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user194636
11:01 AM
I find labels like 'progressive' and 'conservative' a bit too broad to be super useful, except when talking in the broadest of generalities. I find most people to have a range of views on specific topics, even when their overall politics clearly lean one way or the other.
 
There is only one solution to all those problems: Free speech and knowing that sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me...
 
That's a bit naive. Words have tremendous potential for hurt.
 
@PaulWhite Ther's only 10 kind of people: those that understand binary and those that don't...
 
You may argue that toughing that out is a necessary component in modern society, but words can cut just as much as getting stabbed can.
 
@Magisch They shouldn't.
@Magisch I disagree: I was bullied as a kid and I got over it.
 
user194636
11:02 AM
Tolerance and respect seem like more useful starting points to me, than 'free speech' or sticks/stones.
 
I disagree: as a society we need to toughen up a bit as we're all becoming pussies.
 
And this is the point where I respectfully ask you to refrain from this topic for now
 
@Magisch I'll respectfully abide by your wish here in this room.
If I would fall out of line, remind me.
 
Having debated on meta Politics.SE, I don't even know if "free speech" is what it means, or else...
 
user194636
I very much enjoy a good debate (listening more often than taking part) but the emphasis is on good. Typically this means people being calm and actually persuasive, rather than shouty and emotional.
 
user194636
11:08 AM
I've never really understood the point in taking part if the desired outcome is not to persuade someone to your point of view.
 
user194636
But it takes all sorts, I guess.
 
@Fabby words can hurt
And I've, in the past, totally hurt someone by stuff that seemed innocent and funny, and ruined a good thing by it
 
@JourneymanGeek This is off-topic here as per:
5 mins ago, by Magisch
And this is the point where I respectfully ask you to refrain from this topic for now
 
ohhhh
he asked you, but ya, I'll respect you can't respond.
 
user194636
I took that 'you' to be singular?
 
11:09 AM
@Fabby And truly the cats are in charge, and morphing us into then. The question is, is that a bad thing?
 
@Mithrandir I was under the impression it was the mice?
 
user194636
meow
 
Not the fox?
 
@PaulWhite seems unfair to @Fabby if he can't respond though
 
I meant more in general
 
user194636
11:12 AM
Well that seems a bit premature, but OK, I have other things to do.
 
@Somewhat the mice
 
@PaulWhite Heh, true. I've been postponing other things to do in favor of a conversation here ;)
 
and time to get off from the office~! ;)
 
@Somewhat Lucky you. I still have at least 3 hours to go!
 
off day today
I work all night tommorrow ._.
 
11:16 AM
I'm off the rest of the month and that's why I'm on-line so much.
Normally there is no time to drop by here...
 
(and 2 days after that ;) )
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer, bad pattern in url answer, blacklisted website in answer, pattern-matching website in answer, potentially bad ns for domain in answer: Use FaceTime with the same Apple ID? by John smith on apple.SE
 
@JourneymanGeek Are you on shifts? Night/day/day ...
 
@Fabby its a bit complicated
 
No need to tell me if private...
 
11:19 AM
We work either 4 days a week (mon tues sat sun) or the other 3 days. time switches
so in 2 weeks I'd work Day Day OFF OFF OFF night night OFF OFF Day Day Day OFF
 
Ouch! I'd prefer working nights only instead of having to switch.
or 1 year of nights / one year of days with a month off in-between.
I wouldn't be able to cope with your schedule.
@JourneymanGeek are those 12h days/nights? or 8h?
 
8 to 8
Its hard, yeah
I might apply elsewhere near the end of my contract
 
Double ouch!
 
I feel tired and worn out after 8h shifts
 
My personal record is 40h straight.
(excluding travel to/from the DC)
 
11:23 AM
hour + travel time
But as I said, I needed a job, and its a job ;)
 
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, that's how I feel about this job...
I changed because I was bored in my previous job and didn't want to be the top dog any more and learn something new.
Boy, I wish I was bored now! :-)
 
lol
Its boring, its tiring, and some of it isn't even really necessary. On the other hand, I should have a month and half off at some point if all goes well
cause our leave counts against our duty days
 
And can you take a month and a half off in one go?
Because that's what I have, but my request for just one month off got denied originally.
 
yup!
Its kinda expected
We actually all planned so we don't overlap lol
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching product name in body: The Ultimate Guide To Turmeric Forskolin Reviews by Bandar killa on cs.SE
 
11:39 AM
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad ns for domain in body: Patroxidan - Ultimate Pain Relief For Healthy Body by PatroxidanReview on askubuntu.com
 
^note: metasmoke is currently down, which means no autoflags. manual flags are needed
 
@rene Post 1: Already recently reported [ MS ]
 
oh
sorry
 
that's a top-level comment flag
qualifies as "attacking a person or group" by attacking the trans community
 
@Magisch Seems to be gone?
 
