Tavern on the Meta

scunliffe

11:00 AM

trying to catch up here... is this convo all about supporting some sort of IRC / XMPP protocol deal?

Harry Gindi

What features do you think they're planning on adding at this point in the game?

Erick Robertson

Why stop with the chat? We should create a separate client for all of StackOverflow.

Harry Gindi

@Erick: That's a red herring and you know it.

balpha

@HarryGindi I don't mind you disagreeing with anything, but please watch your tone. This isn't mathoverflow.

Lasse V. Karlsen

@Harry, I have no idea, but the API can change, everything can change

The second they publish it, they're locked in

Erick Robertson

11:01 AM

The arguments against creating a client for the chat are exactly the same as the arguments against creating one for the website.

Lasse V. Karlsen

I don't want them to give up the freedom of change just yet

@Erick, not quite, the website is (I'm assuming here) more stable feature-wise and API-wise, it has matured

Harry Gindi

@balpha: In reference to what line precisely?

Erick Robertson

@LasseVKarlsen But there's still no reason to make it into a separate client.

It works fine in a browser.

Lasse V. Karlsen

No

balpha

@HarryGindi You know very well what I mean.

Lasse V. Karlsen

11:02 AM

And I'm not saying there is no point in creating a separate client for chat either

I'm just agreeing with them that now is not the time

Harry Gindi

@Erick: The difference is that a browser is well-suited to displaying webpages

Lasse V. Karlsen

I would very much like to have a client for iPad/iPhone of both

Harry Gindi

Rather than streams of text

Lasse V. Karlsen

seeing as the websites (chat and SO) aren't really geared towards mobile devices

Marc Gravell

@LasseVKarlsen chat has a mobile version; it will continue to be evolved

Lasse V. Karlsen

11:03 AM

yes, I know

and that's my point

it is evolving, so now is not the time to get side-tracked in order to publish a good API or spend time making a separate client

Erick Robertson

an iPad client for SO and the chat would be wicked.

Lasse V. Karlsen

but in time, if the mobile web interface isn't good enough, perhaps a more native client is the best way to go

Harry Gindi

I don't really understand why the iPad doesn't just run the full version of OS X, honestly...

Erick Robertson

@HarryGindi Which is why you're not Steve Jobs.

Lasse V. Karlsen

If it did, you wouldn't understand why it only have 15 minutes of battery time

Harry Gindi

11:04 AM

It's basically a laptop without a keyboard.

Lasse V. Karlsen

It could be a laptop without a keyboard with a different OS

Erick Robertson

But with iOS, it's only a big iPod.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Correct

Erick Robertson

By the way, I love my big iPod. :)

Benjol

@LasseVKarlsen Or get side-tracked talking endlessly about it, for that matter...

Lasse V. Karlsen

11:06 AM

@Benjol, yeah yeah :)

Erick Robertson

@Benjol Why'd you come in a chat room, then?

Lasse V. Karlsen

You can't make a chat-system and then complain about being side-tracked talking about things :)

Marc Gravell

side-tracked? heh - I get paid for this

Harry Gindi

I get paid to sell drugs to the community.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Yeah, where is that checkbox btw? The one where you get payment for being here?

Benjol

11:06 AM

Yeh, Marc, no fair. You and balpha are the only ones getting paid for this!

Lasse V. Karlsen

Can't remember seeing that anywhere...

Erick Robertson

I get paid for doing work that I'm not doing when I'm here. :)

Benjol

@LasseVKarlsen, careful, because right next to it there is another checkbox where you pay :)

Lasse V. Karlsen

Yeah, well, I don't see that one either ;)

question, are smileys going to be added? ;)

Marc Gravell

@LasseVKarlsen buried in the T&C - we assumed you'd already agreed. We arrive on Tuesday to take your house and cat.

Harry Gindi

11:08 AM

Please don't add smilies

Lasse V. Karlsen

noooo, not my cat!!!

Erick Robertson

Question: is someone keeping track of how many stars everyone gives/gets?

Marc Gravell

The system knows...

Erick Robertson

The system should start telling us.

Lasse V. Karlsen

You'll only take Billy over my dead body!!!11

Harry Gindi

11:09 AM

by the way, why why does this keep happening: every time somebody stars a new post, it reloads the entire list and lags my browser to death

2

Erick Robertson

I have a 6:30 AM meeting with the CTO in 20 minutes. I don't really want to get into anything too heavy... gotta figure out what to work on

Marc Gravell

well, the stars are about the conversation, not the people. There are multiple ways of getting at the starred points from a chat.

