12:41 AM
So I burned through my 20 reviews already. Only 5/20 looked good enough to deserve a homepage spot. Am I being too harsh?

@Mysticial Probably not.

user273376
Christmas - bah humbug!

user259867
1:00 AM
@Mysticial Perfect balance. From now on, you are the person in charge of filtering all incoming SO questions.

@Raff Can't. I merely skipped all the ones in the tags that I know nothing about. I imagine if I actually had to go through the PHP ones, it'd probably be more like 1/20 or 0/20. :P

we accept camera calibration questions?

user259867
That's also perfect. You just need an increase from 20 to 8000 daily reviews.

1:23 AM
@Braiam That's quite a variety of opinions.

@AnnaLear is that queue supposed to take mods actions as bidding?

no idea
@Shog9? is the new triage queue supposed to treat mod actions are binding or not?

Am I totally misunderstanding the triage rev queue? stackoverflow.com/users/716216/0x7fffffff?tab=activity is saying looks ok!
I never think things look ok.

I'm not really sure that we even need this stat. Right now it seems like a number to say "Wow, you're helping a lot of people!" But really, it's only for that individual. Why should any random person from Google care how many people I've helped? Why should anyone? If I'm helping a lot of people, many people probably already know my username and don't need a number to tell them that. And we already have reputation to tell someone if they're generating useful content. — hichris123 1 min ago
Thoughts?

@hichris123 I agree

user259867
1:40 AM
@hichris123 I classify all proposed improvements to PH as "polishing a turd". Figuring out the best way to place a phony number on a vanity page.

@Raff eh. I do like some of the changes, as they make it look nicer. But I'm meh on it. I don't really care.

You voted to close as a duplicate and answered the question? That's a -1 from me. — Doorknob 冰 22 secs ago

user259867
@Doorknob冰 On Math.SE, the TFM is to answer, vote to close as off-topic, and then badger the OP to accept the answer.

Why are there vote buttons there, but not on the actual review?
And why don't these work?
Not even orange highlighted.

1:50 AM
Woah woah what's this Triage thingy now?

You just noticed?

@Doorknob冰 the new shinny cool review queue

It's kind of chaos over on Puzzling.SE; I barely have enough energy to talk in the Tavern in the first place

@bjb568 Fine but that's the least of our problems

1:56 AM
\o/
The more rep I get, the more nuking I can do!
Feels so good to downvote crap there.

So basically 90% of posts?

If you're only submitting suggested edits just so you can downvote posts.... you're doing Stack Exchange wrong.

@Doorknob冰 That's a pretty conservative estimate.
@AnnaLear I could downvote before that edit…

Just throwing that out there.

@AnnaLear Wait, is the advice for new users not "a good way to earn rep in order to upvote is to suggest helpful edits"?
(Not that I'm disagreeing, just that I've seen that mentioned on meta.)

2:02 AM
@Doorknob冰 No idea. I mean, it's kinda reasonable, but the core of my take on the whole thing is "if you intend to be a member of this community and participate beyond voting, suggested edits are a good way to get ahead faster". If all you're doing is grinding rep to be able to vote, it's weird. In that scenario, I view "I only do this so I can downvote" to be more toxic than "I only do this to upvote this good answer", for example.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is how @bjb568 is treating this.
Throwing random opinions into the chat stream here.
But, let's just say that there's a reason downvoting requires 125 rep vs 15 to upvote :)
The association bonus sure throws a wrench into things here.

Isn't the assoc bonus the reason it's 125 not 100?

I think the privilege levels predate the assoc bonus.

correct

Huh.

although of course 100 is just as arbitrary a number for an association bonus

2:08 AM
100 at least has some 2s.

Arbitrary numbers are fun!

125 is just 5s.
5s are awful.
It should be 100<sub>dozenal</sub>

@AnnaLear "Unsalvageable" actions are binding. Well, spam/offensive and close.
The rest aren't, currently. They might need to be, if we start turning this on for sites without reviewers. But... That doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now.

The primary focus here is enabling upvoting to float good content to the top, not to take up a mission to strike down what someone might think is wrong on a site they don't otherwise participate on.

@Shog9 For all users?

2:09 AM
@bjb568 what.

My comment here brings up something:
"Poorly researched" isn't a valid close reason anymore. But you definitely don't want them on the home page if they aren't useful to anyone. So by process of elimination, I'd say "needs improvement". Though I predict a high # of questions bouncing back and forth between triage/needs improvement <-> help-improvement queue/VLQ flag. — Mysticial 1 min ago

@Shog9 Ok, just for mods. Edit actions are binding for everyone, for eg.

