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12:00 AM
This is magnified for users like me without as much reputation, as the differences between levels are so little that the relative loss is magnified
 
OK, that's a pretty bad idea
 
@M.A.R. What is?
 
Many are rightfully complaining that the downvote penalty is too low
If you take it away, there's no real way to tell newbie users that their idea is bad
No one listens to people in comments
 
Think about the initial proposal about the licensing change. People upvoted it because they thought it was important and well-written, but disagreed with it in the comments. The SE team proceeded on because "85% of the votes were upvotes".
 
OK OK, I'm confused. What's your proposal, again?
Isn't it about removing the penalty for downvotes on meta.SE?
 
12:03 AM
@M.A.R. No, I haven't proposed anything yet. I will do so in just a second
I would propose this: the normal set of votes would be used solely to indicate quality, as they are for main sites and questions on meta sites, while we would introduce a new, separate set of "agreement/disagreement" votes that wouldn't affect reputation in any way.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog well, this is exactly how it works. We usually discuss feature requests and whether they're cool, stupid or stellar before posting them
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog alright. So for a new voting system, you need to show why the current one is flawed
And you losing a bunch of rep isn't a good example
Because it's earned way more easier than it's lost
The reason this FR would fail, in my opinion, is the problem with the current system isn't drastic enough to urge change
And an increase in complication
Ha, we're already in a lot of trouble teaching people how to use the two frigging arrows.
Plus, your proposal isn't going to address the underlying issue you're unhappy about.
Now I feel like talking in a bathroom alone. And the sound is echoing.
 
The current voting system makes people, especially those somewhere on the autism spectrum (like me), perplexed. "The question is clearly well-written and shows clear research effort, but just because you disagree with it it suddenly isn't written well enough and shows too little research effort. What is going on?"
Back in 2013, when I contributed here, this was absolutely perplexing for me. It took me a very long time to finally get it.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog oh, you mean the tooltip?
187
Q: Change upvote/downvote tooltip on meta sites

TshepangSince voting on meta sites mean something different on the main sites, can you change the tooltip as well: This question is useful and clear --> I agree This question is unclear or not useful --> I disagree This answer is useful --> I agree This answer is not useful --> I disagree ...or somet...

 
@M.A.R. Not just the tooltip. It was confusing for me as to why s and other questions (including those on main sites) were held to different standards. I couldn't understand it.
 
Well, it's a culture a community develops
Doesn't necessarily make sense
The only thing newer individuals like us can do is adapt
But I guess agreement/disagreement is the only sensible option for FRs
 
12:16 AM
@M.A.R. Being on the spectrum makes it more difficult for us to adapt.
 
You just have to ensure what you're proposing is absolutely a good idea to avoid downvotes
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog well, you just found the secret to avoiding unpopular posts in the future
Discussing stuff in chat before posting them
 
Look, what goes on in my mind is "hey, I had 127 steps to go before I get to see view counts. But just because I expressed an unpopular opinion, I've been thrown back two steps; now I need 129."
 
I even discussed bugs here
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog you're looking at the empty space in the glass
It will obviously be disheartening
 
Society tells us that we should speak our mind out if we disagree with something. But I, as well as several AS people I know both IRL and online, have had a life of being forced into the corner if we say something people disagree with. To us, it feels like the same thing is happening again.
I.e. it's part of the same pattern, not some isolated incident (because NTs a.k.a. non-AS people don't usually experience such a thing as a systemic pattern).
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog we can always speak our minds, but we should accept the consequences
I'm sorry for your condition. I'm personally suffering a rare illness.
 
12:22 AM
I think this behavior of voting on FRs like this presents a genuine inclusivity problem. @Shog9 I think you should take a look into it
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I think you should take a look at some vote-related proposals here and on Meta.SO
This stuff you say has already been discussed a lot
And the result was either the OP was wrong or this system is the best we can come up with
There is also two things: 1, earning rep on meta.SE is super easy compared to other sites, so this works for you and you shouldn't complain
 
@M.A.R. From what I can tell, no one has ever raised the issue of inclusivity for people like me.
 