Erick Robertson

@HarryGindi because Opera sucks?

Harry Gindi

@Erick: you suck

Erick Robertson

wow, how did I know?

Marc Gravell

11:10 AM

@Harry - at the moment, that is simply the way the RHS is implemented. We can of course tweak it. Or; don't "show 234 more"...

I'll take a note of that to investigate.

balpha

@HarryGindi watch it

Erick Robertson

Maybe there should be an option to keep the chat history trimmed to 25 messages

Marc Gravell

@ErickRobertson it starts at 100, but yes that might be a practical consideration.

Erick Robertson

so who pays you, Marc?

Harry Gindi

@ErickRobertson: How did you know, meanwhile?

I assume because somebody came in here earlier and asked the same thing, but if not, I am curious.

Anyway, I loaded the chat in firefox, and it's still lagging to death

Erick Robertson

11:16 AM

@HarryGindi That's because 600 MHz isn't fast anymore.

@MarcGravell HarryGindi - this message I replied to is where Marc stated he was paid.

For the record, I'm running the chat in Firefox 3.6.8 (Latest), and I have been for days without problems. I'm on a system that's at least a year old, and I'm also running remote desktop, SQL Server Mgmt Studio, Photoshop, and an X client.

Harry Gindi

@Erick: I'm using a laptop because I'm home for the summer. My main box is up in michigan.

Erick Robertson

DING!

Harry Gindi

Yes, it's crappy

Erick Robertson

And do you still have Opera running in the background? :)

or have you task switched out of WoW?

Harry Gindi

but why should I need something more recent than 1995 for chat?

I don't play WoW

Erick Robertson

11:20 AM

because this is web chat

Harry Gindi

and I closed opera =p

precisely my point from the beginning

Erick Robertson

I can't believe that I knew you were running Opera.

I never saw you say it. :)

Harry Gindi

I know

Marc Gravell

@ErickRobertson I work for stackoverflow...

Erick Robertson

I guess I've just gathered a flavor for the type of person that runs it.

Harry Gindi

11:21 AM

I was impressed

Probably not

Erick Robertson

@MarcGravell So when are the ads coming in here?

Harry Gindi

Opera was awesome as hell back in the day circa 2002-2003

I will agree that it has gotten pretty bloated and crappy

Erick Robertson

With all due respect, Opera was never "awesome as hell"

balpha

Harry Gindi

It sure was

Piers Myers

11:22 AM

oh no it wasn't

wds

mouse gestures is the one thing people tried to sell me opera on, but I never tried it that intensively

Harry Gindi

Opera 7 vs firebird vs IE vs mozilla, opera was the best at the time

=p

Erick Robertson

I could never figure out how to turn off that damn border, or for that matter to make Opera render pages like every other browser.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Opera might be best to some users, not to everyone

Harry Gindi

@Lasse: I'm saying that at the time it was the best

the only contender there at all was firebird

Benjol

11:24 AM

@wds, I've got them in firefox, and for me they've been like the scroll wheel - so natural I keep trying to use them everywhere (upvoting has the same problem :)

Erick Robertson

If you want proof that Opera was never awesome, do this. Open a question on StackOverflow "Has Opera ever been awesome?" It'll get closed in about five minutes. Just watch.

Harry Gindi

That's because that question is not appropriate for stackoverflow

Erick Robertson

facepalm

Harry Gindi

=p

I'm part of the NARQ squad on MO

Erick Robertson

And we wonder how I knew you used Opera.

Harry Gindi

11:25 AM

the enforcement arm of the NARQ society, previously known as the Old Boys' Network

Erick Robertson

Well, it's been an entertaining fifteen minutes, but I have a 6:30 AM meeting :)

wds

@Benjol which addon?

Lasse V. Karlsen

Harry Gindi

@wds: there are plenty of mouse gesture extensions for firefox

and they're all pretty good

Benjol

@wds, All-in-one-Gestures

wds

11:27 AM

@Benjol thanks

Harry Gindi

the only reason I still use opera anymore is that you can "allow window with no tabs"

if someone can figure out how to put that behavior in firefox

Lasse V. Karlsen

You mean like the app windows in Chrome? Just a window for a single website/page?

Harry Gindi

I would switch in an instant

no

Benjol

@wds, there are more options in there than I know what to do with, but it's the first one I tried and it works for me, so I never looked any further.

