Tavern on the Meta

00:21

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack Thanks. Mousetail has been on vacation the past... recently. (Week, maybe? I dunno.) Art of Code was handling things in his absence, but he has less time to devote. The request to en-lozenge Nicolas is already in the queue, so to speak. I'll try to follow up. Yeah, Jeremy knows about the option and hasn't requested. I haven't discussed his motivations with him.

Blue

00:33

Has there been any movement on the strike?

starball

01:09

It's deeply disappointing to see early and vocal supporters of the strike so eager to jump on the bandwagon. Ideally Spencer's question would've gone unanswered until the end of the strike. It feels like when the CEO said the company's genAI efforts have community support he was right after all. It makes me wonder who I am striking for. — blackgreen on strike 1 min ago

cocomac

Yes, I'll respond to that in a moment

starball

@blackgreen I'm not asking to join the group to hop on a bandwagon

I'm asking to join so I can be a part of the conversation

Ex. I can call things out from the outside, but I assume I'll be listened to more seriously if I'm in this group.

I'm not going to put this reply in the comments on my post because I'm afraid saying this (or anything of the nature of "I want to join so I can call it out if I see something I think isn't good") there might hurt my chances of getting in.

they're going to do what they're going to do. Nothing I can say on meta will stop them from doing what they said they're going to do.

cocomac

Also... IMO, valuing good information about prompting LLMs (or gen AI overall) can co-exist with disagreeing with some AI decisions/policies enforced/created/made by SE

starball

If I want to be listened to, I'll have to try my hand at getting into the stakeholder group- or at least- that's what I think from my limited viewpoint.

@cocomac I agree

also, (and this is not to say I have a great understanding of the Stack Exchange way of things), but if nobody with at least some competent understanding of that way of things signs up for this stakeholder group, I think there's a risk of onboarding a lot of new users and building a bad foundation of a new site.

cocomac

(Earlier comment by SE staff)

@HolyBlackCat The Prompt Design site has had no impact on the GenAI policy. They have been quite separate from the start. — SpencerG ♦ yesterday

starball

01:23

also @blackgreen, there are a couple things I referred to subtly (on purpose) in my application post: meta.stackexchange.com/a/390246/997587 and meta.stackexchange.com/a/390545/997587- posts of mine which perhaps you haven't seen yet

cocomac

We can't superping so blackgreen likely won't see this

starball

@cocomac yeah I know. I'm just trying to make clear who my message is addressed to. I invited them to this room, so they probably will see this later.

cocomac

@blackgreenonstrike I'm still participating in the strike (aside from a few extremely limited exceptions). I've also publicly disagreed with a number of AI-related choices SE has made. I'd still like to be able to help shape the new site, and as the new site doesn't impact AI policy, I don't see a reason why helping with the new site and striking are exclusive. While I certainly support the strike, I'm also interested in gen AI, outside of SE-associated issues. — cocomac 22 secs ago

Journeyman Geek On Strike

02:00

@cocomac I am skeptical and feel this has a certain degree of economy with the truth

Feeds

04:43

stackoverflow.blog/2023/06/23/…

Meta Andrew T.

05:11

@Feeds Throwing away the visibility on onebox

SPArcheon

07:14

@wizzwizz4 at least it should be enough to realize that it is NOT trying to output a correct answer to a question, for example...

and therefore if someone really want to use "AI" to generate answers on the network there are many tools that would be a better choice than the new Eliza....

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon they don't care about correctness tho

SPArcheon

@cocomac @starball I admire your courage.

There could be some intriguing discussion to be got by joining that group, but I can't really get me to join when there are precedent of helpers used as flesh-shields.

starball

@SPArcheon perhaps more like naivite? (at least for me). I only started being active here about a year ago, so I haven't felt the pain or witnessed the insult of past events.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon its meat shields

starball

@SPArcheon what do you mean by "flesh shields"?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

07:23

@starball Meat shields.

starball

how would the stakeholder group members be meat shields? (is what I meant by the question)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Basically you're minding your own business then someone grabs you and puts you in harm's way

starball

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike what harm?