2, the privilege you wholeheartedly strive for isn't really something special
 
@M.A.R. AS people have great ideas. Einstein was AS.
(I can't believe it, I keep striking Enter instead of ')
 
You're free to open up a post about how tough the voting system can be on AS people
But I don't think anything can come of it
You haven't still proposed something that would be a better idea than the current system
 
12:28 AM
@M.A.R. Ideologically you shouldn't be losing your hard-earned rep just for suggesting something that is unpopular.
(Hold on a second as I write replies)
 
Adding a layer of complexity only makes things harder, esp. for nonnative speakers and AS
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog OK
 
@M.A.R. I can say, this behavior has had a chilling effect on my overall willingness to suggest ideas. Which is detrimental to a community where ideas should be free-flowing.
@M.A.R. I understand, especially seeing as the work on Channels, etc. has diverted resources from Q&A development.
27 mins ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
I would propose this: the normal set of votes would be used solely to indicate quality, as they are for main sites and questions on meta sites, while we would introduce a new, separate set of "agreement/disagreement" votes that wouldn't affect reputation in any way.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Careful what you wish for. I don't want ridiculous ideas from people who don't know what they're talking about just because it's free-flowing. It's exactly what a voting system is meant to prevent. The most stupid ideas are posted anyway, because their OPs don't even know they don't know. But no, I don't want a flurry of ideas. I want few, good ideas.
 
@M.A.R. I think this would make things simpler. While the overall code would be more complex and it would be just a teeny bit more complex for NTs used to the current system, it would make things much simpler for AS people and perhaps for newer NTs. Regular votes would just be for quality, nothing else, everywhere. A separate set of dis/agreement votes would make things simpler to understand and not an outright mess for people like me.
(Done)
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog as I said, adding a layer of complexity only makes things harder for nonnative speakers. We can't teach them how to use one pair of votes. How would we teach them to use two?
 
12:35 AM
@M.A.R. Nonnative English speakers, you mean?
 
Yeah, I'm too lazy to type it all out
Let's just call them NNS
 
@M.A.R. OK
@M.A.R. Obviously ridiculous ideas would likely show no research effort to understand the ideologies of the system, and thus eligible for regular downvotes under my proposed system.
 
7
Q: Advice on rehabilitating an unpopular Meta question (or not)

Peter AlfvinI recently submitted an MSO discussion question. In very short order it has been downvoted to the point where it appears on the rogues gallery of downvoted questions (i.e. the last page of questions sorted by votes, with 50 per page). It also has by far the worst net-votes-to-total-views rating o...

And it's dupe master are good readings
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I don't think we're getting anywhere. I keep insisting it's too complex a system, and you keep insisting it's a good idea. It's of course a good idea in an ideal world, where everyone knows their place and how to vote. Plus, it's 4 a.m. man! :) I need sleep.
 
@M.A.R. Good night :)
Here's the conversation about it, @Shog9: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/89/conversation/…
Huh, I just discovered a bug in the chat system
 
 
1 hour later…
1:58 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I'm... Kinda exhausted. Give me the 1 sentence summary.
 
2 hours ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
I would propose this: the normal set of votes would be used solely to indicate quality, as they are for main sites and questions on meta sites, while we would introduce a new, separate set of "agreement/disagreement" votes that wouldn't affect reputation in any way.
 
Rob
@Shog9 As far as I can gather; two voting systems for meta. One that affects reputation, one that doesn't.
 
eh...
hard enough to get folks to use 1 voting system
 
Rob
In order to distinguish between an objectively bad question and a subjectively bad suggestion
 
I guess the idea is to make it so that people with low rep are less scared to post off the wall ideas on meta for fear of losing rep.
 
2:10 AM
I... kinda feel like rep is the least of the problems in that area
Folks tend to hate disemboweling criticism more than rep-loss
And... crickets more'n anything
Both of which are not infrequent
 
You also have the most rep on MSE... I'm not low rep here... but I admit to bouncing ideas off of people in the TL to see if I'm being stupid before asking.
 
well, so do I. Why wouldn't you?
In a large group, do you jump on a chair as soon as an idea pops into your head and scream it at the room? Or do you talk to a friend standing nearby first?
 
That said... Not losing rep doesn't change that... I just posted a meta on IPS and I'm scared shitless how it's going to go even though I won't lose rep.
@Shog9 I've known people who do the former... both IRL and here...
 
