shadow

@Mithical yeah ofc, the scriblescriblescrible ;)

Mithical

guard duty and morning inspection, in English :)

Luuklag

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard lucky you. Skipping coffee in the morning equals headache

@Mithical sounds like your lucky. You can sleep in ;)

Mithical

Not always... but sometimes, yes. :D

Luuklag

That's because you're not stationed at base?

Mithical

no, perks of my specific position

Luuklag

4:23 PM

Sounds cool, I don't thibk I'd like sleeping in baracks

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard your wife should drag you to bed earlier. Sleeping less then 6 hours a night highly increases your chances of getting alzheimers later in life

Ekadh Singh

4:44 PM

Why does flagging require 15 rep? When users with less than 15 reputation see a bad post right now, they simply send it to the community team, which wastes more time than simply flagging it. Is there any advantage to this system?

Tinkeringbell

5:16 PM

@EkadhSingh It applies a bit of a barrier, so we don't get too many bogus flags. You'd be surprised how many there are.

"Shouldn't be closed" "Please intervene and make a decision"

And that's from people that do have the reputation to flag: They have some limited experience on the site already.

John Dvorak

also, you don't want to get socks with red flags

Tinkeringbell

Imagine what would happen if any rando/anonymous user could flag .... especially what John said: Imagine if they could red flag.

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Mithical how... how you got פטור from all those?! :P

Tinkeringbell

@JohnDvorak I wasn't done yet :P

John Dvorak

Apologies for stealing your work :P

Ekadh Singh

5:19 PM

@Tinkeringbell of course, I forgot to take into consideration the trolls (facepalms). Thank you :)

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@EkadhSingh tick tock? ;)

Well, I mean we guard the base, one or two soldiers in a tower or gate.

Ollie

Question:

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

If one caught asleep, he gets punished.

Ollie

Is it a bug that I can raise mod flags on deleted chat messages?

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Ollie not sure

Ollie

5:22 PM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I can do it on deleted posts, but chat messages are more akin to comments aren't they...

user400654

chat messages are chat messages

they're... above comments, below posts

Ekadh Singh

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard I meant how long is night guard. Probably should have been more specific :)

@user400654 I would say comment rules are a lot more strict than chat message rules. (Or at least they should be, in reality probably less than 50% of comments are actually on topic for comments, my comments included.)

Tinkeringbell

@Ollie I think it's good. If you have someone insulting you and then deleting it, e.g. to avoid it being r/a deleted and the auto-suspension... you still need to be able to flag it?

Ollie

Oh yeah that's a good point

Let that be a warning to anyone insulting.

sdc cupcake for @Shadow

in Sandbox on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 22 mins ago, by Xander Henderson

smacks @Ollie with a rolled up newspaper

user400654

@EkadhSingh i would agree with that statement, but only because comments are more visible. My point was more that comments are considered not important generally. Chat message on the other hand... in chat there are no questions, answers, comments, the chat messages serve the purpose of all three

JNat

5:30 PM

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard gone

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@EkadhSingh oh, it changes per base/unit. Usually 8 hours, but also had some that were 6 hours, 10 hours, and even 12 hours. My most intense period during army was whole week where I did 12/12 watch duty: 12 hours of watch (either guarding the base or out in patrol) then 12 hours of rest.

@Ollie thanks!

@JNat thanks!

JNat

@DavidPostill gone

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Luuklag well you are! :P

Ekadh Singh

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard 12 hours of night watch for a week, sounds like fun. :P

JNat

@Luuklag gone

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

5:34 PM

@Luuklag oh, in ordinary days I must have the morning coffee otherwise I fall asleep... when fasting I don't work or drive.

JNat

@Luuklag gone

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@EkadhSingh not only nights, I'm not sure but think I got the 6 AM to 6 PM shifts. Pure luck.

@Luuklag oh, she tries. But not enough, probably. :D

JNat

@Ollie gone

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gone

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

gone train on its way

who's next?

JNat

no one

all the backlog's gone

\o/

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

5:43 PM

Nice!

Fast and Furious @JNat :D

Spevacus

6:08 PM

@JNat Cross-site spammer stackexchange.com/users/20561675/lucas-jones

(Sorry D:)

Mithical

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard :)

JNat

@Spevacus gone

Spevacus

/o/

user400654

9:21 PM

O.o

Mithical

→ 7 messages moved to Chimney

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