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike nonono, I meant FLESH shield specifically to evoke the image of the D&D Wall of Flesh.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@starball Well, you get blamed for stuff I guess

SPArcheon

07:25

that is usually a messed up agglomeration of screaming faces and body parts. Think the usual Necronomicon cover

also, the Terraria Shield of Flesh

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike meaning is basically the same, but I said flesh because I wanted to evoke a cursed enslaved souls vibe.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

On the other hand - I think if someone is interested enough and is aware of the whole situation, its their choice

starball

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike well, if I get blamed for anything that isn't my fault, I'll be cross.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Imagine how we feel :D

starball

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike 🙃

Journeyman Geek On Strike

So do what you feel is right, in the way you feel is right

starball

07:30

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I will!

Journeyman Geek On Strike

(I also don't feel pressuring people into doing/not doing stuff's fair either.)

SPArcheon

@starball "Oh, no, this dastardly mod doesn't want to follow our pronoun policy because she takes pleasure in misrepresenting the gender identity of our users! Newspaper, please, look at us as we punish her. We art the holy defend'rs of lighteth and we cant' alloweth f'r this on our site! singeth our praise so yond we behold liketh we careth f'r div'rsity and inclusion!"

I wouldn't want to discover that there was an already planned Opera act to toss someone under a truck in the name of "responsible AI generation usage" for example.

M.A.R.

@SPArcheon I feel like you're letting this whole thing bother you too much

SPArcheon

@M.A.R. Probably, but I am at a point where I am no longer able to put my trust on the network to not hurt anyone

M.A.R.

@SPArcheon sure. Most of us are.

Fool me 28 times

Journeyman Geek On Strike

07:40

@SPArcheon Well technically

they threw everyone under a bus

M.A.R.

Someone should keep a count.

wizzwizz4

@M.A.R. It would be difficult to define how to count it.

M.A.R.

@wizzwizz4 nah. -100> score should suffice.

wizzwizz4

So we're just counting public statements on meta, and not blog posts or news statements or private guidance? When they copy-and-paste something, does that count twice? What about actions with the inevitable consequence of bus under-throwing, but are not direct corporeal vehicular obstruction?

@M.A.R. Sounds like a gold standard metric.

M.A.R.

@wizzwizz4 yes, because there's at least one meta post for each (I think?) Copy-pasting happened once or twice, I think and can be accounted for.

wizzwizz4

07:51

No negative-score meta post (that I can find) for this one.

M.A.R.

@wizzwizz4 yeah but there's like three posts for the whole thing so it should cover it.

SPArcheon

asked the dangerous question....

(continue) Would the Stakeholder be required to sign some agreement like mods do? — SPArcheon 2 mins ago

M.A.R.

08:08

45

Q: What is "Ask Patents" and why is it secret?

Looks like our SE overlords are about to launch a new Stack Exchange site - Ask Patents. I've been hinted at its existence by a user who committed to the (now closed) Software Law proposal on Area 51. Did I miss the memo or something? There's no site entry in Area51, and doubly suspicious ...

Pet Linux

@M.A.R. you looked on what site I registered just now?

M.A.R.

Hey maybe the new site is . . . Ahh no nevermind

It's crazy, the calm in that post. Truly from another era.

@PetLinux I'm definitely not looking over your shoulder no your other shoulder

Pet Linux

lol

Meta Andrew T.

@M.A.R. yeah, and the achievement from the same community...

M.A.R.

08:28

@MetaAndrewT. I once ate three whole ice creams in two minutes and half

SPArcheon

We should just sell questions NFT.

Meta Andrew T.

@M.A.R. :O

@SPArcheon like, Unicoin?

SPArcheon

@MetaAndrewT. like, you own the question but everyone can copy the content because the license allows it. And you only own the question as an entity on the network, you don't own the actual textual content.

all you get is a shiny "this question is owned by [your name]" under the post.

M.A.R.

08:43

@SPArcheon now I want a meta rant titled "SO modarator funged my SO forum. I demand monetary compensation"

Come to think of it, why don't we just call it "funging" instead of "deleting" from now on

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@M.A.R. You have the power to make it so :D

SPArcheon

@M.A.R. Irminsuled. If you know, you know. If you don't, look at my profile...

