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12:01 AM
@KevinB eh. I always felt in most communities - that's counter productive
@JourneymanGeek can't until Wed
@Mithrandir o0
Rest it and ice it first then
I am told frozen peas are awesome for that
Yeah, I was icing it today. Sleeping now
1 hour later…
1:09 AM
Folks, does the "participate in meta" privilege (kicks in at 5 rep) include all of these: post meta questions, post meta answers, upvote on meta, downvote on meta? (I has been a while since I've crossed that bridge.)
good question.
.... I don't remember ....
Time to create a sock?
@NickAlexeev only posting meta posts (Q&A). The rest (e.g. voting, editing, create tag) still follows their own privilege
I already have one. IT passed the mark. By accident.
frigging lucky HNQ ;)
At least I can test downvoting meta post on 101 rep...
1:12 AM
ooh true
@JourneymanGeek Me hatesssss HNQ... Me hatessssss it...
@NickAlexeev oh that's a bit of a funny story
I use a secondary account with work PCs - a lot of my jobs are chill with that but my work PCs are often untrustworthy and shifty so I don't want to use my main account.
I see a question I know an answer to, knock out a crappy one liner, forgetting I was on my secondary account...
and it HNQs.
It did answer the question, but I didn't expect to hit a few hundred points of reputation in the time it did
so... I edited it, and lost my low rep sock ;)
well, got a moderate rep sock
1:30 AM
Also, tying in to that earlier conversation on meta reputation....
and reputation as a whole.
@NickAlexeev Posting Q & A on meta.SE only requires 1 rep, as do a few other sites in the network (e.g. Code Golf, Ask Patents, and Stack Overflow in Japanese). The fact that the privilege page says 5 is a quirk. You can also post a question on a child meta with only 1 rep, but only about your own main-site question.
Especially on meta - I suspect the "social" effect probably has a outsized role. I've always treated meta as a sort of community run helpdesk, and for most part use it as a way to share and learn knowledge about the network from my perspective. I also try, as a non employee, to use it as a way to influence policy . Reputation's kind of a concequence of consistency, but I actually think where I can influence the network in ways I consider better has more value ;)
@PaulWhite The privilege pages for those sites should match the actual requirement. codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/privileges
@nicael That page is a global page that is inherited over all sites unless someone creates an "override page" for it, which was done on Code Golf when the level was changed, but not on any other sites. The "5" is a part of the text and not a variable. -- Aside: Currently the only sites where it is set to 1 are Code Golf, Ask Patents, and Stack Overflow in Japanese. — animuson ♦ Jan 19 '16 at 19:08
@Catija You may be right, but that wasn't the case at the time ^
1:35 AM
(which leads to an interesting, bikesheddy question I might ask here later ;) )
I also couldn't find anywhere in the help that talked about being able to ask about your own question on a child meta with only 1 rep, but I didn't look very hard.
@PaulWhite Yeah, we've added Worldbuilding to that list since that time and they also have the correct info on their privileges page.
So does AskPatents it seems.
@PaulWhite A good recommendations for MSE for an update to that help page. :) We need ot update them, anyway... and it's the case on MSO, too. If someone with under five rep tries to click on "ask question", it will explain it and ask them to include a link to the post they're trying to ask about.
yeah I know, I linked to that feature before
1:53 AM
@Catija the own question thing's a bit of a feature no one seems to know about IME
(though admittedly its a very strange situation since I suspect the point of time when you need to use it is super narrow, and a good many users get meta rights before they realise meta's a thing)
... that was terrible sentence construction. Lets try that again.
The "ask a meta question" about your own post feature's not very well known in my experience. Probably because to a large extent - folks manage to get enough reputation to post on meta before they need it. Its useful, but really hard to remember.
2:19 AM
I'm getting to used to it since it's quite often used in MSO. Also, since I stalk network-wide child meta...
3:04 AM
@Catija diamond mods fighting each other happily continues on EE.SE (see electronics.meta.stackexchange.com/q/6731/107479). As I say in a comment, this will only lead to a havy distrust from we users. Some action probably needs to be taken, whatever it is.