What happens if a question ends up bouncing back and fourth?
Never good enough to land on the homepage. But not egregious enough to delete?

@bjb568 no edits in Triage

@Shog9 I meant in other queues.

2:10 AM
@Mysticial we sing a ribald pirate tune
2
@bjb568 right

@Shog9 no Bourne track? :(

@Shog9 lol

22 mins ago, by bjb568

@Shog9 There's a "close" option? :)

^^ Since you're (plural, ambiguous) here, what's with the dysfunctional vote buttons?

2:12 AM
@AnnaLear damn straight

@bjb568 should be fixed now
Where? I'm afraid to click buttons because I have a diamond everywhere. :P

@AnnaLear Unsalvageable->closed for another reason->pick yer poison

Ahh, gotcha.

@Shog9 wat
I can't test anything since I did my 20 (40) already. Ugh.

if you're talking about something else, you'll need to clarify

2:14 AM
The vote buttons do nothing.
And don't appear when you're reviewing, only when you already reviewed and go back.

why are the vote buttons shown if you can't (?) vote

@bjb568 Oh, yeah. Huh.

^^^ Also this happens about 0.01% of the time

@Braiam because we hate you and want you to be forever confused.
6
Or it's just a bug.

@AnnaLear *sadpanda*

2:16 AM
but yeah, report on meta please, if you haven't already.

@bjb568 ok, yeah - see my previous comment

I noticed. U iz bad at testz

I picked a bad day to give up moonshine

0

The vote buttons don't do anything in the triage review queue. They also only appear when you've already reviewed the item and gone back, which seems strange.

2:20 AM
@bjb568 way to rob me of a Taxonomist, man
@Mysticial seriously though, that's that ok - it's to be expected that some things will never be great but also not so bad that it's worth wasting folks' time deleting them. Think... A whole bunch of the stuff we used to close with Too Localized.

@Shog9 I get the feeling that a "sizable portion" of the stuff could end up that way. Stuff that I don't even want to look at, but I can't find a valid reason to nuke it from orbit. I guess if they get stuck in the queues too long, they'll get auto-deleted.

That's kinda the idea...

Is that the intended effect?

too many of our systems still tie up resources moderating sand instead of finding pearls. This puts an unbelievable amount of strain on even a site the size of Stack Overflow; on smaller sites like Super User, Math or Ask Ubuntu it can be positively crippling, siphoning away the time and energy of people who could be sharing their expertise with others.
I mean, I don't want to say that hand-feeding the Roomba has driven folks like @Raff completely mad.
But, that's probably only because they were borderline to begin with.

Why aren't questions considered meh before passing thru the system? I think questions should be in a "deleted" state at birth and only after going thru the review queue and getting "undeleted" (looks-good'd) is it published. It should be "hooray!" -> publish, "meh" -> zombie meh land where people who want to help go (to improve the question but not answer) "crap" -> just remove from queue, don't show to anybody.
I get more helpful VLQ flags then I upvote.

2:31 AM
~6 questions/minute is too much to process in a timely manner
so, we need to pre-filter

How about just for new users/users with a bad rep?

that misses a crapload of questions

Then quality algo.

although of course we do use that as an input to the prefilter
along with content analysis
and... other things
chicken entrails secret things
still, the pre-filter isn't 100% accurate
which is where triage comes into play

Yeah, it's great. Just assume a deleted state first.

2:33 AM
the idea being, stuff that the system thinks is suspect goes into shadow-land until triaged
IOW, won't show up on the homepage, eventually won't show up on filtered tag pages, etc.
you can search for it, or drink from the firehose if you wish
but we won't rub it in your face
until there's a decision

Shit is finally happening.

then comes improvement, and the feedback loop slash pirate dance

@Shog9 Whatever happened to the ML stuff that was supposed to tell if questions were crap, gold, or somewhere in between?

@hichris123 it's there
running
fuck you chat
5
right now

@Shog9 ... is it doing anything?
Or just testing still?

2:35 AM
so apparently chat rate limits don't apply to obscenities directed at chat
5
anyway...
@hichris123 it's feeding Triage

rofl

Oh nice.
@Shog9 Thought I had: is our Triage feedback feeding the ML algorithms too?