@Shog9 I'd love to see a community where everyone does this
 
@Catija yeah. And boy howdy, don't it feel good to downvote them?
 
2:14 AM
@Shog9 hahaha... yeah.
... I mean... no... that's terrible... poor people who don't think before they meta.
 
Everyone thinks ideas are valuable. Like they're ounce-sized gold nuggets, and the hard work is just digging them out of the ground. But it's research and refinement that's worth something; ideas are more like bauxite: common, easy to obtain, expensive to refine.
 
user202362
why, you don't think your company's CEO should also keep a hobby pig farm? How could you, it's such a brilliant idea! </trollololo>
 
Eh... that's something that I've learned here... I've talked to people arguing over the finer points of how something should be implemented here and all I've ever realized is that the basic, general thoughts of what someone comes up with are probably all that's going to get implemented... y'all have so much to deal with on your end and put your own spin on things... we can talk through it all but we can't really direct what gets implemented in the end.
So, I try not to get too bogged down in the details. It's the general concept that's important.
 
2:37 AM
@Shog9 We need more mules.
 
I think we should be selling more shovels
who wants to buy a cryptocurrency site?
 
The market's flooded...
Even if you could sell one, you'd probably not get much for it.
 
new plan: wait for them all to crash, buy up cheap video cards, sell them to gamers to drive traffic to Arqade
 
I still think you need to make the megabot site Cryptocurrency & Blockchain.
 
fad.se
Audience: people interested in computers, the internet, and related things that will shortly go the way of the hula-hoop
 
2:46 AM
Pogs...
 
user202362
@JonEricson great idea, mules can be mistaken as unicorns too ... donkey might be cheaper but mules definitely look ... more majestic if you know what I mean ...
 
user202362
 
user202362
pattern recognition probably would return 97% match between a unicorn and a mule ...
 
@TelautonomousKitty I really meant logarithm, like Skeet's reputation is just a mere 6 now...
 
user202362
2:57 AM
makes sense, newbs starts with 0 (e^0 = 1)
 
user202362
I am on 3, which is half of max realised reps
 
If you go by DNA, we're pretty close to paramecia
 
user202362
true, we are very close to paramecia DNA wise than to a piece of rock
 
3:24 AM
I'd rather replace all humans by paramecia than all paramecia by humans
 
3:56 AM
donkeys are adorable
 
donkey kongs
 
not sure they make kongs for donkeys, only dogs.
 
uni kong!
 
flagged as spam, since the linked site doesn't point to Bitcoin's official site, but a Spanish something site...
oh, according to "About Me", it's his site. spam.
 
5:00 AM
 
There's a laptop in my eyes!
 
I didn't know balls of rope had eyes
 
maybe it's a potato rolled up in string?
 
5:17 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: Invite Friend Through Social Links for Magento 2 by Praveen Chelumalla on magento.SE
 
5:40 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in answer, pattern-matching website in answer: Which exchange should I trust to provide ether price in USD? by Rom on ethereum.SE
 
7:04 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad pattern in URL answer: Is it safe to leave a gas oven on unattended? by TinaMcClelland on cooking.SE
 
7:15 AM
@SensibleAlexander that must hurt a lot
 
 
1 hour later…
9:02 AM
Why there's no deep earth exploration, compared to deep space exploration?
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Does "course" include "seminar"? by Nick Goe on ell.SE
 
 
2 hours later…
10:39 AM
> How to Store Authentication Data in a Database. Part 5

> ... In this article, we’ll look at two approaches to this and the implementation of one solution. In particular, we’ll consider:

> - How Stack Overflow handles multiple accounts
Nice to see SO as a study case :)
 
@Shog9 That's not the correct summary; just a potential proposal I came up with on the side. The correct summary is this: I believe that the current voting system on meta presents a genuine inclusivity issue for people like me.
 
78
Q: Downvotes on Meta are confusing: do they *really* mean poor-post quality, or just disagreement?

user456814I realize that this is specifically addressed in "What is "meta"? How does it work?": Voting is different on meta. Like normal Stack Exchange sites, Meta allows members to vote on questions and answers. For most posts, votes reflect the perceived usefulness: well-written, well-reasoned, ...