@Catija For the purpose of keeping the FAQ up to date, can I get a full list of sites that only require 1 rep to fully participate in the per-site meta? I noticed that MathOverflow was never mentioned, but the FAQ mentions it.
@dim Well, that fills in some context... :/
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I have no clue what the full list is, to be honest. I only know about WB because I remember the discussion about it when it was requested a few months back.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog which FAQ page are you referring to?
@PaulWhite Reputation requirements compared
Q: Reputation requirements compared

badpHow do reputation requirements for various privileges compare on Stack Overflow vs a graduated Stack Exchange 2.0 site vs a site in public or private beta? Return to FAQ Index

3:21 AM
ah I didn't even think to look there when trying to find information about posting on meta sites
@PaulWhite That's specific to MSE
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yep well it wasn't very informative, just saying that's as far as I got with the FAQ
@Catija well, I thought you had the context, sorry. Apparentlt CMs have been involved already, so... Anyway, I'll have hard time giving it to you without staying neutral, but it all started on some closed question (nothing extraordinary), but it drifted in public heated exchanges between W5V0 and Nick.
I'm a fairly impatient searcher at the best of times
3:28 AM
@dim Oh, I did. :) That CM is me... but I hadn't seen that meta post today. I got a ping earlier about it but no link to that meta.
@Catija sorry, I misinterpreted your reply. Ok, then. I'll let you handle this. But I don't know how it can be recovered without you taking sides. Seriously, this has to stop, it's getting terrible.
What's happening?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ehh. Something for CMs to deal with
No point butting in
@JourneymanGeek Doesn't mean you should hide things from me
3:35 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Well, rollback wars between mods, controversial closing/deletion, public heated exchanges, and stuff... Well, it is all on EE.SE meta. Look at my previous (and only) posts on this chat some days ago, it gives more context too.
That's a bit of a stretch, since it is in the transcript
@dim well. I have an opinion here but I'd rather not get in the way, or underfoot as it were
Small dogs come with that tendency. ;)
@JourneymanGeek We all have an opinion. And I'm pretty sure we all have the same, but I agree and, mydelf, trying to stzy neutral (at least here).
Damn, keyboard is too small, or fingers too fat...
@dim it's understood
3:41 AM
I did an excerpt for that incident...
Sep 10 at 15:22, by Somewhat
(for those who want to delve a bit deeper about the source of the rollback war.... actually not that deep... start from this meta post, then this, this, which perhaps initiated this and thus this
@JourneymanGeek here is the link in the transcript (nice joke included) chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=7222593#7222593
Two little words would have summarized it: "wheel war"
On Wikipedia, that results in the loss of administrator privileges for all involved users.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I personnally think one of them is behaving ok. So maybe that is a bit too much.
@dim even for non-regular like me, can't help staying neutral at this point...
@dim The policy there is that the "good" admin should raise the situation to bureaucrats/stewards instead of responding defensively.
3:48 AM
apparently both mods have raised the situation to CM
Yes it seems they did. Now, that is why I think CM should probably take additional actions to definitively fix that.
Anyway, I need to get some sleep now. Bye.
Have a sound sleep~
@dim I was there
I'm neutral here lol. The way the BBC is neutral :)
Oh, I thought I was, granted...
4:16 AM
But ya, I really think, looking at the bigger picture, and as a mod, I'll leave this to the cm team
4:43 AM
Perks of living in a new building with a concrete foundation: no dust allergy to worry about, and no dust gathering on things indiscriminately. Perfect for drying developed negatives.
I find it amazing that a youtube mix for a given artist contains just three songs from that artist - and zero total from the three artist listed as related to them.
5:18 AM
5:59 AM
Linus Torvalds apologize for not be nice
> I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to
understand people’s emotions and respond appropriately.
6:20 AM
@OptimusPrime The realisation you're hurting folks you work with/care about is a pretty powerful motivator for self improvement and change
On the other hand, I feel the fact he realised this is important
"We're reaching surrealism levels even dali would find uncomfortable" lol
I'll steal that
I would read anything that says that (and probably root around for phrases to steal like a trash panda)
Sep 10 at 14:54, by dim
I'm desperate. Has anyone already seen a rollback war between two diamond mods on a meta post? Right now on EE.SE, we're reaching surrealism levels even Dali would be uncomfortable with.
ahh ya
Also, stuff like that makes me wish there was a PM system on SE lol
6:23 AM
Don't mods have the TL?