@Mithrandir Eh. It's misplaced as unsolicited advice on a Q about something entirely different, but it read to me like it was attacking the medical procedure
 
i flagged it as rude/abusive (top level) and it deleted itself
 
@RO the star wall is smeared, again. Please do something about it...
 
I agree. I don't appear on there at all. Unacceptable.
2
 
Thanks to the one who has done the needful... 🙇‍♂️
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: How to get my Gmail account valid? by Neil Bhisma on webapps.SE
 
12:54 PM
@Bart Use your glasses! (or get a bigger screen) chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7238680#7238680 is still visible here ;)
 
It is again now :)
Stop doubting me. First my shoe size, now this ...
 
@Bart Oh true... I guess it was gone if there were stars cleaned up.
I'm sorry. That was my fault ;)
 
FOR SHAME!
 
@Bart Is it working? Are you starting to doubt yourself already?
 
Nah I'm not. Am I? Could be? Maybe. Don't think so, but you never know ... who are you? Where am I?
 
12:56 PM
Yay... my masterplan is starting to pay off! :D
 
@Bart what shoe size? you're a pair of glasses
 
wondering... anyone here using uMatrix?
 
Don't all start shouting at once!
 
ʷʰᵃᵗ
 
^I^too^can^play^that^game
curses
 
@OptimusPrime Technically, multitasking is a flawed word ;)
 
Chrome hangs while switching tabs
 
@OptimusPrime Close a few tabs? :P
The ones that are related to work can go ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell I think I should use multitabbing
@Tinkeringbell all of them are important. I closed all irrelevant tabs.
 
@OptimusPrime Heh, that looks better :D
@OptimusPrime That sounds like you haven't sufficiently narrowed down your definition of important ;)
 
1:05 PM
;)
 
oh, well, I guess I am better trying to ask on Security.SE then.
 
@Tinkeringbell probably but I'm testing multiple apps and I reached somewhere on all of them. When I tested one for few minutes and I get bored, I'll switch to other
 
I assume Geek has tried it? I only used until uBlock though...
 
Adding, I want to learn how to pentest block chain/ smart contracts. But can't open more tabs as it will kill my browser
 
@OptimusPrime Sounds more varied then what I'm doing.... I'm basically running command after command, just to see what the outcome is and what the spaghetti I'm working with is doing
It doesn't help that I haven't even mastered half of the language's commands yet.
 
1:16 PM
my theory on it is, remember before learning. When I was 17, I used to do some freelance works in php and used jQuery for front-end. I found difficulty with JavaScript and jQuery because I can't remember the native function names (because of upper-lower cases), I copied jQuery code from Stack Overflow and other sites, edit it if necessary.

In college, while taking class in JavaScript, my professor, said that the JS function naming follows a specific rule. If the function consist of multiple words, the first word will start with lower case and all other words will start with upper cases. Th
Saw this url on twitter and it's a great idea
 
@OptimusPrime Here it's more that I've learned how to compare e.g. object types but there's about 3 ways of doing it, and I've only been taught one extensively (and that's the one I remember ;) )...
And I'm reading code that uses all three ways of doing something in a quite random way
(e.g. you can do _return something or >> something to do a return )
and both are used, and I am only really familiar with _return yet, so everytime I see >> I have to do a double take ;)
I'm supposed to learn by developing though, and it's coming, ever so slowly
 
1:32 PM
CLOSE ALL THE TABS
 
2shouty4me
 
@Somewhat oh, well, it's not a real problem... more of a curiosity. Using Chromium and uMatrix, I noticed it is apparently not working on a single site.
more precisely, the store.
 
@Tinkeringbell you learn by developing a drinking habit from looking at all the broken code
narf
 
also no, I just run ublock at the moment
On vivaldi though
@Magisch what do you think causes the broken code?
 
@Magisch Heh, that actually sounds acceptable ;)
 
1:35 PM
 
@JourneymanGeek Actually, I mostly stay away from programming once I start drinking ;)
Waste of skills maybe ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell but but Ballmer Peak. ;)
 
@JourneymanGeek Heh... is there such a graph for productivity, instead of skill? :)
Mine would go from almost nothing to nothing, I guess ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell no idea. Is there a difference ;)
 
@JourneymanGeek Duh... I'm amazingly skilled, just not productive enough for people to notice!
 
