Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

00:01

@KevinB eh. I always felt in most communities - that's counter productive

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek can't until Wed

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir o0

Rest it and ice it first then

I am told frozen peas are awesome for that

Mithrandir

Yeah, I was icing it today. Sleeping now

Nick Alexeev

01:09

Folks, does the "participate in meta" privilege (kicks in at 5 rep) include all of these: post meta questions, post meta answers, upvote on meta, downvote on meta? (I has been a while since I've crossed that bridge.)

Journeyman Geek

good question.

.... I don't remember ....

Nick Alexeev

Time to create a sock?

Somewhat

@NickAlexeev only posting meta posts (Q&A). The rest (e.g. voting, editing, create tag) still follows their own privilege

Journeyman Geek

I already have one. IT passed the mark. By accident.

frigging lucky HNQ ;)

Somewhat

At least I can test downvoting meta post on 101 rep...

Journeyman Geek

01:12

ooh true

Nick Alexeev

@JourneymanGeek Me hatesssss HNQ... Me hatessssss it...

Journeyman Geek

@NickAlexeev oh that's a bit of a funny story

I use a secondary account with work PCs - a lot of my jobs are chill with that but my work PCs are often untrustworthy and shifty so I don't want to use my main account.

I see a question I know an answer to, knock out a crappy one liner, forgetting I was on my secondary account...

and it HNQs.

It did answer the question, but I didn't expect to hit a few hundred points of reputation in the time it did

so... I edited it, and lost my low rep sock ;)

well, got a moderate rep sock

Journeyman Geek

01:30

Also, tying in to that earlier conversation on meta reputation....

and reputation as a whole.

user194636

@NickAlexeev Posting Q & A on meta.SE only requires 1 rep, as do a few other sites in the network (e.g. Code Golf, Ask Patents, and Stack Overflow in Japanese). The fact that the privilege page says 5 is a quirk. You can also post a question on a child meta with only 1 rep, but only about your own main-site question.

Journeyman Geek

Especially on meta - I suspect the "social" effect probably has a outsized role. I've always treated meta as a sort of community run helpdesk, and for most part use it as a way to share and learn knowledge about the network from my perspective. I also try, as a non employee, to use it as a way to influence policy . Reputation's kind of a concequence of consistency, but I actually think where I can influence the network in ways I consider better has more value ;)

Catija

@PaulWhite The privilege pages for those sites should match the actual requirement. codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/privileges

user194636

@nicael That page is a global page that is inherited over all sites unless someone creates an "override page" for it, which was done on Code Golf when the level was changed, but not on any other sites. The "5" is a part of the text and not a variable. -- Aside: Currently the only sites where it is set to 1 are Code Golf, Ask Patents, and Stack Overflow in Japanese. — animuson ♦ Jan 19 '16 at 19:08

user194636

@Catija You may be right, but that wasn't the case at the time ^

Journeyman Geek

01:35

(which leads to an interesting, bikesheddy question I might ask here later ;) )

user194636

I also couldn't find anywhere in the help that talked about being able to ask about your own question on a child meta with only 1 rep, but I didn't look very hard.

Catija

@PaulWhite Yeah, we've added Worldbuilding to that list since that time and they also have the correct info on their privileges page.

user194636

So does AskPatents it seems.

Catija

@PaulWhite A good recommendations for MSE for an update to that help page. :) We need ot update them, anyway... and it's the case on MSO, too. If someone with under five rep tries to click on "ask question", it will explain it and ask them to include a link to the post they're trying to ask about.

user194636

yeah I know, I linked to that feature before

Journeyman Geek

01:53

@Catija the own question thing's a bit of a feature no one seems to know about IME

(though admittedly its a very strange situation since I suspect the point of time when you need to use it is super narrow, and a good many users get meta rights before they realise meta's a thing)

... that was terrible sentence construction. Lets try that again.

The "ask a meta question" about your own post feature's not very well known in my experience. Probably because to a large extent - folks manage to get enough reputation to post on meta before they need it. Its useful, but really hard to remember.

