Tavern on the Meta

1:47 AM

From Reviews:

247

A: What did the ORIGINAL Stack Overflow look like?

This is what Stack Overflow used to look like back in the day. Yeah we had enter all of our IP packets manually man. You kids don't know. This whole black and white thing was pure luxury after the black-only monitor that I had before.

Rob

2:47 AM

🥞- Stacking it, flour (flower) with extra butter:

1

Q: What does *description* in query refer to?

A nice guy @rene gave the answer to keywords search on SEDE might need improvement builder.Where(@" qs.Title LIKE @search OR qs.[Description] LIKE @search", new { search = '%' + searchCriteria.SearchTerm + '%' }); So it is looking for your search text as is in eith...

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

0

A: Homework type question policies

TLDR: You shouldn't bother about this occourance, people here always have the best interest in mind. If you consider yourself an expert in Physics, or a specific area thereof, please stay! Stack Exchange is always interested in getting new talent into the community. It is not possible to write ...

I haven't had a chance to fully read this answer, but I noticed it was posted after the question had already been closed (the restriction is client-side only for the first 4 hours of posting). What do others think about it?

John Dvorak

I think this restriction should be strictened; or do you mean regarding what the answer says?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

3:00 AM

@JohnDvorak What the answer says

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

4:17 AM

If anyone has CV rights on workplace, we've got a bunch of troll questions coming in and our mods appear to all be AFK

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

4:55 AM

@JourneymanGeek I just saw in the news that Jamaica is refusing entry to Singaporeans as a result of the coronavirus outbreak

Cindy Meister

6:36 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog That it first needs extensive editing by an English-speaker to begin to make it understandable, for one. And that it needs editing, generally, to tighten it up. I can well believe it took the person 5 hours to write it...

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

6:53 AM

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/16565609/barry-allen

M.A.R.

8:47 AM

1

Q: Are moderators required to write real answers to posts questioning their actions?

I understand moderators have a tough job but sometimes a normal user doesn't understand why their flag was declined or why their post was closed or deleted without sufficient explanation by a moderator. So these disgruntled users often come to meta sites to voice their concerns. However, some mo...

discussion meta moderators declined-flags

No, the answers should be integers o.o

Meta has been weird these past couple of days.

A side effect of featured-ness?

Esp. that Kevin guy. I have no idea what they're trying to do.

πάντα ῥεῖ

He's a bit annoying yes. Trying to bring arguments about things which have been discussed ad nauseam in the past already.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Morning! Here is a good laugh:

Was sure those are drawings of monkey, took me a while to realize it's a man with face mask.... o_O

M.A.R.

@πάνταῥεῖ No not that, new folks always need a warm-up

But it's uncommon to see elaborate answers from a new user to another new user on a question that's definitely going to be closed.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@Yaakov what beard type you have? ;)

@M.A.R. TL;DR? I was away...

πάντα ῥεῖ

I just have a greybeard ;-)

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

8:55 AM

@JohnDvorak sure you can, didn't you watch zombie movies?! :D

Pretty sure @M.A.R has no beard...

@M.A.R. Montrose?

M.A.R.

I have something between an anchor and a circle beard

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Anyway, you can't have "guy" and "they" in same sentence, it... makes little sense. If it's a "guy" it's "him". :D

M.A.R.

SO YEAH.

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou That's an improvement to my previous messages

rene

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou it is nice there is an official guide which beard style still makes you look good with a face mask.

M.A.R.

Strictly speaking, singular "they" is really not a topic to be strictly speaking about

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

8:58 AM

@rene hehe. It's about Corona risk

M.A.R.

@rene Right? People think everything through

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Red "x" means it's a risky type of beard. ;)

M.A.R.

But what if you get sick while shaving.

rene

If you get infected, better get infected while looking good ...

πάντα ῥεῖ

^True that

M.A.R.

8:59 AM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Lots of new questions are more misguided than they could have been

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. so don't share razors with other people? ;)

@M.A.R. maybe the new Ask Question page confuse people

M.A.R.

What if there are no unused razors and you need to . . . GET OUT to get some?

There are zombies out there man!

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. order from Amazon

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou well it's not the half of it. I dunno, it's just weird

If it keeps being weird you'd notice it

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou What if there are no rain forests nearby

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. might be deliberate, I've seen people trolling on purpose by posting valid but crappy stuff.

M.A.R.

9:01 AM

That adds to the weirdness, yeah

If something on the internet is too innocent, you can't help but wonder if it's trolling or baiting for something

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. easy, order from Alibaba instead.

@M.A.R. too true

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou What if there are no rain forests or ancient Arab pirates and magic voice recognition stones?

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Fun side effect of the Corona, at least here, is that the media publish full time line of people who got infected, e.g. where did they ate exactly and in what hours.

M.A.R.

Lol

That's funny and pointless

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

There was a man who ate every single day only in restaurants.

Sadly enough, one of them is in my city. :/

M.A.R.

9:04 AM

Food tester maybe

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Oh, there are many more in mine

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. Nah, same restaurant every time.

M.A.R.

A cowboy then

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. more restaurants?

@M.A.R. corona boy

M.A.R.

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou . . . Sure

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Also interesting fact, so far Corona didn't infect even a single child. (below 10)

Yaakov Ellis

9:06 AM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou just a normal beard. Somewhere between long stubble and full beard, depending on how long it's been since I gave myself a trim

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

It's actually as if someone made a virus to kill only certain people.