And how carefully I described what is actual Genshin Impact lore.

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike apologize for my English. It not so good. Is not point of Smackoverflow helping ppl. Why mean.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

M.A.R.

@SPArcheon oh, I know! I know! It's the guy that didn't destroy the One ring. No wait, it's the prophet who was so nice he didn't complain when his father was about to cut his throat. Whoa that escalated quickly

Journeyman Geek On Strike

08:54

IT IS THE ONE WHO KNOCKS

M.A.R.

Look I can barely keep my drug names straight. I can't be expected to know what Irmuska means

Pet Linux

@Jour A dog! Time to bark!

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@PetLinux She seems depressed, poor dear.

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike phew, you're not in danger of that any time soon

SPArcheon

@M.A.R. this and this

M.A.R.

09:03

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike reminds me of those sensational pictures news articles put on top with headlines like "Mary is a victim of the company dumping chemicals in the river"

@SPArcheon you lose me at "Sumeru". That was a while ago, my memory is all fuzzy

So Irinotecan is like, a repository of knowledge. Oh I get it. It's arXiv

SPArcheon

09:50

@M.A.R. Ignoring the joke on the name (btw, it is not like Genshin made up the name Irminsul - that is just one of the names used for the "world tree" concept that is present in many cultures), the Genshin version is not a repository.

what is written there is what people remember despite what actually happened.

It is more similar to a fake news site. So... Facebook maybe.

Tinkeringbell

10:12

@M.A.R. That'd be boring. Also, as a mod, not really an option ;) Need to keep an eye on everyone, including the ones you'd rather not see :)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

10:27

Especially those ;)

Tinkeringbell

11:03

Eh, we're supposed to be fair and offer the same level of scrutiny to every user :)

Feeds

12:43

stackoverflow.blog/2023/06/23/…

Tinkeringbell

"dev survey on ai hype or not"... I'd say do not :P

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Oh they'll say its hype, cause it is an ad for SO labs

Also, how pedantic should I be?

stackoverflow.co/labs/question-formatting-assistant wrong logo, and Meta is not written META

wizzwizz4

13:02

> Is AI making a real impact in the way developers work or is it all hype?

I don't understand why they're treating these as mutually-exclusive.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@Tinkeringbell clearly I need an AI that checks my spelling :D

Tinkeringbell

Nah. You've got me ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Actually not sure if its ours or MSOs but I wanted to take the opportunity to point out the absolute mess that SOfT support is too

Journeyman Geek On Strike

13:16

and I added a tag/tag wiki cause unfilled tag wikis annoy me

Tinkeringbell

Well I just cleaned up some comment about you being bad at striking (technically it called whatever you're doing not a strike because you don't get paid) but you really are :P

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Yeah I saw :D

I thought it was amusing actually

Tinkeringbell

First time maybe. Second time, not :)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

I'd honestly rather have him spend his energy editing the question rather than getting snippy at me for trying to help ._.

Tinkeringbell

Yep.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

13:30

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike too long

Also, not what I meant, full form would be Community Manager and Community Managers. ;)

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell but but but... AI is so useful...

Tinkeringbell

Oh, it can be :)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@CodyGray-onstrike thanks!

SPArcheon

Tinkeringbell

I'm not going to deny that a fully functional AI could be useful :)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

13:32

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack See! Lack of ambiguity! Cause UAS!

@Tinkeringbell its all fun and games, then skynet.

Tinkeringbell

@SPArcheon I am going to deny that that is useful though.

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell I knew that :P

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Well, that's what we got prompt engineering for in a few days.. 'no skynet' :P

SPArcheon

Just wanted to see your reaction.

Tinkeringbell

Well there it is then.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

13:34

@Tinkeringbell the list of homicidal AIs is very long

Tinkeringbell

Oh?

Real life ones or fictional?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Well, I don't want to know about the real ones

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell does the Boeing 737 MAX count?

wizzwizz4

@SPArcheon A more ethical version exists.

SPArcheon

@wizzwizz4 Ethical? Go ask Memor-x on Anime how ethical are the various "booru" site in the first place.

you think they have the permission from every artist to upload their art there?

wizzwizz4

13:41

Considering this was fed into the AI system, it's strictly more ethical.