Harry Gindi

It means that if you close the last tab you have open

the program still stays open and has a gray empty window behind it

I know how I could hack it if I could program

open up a hidden tab that displays a gray color

Piers Myers

11:30 AM

Firefox stays open if you close all the tabs

Harry Gindi

you can't close the final tab

there's no way to close it

Benjol

@HarryGindi, lifehacker.com/5306497/… (Untested, Google told me)

Piers Myers

why would you want to, just close the browser

wds

I think ctrl-w closes the browser if on last tab

Benjol

@PiersMyers, bad question...

Harry Gindi

11:31 AM

@Benjol: thanks!

Benjol

btw @HarryGindi, if you click on the little arrow next to each message, you can do an explicit reply, which links your post that message.

When you rollover an @name message, you can see which one it was replying to

Harry Gindi

I am not going to use this dinky little trackpad to move the mouse if I can help it

oh, how can I move the tab bar to the bottom of the screen in firefox?

or like, change what buttons there are in the mainbar?

Piers Myers

@HarryGindi try the Tab Mix Plus add-on

Harry Gindi

@Pie: A further question: is it worth using the tm+ session manager? Are there any advantages?

Piers Myers

@HarryGindi yes, it is a great extension for managing your tabs, give it a try. If you don't like it then remove it, simple

Harry Gindi

11:40 AM

No, no no. There is a session manager in addition to the extra tab options

Piers Myers

@HarryGindi I also use the Operetta theme to make my Firefox look like Opera :)

Harry Gindi

All-in-one sidebar as well?

for downloads

Piers Myers

@HarryGindi I use all-in-one sidebar, tm+ and Session Manager (plus about another 50 extensions)

Harry Gindi

I don't see how to drop the tab bar to the bottom through tm+

Piers Myers

in options->Display->Tab Bar - select 'Postion' Bottom

having Multi-row option is pretty useful too

Harry Gindi

11:45 AM

Can I get rid of the google search bar in FF and replace it with the "search by first letter" thingy?

from the main address bar

devinb

you can replace what search engine is in that box.

Harry Gindi

that's not what I asked.

devinb

I didn't understand what you asked.

Harry Gindi

Opera has this awesome thing where if you want to search wikipedia, you click the address bar and type in "w foo"

or google is "g foo"

and you can add new ones and get rid of the old ones

devinb

AH! I'm not familiar with opera, but I'm fairly sure that someone has created a firefox plug-in for that. But yeah, I would have no idea where to get it. sorry man.

Harry Gindi

11:47 AM

it makes the separate search bar pointless

that's why I want to remove the search bar and the home button as well

Piers Myers

are you running at a screen resolution of 800x600?

Harry Gindi

No, but those things bother me

Piers Myers

have you tried Google Chrome? It has one search bar

Harry Gindi

google chrome is garbage

and it defeats the point of me changing browsers

since it doesn't support mathml

If it weren't for the fact that opera's support for mathML is dismal, I would not have decided to switch ten minutes ago

Basically, the devs at opera said that they have no intention of adding mathml support, so I'm not going to use opera anymore

devinb

@Harry you can remove the search bar and the home button.

Harry Gindi

11:54 AM

Got it.

devinb

:)

Benjol

@HarryGindi, maybe you want to check out YubNub

Piers Myers

get rid of all your toolbars and use the Ubiquity extension

devinb

@Harry, and in firefox you can customize which search engine it uses by default in the address bar.

but you can't do the one letter thing you were describing (as far as I know)

Harry Gindi

I had an extension that did it at one point

Piers Myers

11:57 AM

smart keywords explained here: johnbokma.com/firefox/keymarks-explained.html

Benjol

@devinb, with yubnub you get close - though it's in the search box, not the address box

devinb

@benjol cool

Harry Gindi

12:10 PM

@Piers nice

@Piers: How does one add inline searching with "." and disable the idiotic superbar

Piers Myers

@HarryGindi no idea, try searching for it in Google (or whatever you favourite search engine is)

Harry Gindi

I can't find out how to disable the dropdown on the address bar

err

figure out

got it

it's in the history menu of all places =\

Piers Myers

@HarryGindi learn how to program and create your own applications ("with blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the applications!")