 
@SensibleAlexander It's less of a problem on per-site metas since no rep changes are taking place.
Back in 2013-2014, I'd often post what I predicted were bad ideas onto Meta Super User instead.
Those of you commenting on what I'm saying or the proposal on the side: please read the full conversation to get the full context
 
10:56 AM
Ah, reputation... then I guess this? (back then when MSO is still the mother meta)
16
Q: The reputation system on Meta Stack Overflow is somewhat weird to understand

Derek 朕會功夫After spending some time on Meta Stack Overflow, I realized the voting system here is completely different. The votes are used for agreement or disagreement toward the question/request and the answer itself instead of quality. However, by downvoting a post, it will also decrease one's reputation ...

 
I tried hard to understand the conversation: so, you want to have another voting system for feature request that doesn't affect rep?
 
@SensibleAlexander I was just tossing around that idea. Read the second half of the conversation, which explains how the current voting system (IMO) disenfranchises AS people. Starting here: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/6620872#6620872
 
11:15 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your condition. Anyway, I failed to find any posts related to voting system and AS on MSE. Feel free to post, I'm not sure I can comment further.
 
11:29 AM
@Shog9 Read the second part of the conversation to better understand my plight. Start with the message linked above.
 
12:19 PM
TGIF! Now, to hunt for meta drama...
 
12:47 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: A soft floor cover to use with a standing desk by Mat on lifehacks.SE
 
I'm now curious to the recent anon editor on Anime & Manga...
 
1:06 PM
@SensibleAlexander Not me. If anything, I'd likely be editing under my actual account.
 
1:26 PM
0
Q: Unknown characters in developer story date

Sagar VIn the developer story section, 3 unicode characters are appearing just before the date. ( red freehand circles in image) while inspecting, it seems like chrome misinterpret the spaces to the unicode characters Chrome V 63 "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (K...

a post after few months
!!/blame all hedgehogs
 
@OptimusPrime It's Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog's fault.
 
good catch
> oops seems like it's not happening on incognito. I think one of the extension convert the separator dot to this character. deleting post... – Sagar V 12 secs ago edit
 
 
1 hour later…
2:41 PM
Thanks @rene for the dupehammer.
@rene If you could please add meta.stackexchange.com/questions/47634/… to the duplicate list that would be very nice.
@ShadowtheHedgehog ^^
 
3:00 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog serious? Because I have doubts now that they edited.
 
@rene Hence my suggestion afterwards to add that other question to the duplicates list.
 
Ok, I've done that.
Is there anything else I need to do / comment / suggest on that question?
Left another comment. I'm done for now
and i have work to do, I'm out
 
Nope, that's it, @rene. Thank you very much!
 
Good job, @rene ;)
 
3:16 PM
Ugh... Yume Nikki's discussion forum on Steam is a trainwreck
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: How could SEARCHING for AUDIO CLIPS be improved? by noVaSon on sound.SE
 
sd f
she's a software engineer from JetBrain
 
4:41 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: How to Recover Exchange File by Kagas George on security.SE
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: How can I connect a kinect to my raspberry pi by Jarret Quincel on raspberrypi.SE
 
 
2 hours later…
6:41 PM
Like A Boss
 
6:56 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body, blacklisted user: How could SEARCHING for AUDIO CLIPS be improved? by noVaSon on sound.SE
 
 
2 hours later…
8:29 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog look, I'm not trying to be rude... But I really do not have the time. If you want to have a conversation, then begin a conversation don't throw me a link to a conversation with someone else; I have plenty of those to read already. If you just want to make a point and have folks read and consider it, then kick off a meta discussion in which you state your argument and present evidence to support it.
 
@Shog9 Okay, I'll do that in a little while. But I did post a summary here: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/6621379#6621379
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog there's no rationale for that.
 
@Shog9 What do you mean?
 
every group presents an "inclusivity issue" for anyone not in that group; they must either address the group as an outsider or find a way to become part of the group, and neither one is trivial.
Why is meta especially difficult for you vs. someone who just joined Stack Overflow to ask a question vs. a newly-hired co-worker of mine vs. a reporter for NYMag?
 
@Shog9 Truth is, I've been holding off on making such a post because it could be perceived as just a rant. I saw you edited someone's similar post about a mental health issue, which was at first perceived as a rant as well.
 