But yeah, something like deviantart(?) would probably be better. (I don't know where the kids are putting their fan-art these days.)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

.....

@wizzwizz4 thanks now i feel old

I had a deviant art account like..

SPArcheon

While I agree on the copyright issue on diffusion, this specific case is a catch 22 situation.
If the content on the booru site was free to distribute in the first place, then you have a situation similar to LLM trained on SO data dump.
If the content was "stolen" on the booru site... then it was a mess from the start.

wizzwizz4

Nah, it's different: booru sites normally provide attribution, whereas "genAI" systems never do.

SPArcheon

@wizzwizz4 I fear that on that front the only "attribution" you can give is "booru site dump [year]"

wizzwizz4

Okay, yeah, a quick sample (clicking the "random" button a few times) shows that the attribution situation is quite bad. I was lucky with the first 5 I tried.

Point is, it's sometimes got attribution; and it's possible to reverse image search. genAI has neither of these qualities.

SPArcheon

13:48

@wizzwizz4 alas, I would avoid the booru sites for the same reason I avoid the TESNexus site for games mod. Malwertising mess. U-matrix is your best friend there.

wizzwizz4

German law describes three subcategories of authorial moral rights: right of publication, recognition of authorship, and (preventing) distortion of work.

SPArcheon

@wizzwizz4 yep, and it is a mess because no one can agree on what the AI is doing.

Personally, I haven't come a concrete position yet.

On a way I can clearly see the issue in training the model on content you weren't granted permission to.

but after that things get very fuzzy.

wizzwizz4

If you're an AI company, it's learning "just like humans". If you're an artist, it's evil plagiarising scum. For everyone else, it's computer techy magic.

SPArcheon

@wizzwizz4 counterquestion: have you ever been at an anime convention?

You will constantly find artist selling keychains, posters, shirts, gadgets that they draw.

But often those are pictures of copyrighted characters.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

If you're an AI company, its an easy way to make a buck

SPArcheon

13:56

But that alone is not the point.

wizzwizz4

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Only in investor reports! The public face says it's the way of the future.

SPArcheon

sometime these artist draw pictures of actual characters in their own style

sometime they "copy" the official style.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

But they also do the work :D

Imagine if an artist was sitting there tracing

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike but then you would have to rethink the issue.

wizzwizz4

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike But that's also work.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

13:59

repose the issue?

@wizzwizz4 different levels of practice and talent involved :D

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike sorry had another word in mind

wizzwizz4

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Yeah, I don't think it's about work. I think it's about creativity: copyright is (purportedly) all about fostering creativity under a system where only financial incentives exist.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@wizzwizz4 Its also about protecting the artist's rights...

wizzwizz4

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike ~~Only in order to foster creativity.~~ <-- wrong

Journeyman Geek On Strike

though its very much more about protecting Mickey's Copyrights :D

wizzwizz4

14:01

But assume it's only in order to foster creativity, because that makes my argument better.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@wizzwizz4 but consider a cover song

vs autotune

or in this case, an original work vs a work that's inspired or using someone elses charecter but your own artistic talent vs well, something that's not much talent

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike what does autotune have to do with this???

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike then again you are arguing that the actual issue is that the machine trivializes the process of copying someone else style.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon I'm saying they're not the same level of creative, artistic and wassname merit

wizzwizz4

I don't think merit should come into it.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Right number of fingers aside though

if a AI could do 'art' as well as a human, would you pay a human to do art?

Tinkeringbell

14:11

Probably entirely depends on who ends up being the cheapest... the greedy corporation with the AI or the human ;)

SPArcheon

@Tinkeringbell also if you were paying someone in the first place

Tinkeringbell

Can I be snobbish and just say it'll always be the human? :P

(I have actually been looking at some art lately, my apartment is a bit bare without it... )

SPArcheon

oh, I just meant that a big slice of the casual diffusion userbase probably never planned to pay an artist in the first place.

they just made some "art" because it was free on some site.

wizzwizz4

Nobody paying for soulless corporate art wants to pay for it. And yet, producing such things has provided food and board for many an artist.