Somewhat

02:19

I'm getting to used to it since it's quite often used in MSO. Also, since I stalk network-wide child meta...

dim

03:04

@Catija diamond mods fighting each other happily continues on EE.SE (see electronics.meta.stackexchange.com/q/6731/107479). As I say in a comment, this will only lead to a havy distrust from we users. Some action probably needs to be taken, whatever it is.

Somewhat

03:15

Latest SEEN: Nomination has started on Server Fault, looking for 2, and Q&A collection has started on Emacs, looking for 1

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315588/…

@Catija For the purpose of keeping the FAQ up to date, can I get a full list of sites that only require 1 rep to fully participate in the per-site meta? I noticed that MathOverflow was never mentioned, but the FAQ mentions it.

Catija

@dim Well, that fills in some context... :/

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I have no clue what the full list is, to be honest. I only know about WB because I remember the discussion about it when it was requested a few months back.

user194636

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog which FAQ page are you referring to?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@PaulWhite Reputation requirements compared

user194636

107

Q: Reputation requirements compared

How do reputation requirements for various privileges compare on Stack Overflow vs a graduated Stack Exchange 2.0 site vs a site in public or private beta? Return to FAQ Index

user194636

03:21

ah I didn't even think to look there when trying to find information about posting on meta sites

user194636

I only looked at meta.stackexchange.com/q/47634

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@PaulWhite That's specific to MSE

user194636

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yep well it wasn't very informative, just saying that's as far as I got with the FAQ

dim

@Catija well, I thought you had the context, sorry. Apparentlt CMs have been involved already, so... Anyway, I'll have hard time giving it to you without staying neutral, but it all started on some closed question (nothing extraordinary), but it drifted in public heated exchanges between W5V0 and Nick.

user194636

I'm a fairly impatient searcher at the best of times

Catija

03:28

@dim Oh, I did. :) That CM is me... but I hadn't seen that meta post today. I got a ping earlier about it but no link to that meta.

dim

@Catija sorry, I misinterpreted your reply. Ok, then. I'll let you handle this. But I don't know how it can be recovered without you taking sides. Seriously, this has to stop, it's getting terrible.

Journeyman Geek

:(

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

What's happening?

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ehh. Something for CMs to deal with

No point butting in

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Doesn't mean you should hide things from me

Journeyman Geek

03:35

Lol

dim

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Well, rollback wars between mods, controversial closing/deletion, public heated exchanges, and stuff... Well, it is all on EE.SE meta. Look at my previous (and only) posts on this chat some days ago, it gives more context too.

Journeyman Geek

That's a bit of a stretch, since it is in the transcript

@dim well. I have an opinion here but I'd rather not get in the way, or underfoot as it were

Catija

Small dogs come with that tendency. ;)

dim

@JourneymanGeek We all have an opinion. And I'm pretty sure we all have the same, but I agree and, mydelf, trying to stzy neutral (at least here).

Damn, keyboard is too small, or fingers too fat...

Journeyman Geek

@dim it's understood

Somewhat

03:41

I did an excerpt for that incident...

Sep 10 at 15:22, by Somewhat

(for those who want to delve a bit deeper about the source of the rollback war.... actually not that deep... start from this meta post, then this, this, which perhaps initiated this and thus this

dim

@JourneymanGeek here is the link in the transcript (nice joke included) chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=7222593#7222593

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Two little words would have summarized it: "wheel war"

On Wikipedia, that results in the loss of administrator privileges for all involved users.

dim

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I personnally think one of them is behaving ok. So maybe that is a bit too much.

Somewhat

@dim even for non-regular like me, can't help staying neutral at this point...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@dim The policy there is that the "good" admin should raise the situation to bureaucrats/stewards instead of responding defensively.

Somewhat

03:48

apparently both mods have raised the situation to CM

dim

Yes it seems they did. Now, that is why I think CM should probably take additional actions to definitively fix that.

Anyway, I need to get some sleep now. Bye.