8:34 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I do things like that hoping others see them and learn from it
When I show up a few hours late and make such an edit, there's little chance of altering the course of the question I'm editing - at best it's a long shot. But it sets an example for those who might wish to do better in their own questions or offer aid to the next problematic question they see posted.
 
Also, before posting it, I want more community input to be absolutely sure I'm not just repeating something that's been already addressed
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog read this: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/272607/…
 
@Shog9 The accepted answer doesn't really address reputation.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog because it's mostly irrelevant
 
On per-site metas, your reputation doesn't change. But on MSE, your reputation goes down if you propose something unpopular, which has a few things wrong with it: 1. you can get privileges taken away and be set further away from future ones just for proposing something unpopular, even if you did your research and wrote the request well, 2. the voting system is especially confusing for autists because (chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=6620872#6620872), and 3...
 
8:43 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog the fallacy there is assuming that something is well-researched and well-written and folks are downvoting it for reasons that are outside of the control of the author
 
3. we AS people have had a life of being pushed away from groups and losing social standing for proposing unpopular things in real life, and it has a chilling effect on our willingness to come up with ideas. This voting system is basically a reflection of that.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog so why do you want to propose unpopular things on meta?
 
You said you were worried about it looking like a rant... if you follow those guidelines, you're going to avoid that... which means that, even if people disagree with you, you'll probably get fewer downvotes, more upvotes and less damage to your reputation... but there are lots of questions on MSE about getting rid of rep on MSE entirely or changing penalties for downvotes...
 
@Shog9 What about this answer? Isn't that an exact reflection of that?
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog why do you think that answer is well-written?
what point did you wish to convey with it?
 
8:47 PM
@Shog9 I don't want to propose unpopular things. I just don't want this fate to befall on ideas that just end up being not-so-well-received.
If I know something will be unpopular, I'd just mark it as CW to ensure I don't lose rep
...or propose it on a per-site meta
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog this puts the cart before the horse. Generally-speaking, a universally-unpopular idea will not be implemented; more broadly, a largely-unpopular proposal will do little to further the cause it seeks to support - thus it's safe to say that even if the cause is eventually adopted, it will be in spite of the proposal not because of it.
Therefore, if you support an idea but are at a loss as to how to garner support for it... You're better off saying nothing until you arrive at a persuasive argument.
 
21 hours ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
I would propose this: the normal set of votes would be used solely to indicate quality, as they are for main sites and questions on meta sites, while we would introduce a new, separate set of "agreement/disagreement" votes that wouldn't affect reputation in any way.
(you can quote messages by posting a link to them on a line by themselves - this saves a good deal of time)
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog That's the one I quoted yesterday that you said wasn't what you were actually proposing...
 
I don't like splitting messages
 
8:51 PM
I don't like having to open new tabs to read messages...
 
@Catija I didn't say that. I said it wasn't my summary. @Shog9 had asked for a summary.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog maybe I'm out of steam for the day but I glanced this answer over and I have no idea what you wrote there. Your penchant for linking without quoting is probably killing you.
 
FYI, I'm dividing my time between this conversation and tending to a script that's locking all ID questions on Movies & TV, so I much appreciate anything that removes further distractions
now...
 
6 mins ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
@Shog9 What about this answer? Isn't that an exact reflection of that?
The answer linked here, @AaronHall?
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I addressed this above:
8 mins ago, by Shog9
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog the fallacy there is assuming that something is well-researched and well-written and folks are downvoting it for reasons that are outside of the control of the author
 
8:52 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog yeah, you write a lot and I'm not sure what you want.
 
presenting an effective argument is more than just making sure an argument can be extracted from a wall of text by a sufficiently-patient reader
 
20 hours ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
@M.A.R. Obviously ridiculous ideas would likely show no research effort to understand the ideologies of the system, and thus eligible for regular downvotes under my proposed system.
 
@Shog9 you're allowed to write to the database?
 
@canon by virtue of established mod tool routes...
 
ah
 
8:53 PM
@Shog9 Exciting!
Nah... people can research stuff and draw the wrong conclusions and then come up with ridiculous ideas just fine.
 