1:38 PM
I too wish to be paid well for no productivity
 
professional slacker?
 
I spend a good chunk of my work day online so...
 
@Magisch It kinda comes with the job? Sometimes you have to run tests, compile stuff, rebuild an environment... at other times you're just not seeing it for a while. And end up having a conversation in the Tavern for the largest part of your working day :P
 
@Tinkeringbell I stay away from everything except drunk people when I start drinking...
@Tinkeringbell That never happens to me unless I'm on holiday...
 
@Fabby ;) Holidays are a great thing to waste in an online chatroom ;)
 
1:45 PM
@Tinkeringbell oops ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell is your firm hiring?
 
@Fabby Ehhh.. I prefer not having the drunk people around when I drink either ;)
@Magisch Not really ;)
I'm also romanticizing a lot probably
I usually pick up the slack on another day/evening.
 
You're an alcoholic if:
 
you drink more than 2 glasses of it daily
True.
 
* You drink alone
* You drink because you need it
* you drink out of the wrong container
* You drink during business hours
* you drink every day.
If you say "yes" to more than 2 out of 5, You're an alcoholic
 
1:48 PM
Undefined variable 'during the day'.
 
I drank alone, because... forever alone ;_;
 
@Henders Variable defined.
 
I don't drink alcohol.
Some days I almost regret it ;)
 
@JourneymanGeek :D :D :D
@JourneymanGeek Do you cook with alcohol?
 
(apparently my predessor came to work drunk a few times)
 
1:49 PM
I don't drink at all, but I still have hangovers ... I win?
 
@Fabby "still" ...
I don't still cause we never do ;)
 
I dunno how to say that in English:
 
"SENATOR! DO YOU STILL BEAT YOUR WIFE?"
No, we don't use alcohol in cooking either
 
@JourneymanGeek Although you don't drink do you still use alcohol while cooking?*
 
ahh still no ;)
 
1:50 PM
What is the 'wrong container'? 'Shipping Container? Ornate vase? Hamster cage?
 
Not alcohol made in stills, nor alcohol not made in stills...
@Henders shoes.
 
@JourneymanGeek that's acceptable in Australia though
 
@Henders beer out of a wine glass
 
What if you don't own a wine glass... o.o
 
@Henders Vodka out of the bottle (beer = allowed)
 
1:51 PM
Wine out of a dead goat.
 
@JourneymanGeek No! That's allowed! (if drinking home-made wine from a wine bag made out of goat skin)
 
come to think of it...
 
Absinthe out of a kangaroo's pouch.
 
@JourneymanGeek ...o_o
 
wine out of an undead goat?
 
1:51 PM
this has gotten weird
 
oh, right, the last time I drank alcohol was on office's karaoke event...
 
@Mithrandir was the wrongest thing I could think of ;)
@Fabby who said anything about skinning the goat ;)
 
Seems like 'wrong container' is poorly defined. I'm out :p
 
wine out of a docker container?
I GUESS you could do that...
 
@JourneymanGeek I was trying to point out that I'm bat-shit crazy and can find creative solutions to any technical problem!...
Dead goat + wine = OK under the right circumstances
 
1:53 PM
are you MacGyver!?
 
@Fabby I was trying to point out I can be a smartass ;)
 
no need to point that out
 
WINE from Ubuntu is strange enough... installing Ubuntu on a dead badger and then using WINE is even worse.
 
@Henders :D :D :D
 
I'd have gone with "can"?
@Mithrandir you might need more wine.
 
1:54 PM
@Mithrandir Ubuntu is the wrong OS: you need Vüdü on a dead badger
 
Can I have WINE on Kali?
2
 
@Somewhat No, Depending on your POV I'm your worst nightmare or the best thing since sliced bread:
 
Do you want a drunk, angry wine covered death goddess?
6
Cause that is how you get a drunk, angry wine covered death goddess.
8
 
@Somewhat I'm a Manager who used to be a tech and is still keeping up to speed with thech.
 
@JourneymanGeek wait a couple years
 
1:57 PM
@Mithrandir then you have a rotten undead badger
 
now that's fun
 
or a skeleton badger
is it still a zombie?
 
So many stars for the WINE on Kali question!!! (I copied that to the Unix and Ubuntu Chat rooms)
 
@JourneymanGeek What's the drinking age in the Underworld?
 
2:02 PM
@Mithrandir No idea. you should ask that three headed dog. ;)
 
relieved that Tavern™ has returned to the usual Tavern™...
 