Well, ya, but with something like this, it would probably not be a great place for it
Stack Overflow for Team Teacher's Lounge
I assume the two mods involved would just talk it out
mods are generally reasonable people
hmm, not letting go any mod seecrets -teams works best as a way to document stuff we need to share, rather than as a discussion space IMO
lemme go dig up an example off MSE
A: Add a moderator template for a pattern of bad answers

Journeyman GeekI have an unofficial one stowed away in case its needed. Its basically heavily cribbed from the poor quality question one, and I use it either from a copy I have stowed away somewhere or with a userscript for custom mod message templates from artofcode. It's worth considering I've used it less ...

consider something like this
@Magisch reading the last meta post on EE.SE, I'd kind of argue this...
6:29 AM
@Somewhat @Magisch that this hasn't happened is exactly why I don't really want to comment.
@OptimusPrime Let's hope that includes a lesson on how to apologize ;)
I've personally have moments where I disagree with mods both from my own site, and off. I've rarely had things spill over.
Granted, usually those end up with "Oh, ok!" or "Got a reference for that?"
And we don't know if they talked, or how it went, or anything beyond... angry comment threads.
Wise move
checking my last comment that "attacked" the mod...
A CM's on it. Unless you're best friends with both of them - I'm not sure how folks can help de-escalate it
Mhm. I'd expect mods to resolve internal misunderstandings that heavy internally rather then projecting it outwards, but I'm not privy to their circumstances, so I'll hold off on any judging :p
6:35 AM
So, a good chunk of my personal moderation style was developed in somewhere... that was basically a good ol boys club.
I somehow ended up being the mod of a West Virginia based battletech group's website ;)
At this point, the community is certainly unable to de-escalate it, unless they revolt :/
OTOH, I could only upvote comments, so...
@Somewhat hence leaving it to the CM team.
Heh... that's the first time I've seen someone call the comment policy on IPS 'draconian' AND saying they like it: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315538/… :P
Don't worry, I also support draconian comment policy...
though I'm probably hated by some on Anime.SE due to its entertainment nature...
@Tinkeringbell oh, he's kinda fond of the harder line on things IME
see his other meta posts
6:40 AM
draconian comment policy is all that saves IPS from becoming a bona fide discussion forum
@JourneymanGeek I just thought it funny, since 'draconian' usually means excessively harsh/severe... which means it's not a good thing ;)
also a real draconican comment policy is NO COMMENTS
@Magisch I know. I should answer that new meta to that extent too ;)
@JourneymanGeek NEIN
6:41 AM
@JourneymanGeek You're being quite shouty lately. Are you okay?
Someone swapped their Scooby Snack...
@Tinkeringbell yeah? ;p
@JourneymanGeek Okay, just checking. I thought there might be some frustration you were taking out :P
6:42 AM
@JourneymanGeek i'll have to step up then
@Somewhat Ugh, funny comments :P
@Mithrandir Yes, yes you do. We haven't had a proper amount of flags for a week or two now!
@Tinkeringbell lol, I'm trying to work out if there's progress on... the thing...
mom's basically going back to plan B, which she decided wasn't a good idea
@Tinkeringbell Yeah, I've been busy. Sorry :P Should be back on track next week.
@JourneymanGeek the thing?
^we've found your soulmate, @JourneymanGeek
6:44 AM
@Tinkeringbell I'm an open minded dude, but I do kinda insist the future mrs geek is female and the same species.
... "hey, your uncle suggested this other website, you should check...."
@JourneymanGeek Hmmmm...
You call that open minded? :P
@Tinkeringbell "I'd just as soon kiss a wookie" ? ;p
I think that's pretty open minded.
@JourneymanGeek That doesn't sound good...
sounds downright exhausting
@Tinkeringbell annd, the website dosen't work
6:48 AM
huh? "Only works on IE 7?"
no, I signed up and it threw me back to the starting page
You do not want a date that uses IE7
and dosen't like email addresses with fullstops
So is it just the website, or are the people using it also 'meh'? ;)
@Tinkeringbell few things.