Somewhat

Have a sound sleep~

Journeyman Geek

@dim I was there

I'm neutral here lol. The way the BBC is neutral :)

dim

Oh, I thought I was, granted...

Journeyman Geek

04:16

But ya, I really think, looking at the bigger picture, and as a mod, I'll leave this to the cm team

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

04:43

Perks of living in a new building with a concrete foundation: no dust allergy to worry about, and no dust gathering on things indiscriminately. Perfect for drying developed negatives.

John Dvorak

I find it amazing that a youtube mix for a given artist contains just three songs from that artist - and zero total from the three artist listed as related to them.

Tinkeringbell

05:18

Morning!

Optimus Prime

05:59

Linus Torvalds apologize for not be nice

> I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to
understand people’s emotions and respond appropriately.

lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/16/167

Somewhat

Morning!

Optimus Prime

Morning!

Magisch

06:20

morning

Journeyman Geek

@OptimusPrime The realisation you're hurting folks you work with/care about is a pretty powerful motivator for self improvement and change

On the other hand, I feel the fact he realised this is important

Magisch

"We're reaching surrealism levels even dali would find uncomfortable" lol

I'll steal that

Journeyman Geek

0_0

where?

I would read anything that says that (and probably root around for phrases to steal like a trash panda)

Magisch

Sep 10 at 14:54, by dim

I'm desperate. Has anyone already seen a rollback war between two diamond mods on a meta post? Right now on EE.SE, we're reaching surrealism levels even Dali would be uncomfortable with.

Journeyman Geek

ahh ya

:(

Also, stuff like that makes me wish there was a PM system on SE lol

Magisch

06:23

Don't mods have the TL?

Journeyman Geek

Well, ya, but with something like this, it would probably not be a great place for it

Somewhat

Stack Overflow for ~~Team~~ Teacher's Lounge

Magisch

I assume the two mods involved would just talk it out

mods are generally reasonable people

Journeyman Geek

hmm, not letting go any mod seecrets -teams works best as a way to document stuff we need to share, rather than as a discussion space IMO

lemme go dig up an example off MSE

9

A: Add a moderator template for a pattern of bad answers

I have an unofficial one stowed away in case its needed. Its basically heavily cribbed from the poor quality question one, and I use it either from a copy I have stowed away somewhere or with a userscript for custom mod message templates from artofcode. It's worth considering I've used it less ...

consider something like this

Somewhat

@Magisch reading the last meta post on EE.SE, I'd kind of argue this...

Journeyman Geek

06:29

@Somewhat @Magisch that this hasn't happened is exactly why I don't really want to comment.

Tinkeringbell

@OptimusPrime Let's hope that includes a lesson on how to apologize ;)

Journeyman Geek

I've personally have moments where I disagree with mods both from my own site, and off. I've rarely had things spill over.

Granted, usually those end up with "Oh, ok!" or "Got a reference for that?"

And we don't know if they talked, or how it went, or anything beyond... angry comment threads.

Somewhat

Wise move

checking my last comment that "attacked" the mod...

Journeyman Geek

A CM's on it. Unless you're best friends with both of them - I'm not sure how folks can help de-escalate it

Magisch

Mhm. I'd expect mods to resolve internal misunderstandings that heavy internally rather then projecting it outwards, but I'm not privy to their circumstances, so I'll hold off on any judging :p

Journeyman Geek

06:35

^^^^ ZIIISSSS

So, a good chunk of my personal moderation style was developed in somewhere... that was basically a good ol boys club.

I somehow ended up being the mod of a West Virginia based battletech group's website ;)

Somewhat

At this point, the community is certainly unable to de-escalate it, unless they revolt :/

OTOH, I could only upvote comments, so...

Journeyman Geek

@Somewhat hence leaving it to the CM team.

Tinkeringbell

Heh... that's the first time I've seen someone call the comment policy on IPS 'draconian' AND saying they like it: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315538/… :P

Somewhat

Don't worry, I also support draconian comment policy...

though I'm probably hated by some on Anime.SE due to its entertainment nature...