SPArcheon

@wizzwizz4 I think I may have explained what I meant very poorly then.

Mitch

14:17

@wizzwizz4 uh, actually... So the textbook, Russell and Norvig, 'AI: A Modern Approach', which is what every intro AI class in the US uses, has an introductory chapter that lays out a framework for understand AI applications and calls them -all- 'agents'. In their taxonomy, I think what is being talked about in the chat reference is a particular kind of agent, an 'autonomous learning agent'.

eg a thermostat is autonomous and adaptive, but not learning, an ML classifier of pictures into cats and dogs is not autonomous but learning.

wizzwizz4

But they don't have agency!!!1

Mitch

I'm no 'expert' but i have taught a class using that textbook.

wizzwizz4

@Mitch This is why people need to stop letting me invent my own jargon.

Thanks. I'll try to keep that in mind.

Mitch

@wizzwizz4 I'm just telling you how the textbook defines these things in a framework. Technical definitions often don't follow the informal accepted notions of the words they use. I agree, when I think of 'agency' it doesn't match those two examples. But that's how the book would classify them.

(also most people wouldn't classify a thermostats as AI either... it's a very pedantic use of the terminology)

SPArcheon

The stable diffusion right now is a low hanging fruit. Low enough that you want to make something since it is free but not interesting enough that you would pay and search for it. And that mirrors to paying for actual hand made.
It is like watching a movie on a public TV channel. Did that "steal" a sale to Netflix? If I didn't care much in the first place had said channel never aired it I wouldn't have gone out of my way to buy it from netflix instead.

wizzwizz4

14:20

@Mitch I think every terminology in every field is bad in some way or other. But the benefits of using the same terminology as everyone else outweigh the downsides.

(Usually. Sometimes the terminology is really bad, like "monad" or "whitelist".)

SPArcheon

@wizzwizz4 Monado is a perfectly fine name for a sword

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon If I was never going to get $streaming_service and I pirate a show, are they losing a sale?

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike lovely how you think that stealing something and getting something for free and enjoying it but not so much that you would pay for it is the same thing?

Because if you read the preceding messages the point was not about the fact that Diffusion is plagiarism or not. It was about the idea that the total of diffusion made art is equal to "stolen" work from artist

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Yup

So its the same :D

SPArcheon

.... ok, seems I will have to go out of my way with legalese level grammar.

Give me a sec, English is not my mother language... I guess I could use mine and leave you the pleasure to translate....

Pet Linux

14:31

my English also is not my mother language

wizzwizz4

@SPArcheon It's not equal to "stolen" work from artists. The process of human curation can make it slightly more (or, I suppose, less – but that would be an artistic statement in and of itself) than the model (which is an unoriginal derivative of its training data).

Journeyman Geek On Strike

It isn't mine either :D

Pet Linux

Well dog's language is not English it's a right thing. :D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux Father's language then?

wizzwizz4

Bunny (dog)

Bunny (born c. August 2019) is a sheepadoodle who displays behaviors that may be human-animal communication. Bunny has reportedly learned 92 words. Bunny uses a set of soundboard buttons, made by FluentPet, to "talk".Bunny first rose to prominence when she went viral on video-sharing platform TikTok. Bunny has 8 million followers on TikTok as of September 2022. Bunny is currently the subject of scientific study by researchers at the University of California, San Diego. She is part of the TheyCanTalk study, and is monitored by cameras placed in the living room of her owner Alexis Devine. =...

Journeyman Geek On Strike

14:33

lol

the late Mr Ash understood english and tamil

Pet Linux

@wizzwizz4 it's a robot.

SPArcheon

> Thinking that if you make 100 pictures with stable diffusion you have just "stolen" 100 potential commissions to artist for making those pictures seems in a way pretentious. I would argue that out of those 100 picture at least 75 would never have become actual paid for commissions in the first place since those 75 user never would have considered a paid service.
Therefore the number of paid commission that artist lost if fairly smaller than the number of generated images.