1) my brother was matchmade online
so.. I don't really trust it.
I feel that doing things oldschool is what I'm comfortable with, but my parent's don't want to make the effort, or just botch it up
2) My brother didn't get told "hey, sign up for this random website, and go look"
they did most of the ground work, which I'm not seeing here.
I send ONE email cause my dad botched it, and I'm basically running the show
6:58 AM
As an ace person who'll likely face parental pressure to "settle" in the near future, I'll probably find another ace who's facing the same pressure. It'll be a win-win for all.
Now, I would really like my mom to take specific steps, which I'm not seeing.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Hmm, are there ace dating sites? Curious
@JourneymanGeek Eh, you may have brought that upon yourself then ;) You've shown you can be independent (and mail your own mails)... so they're saying 'take a look at this website and let us know what you like'?
@Mithrandir I'm also aro
7:00 AM
@Tinkeringbell ... on the other hand I've said repeatedly I need them to help
and asked them to do specific things before that which they botched too
If this was me and my parents, I would be doing it on my own by now. But I guess that's not an option?
hmm no
To complicate things there's someone they have been wanting to ask a while
her family is nutty so a little tact is needed
but she's actually a really good fit in terms of her experiences, various other stuff...
But you'd get nutty in-laws :/
Thankfully my dad is chill about it
fun part is, I could probably pull it off, so I figure if I get my jan vacation....
7:02 AM
and has accepted the fact that he'll never get grandkids
@Tinkeringbell she's my cousin's cousin so... they're already nutty in laws
(we arn't directly related)
she's my uncle's wife's brother's daughter
sprawling family tree eh
@Magisch My mom still has hope, as I said I may maybe adopt a kid if I really feel like I can raise them...
@Magisch oh man... if you knew ;)
My family probably ends with me. Both of my father's sisters have no kids and I'm the only kid my father has so if I have no children the entire family line ends :p
7:04 AM
You guys are all facing pressure to settle?
I'm not. or if I am I'm ignoring it
@Tinkeringbell I have a cousin who had problems getting a kid then adopted. Then ... erm... sudden kid. So they have two... lol
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I wish they would put more effort into pressuring me into settling ;)
@JourneymanGeek I'll make sure there's no sudden kids before going into adoption ;)
Owing to my ace-ness I'm not sure if I want a biological child
@Tinkeringbell there's a big complex thing with how motivated they are with that, but that's a loooong story not for public chat ;)
7:06 AM
@Magisch Consider this quote CC0. No attribution required. You're welcome.
@Tinkeringbell or after
Personally if nothing works out I'll probably move out and be a hermit of sorts ;)
@JourneymanGeek I'll make sure there's no possibility of sudden kids before going into adoption (which rules out after too ;) )
@JourneymanGeek hey, the kids won't be lonely
@Tinkeringbell oooooh
@JourneymanGeek Actually sounds better to me than all this ;)
7:08 AM
@Tinkeringbell well... erm...
Well, I kinda don't want that? ;p
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I know a couple who has done this. They're both asexual and aromantic. Both of them were friends, but faced pressure from their religious families (southern US). They married and had a kid and nobody is any the wiser, they're projecting the perfect picket fence family image.
@JourneymanGeek ;) I know...
@Magisch I do realise it depends on the "flavour" of asexuals but "had a kid" seems tricky
I know there's the sort who just arn't interested
but there's also the sort who're actively repulsed by that sorta thing
@JourneymanGeek Asexual doesn't mean you can't or that it'll traumatize you. Just that you have absolutely no need to
@Magisch its a bit of a spectrum!
I know some who just weren't interested
7:10 AM
pretty sure they didn't do it the normal way anyways and had some fertility treatment thing going on
and some who were super squicked out about it
but I never asked
@Magisch Interesting. Here it's common to see partners leaving their entire family behind just because of a dissatisfying sex life.
I also have some friends who arn't either but are childfree by choice.
7:12 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog If no intimacy is what both want, then it's a satisfying state of the relationship, no?