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell oh, he's kinda fond of the harder line on things IME

see his other meta posts

Magisch

06:40

draconian comment policy is all that saves IPS from becoming a bona fide discussion forum

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I just thought it funny, since 'draconian' usually means excessively harsh/severe... which means it's not a good thing ;)

Journeyman Geek

also a real draconican comment policy is NO COMMENTS

IST VERBOTEN!

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I know. I should answer that new meta to that extent too ;)

Journeyman Geek

SUSPENSIONS FOR ALL COMMENTERS! EVEN THE GOOD ONES!

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek NEIN

Somewhat

06:41

HAIL GEEK!

Journeyman Geek

NO COMMENTS FOR YOU!

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek You're being quite shouty lately. Are you okay?

Somewhat

Someone swapped their Scooby Snack...

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell yeah? ;p

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Okay, just checking. I thought there might be some frustration you were taking out :P

Mithrandir

06:42

@JourneymanGeek i'll have to step up then

Tinkeringbell

@Somewhat Ugh, funny comments :P

@Mithrandir Yes, yes you do. We haven't had a proper amount of flags for a week or two now!

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell lol, I'm trying to work out if there's progress on... the thing...

mom's basically going back to plan B, which she decided wasn't a good idea

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, I've been busy. Sorry :P Should be back on track next week.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek the thing?

Mithrandir

^we've found your soulmate, @JourneymanGeek

Journeyman Geek

06:44

@Tinkeringbell I'm an open minded dude, but I do kinda insist the future mrs geek is female and the same species.

... "hey, your uncle suggested this other website, you should check...."

NOOOOOOO

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Hmmmm...

You call that open minded? :P

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell "I'd just as soon kiss a wookie" ? ;p

I think that's pretty open minded.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek That doesn't sound good...

Magisch

sounds downright exhausting

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell annd, the website dosen't work

Somewhat

06:48

huh? "Only works on IE 7?"

Journeyman Geek

no, I signed up and it threw me back to the starting page

Magisch

You do not want a date that uses IE7

Journeyman Geek

and dosen't like email addresses with fullstops

Tinkeringbell

So is it just the website, or are the people using it also 'meh'? ;)

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell few things.

1) my brother was matchmade online

so.. I don't really trust it.

I feel that doing things oldschool is what I'm comfortable with, but my parent's don't want to make the effort, or just botch it up

2) My brother didn't get told "hey, sign up for this random website, and go look"

they did most of the ground work, which I'm not seeing here.

I send ONE email cause my dad botched it, and I'm basically running the show

Tinkeringbell

06:58

:(

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

As an ace person who'll likely face parental pressure to "settle" in the near future, I'll probably find another ace who's facing the same pressure. It'll be a win-win for all.

Journeyman Geek

Now, I would really like my mom to take specific steps, which I'm not seeing.

Mithrandir

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Hmm, are there ace dating sites? Curious

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Eh, you may have brought that upon yourself then ;) You've shown you can be independent (and mail your own mails)... so they're saying 'take a look at this website and let us know what you like'?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Mithrandir I'm also aro

Journeyman Geek

07:00

@Tinkeringbell ... on the other hand I've said repeatedly I need them to help

and asked them to do specific things before that which they botched too

Tinkeringbell

If this was me and my parents, I would be doing it on my own by now. But I guess that's not an option?

Journeyman Geek

hmm no

To complicate things there's someone they have been wanting to ask a while

her family is nutty so a little tact is needed

but she's actually a really good fit in terms of her experiences, various other stuff...

Tinkeringbell

But you'd get nutty in-laws :/

Magisch

Thankfully my dad is chill about it

Journeyman Geek

fun part is, I could probably pull it off, so I figure if I get my jan vacation....

Magisch

07:02

and has accepted the fact that he'll never get grandkids

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell she's my cousin's cousin so... they're already nutty in laws

(we arn't directly related)

she's my uncle's wife's brother's daughter

Magisch

sprawling family tree eh

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch My mom still has hope, as I said I may maybe adopt a kid if I really feel like I can raise them...