Yeah, and apparently the Free Speech freeze is no longer on the star wall neither...
 
:D ;-)
 
@Fabby not even sure why that was starred ;)
 
2:06 PM
@JourneymanGeek I starred it to inform everyone of the contradiction that Magisch used his Free Speech right to block other's Free speech right...
 
:D ;-)
 
@Fabby maybe but eh, sometimes some topics can go horribly wrong
 
Yup, especially when people start talking about dead children and then delete their comment.
I know when to back off...
 
and well, not everyone's good at tapdancing across conversational minefields, let alone doing a cossak dance right atop a mine ;)
 
2:08 PM
But as I'm a fat bastard, it takes a lot of pushing...
@JourneymanGeek :D :D :D
Thank you!
I need a smoke!
AFK
 
So, that's how he felt was the best way to handle that landmine, and well, I think he did ok there.
 
^^ reported for being AFK ... no wait, that's in Overwatch. Go ahead.
 
2:23 PM
Okay, I'm back
 
The stars in this room are particularly bright today.
 
Aww thanks! :D
 
My spouse: "What are you laughing about?" Me: "drunk, angry, wine-covered death goddesses" My spouse: "I hate you because you get paid for this."
 
Heh... There's so many inappropriate comebacks to that ;)
 
2:32 PM
Technically, the correct response to an angry wine covered goddess would be 'let me get a towel for you maaaam'
 
@JourneymanGeek Perhaps that assumes that the wine is what is making them angry. That may actually make them more angry by toweling the wine of them
 
Don't touch the wine ;)
Instead, offer more until your goddess passes out?
 
Maybe.
 
Or just put the angry goddess in a safe space XD
No wait, that might ruin the carpets.. if she's still covered in wine
Important: are we talking red or white wine covered?
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body: 14 Best Movies like Scarface (1983) by Loan Phương on movies.SE
 
2:41 PM
@Tinkeringbell death goddess. Definitely red
 
@JourneymanGeek Well, that explains the anger then. Any idea how hard that is to clean up?!
 
Let's just say the red room is a good idea
Not really. I don't typically spill wine on goddesses
Anyway. Night!
 
Sleep well!
 
Is it advisable to sprinkle salt on a goddess? To remove the stains of course.
 
2:58 PM
@Bart if you prefer salty goddesses over angry ones? Maybe :)
 
@Tinkeringbell Rosé... ;-)
 
ok, time to derail this train.
 
@Derpy party pooper... Where are we going next?
Or are you just going to make us crash with no hope of rescue?
 
you asked for a Rosé god... so....
here, have fun.
 
@Derpy First of, that was Fabby, secondly we were talking goddesses... So yeah, this is a trainwreck XD
A trainwreck might actually make this ride home interesting at least. I forgot my book :( booooring!
 
3:05 PM
@Tinkeringbell which is appropriate, we are now talking about Dragonball Super after all
 
@Derpy oh. Well, have fun monologuing, as I don't know anything about that to keep a conversation going... :/
 
oh, don't worry, this is the Internet. Not knowing a thing about the current topic has never stopped anyone from posting their opinions online :P
like if posting realistic, relevant and polite messages was ever a requirement ^_^'
....
...
 
Heh, at least I try?
I really try to make my corner of the internet a nicer place ;)
Improving the world starts with improving yourself!
 
...one of the nicer thing in No More Sky (a game that only now after 4 updates has reached what was promised on release) is that it gives you a nice sense of perspective.
Take the intro...
you are somewhere in one of these small dots.
 
@Derpy That would make a nice Ubuntu wallpaper...
 
3:15 PM
@Derpy so, what's the perspective?
 
in a way, what you do on these planets won't even matter... you will probably never see them again, nor will probably any other player.
Unless you stop. Or call someone else to your location.
then, someone may notice other exists in that sea.
Few "stops" nowadays in our real world. And I fear fewer stop in the sea of bits that is the web.
and the few that would want to do something to... you know.. be happier on this dusty rock in a sea of nothing... well....
 
They can ;)
 
day by day, they are busier focusing their time and strength on defending themselves instead.
 
@Derpy often leaving me to wonder what they're defending against and if defending is really necessary or the right path of action
 
@Tinkeringbell oh, well, we are fully capable of stealing, killing, torturing.. all for personal gain, because the others are in the red team or even for fun... wonder why people have to lock their door at night?
 
3:25 PM
@Derpy dig deeper.. why are people stealing or killing?
 
@Derpy "No More Sky" :D
 
It's kind of an arms race if you look at it like that, where did it start and go wrong?
 