Harry Gindi

Nah, I'd rather not. I've got too much else to do

devinb

12:28 PM

►

Harry Gindi

well, neato, it looks pretty similar to opera

Piers Myers

@devinb no, this:

►

Harry Gindi

All I need now is the ability to have a "background" tab that I can hide behind everything so I can minimize tabs.

rchern

@Harry, MathML doesn't work in Chrome because it isn't supported by WebKit iirc.

devinb

12:43 PM

@PiersMyers Well, yes, obviously I recognize that they're different quotes =P

Michael Haren

12:58 PM

What's the verb form of applying a rom to a device? e.g., I want to say, I rooted and rommed? my phone. this must be obvious...?

balpha

flash

Michael Haren

ah yes, thank you

Michael Mrozek

1:42 PM

There's been a sudden influx of SO discussion questions being posted on Reddit, which then turn into Reddit discussions. I'm not sure if this is funny or depressing, since I generally try and get people to start those discussions on Reddit in the first place

balpha

got an example?

Michael Mrozek

reddit.com/r/programming/comments/d55hl/…

reddit.com/r/programming/comments/d4z7q/…

(those are the two I just read; there were a couple yesterday too)

balpha

interesting

devinb

2:00 PM

Hey @Balpha do you have access to the raw DB?

Or... does the datadump include close votes and timestamps?

Michael Mrozek

@devinb No, just the timestamp when the post actually closed

devinb

I was just curious how many 3kers routinely use their powers and how often.

I would assume that most of them have a flurry of close votes around the time they hit 3k, and then it abruptly decreases.

badp

How would you tag a question about "Mukashi Mukashi Arutokoro ni Totetsumonaku Naka no Warui Twintail no Shimai Himesama ga Irasshaimashitatosa"?

Apparently it's a videogame

Chances are the title length was reasonable before the romanization :/

Lasse V. Karlsen

The tag for that would be: "ga"

badp

I'll settle for mmantnnwtnshgi

balpha

2:13 PM

@devinb blog.serverfault.com/post/893001713/…

devinb

I meant read access :p

by the by, I fully support that blog post, however allowing developers access to raw datadumps is also critical for bug-fixes.

balpha

agreed, but I'm not working on SO core at the moment

devinb

As a former maintenance coder, I assure you that the environments where I was allowed to look but not touch were wildly more stable than the environments where they beat us away with sticks.

@balpha it was a long shot. I just had some curiosity.

balpha

but I'm pretty sure the data dump does include close votes

I think the timestamps are rounded to a full day, but that should suffice

devinb

Yeah, it would.

I'll have to check that out.

Michael Haren

2:20 PM

@balpha this chat is pretty amazing. I'd love to see a montage that shows how it progressed. e.g. a series of screenshots that capture the design and feature evolution -- that could make a pretty cool presentation, actually

balpha

let's just say it used to be a lot uglier :)

but thanks for kudos

devinb

ahem shouldn't chat feedback be kept in chat feedback? I'll kick you if I have to!

also. Can I have the power to kick people...?

whistles innocently

Michael Haren

@devinb fair enough, my apologies

George Marian

heh

balpha

@MichaelHaren for what?

devinb

2:24 PM

@Geo

Flag this as spam

2

Q: The count of flagged posts seem decreased

On english.stackexchange.com, I have access to the moderation tools, and I have noticed that the number of flagged posts was first 5, and now it's 4. How is this possible? As far I can see, it's only possible to flag a post, not to remove the flag added to a post. I tried selecting 30d, 14d, ...

we're running an experiment

George Marian

eh?

Popular Demand

@badp I'm considering taking that bet.

George Marian

the meta post?

devinb

aye

thatI linked to.

@GeorgeMarian yes

George Marian

Ok, ok. It's too early in the morning. :)

Popular Demand

2:29 PM

@devinb Do you require an additional flag?

George Marian

one can flag the same post multiple times? or is it just a UI thing?

devinb

we need a spam flag on grace's post

just one will do :)

George Marian

@devinb Well, then...learn to link ;)

Popular Demand

@devinb Great, I wanted to flag that post anyways. I'm on it.

George Marian

ok, done

devinb

2:30 PM

1

A: The count of flagged posts seem decreased

To add on the other answers, diamonds actually can clear flags. Also, a post that gets rolled back will clear offensive flags. I can't flag my own post as offensive or spam. But I do need at least one revision to actual roll back from! And on a completely unrelated and spammy note, people shou...