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch oh man... if you knew ;)

Magisch

My family probably ends with me. Both of my father's sisters have no kids and I'm the only kid my father has so if I have no children the entire family line ends :p

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

07:04

You guys are all facing pressure to settle?

Magisch

I'm not. or if I am I'm ignoring it

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I have a cousin who had problems getting a kid then adopted. Then ... erm... sudden kid. So they have two... lol

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I wish they would put more effort into pressuring me into settling ;)

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I'll make sure there's no sudden kids before going into adoption ;)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Owing to my ace-ness I'm not sure if I want a biological child

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell there's a big complex thing with how motivated they are with that, but that's a loooong story not for public chat ;)

dim

07:06

@Magisch Consider this quote CC0. No attribution required. You're welcome.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell or after

Personally if nothing works out I'll probably move out and be a hermit of sorts ;)

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I'll make sure there's no possibility of sudden kids before going into adoption (which rules out after too ;) )

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek hey, the kids won't be lonely

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell oooooh

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Actually sounds better to me than all this ;)

Journeyman Geek

07:08

@Tinkeringbell well... erm...

Well, I kinda don't want that? ;p

Magisch

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I know a couple who has done this. They're both asexual and aromantic. Both of them were friends, but faced pressure from their religious families (southern US). They married and had a kid and nobody is any the wiser, they're projecting the perfect picket fence family image.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek ;) I know...

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I do realise it depends on the "flavour" of asexuals but "had a kid" seems tricky

I know there's the sort who just arn't interested

but there's also the sort who're actively repulsed by that sorta thing

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek Asexual doesn't mean you can't or that it'll traumatize you. Just that you have absolutely no need to

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch its a bit of a spectrum!

I know some who just weren't interested

Magisch

07:10

pretty sure they didn't do it the normal way anyways and had some fertility treatment thing going on

Journeyman Geek

and some who were super squicked out about it

Magisch

but I never asked

Journeyman Geek

ahh

ya

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Magisch Interesting. Here it's common to see partners leaving their entire family behind just because of a dissatisfying sex life.

Journeyman Geek

I also have some friends who arn't either but are childfree by choice.

Magisch

07:12

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog If no intimacy is what both want, then it's a satisfying state of the relationship, no?

Journeyman Geek

"Lets sit in seperate rooms and do our own thing together" ;)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

My opinion is that it's a vicious evil. It can tear apart couples and families, leave children with low self-esteem, cause so much jealousy, just objectify people, etc. I feel thankful that I don't experience desire for it. Otherwise, don't know what would happen.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I read an article yesterday: 35% of working moms feels guilty about working instead of spending time with their kids, mothers have 10 hours of free time a week (on average) and 40 percent feels that's too little, 40 percent has arguments with their partners because they perceive their partners have more free time, 67 percent would like to spend more time with their partner, 70 percents misses being childfree and 67 percent thinks raising a kid is harder than they thought

Now tell me it's such a great thing to have kids? :P

Mithrandir

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog (hey, I'm currently editing a (fiction) book about a pill that makes people who take it temporarily ace... it's actually interesting, if rather badly translated)

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell well, I think it depends ;)

Tinkeringbell

07:14

(gotta run, meeting. We'll continue this, I'm not done yet! :P )

Journeyman Geek

In my family we kinda tend to pull our load. I'm pretty sure if mrs geek was temporarily incapscitated I could probably cover a lot of things...

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek I maintain you could just visit a bar and find mrs geek in a less complicated way :p

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Magisch True. Trouble is, it can be upsetting to onlookers, which range from family members to, in some cases, immigration authorities who can wrongly perceive the marriage as "illegitimate".