Mitch

@wizzwizz4 monad is just weird

Journeyman Geek On Strike

we mostly spoke to him in tamil because he would occationally refuse to do as he was told, and it was embarassing :D

wizzwizz4

@PetLinux Bunny isn't a robot?

Journeyman Geek On Strike

14:34

@SPArcheon Without SD though...

SD's still producing a substiute good

Pet Linux

@wizzwizz4 maybe but it isn't a natural dog!!

wizzwizz4

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I think this is a separate point to copyright.

Wolf

The wolf (Canis lupus; PL: wolves), also known as the gray wolf or grey wolf, is a large canine native to Eurasia and North America. More than thirty subspecies of Canis lupus have been recognized, including the dog and dingo, though gray wolves, as popularly understood, only comprise naturally-occurring wild subspecies. The wolf is the largest extant member of the family Canidae, and is further distinguished from other Canis species by its less pointed ears and muzzle, as well as a shorter torso and a longer tail. The wolf is nonetheless related closely enough to smaller Canis species, such as...

Pet Linux

@wizzwizz4 for what?

wizzwizz4

@PetLinux I don't think I understand what you're trying to say.

The process of domestication involved selection for the ability to process and understand human speech.

Pet Linux

ooh another AI

Journeyman Geek On Strike

14:37

@PetLinux Most dogs have had some degree of selective breeding

So there's probably very few dogs that are 'natural'

Pet Linux

words waterfall

Journeyman Geek On Strike

Maybe en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea_singing_dog

SPArcheon

that's kinda the point. Diffusion has a ton of different related issues. How it should be considered regarding to copyright is one aspect.
Replacement of someone else work is another (but if you want to discuss that don't pretend that the AI is doing anything so different from your average Ikea replacing traditional woodworkers )
And I am kinda surprised that with all the talk about "Nooo!!! ChatGPT won't generate correct answers it makes up things" no one mentioned another serious issue.

wizzwizz4

@PetLinux Oneboxes aren't an AI thing. Anyone can make them, with a message consisting only of a supported link.

Pet Linux

YOU BLEWED UP MY BRAIN

wizzwizz4

14:41

@SPArcheon Which one? I can think of about five.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

also oneboxen are often broken, to the point we make fun of it :D

wizzwizz4

22 secs ago, by Pet Linux

YOU BLEWED UP MY BRAIN

If you edit your message, this'll still show the original text.

Kevin B

🚽

Pet Linux

@wizzwizz4 what's the purpose of your message?

wizzwizz4

@PetLinux A demo. I can get rid of it if you like.

(Or, I could have, a few seconds ago.)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

14:46

4 mins ago, by wizzwizz4

22 secs ago, by Pet Linux

YOU BLEWED UP MY BRAIN

:D

wizzwizz4

7 secs ago, by wizzwizz4

You can even do it to the same message.

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike 𝔅𝔄𝔇! 𝔑𝔬 𝔪𝔲𝔩𝔱𝔦 𝔩𝔢𝔳𝔢𝔩 𝔮𝔲𝔬𝔱𝔢𝔰!

Mithical

*sigh*

Journeyman Geek On Strike

lol

SPArcheon

Pet Linux

14:53

1 min ago, by Pet Linux

27 secs ago, by Journeyman Geek On Strike

4 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek On Strike

4 mins ago, by wizzwizz4

22 secs ago, by Pet Linux

YOU BLEWED UP MY BRAIN

enough

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ElementsinSpace lol. Multilevel quote oneboxen.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Actually kind of awesome.

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike I doubt you would get the joke if I replied with "multi-track drifting!"....

wizzwizz4

Reminder: the Sandbox exists for you to play with chat features in.

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@SPArcheon Initial D reference?

awww

@wizzwizz4 fine

Kevin B

15:02

isn't this kinda like a sandbox anyway

Journeyman Geek On Strike

→ 8 messages moved to Trashcan

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@wizzwizz4 you started! :P

Journeyman Geek On Strike

I cleaned it up enough that it makes sense, and its not gratuitous

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@KevinB MSE itself is a sandbox for SE to play in too. ;)

wizzwizz4

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack It doesn't matter who started it. All that matters is who ends it.

(Advice may not be accurate.)