@hichris123 not... yet
that'll be sort of disconnected for a while
next step is to wire up the feedback loop: get edits to push questions to the front page, and VLQ to push questions into Triage

Until things stabilize/people understand what it is?

until we know if it works
I mean... This is kind of a gamble
Don't tell anyone, but we're kinda listening to Won't and Your Common Sense here.
That's madness!

2:40 AM
Next thing. CVs, DVs, DelVs, and ML and whatever non-living eval should all factor into a combined quality that would decide when things are closed/deleted.

@Shog9 That's kind of your job, am I right? Test random stuff, see what sticks & what doesn't.

pretty much

@hichris123 And to entertain some of us.

@Mysticial That too. :)

I mean, technically my job is to listen to you folks and then purge somehow. Like that guy from The Green Mile.
Coffee
Mmmm... coffee

2:41 AM
@Shog9 (and outa mod queue!)

but yeah, throwing noodles at a wall to see what sticks figures in somewhere

@Shog9 And unicorn yodeling?

damn unicorns

138
Coffee

Proposed Q&A site for people interested in all aspects of producing and consuming coffee.

Currently in commitment.

already committed
also, I signed on to support that proposal

2:44 AM
@Shog You migrated my question to get taxonomist?

Yes, I'm that petty

:)

user259867
SE isn't for helping people and if it is going to be, I'm leaving. Remove it. — bjb568 1 hour ago

user259867
and there was much rejoicing

Then he better leave now. Because SE kinda is about helping people...
2

2:52 AM
@bjb568 "SE isn't for helping people" Uhh... what???

That's a secondary goal.
Ugh, finding a good wording.
> With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed answers to every question about <site topic>.
Not halp you with ur porblems cuz you said plox.
I've always found data to be more important than the individual.

user259867
^ this. Without SEDE, SE would not be nearly as interesting to play.

@hichris123 my thoughts are this: I get happy whenever I see an upvote on an ancient answer I wrote that only applies to poor saps like me who got stuck supporting ancient in-house apps that no one bothered to document using APIs that Microsoft never bothered to document written by people who wish they could forget they ever wrote them. Because I've been here forever and know what that means. But... Not everyone does.
So we have things like the Unsung Hero badge, and... now this.

Aug 13 at 1:34, by bjb568
@JasonC People aren't important. Data is.
Ha

If you're answering questions in [C#] or [objective-c] or [java] or whatever, it won't make much difference.

3:00 AM
Not seeing much positive effects.

@Shog9 I get your point... but it just feels worthless to everyone but yourself (as in, me looking at my profile, you looking at yours, etc). It's a "feel good" number, not sure if anyone else would care about it.

@hichris123 Start being sure. That they won't.

@hichris123 doesn't matter to me. Like I said, I already know why I'm here.

@bjb568 ... there's always the one thing or person who doesn't fit the rule.

@hichris123 That's why "they" is ambiguous! Yay…

3:02 AM
I feel like kicking someone.
Who should I kick?

nooo

ok

@Shog9 ... well played.

user259867
@hichris123 Some might during mod elections. Look, this guy helped so many more people than the others! (Pointing at a user with 0 concern for quality of content other than own posts.)

rep trumps everything in elections

3:03 AM
@Shog9 But then who else cares that I've helped 20k people? I'm finding it hard to believe that it really matters since, well, who should care about how many people I've helped except for me (intrinsic motivation), you (Stack Exchange as a whole), and possibly an employer (they did something!).

@hichris123 mostly you

Shog kicked a kitten! Shog kicked a kitten!
:(
;(

He wouldn't dare kick a doorknob.

@Shog9 Which has led to some...unfortunate...results, but I digress.

... right? Right? I mean, it would stub his toe!
@TimStone cough SF cough

3:04 AM
@TimStone I know. I miss Evan too.

:o{

@hichris123 Does it matter who else cares?

@Shog9 Why this then, over a "You're awesome!" notification, or something similar? It's a number that may or may not be 95% incorrect.

in The Heap™ - Consultancy ©® on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 2 days ago, by Shog9
@swasheck gamification and caring are orthogonal at best: extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation. At worst, gamification actively reduces caring. You don't make someone care more about something by turning it into a game; they just start caring about the game instead.

(I'm stepping into the conversation fashionably late as usual)

3:05 AM
@TimStone You're presenting data to them for some reason.

On the off chance it gives someone warm fuzzies. Full stop.

. \o/

@TimStone Well, if no one else cares... why show it to anyone but me? I dunno, I'm going off somewhere on this tangent. Just let me think! :P

hichris123 argues for less transparency!

What if I said I actively don't want people to see how many people I've "helped"?