Mithrandir

o_O

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch maybe - but ironically, there's a load of cultural pressure

and well... tbh, I've kinda not really gone "Oh she's cute! Maybe I should go talk to her" in ages

Magisch

07:16

@Tinkeringbell It is a prime intrinsic evolutionary imperative though :p

Somewhat

@Tinkeringbell have fun!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Also, in my jurisdiction (Texas), not consummating a marriage is a legal cause for annulment. Someone could theoretically annul such a marriage.

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell Well, for the kid it is.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I think as long as folks are clear about what they expect in a relationship, and they're both fine with it, anything goes.

If two folks go "hey, lets get married so people don't bother us"

its fine

But I'm just as cool with less .. well, traditional arrangements for other folks

Mithrandir

with JMG saying he's cool all I can think of is Ash in sunglasses

Journeyman Geek

07:19

I got friends who're poly, one who's "its kinda complicated.".....

Somewhat

one into... fur(redacted)

Mithrandir

complicated FTW

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Practically the only "pros" for my marriage is reduced family pressure and reduced pressure in the eyes of the law (e.g. tax, etc.)

Journeyman Geek

@Somewhat possibly

I know a few furries but I think its rude to ask if they Yiff.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Mithrandir the user Ash walks in and mistakenly thinks you're referring to them, and not JG's dog

Journeyman Geek

07:21

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm sure Ash the mod would be cool in sunglasses too.

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek oh, i saw this the other day, and so slightly related:

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir ._.

is there a bigger version?

Mithrandir

probably

Journeyman Geek

(I'm having trouble seeing it, I'm sorry :( )

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Mithrandir As an ally to the gender-fluid community, I'm glad that Austin's making local businesses replace "men" and "women" signs on single-occupancy restrooms, and just sign them as "restroom".

Mithrandir

07:23

i.pinimg.com/originals/b8/d0/0b/… might be larger?

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog (thumbs up)

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir thankies!

Somewhat

... 9 3/4 ಠ_ಠ

Journeyman Geek

@Somewhat .... dude.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

San Diego's airport replaced their "accessible restroom" signs with "all-gender restroom" signs

Journeyman Geek

I try not to judge but... how do you not get a harry potter reference ;)

Somewhat

07:25

I don't follow HR 😔

Journeyman Geek

"HR" Geiger? ;p

John Dvorak

Happy rotter

Mithrandir

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog now if only they'd do that here... but fat chance

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Mithrandir You're from Israel, right?

Mithrandir

yep

John Dvorak

07:27

One upside of gender-split bathrooms is that half of the people don't have to wait :P

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak ._.

technically it also means you can have half the bathrooms... ;)

John Dvorak

drat :P

Somewhat

You have 2 doors, but they connect to the same toilet ._.

Journeyman Geek

But also means folks who... well...

You wouldn't have creepy people asking if you were in the "correct" bathroom

Mithrandir

@Somewhat ...that seems counter productive

John Dvorak

07:30

Wouldn't it be nice if males looked like males and females looked like females?

Mithrandir

...

Somewhat

what a quiet day on Anime.SE...

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak I'm not even sure how to reply to that

John Dvorak

I take it as a no

Journeyman Geek

I'd like to yell at you, but I'd actually like you to understand why too.

Bart

07:32

/me goes for a coffee instead

Somewhat

!!/tea Bart

Journeyman Geek

There's folks, who well, don't quite fit that binary

I've got friends who're trans and well...

They're happier as they are, rather than trying to force themselves into acting as the wrong gender.

and there's folks who don't even fit into the male/female binary

I don't pretend to understand that, but hell, I'm going to respect that.

Mithrandir

i don't deny it's complicated, but still...

dysphoria can be horrible. if you haven't experienced it, i don't think it's fair to judge those who have.

Journeyman Geek

^^^

John Dvorak

I don't deny that

Magisch

07:37

@JohnDvorak :/

Mithrandir

so yes, that does result in situations where no, male doesn't always look like male and female doesn't look like female and someone who looks like either can actually something else

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak would it be nice if no one ever had to feel uncomfortable in their skin? Sure.