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

15:05

@wizzwizz4 that's not how it works with children. ;)

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike Nope but close enough.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

Changing room name to Kindergarten on the Meta

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack clearly you did not end it well enough

wizzwizz4

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack It is if they're fighting for long enough they forget who started it.

SPArcheon

Densha de D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

15:06

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike wife doing it in her way, which is make the kids say sorry to each other. :D

SPArcheon

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack says the owner of Shadow's Den...

wizzwizz4

@SPArcheon The correct solution to the trolley problem.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@wizzwizz4 true!

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack its somewhat less messy than handing them sabers and telling them to duel to the death

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@SPArcheon :D

wizzwizz4

15:07

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike In the long term, though, that would be more efficient.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike or just send each to his/her room and have the rooms turn to dust.... :D

Journeyman Geek On Strike

how much sweeping up is needed

SPArcheon

@wizzwizz4 I still hope some fool will try that for a World Record attempt someday....

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@JourneymanGeekOnStrike infinite amount, room can't get back to what it was before. ;)

Journeyman Geek On Strike

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack WE HAF VAYS MR SHADOW. WE HAF VAYS

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

15:22

Haf Haf!

That's how the room looks like while they're in there, angry:

:D

SPArcheon

鉄道模型　【電車でＤ】複線ドリフト！？

►

LEGO Multi-Track Drifting montage - Deja Vu

►

The Unhandled Exception

It's been forever and a day since I was in here... does the wheel of blame still exist or is that a memory from a bygone era?

Kevin B

probably

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@TheUnhandledException wheel moved to TL only, and we have Smokey blame command, but he's on a strike.

The code for original WoB still exists somewhere, but it's fixed with ancient names that most aren't around anymore. :(

The Unhandled Exception

Thanks @ShadowWizard! Was looking for the visual effect of it because we're recreating it in a slackbot

but I think I described it adequately enough to my team

there's a very limited mount we can do in that medium anyway

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

15:34

@TheUnhandledException not just visual, it also make sound.

The Unhandled Exception

oh right I totally forgot about that!

it's been literal years since I've been in here

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

I was never here when it worked, sadly. All I know is second or third handed. :(

Mithical

jsfiddle.net/Ldvwp8uv/12

The Unhandled Exception

also, hi @TimStone 😈 😂

@Mithical perfect, thank you!!!!

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@TheUnhandledException almost 10 years!!!

Aug 31, 2013 12:32 PM is when you posted the last message before going away. ;)

Anyway of the old gang, @balpha is here too. :D

The Unhandled Exception

15:39

Ha! Oh man, the feels. This group used to keep me company and be my ad-hoc teammates when I was a lone wolf developer :D these days I manage a team of over 5 engineers and haven't had time for MSE chat. but I do have fond memories of this place from way back

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@TheUnhandledException never too late, and we have fine people here now as well. :D

Create new memories! ;)

The Unhandled Exception

:D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@The so what made you come back? The strike and hype around it?

The Unhandled Exception

Today, specifically so I could find an image/video of how the wheel of blame used to work so I could show someone who's building that into a slackbot. And to troll Tim which is always fun :p

and @Mithical delivered perfectly on my first request! 💯

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

15:59

@TheUnhandledException haha! Sadly Tim isn't very responsive lately, but who knows maybe he'll respond quickly to such blast from the past! :D

@TheUnhandledException of course, @Mith always delivers perfectly. ;-)

M.A.R.

dear propmt stakc how cn i ask chatgpt 2 do my theesis kthxbai

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

buya?

M.A.R.

@ShadwoWizrd y did u downrate

Pet Linux

Can moderators edit my suggested edit without any direct signs?

M.A.R.

I dunno, can they?

This message has been edited by a moderator to remove classified information.

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

16:12

@PetLinux nope

Any action leave signs, even by mods.

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack then my hands do that I not see!!

:D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux ?

Pet Linux

@ShadowWizardStrikesBack I edited a post and it got accepted. Then I see that I edited that part that I didn't lodged in my brain. :-D

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back

@PetLinux ohh

Tim Stone

@TheUnhandledException :O

Shadow Wizard Strikes Back