Folks often suppose that voting on meta behaves differently from voting on all the other sites. That readers are evaluating posts which they find informative and moving, and then tossing aside this evaluation to vote on some other metric. I have not observed this to be the case.
 
on meta, I regularly vote based on RFHC
 
Folks vote for many reasons, but generally they do so consistently: a reader who seeks a solution to a problem will vote for a post that provides that solution and perhaps vote against a post that misleads them or otherwise wastes their time. This is true on meta as it is elsewhere.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Try 1) summing up (intro and conclusion). 2) using bullet points. 3) using terse, shorter sentences. 4) using one-sentence paragraphs. 5) using descriptive headings. 6) editing out redundancy.
 
@Shog9 Doesn't that only really apply to questions?
 
8:56 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog no
 
@AaronHall And bold text.
 
A reader who appreciates a given writing style will tend to reward that style and punish those that do not appeal to them.
 
@Catija only when absolutely necessary for emphasis.
 
@AaronHall But it's so much fun to use random **bold* markup!
 
A reader who likes an idea will reward a post that presents justification for that idea with which they can agree... And punish a post that presents an abhorrent or confusing justification.
 
8:57 PM
@Catija If everything is important then nothing is...
 
...I used to joke that a certain regular author on MSE was a great boon to the site as he would often propose previously-popular ideas but present them in a style that was engineered to be polarizing and belittling, with justifications that were unappealing to most users of the site.
He could thus turn a popular but flawed idea into an unpopular one simply by proposing it in his usual manner.
 
@Shog9 Me under my previous (2013) incarnartion?
 
@AaronHall Everything is important on SE.
 
This particular situation predates that by several years, though I'll allow it is hardly the domain of a single author
 
@Catija That's how I reason it... :D
 
9:00 PM
@AdamLear not sure why this needed migration? I assume there is just one Prettify build that you use across all sites that have Prettify enabled. Which make such requests on-topic for MSE, right?
 
@Shog9 On another note... like how I rescued Wes's answer? :)
 
@AaronHall yes. Good work!
 
is smugly self-satisfied
 
@Shog9 @AaronHall @Catija OK, I'll use the advice offered to make a post about AS inclusivity and the voting system after thinking about it some more.
 
To your other point above though, @SonictheAnonymousHedgehog: it is often the case that AS folks struggle to perceive or grant sufficient weight to social conventions. This can be a serious hurdle to social acceptance... But not necessarily an insurmountable one.
 
9:02 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I have gathered you want a second set of voting buttons for people to indicate agreement versus quality?
 
@AaronHall Yes
Anyway, I'm curious about something. Which Sonic character is @Shog9 most like (cc @Shadow @Zoe)
 
@rene Yes and no. If it requires a plugin, those are sometimes enabled per-site. But honestly I didn't think too hard about it, mostly just saw "Stack Overflow" and moved it over. It could go either way, as I think about it now, but meh.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I think it's not gonna happen. And our time is better spent on positive things we can make happen.
 
given his unusual morphology, my WAG is Dr. Robotnik
or rather, one of Robotnik's creations
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I'm not familiar enough with the series to answer that :D interesting question though :D
 
9:04 PM
It becomes all the more critical not to mislead them: it is critical to realize that voting and reputation exist as a sideshow, not as an end-goal. Persuasive writing is achievable for many classified as AS, though often with much more difficulty than would afflict others; it is important that they not be misled into thinking that when interacting with a group their hurdle lies elsewhere.
 
@JohnDvorak Metal Sonic?
 
The head part thereof
 
@AdamLear Hmm, okay. Didn't know about the per-site plugins. Thanks.
 
This is why I grit my teeth when I hear folks dismissing a post's issues as "voting is different on meta" - it deprives the author of a chance of success by blaming it on a faceless monster.
2
Of course, this is true to some extent for everyone, and thus all stand to benefit by removing misleading messaging from the system.
 
Moves the cheese, huh?
Changing a message is something we can definitely make happen.
 
9:06 PM
Considering he answered every single one of my meta questions, and is very helpful, he's just like Amy Rose. (Not that I have any interest.)
 
Part of the issue with "voting is different on meta" is that it's really not meant (from what I understand) to apply to all posts...
Support and bug issues and maybe even some discussions should be based on the question not agreement with what is asked.
 
@Catija and, that's how we wrote it up the last time we addressed this: meta.stackexchange.com/help/whats-meta
...but I suspect the nuance is lost
 
But it just doesn't work out that way. On meta IPS, people vote based on agreement regardless of the tags.
 