3:07 AM
@Shog9 He's just one of Jeff's lackeys! (we're still doing the thing where we miss Evan right?)

What if I said there's too much info on a user profile already?
(cuz i did just say it ^, ^^^)

@Shog9 I'm arguing for everything! And nothing at the same time!

@hichris123 Or something in between.

@hichris123 If they don't care then showing it to them won't hurt them!

(honestly, though, I'm bikeshedding. Aren't I?)

3:08 AM
@bjb568 People would probably shrug in your general direction.

@TimStone Depends on how you define hurt…

I mean, if anything, we should be complaining about the wall of dots. That's still there. C'mon guys.

@TimStone if I ever get elected as a mod, I'm posting everyone's Helpfulness Score on Wikilinks! Starting with bjb's!
4

@TimStone True, but not showing it to them won't hurt them either.

@TimStone Ah, well. At least I'm not too emotional about it.
@Shog9 :O

3:09 AM
@hichris123 Right, but since we've just determined there's no benefit in changing it stands to reason we should just stick with the status quo!
Your fault in all of this was not preempting their decision to put that number on the page by way of telepathy.
The Wheel of Blame says this is @Shog9's fault, which kind of brings things full-circle.

clearly
and I'd have gotten away with it too, if not for you meddling kids!

… not particularly useful dots

@bjb568 But... but... they're colorful!
And they're shapes!
And they're... uhhh, they're colorful!

@bjb568 Agreed, the wall of dots is an abomination.

3:12 AM

Damn things get stuck in your teeth. grumbles

Um wat? And NSFW lang, BTW.

user259867
Everybody's talking about dots. Other sites have different badge icons. Will aeismail have 345 teensy mortarboards? And just how ridiculous will it look?

3:19 AM
@bjb568 Really? No old-school WoW players here?
Sad.
MORE DOTS MORE DOTS

I'm young.

⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤‌​⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤⬤

@AnnaLear Do I look like @Jin?!

@TimStone Wait, turn a bit to your left? Hmm... there's a bit of similarity there.

3:20 AM

@AnnaLear I have been told I'm Asian on the inside.
@hichris123 The number is supposed to give you the same fuzzies as that ad

@TimStone But the ad says something. It may not be understandable, but anyone could say it's deep. The number, well... numbers are hard to interpret.
I'm just giving up on this. It's a number. Maybe I should have put it in perspective before complaining...
but then again, the staff did want the community's input. sooo....

The problem is you're being too analytical. Like that person who wanted all sorts of stats about Winterbash (that better not have been you too, so help me! I kid, I kid ;P)

user259867
Shakira has helped more than 100,000,000 people!

I mostly just like causing trouble, sorry. I have no real stake in interjecting.

3:24 AM
@TimStone Says the SQL guy. xD
btw @TimStone did you see about the new reCAPTCHA? That would be cool to use for SEDE.

I did
If I can survive the rest of the week I'll take a look at that since I really need to get my ass in gear on fixing the authentication.
Someone will need to collectively shake a fist with me to get the changes deployed though.

... or shake a fist at Nick.

But I like Nick! I'd rather bribe him instead.
Someone make some cookies or something.

Skype is dead.
(that was pseudorandom)
(or something)

@bjb568 Is that Google Hangouts or something?

3:29 AM
@Doorknob冰 Wut? It's iMessage.
/ Messages

@bjb568 Oh. Eww, iOS stuff.

OSX
It's integrated!

Oh. Still, ewww. :P

likes integrals

@bjb568 I use it all the time. Not my choice, but I do :P

user259867
3:34 AM
37

Compute the following integral $$\int_0^{\Large\frac{\pi}{4}}\left[\frac{(1-x^2)\ln(1+x^2)+(1+x^2)-(1-x^2)\ln(1-x^2)}{(1-x^4)(1+x^2)}\right] x\, \exp\left[\frac{x^2-1}{x^2+1}\right]\, dx$$ I was given two integral questions by my teacher. I can answer this one a...

user259867
Said a mod on two puzzling sites. Math has puzzles too, you know.

@Doorknob冰 Compressor? Hopefully? … Right?
And why are you so cold?
(referring to 冰)

directs @bjb568 to my profile "about me"
Oh, and @hichris, don't you dare. :P

@Doorknob冰 Oh

3:43 AM
@Doorknob Link-onl...

slaps @hichris123 mid-sentence

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: エプソンLPCA3K9感光体ユニット2 by bagprada on drupal.stackexchange.com

(from Japanese) The quality assurance (replacement return, refund, repair, etc.) to. （ for warranty information about reference ） toner cartridge store
definitely spam --^

user259867
All Japanese cartridge spam comes from username bagprada. Different users (naturally), same name every time.