"Lets sit in seperate rooms and do our own thing together" ;)
My opinion is that it's a vicious evil. It can tear apart couples and families, leave children with low self-esteem, cause so much jealousy, just objectify people, etc. I feel thankful that I don't experience desire for it. Otherwise, don't know what would happen.
@JourneymanGeek I read an article yesterday: 35% of working moms feels guilty about working instead of spending time with their kids, mothers have 10 hours of free time a week (on average) and 40 percent feels that's too little, 40 percent has arguments with their partners because they perceive their partners have more free time, 67 percent would like to spend more time with their partner, 70 percents misses being childfree and 67 percent thinks raising a kid is harder than they thought
Now tell me it's such a great thing to have kids? :P
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog (hey, I'm currently editing a (fiction) book about a pill that makes people who take it temporarily ace... it's actually interesting, if rather badly translated)
@Tinkeringbell well, I think it depends ;)
7:14 AM
(gotta run, meeting. We'll continue this, I'm not done yet! :P )
In my family we kinda tend to pull our load. I'm pretty sure if mrs geek was temporarily incapscitated I could probably cover a lot of things...
@JourneymanGeek I maintain you could just visit a bar and find mrs geek in a less complicated way :p
@Magisch True. Trouble is, it can be upsetting to onlookers, which range from family members to, in some cases, immigration authorities who can wrongly perceive the marriage as "illegitimate".
@Magisch maybe - but ironically, there's a load of cultural pressure
and well... tbh, I've kinda not really gone "Oh she's cute! Maybe I should go talk to her" in ages
7:16 AM
@Tinkeringbell It is a prime intrinsic evolutionary imperative though :p
@Tinkeringbell have fun!
Also, in my jurisdiction (Texas), not consummating a marriage is a legal cause for annulment. Someone could theoretically annul such a marriage.
@Tinkeringbell Well, for the kid it is.
@Magisch I think as long as folks are clear about what they expect in a relationship, and they're both fine with it, anything goes.
If two folks go "hey, lets get married so people don't bother us"
its fine
But I'm just as cool with less .. well, traditional arrangements for other folks
with JMG saying he's cool all I can think of is Ash in sunglasses
7:19 AM
I got friends who're poly, one who's "its kinda complicated.".....
one into... fur(redacted)
complicated FTW
Practically the only "pros" for my marriage is reduced family pressure and reduced pressure in the eyes of the law (e.g. tax, etc.)
@Somewhat possibly
I know a few furries but I think its rude to ask if they Yiff.
@Mithrandir the user Ash walks in and mistakenly thinks you're referring to them, and not JG's dog
7:21 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm sure Ash the mod would be cool in sunglasses too.
@JourneymanGeek oh, i saw this the other day, and so slightly related:
@Mithrandir ._.
is there a bigger version?
(I'm having trouble seeing it, I'm sorry :( )
@Mithrandir As an ally to the gender-fluid community, I'm glad that Austin's making local businesses replace "men" and "women" signs on single-occupancy restrooms, and just sign them as "restroom".
7:23 AM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog (thumbs up)
@Mithrandir thankies!
... 9 3/4 ಠ_ಠ
@Somewhat .... dude.
San Diego's airport replaced their "accessible restroom" signs with "all-gender restroom" signs
I try not to judge but... how do you not get a harry potter reference ;)
7:25 AM
I don't follow HR 😔
"HR" Geiger? ;p
Happy rotter
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog now if only they'd do that here... but fat chance
@Mithrandir You're from Israel, right?
7:27 AM
One upside of gender-split bathrooms is that half of the people don't have to wait :P
@JohnDvorak ._.
technically it also means you can have half the bathrooms... ;)
drat :P
You have 2 doors, but they connect to the same toilet ._.
But also means folks who... well...
You wouldn't have creepy people asking if you were in the "correct" bathroom
@Somewhat ...that seems counter productive
7:30 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if males looked like males and females looked like females?
what a quiet day on Anime.SE...
@JohnDvorak I'm not even sure how to reply to that
I take it as a no
I'd like to yell at you, but I'd actually like you to understand why too.