@george it appears that you're right... shocking :p

George Marian

lol

Why is it shocking? :P

devinb

whistles innocently

Popular Demand

Is there a way to get from "recent highlights" back to the current chat without going through Rooms List or another third place (no pun intended)?

balpha

there's an "all" button where the "highlights" button was before

Popular Demand

@balpha Not so; I still have "recent highlights."

And yes, clicking it just reloads "recent highlights."

balpha

2:41 PM

oh, sorry

you went through the menu

yeah, that should probably change

Popular Demand

There's another entry point?

balpha

yes, at the very top of the chat

Popular Demand

@balpha Oh, that thing.

I always forget it's up there, hidden behind the scrollable area.

You may be happy to know those buttons do work on my machine.

balpha

yes! my life is finally complete!

Popular Demand

@balpha What will you do now?

balpha

2:44 PM

I don't know... Politics, maybe? Paleonthology?

Popular Demand

What, they don't have Disneylands where you live?

Not even a Disney embassy or consulate nearby?

Fosco

2

Q: MySQL row number

Hi, say I have a MySQL query, for example SELECT id, name, surname FROM employees ORDER BY id the result woud be id name surname 1 Peter Smith 2 John Banjo ... 1384 Will Levenstein While this is an ordered query, I can always assume (as long as I don't change the t...

mysql ordering

why lord why...

my brain hemorrhages

wds

still says highlights here, that button

or maybe I'm looking at the wrong button

balpha

it should say "highlights" when you're in normal mode and "all" when you're in highlights mode

devinb

3:11 PM

@balpha Unfortunately, the datadump does not include the UserId of the close voter.

balpha

no, of course not

I thought you just wanted a general "close votes per day" count

devinb

@balpha No I was actually curious about the makeup of a 3k user. Do they continually close vote, or do they take the new feature out for a spin, and then never use it again.

George Marian

Many miles to go before I sleep...

bbl

devinb

@balpha It's been pointed out (somewhere) that the information is ostensibly public, because they publish the usernames once it is closed.

balpha

does the API give "closed by"?

devinb

3:14 PM

Not sure, I'm just looking at the datadump.

balpha

hmm, no, it doesn't

api.stackoverflow.com/1.0/questions/3575857

Shog9

this has come up on Meta a few times. Close stats are pretty much impossible.

devinb

Maybe I can bribe @waffles.

into running the query for me.

Popular Demand

@devinb Devil's advocate: That argument doesn't take into account the votes cast on questions that are not ultimately closed.

devinb

@balpha Who would you say is the most corrupt (or corruptible) SO employee??

Popular Demand

3:19 PM

@devinb How does one bribe waffles? Maple syrup? The promise of not being eaten? The promise that they will be enjoyed when eaten?

devinb

@Popular That's why I said "ostensibly".

People have made the argument that they are public, and I don't necessarily agree. People could commence retaliations against even failed close attempts. However, in my case (I'm special) I was insinuating that I would craft a query and then someone with DB access would choose whether or not they thought it was acceptable.

@PopularDemand True, better than a bribe would be the threat of withholding maple syrup!

Popular Demand

@devinb I'll have to work this into my paper on SO psychology.

devinb

Which part? "I'm so special", "the rules don't apply to me", "it's not public until 4 people agree with me", "SO employees decide what information is public", "threaten to withhold maple syrup"?

Popular Demand

@devinb Mouseover to see what I was replying to. Or click the "this is a reply to" arrow.

Michael Haren

@devinb that's a pretty good summary of the last 50 messages..

Popular Demand

3:24 PM

@devinb What would you call this person? A Devalued Associate?

devinb

@PopularDemand Community Liason.

@PopularDemand @Marc's ears were burning.

Michael Haren

@PopularDemand how about "former associate"

Popular Demand

Ah, The Tavern, wherein the great Stack Exchange questions of our time are pondered.

Darrel Miller

What happened to the link that allows me to edit a tag wiki ?

Popular Demand

Is there a real name for the "this is a reply to" arrow? I've just been calling it the "left turn arrow" so far.

@DarrelMiller Do you no longer meet the requirements to edit a tag wiki?

"Tag wikis can be edited by users with more than 2000 reputation, provided:
They are in the top 20 answerers for this tag or
They have more than 100 answer upvotes in this tag"

I give up. That's supposed to be a blockquote.

Shog9

3:31 PM

multi-line mode in chat is not as useful as it would at first seem to be

Joe Phillips

why
do
you
say

that?