Oh, interesting.

user259867
3:49 AM
Spam gone, btw

Uhh... I don't know how to do this. Can the username be blacklisted with some fancy SD command?

no but we can edit the SD source and blacklist the user. Unless @ProgramFOX removed that feature.. I can't remember if that was just temporary or not.

@SmokeDetector tpu

@hichris123 Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad' and blacklisted user.

There.

3:56 AM
Does the user blacklist apply to username or id?

Uh, not sure.

user259867
@hichris123 But this is just one instance, soon to be destroyed. SD blacklists user profiles, not names.

Grr.

user259867
It records user profile URL, to be precise.

The user was already destroyed long ago anyway

user259867
3:57 AM
Yes, in all tpu the letter u is entirely useless.

Someone go fork and do a PR. I'll merge + pull.

what are we fixing?

Oh wait, think I got it.
!!/pull
!!/rev

user273376
yo

4:03 AM
Hi!

user273376
silly question, but what time would it be in the CM-heartland?

user259867
CMs never sleep. But seriously: US-based are in Eastern and Mountain timezones, and maybe others. Then there are some in Japan and Philippines, so...

user273376
lol

user273376
I'll just wait a little longer

user273376
sent an email regarding deletion of my A51 account and GL.SE

user259867
4:08 AM
Was there any response?

user273376
not yet on the A51 request and the automated one on the GL.SE saying the deletion request has been received

user273376
no hurry though

user273376
the HSM deletion countdown only has a few hours to go... so am almost sorted with my sites

Last I heard the email backlog was several hundred emails so..

user273376
ye gods!

user273376
4:15 AM
that's a lot to churn through

indeed

user273376
I'll wait, am in no hurry

user273376
I'll bide my time stirring the disembodied glasses of doom

user259867
Or you could answer some questions on Earth Science...

user273376
just did

user259867
4:19 AM
Nice! Too bad Markdown does not have anything like a reference list, just ordinary numbered lists.

user273376
indeed, would be nice

user273376
lol, I am close to a "Enlightened" and a couple of "Necomancers" there... I have 16 Revival badges

user273376
so @Raff do you have an interest in Earth Sciences?

@SabreTooth earth is so bleh

user273376
lol

user273376
4:25 AM
@cVplZ which planet do you prefer?

user259867
@SabreTooth I don't know anything about it, or about real world in general. I study things that exist only in my imagination.

user259867
Some people call it being a mathematician.

@SabreTooth I don't like to commit to just one planet. Earth is alright for some things, but if I want to party I go to Jupiter.
Jupiter has all the flashy natural disco rings that fit my style

user273376
@cVplZ what about Saturn?

user273376
@Raff gasp! maths rocks!

4:28 AM
@SabreTooth that's where my Grandma goes to have fun

user273376
@cVplZ dare I ask about the next planet in line?

@SabreTooth I'm afraid I said too much already

user273376
@cVplZ lol

user273376
well, I am from plain ol' Mercury myself

43912 is the port number for minecraft servers.
I think.

user273376
4:34 AM
minecraft...hisssssss.....

I hate it too.
Oh, wait I was looking for 49473. nvm

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: natural skin care alredy by linoriq on askubuntu.com

[ SmokeDetector ] Score of 89.4791: natural skin care alredy on askubuntu.com

user273376
my students always try to play it in class... I am thinking, that's it "Building a Faraday cage"

user259867
This could be a question for Academia: how to stop students from playing Minecraft in class?

user273376
4:39 AM
Academia...hisssssssssssss

user259867
Personally, I don't mind. As long as they keep the noise down and don't distract others too much.

user259867
What? I'm not on Academia myself, but it seems reasonable.

user273376
used to be a member there...long story

user273376
but summarised as 'hissssss'

user259867
Self-deletionists of SE, unite and take over.

user273376
4:42 AM
or rather unite and walk away

user273376
anyways better go, got to go to an excessively boring meeting

5:01 AM
> Today, let's talk about how our students are self-deleting their minecrafts.
runs
Night!

user259867

user259867
30 minutes old, score -3...

Morning!

5:17 AM
Morning! Check out the new triage review queue it's cool!
2

COOL! :D

user259867
\o/ all spam gone

user259867
5:51 AM