But the world isn't perfect, and there's a lot of folks who suffer from dysphoria, and we can be decent human beings to them ^^

John Dvorak

I agree with that

Mithrandir

@JohnDvorak that's good :)

Somewhat

Well, how brain works is... still a mystery...

John Dvorak

07:42

As a person with IED, I fully agree

Mithrandir

John is an explosive device!? *runs*

*slaps Google* wrong de-acronym

Somewhat

close enough...

Journeyman Geek

What's IED?

John Dvorak

Intermittent explosive disorder

Intermittent explosive disorder (sometimes abbreviated as IED) is a behavioral disorder characterized by explosive outbursts of anger and violence, often to the point of rage, that are disproportionate to the situation at hand (e.g., impulsive screaming triggered by relatively inconsequential events). Impulsive aggression is not premeditated, and is defined by a disproportionate reaction to any provocation, real or perceived. Some individuals have reported affective changes prior to an outburst (e.g., tension, mood changes, energy changes, etc.).The disorder is currently categorized in the Diagnostic...

Somewhat

Intermittent explosive disorder

Journeyman Geek

07:43

ah ok

Optimus Prime

@Tinkeringbell There was a Tamil Movie Enthiran, in which, a scientist make a robot and gave it the ability to think and teach it emotions. It's the hardest part and yes Linus need someone like that

Journeyman Geek

@OptimusPrime or just to realise that our actions have concequences on people around us

John Dvorak

I'd say that emotions are actually the most basic part of the survival kit.

Somewhat

There's also... Ex Machina (2014)

Journeyman Geek

I'm a recovering snarky git.

Somewhat

07:44

git blame

Magisch

something that always gets lost in the politically correct or "I shouldn't be forced to.." debate is that everything we do has consequences on those around us

Journeyman Geek

(I hope everyone else has recovered from me too ;) )

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek git rm snark

Journeyman Geek

Its easy to go "snark is how I deal with the world" or "I'm so passionate that I don't care about the results of my actions"

But... there's results, and better ways? ;)

Optimus Prime

@Somewhat missed that. Want to see. Also chappie says a similar story

Journeyman Geek

07:47

@OptimusPrime chappie's basically empatic the whole time

the humans are monsters.

John Dvorak

"I shouldn't be forced to ..." works both ways. And I find people with female dresses and heavy facial hair rather disturbing. Though, I've only ever seen one such case.

Mithrandir

that sounds more like drag queening

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak well, you can choose not to react. And if someone is posting it 'as a joke' or 'to get a reaction', its very different from, well, someone who chooses to dress like that cause they want to

Magisch

The issue is, gender dysphoria is a pretty debilitating condition. Being mildly grossed out doesn't even begin to compare

John Dvorak

Is it?

Journeyman Geek

07:49

@JohnDvorak it is

Mithrandir

@JohnDvorak Yes.

Journeyman Geek

I've not really has it myself, but one of my best friends did

Magisch

From people I know who have it, definitely is

Mithrandir

(bleh, i'll just say it, i've hinted it enough times today: i'm non-cis)

Journeyman Geek

He was a bit of a wreck, and seems a lot happier now.

Magisch

07:51

if someone is willing to risk going through HRT + reassignment surgery, save up to pay for associated costs, and accepts being completly disowned by their family just to have relief from that condition, then yes, that's pretty severe.

John Dvorak

good point

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch quite a bit more

there's also voice lessons, a ton of therapy, and people being arses to them

Magisch

Let me just put it this way, if someone I know to be fairly reasonable and temperate decides to upend their entire social life, get disowned by their family and go through a risky medical procedure and comes out generally less depressed on the other end of that ordeal, I must assume that the condition being relieved by the whole thing must have been quite a drain on them

John Dvorak

According to Wikipedia, just changing your biology doesn't completely fix the issue either...

and that psychotherapy is much more effective

Magisch

yeah, and it comes with a host of follow up issues and risks. Still, people take the step

Journeyman Geek

07:58

@JohnDvorak "according to wikipedia" ._.

John Dvorak

I can't use personal experience as my source, unfortunately

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