Popular Demand

@JoePhillips Because it has little positive utility, and it gives rise to abuse like you just committed.

Shog9

@JoePhillips because as soon as you add a second line, most of the markdown that would benefit from multiple lines doesn' t work

> blockquote (yay!)

Darrel Miller

I'm pretty sure I still meet the requirements. I'm top answerer and more than 400 upvotes.

Shog9

> no
block
quote (boo)

@DarrelMiller link...

Joe Phillips

3:33 PM

> fail
> quote?

Darrel Miller

@Shog9 stackoverflow.com/tags/rest/stats

Ok, forget it.

Either I'm really dense, or it magically just reappeared

I'm going to go for, the "it magically just re-appeared" :-)

Shog9

don't forget, this stuff split up a lot in the last day

devinb

no

Wait... how do I multi-line mode?

Shog9

shift+enter

devinb

shift +
enter?

Oh. yeah, that did it.

Shog9

3:36 PM

<kbd>shift</kbd>... HEY, BALPHA! NEED KBD SUPPORT!

devinb

you need to @ him.

Shog9

you @ him

devinb

@Shog9 @balpha Shog9 requests you at this location

balpha

status-declined

Shog9

status-oh-but-how-will-we-cope

devinb

3:38 PM

status-booze-drugs-and-women

Shog9

speaking of which... @balpha: the chat FAQ is sadly lacking in anchors.

Popular Demand

@devinb @balpha This is not a deathtrap in any way. There will be cake.

balpha

@Shog9 yes

Shog9

and `id`s <-- and that regexp still sucks

devinb

I didn't get it until a month ago.

Popular Demand

3:53 PM

@devinb Per the last panel, you are ahead of schedule. Please slow down.

devinb

@popular I didn't even realize which game the comic referred to, until right at the end.

the end of the game, not the comic.

well.... both, I suppose.

Shog9

honestly? Never knew it had any connection to gaming. Awesome metaphor though.

Popular Demand

@devinb Wow. I must have hung out in college around with people who were even geeky by programmer standards.

Popular Demand

4:16 PM

Quiet day.

Troggy

@Popular So what your saying is people are working?

Popular Demand

@Troggy Perhaps. I wonder what that means about yesterday and Tuesday.

Joe Phillips

I'm just reading reddit

wds

stop reading reddit and get to work dammit!

/me is going home tho

Shog9

4:38 PM

stop reading reddit and go read comments on youtube, dammit!

Popular Demand

@Shog9 And xkcd in 3... 2...

Troggy

@Devin That comic was me until last week. Finally ordered a nice machine to play a few newer titles in their full glory.

Popular Demand

Now there's a question for Gaming SE. "Wats better PC gaming or console gaming in every case ever kthxbbai"

Shog9

i'd sign up to answer that

;-p

Popular Demand

I think Grace Note might actually hunt me down and kill me if I posted that.

Shog9

4:50 PM

wait, they have mouses and keyboards for consoles now don't they...

might be a tough choice

Popular Demand

7

A: What to do with old laptop screens?

If you have the time and money, you could build a portable XBOX 360/Playstation 3, like this guy did.

Shog9

yerg...

i think i can trace my current lack of interest in gaming back to the first day I saw my roommates playing Halo with that horrible xbox controller.

Popular Demand

I missed that generation.

Shog9

you didn't miss anything good

mmyers

When one says "gaming", is one automatically assumed to be speaking of console gaming?

Fosco

4:55 PM

@shog9 I laughed hard when I logged in this morning and saw your comment about me being the 'resident nhibernate expert' :)

Popular Demand

@mmyers I don't think one can, if for no other reason than the cross-platform nature of many games.

Shog9

@Fosco HA!

wondered if you'd catch that... Was half-hoping the dude would still be around, waiting for you...

Fosco

hahaha

Joe Phillips

@Fosco that was me asking about it

im still waiting

Shog9

THERE HE IS! RUUUN!

Fosco

4:57 PM

@JoePhillips oh Hi Joe.. Shog9 was just kidding.. I am the anti-ORM commentator.

@JoePhillips Whatever it is you're doing with it... stop and just use SQL the way it was meant to be.

@JoePhillips You don't need an abstraction layer and not everything needs to be an object.

* This is all just my [subjective] [opinion]

Joe Phillips

thats what i was going to do but it will take a lot longer

Fosco

It might take longer, but it will work.

Reliably and sensibly, without any of the ORM's baggage or bugs.

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