Yes - if folks think the post is presenting a referendum, they will vote accordingly regardless of tag.
 
9:08 PM
@Catija That's a per-site meta. Voting patterns are 50% less important there because there is no rep at stake.
 
Which is a good reason not to structure your post that way if that's not what you're looking for.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog You really can't just pull numbers like that out of nowhere.
I mean... you can... but it doesn't help the discussion at all.
 
If you want to gauge the community's opinions on a matter, ask for their opinions - don't present your own and ask for disagreement.
 
@Catija It's called a conjecture. But I wasn't planning to talk about that much in my post.
 
OTOH, if you're determined to jump on a soapbox... Accept that you may be shouted down.
 
9:09 PM
7 mins ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
@Shog9 @AaronHall @Catija OK, I'll use the advice offered to make a post about AS inclusivity and the voting system after thinking about it some more.
 
@Shog9 Yes. That's my preferred method of action on meta. Make a statement that's neutral.
 
My preferred method of action is... inaction.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I hope you're happy my friend...
 
I planned on doing exactly that. If anything, I'd propose the new voting system afterwards in a separate request.
 
@Catija I rather like the soapbox thing, but... I've also gotten shouted down a few times.
 
9:10 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog No. It's not conjecture at all. Several times it's been noted that the rep is irrelevant... I don't like being downvoted on child metas any more than on MSE, regardless of rep loss.
@Shog9 Well... I don't like being shouted at.
 
We AS people are very literal in our speech, generally.
 
I don't like working, but I do like getting paid. Some things in life have tradeoffs.
*everything
 
The difficulty is when no one else is asking the question so you have to
1. ask it neutrally and hope someone else will say what you want to say.
2. ask it neutrally and self answer.
3. soapbox.
 
@Shog9 Haha
Anyway, @Shog9 what Sonic character are you most like?
 
9:13 PM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog As someone who always takes things literally - you're not the only one. Some people just don't get humor/sarcasm/etc, regardless of diagnosed conditions.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog you tell me
 
7 mins ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
Considering he answered every single one of my meta questions, and is very helpful, he's just like Amy Rose. (Not that I have any interest.)
 
well, there it is then
 
@Shog9 overachiever.
 
Maybe we should all rename ourselves to Sonic characters. @Shadow did too, @Zoe plans to rename herself to "Rouge the Bat" provided the results of her poll don't drastically change...
@Shadow what do you think?
 
9:19 PM
You'll have to pry my username out of my cold dead hands?
 
Your username can be changed with a single word from any moderator
 
@JohnDvorak ... I am a moderator?
 
That only supports my claim :P
 
Apparently I'm really fond of ending statements with a question mark right now.
I can change my username more than anyone and I still refuse to do so... is what I'm saying.
 
rename: Catija -> CahTeeJah
 
9:23 PM
understood
 
@Catija Apparently you didn't catch the word "maybe".
 
@Shog9 ... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
 
CotYeah
 
@Shog9 I will pull up that artwork I made and posted in the TL featuring yourself.
... if I can find it.
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I'm curious... what's the interest in Sonic, anyway?
@Shog9 ... well... it's closer, anyway.
 
@Catija It started out from a simple message (when I was still called gparyani) where I kept calling Shadow Wizard "Shadow the Hedgehog". He then changed his username to "Shadow the Hedgehog Wizard". Later, he put up a poll asking for his future username.
In a bid to keep him named that, I changed my username to "Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog". Apparently my plan ended up working, and the top vote was to keep him named after Shadow the Hedgehog.
Given that, and given that the top result on @Zoe's poll is to rename her to another Sonic character, I just commented that maybe we should all change our names to Sonic characters
 
9:33 PM
Ah, I see.
 
10:19 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: How could SEARCHING for AUDIO CLIPS be improved? by noVaSon on sound.SE
 
10:53 PM
Happy hour in the tavern... the place to not be.
 
That's exactly why I'm here
.
 
Sometimes you wanna go where everybody... is just sort of aware of your existence.
5
 
?
 
@Shog9 that's what I have been saying the whole time!
I am so under appreciated
@Shog9 scream. Definitely scream
 
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