7:32 AM
/me goes for a coffee instead
!!/tea Bart
There's folks, who well, don't quite fit that binary
I've got friends who're trans and well...
They're happier as they are, rather than trying to force themselves into acting as the wrong gender.
and there's folks who don't even fit into the male/female binary
I don't pretend to understand that, but hell, I'm going to respect that.
i don't deny it's complicated, but still...
dysphoria can be horrible. if you haven't experienced it, i don't think it's fair to judge those who have.
I don't deny that
7:37 AM
@JohnDvorak :/
so yes, that does result in situations where no, male doesn't always look like male and female doesn't look like female and someone who looks like either can actually something else
@JohnDvorak would it be nice if no one ever had to feel uncomfortable in their skin? Sure.
But the world isn't perfect, and there's a lot of folks who suffer from dysphoria, and we can be decent human beings to them ^^
I agree with that
@JohnDvorak that's good :)
Well, how brain works is... still a mystery...
7:42 AM
As a person with IED, I fully agree
John is an explosive device!? *runs*
*slaps Google* wrong de-acronym
close enough...
What's IED?
Intermittent explosive disorder (sometimes abbreviated as IED) is a behavioral disorder characterized by explosive outbursts of anger and violence, often to the point of rage, that are disproportionate to the situation at hand (e.g., impulsive screaming triggered by relatively inconsequential events). Impulsive aggression is not premeditated, and is defined by a disproportionate reaction to any provocation, real or perceived. Some individuals have reported affective changes prior to an outburst (e.g., tension, mood changes, energy changes, etc.).The disorder is currently categorized in the Diagnostic...
Intermittent explosive disorder
7:43 AM
ah ok
@Tinkeringbell There was a Tamil Movie Enthiran, in which, a scientist make a robot and gave it the ability to think and teach it emotions. It's the hardest part and yes Linus need someone like that
@OptimusPrime or just to realise that our actions have concequences on people around us
I'd say that emotions are actually the most basic part of the survival kit.
There's also... Ex Machina (2014)
I'm a recovering snarky git.
7:44 AM
git blame
something that always gets lost in the politically correct or "I shouldn't be forced to.." debate is that everything we do has consequences on those around us
(I hope everyone else has recovered from me too ;) )
@JourneymanGeek git rm snark
Its easy to go "snark is how I deal with the world" or "I'm so passionate that I don't care about the results of my actions"
But... there's results, and better ways? ;)
@Somewhat missed that. Want to see. Also chappie says a similar story
7:47 AM
@OptimusPrime chappie's basically empatic the whole time
the humans are monsters.
"I shouldn't be forced to ..." works both ways. And I find people with female dresses and heavy facial hair rather disturbing. Though, I've only ever seen one such case.
that sounds more like drag queening
@JohnDvorak well, you can choose not to react. And if someone is posting it 'as a joke' or 'to get a reaction', its very different from, well, someone who chooses to dress like that cause they want to
The issue is, gender dysphoria is a pretty debilitating condition. Being mildly grossed out doesn't even begin to compare
Is it?
7:49 AM
@JohnDvorak it is
@JohnDvorak Yes.
I've not really has it myself, but one of my best friends did
From people I know who have it, definitely is
(bleh, i'll just say it, i've hinted it enough times today: i'm non-cis)
He was a bit of a wreck, and seems a lot happier now.
7:51 AM
if someone is willing to risk going through HRT + reassignment surgery, save up to pay for associated costs, and accepts being completly disowned by their family just to have relief from that condition, then yes, that's pretty severe.
good point
@Magisch quite a bit more
there's also voice lessons, a ton of therapy, and people being arses to them
Let me just put it this way, if someone I know to be fairly reasonable and temperate decides to upend their entire social life, get disowned by their family and go through a risky medical procedure and comes out generally less depressed on the other end of that ordeal, I must assume that the condition being relieved by the whole thing must have been quite a drain on them
According to Wikipedia, just changing your biology doesn't completely fix the issue either...
and that psychotherapy is much more effective
yeah, and it comes with a host of follow up issues and risks. Still, people take the step
7:58 AM
@JohnDvorak "according to wikipedia" ._.
I can't use personal experience as my source, unfortunately

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