@Bart yep, realized the typo :P It is No MAN Sky
 
@Derpy Heh, even I managed to figure that one out, just because of the outrage over the game ;)
Gotta run, train is at the station ;)
 
I'm very tempted to get it, but I fear it would end up in the same state as tons of other games I've bought. Played once for 15 minutes, and me playing Overwatch as usual
RUN
 
3:28 PM
@Tinkeringbell outrage... to be fair, it is still better than many other. It was just unfinished, but at least NOW it can be considered a full product.
compare it to Mighty #9 for example....
 
That was a weird one
 
at least in No Man Sky case the team behind it didn't just run away with the money. They actually fixed the issues, so they have at least my respect for that.
@Bart well... Mighty #9... could say a lot about it, but I think I can summarize in just a single message.
 
Yeah, I'm actually quite impressed NMS managed to recover in the way they did.
 
> If you have already delayed your game twice, lied about it so that your bakers have discovered the delay thru Amazon, and your game is full of bug and looks nothing like the "concept arts" you released for the founding campaign, all while you managed to make some guinness record level funds disappear in a indie level low cost style game... It may be not a good idea to start a second kickstarter while your first one is still hanging on a rope
^ Mighty #9 summarized for you
 
NMS is actually quite fun to play atm, at least for me
but i'm too busy with PoE and WoW atm
 
3:52 PM
And now we've gone from the big questions to discussing games ;)
Funny to see how conversations shift ;)
 
It's the Tavern :)
2
 
4:09 PM
Arrived to speak at @dotnetsoutheast after listening to the whole of Into the Woods while driving. If I happen to bring witches, wolves, bakers and beans into the C# 8 talk, that'll be why...
 
5:07 PM
@YvetteColomb did you see this MSO post: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/374242/578411 ? It needs one more delete vote to get it deleted which I'm happy to cast to be honest but as you're mentioned there I hold back for now in case you want to write a (some?) response.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:46 PM
According to the SO salary calculator, it doesn't matter what sort of developer you are or in which languages you work in Germany - they all get paid the same. Except PHP, no-one wants PHP.
 
sounds fair
 
@NotThatGuy The salary calculator is borked. :)
 
It was written in PHP ...
 
hah!
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Setar timeout para uma função específica ✏️ by Rodrigo Vaz on pt.stackoverflow.com
 
 
1 hour later…
8:20 PM
Possibly of interest to regulars on other sites that perceive a problem with argumentative citizens of Stack Overflow turning up and fighting in the comments. I don't get your norms; what are they? workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/q/5555/25356
 
8:32 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: How to recover data on replaced RAID 1 virtual drive, PERC 710 controller by davydoff Hell on serverfault.com
 
8:50 PM
They're draconian ;) : https://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=7246083#7246083. When we say comments are for requesting clarification or suggesting improvements, we mean it ;) But while on SO suggesting an improvement might even be 'this doesn't compile, you need to add a )' that's not how stuff on more subjective sites really works.

Because people write from their experience, so merely saying that X is wrong isn't suggesting an improvement. You're then asking the answerer to completely change their answer, and are basically starting a discussion on what's right or wrong to do
 
"merely saying that X is wrong isn't suggesting an improvement" - as someone who (over on SO) frequently comments just to say that things are wrong, I strongly agree
"You're then asking the answerer to completely change their answer" - disagree; I don't much mind what happens to the answer as long as my comment indicating the problem with it is visible to future readers
 
@MarkAmery Yeah okay, maybe not the most optimal way of phrasing that ;)
It's all in the phrasing I guess
 
"[this one](interpersonal.meta.stackexcha…) that points out a great way of phrasing your comments so they actually ask for clarification instead of just saying 'you're wrong'" - I think the strategy there is disingenuous.
Sure, instead of saying "Your reasoning is wrong, because of X, and your suggestion is a bad idea that will cause Y, so I recommend against following this answer" I can feign uncertainty and deference and ask "But what about X? It seems to me that doing what you suggest will cause Y; perhaps you could point out the mistake in my obviously-flawed reasoning", but doing so is deliberately dishonest, and I'd feel like a dick.
 
@MarkAmery If I'd encounter a comment like that, I'd almost certainly say the answer is lacking a form of backup: An explanation of under which circumstances X has worked for the answerer ;)
I understand, it feels a bit weird to deliberately twist my sentences into questions even for me, even after almost a year of being pretty active on IPS. But considering the alternative...
'You're wrong because of X and it will cause Y" is too close to a discussion and opinions. A comment doesn't have enough characters to fully explain and back up that statement.
 

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