@M.A.R. good for you! ;)

@M.A.R. not pointless, as the orders are for anyone who was in one of those places in the same time as the infected person was to get into self quarantine of two weeks.

M.A.R.

You can't ask people nicely.

Some of this liberalism has already backfired, you know

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. well it works here, to some extent. Dozens of thousands of people do it.

M.A.R.

OTOH, China seems to have it under control for now

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Of course some don't, but most do.

M.A.R.

9:08 AM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou It takes ten that don't

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. yeah that's the sad part, but still, those who do help to slow the advance of the virus.

@YaakovEllis so the mask fits? ;)

M.A.R.

Also, I can't believe we're doing better than Italy. Is our healthcare system that good?

Yaakov Ellis

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou according to this chart, looks like I am in trouble

M.A.R.

Or, lemme rephrase: Is Italy's healthcare system that crappy?

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@JNat thanks!

(x4 )

M.A.R.

9:10 AM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou thanks!

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. thanks!

M.A.R.

Here's a multiplication sign: ×

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou thanks!

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. too small

I prefer big. (signs)

@M.A.R found the Kevin you mentioned.... pretty sure he's answer banned by now. Problem solved. ;)

Journeyman Geek

9:28 AM

@YaakovEllis you can always mow your beard when you need one

Yaakov Ellis

I wonder how I would look with a "soul patch"

Journeyman Geek

Evil. 🤣

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

:P

Journeyman Geek

Everyone looks evil with a soul patch

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@M.A.R. I don't think health care system is relevant, it's pure luck. Or lack of it.

Rob

9:48 AM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou That is true:

12 hours ago, by Rob

The Black Knight stands against all advice.

rene

→ 36 messages moved to Chimney

πάντα ῥεῖ

Are people really still wearing a "toothbrush" nowadays??

Journeyman Geek

Uhm. Hopefully no

πάντα ῥεῖ

I am afraid there are some doing so even on purpose.

Mithical

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Tourism has been brought to a screeching halt.

Which is absolutely totally fine when you depend on tourism as your main source of income. Absolutely fine. Great.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

10:13 AM

@πάνταῥεῖ what's that?

@Mithical at least you have some time off.... ;)

But yeah, it sucks.... government must compensate those who get hurt financially.

Mithical

The rest of the year is time off. Vacation season is supposed to be the busy time... that's when 85% of business is.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

:(

Rob

Here's the lineup at JFK International Airport yesterday:

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Look at that image you posted recently. In Germany we call that "Hitlerbärtchen".

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@Rob wow. Here's it's still not empty:

Rob

10:21 AM

Busy

Mithical

A lot emptier than the last time I was there

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ Hitler moustache? How is it related to a tooth brush?

@Mithical that's for sure...

πάντα ῥεῖ

Toothbrush moustache

The toothbrush moustache is a moustache style that is shaved at the edges, leaving three to five centimeters of facial hair above the center of the lip. The sides of the moustache are vertical (or nearly vertical) rather than tapered, giving the moustache hairs the appearance of toothbrush bristles that are attached to the nose. It was made famous by such comedians as Charlie Chaplin and Oliver Hardy. The style first became popular in the United States in the late 19th century—from there it spread to Germany and elsewhere—reaching a height of popularity in the inter-war years, before becomi...

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

oh

πάντα ῥεῖ

And Hitler left a bad taste on that fashion ...

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

10:26 AM

Another innocent victim of Hitler... :/

Journeyman Geek

@Mithical same at my local airport

@πάνταῥεῖ he has a lot to answer for.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou I like Oliver Hardy and Charlie Chaplin of course though.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Corona might not destroy humanity physically, but it surely destroys the world economics, in ways that might not be possible to fix.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Didn't I post [Dont Panic!] yesterday?

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ this makes me think, what brand of socks did he wear? Was it also affected after the war? :)

Journeyman Geek

10:29 AM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou eh. It'll recover in some fashion

Rob

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Photo from a year ago:

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Rob ????

Rob

and live wait times: jfkairport.com/#

@πάνταῥεῖ ?????

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Check this. Also available in "brown" ;-)

@Rob Well, it took some time :-P

Rob

Sometimes it takes longer than the 1 1/2 seconds that you waited.

πάντα ῥεῖ

10:35 AM

It just looked like you wanted to increase the tension unneccessarily :P

Dramaturgical style trick

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ nah, imgur API is very slow, for years. Either for everyone, or just for SE which doesn't pay enough, still stuck with whatever bargain Jeff made long ago.

So uploading image usually take 5 seconds, sometimes 10 and 20. (size doesn't matter, 1k image takes same time to upload as 2 mb)

I learned to upload first, then write "here is the pic". ;)

πάντα ῥεῖ

^That. I am getting prepared to post such stuff when I do ;)

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ well can't expect everyone to behave same way as we do, can we? :P

πάντα ῥεῖ

We can teach them though, no?

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

status-not-a-sock

@Rob you in there?

@πάνταῥεῖ nah, we can only lead by example. ;)

πάντα ῥεῖ

10:42 AM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Scroll a bit down, what's proposed about other peoples bought.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ I... don't understand the language, so hard to tell what's going on in the page. :(

Rob

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou I'm in the background of the first photo, that's why everyone deserted the place.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ this? Looks like plain boring black socks... that's what he used?

@Rob ohhh..... now it all makes more sense!

:D

going to eat fish

Mithical

*Gollum perks up*

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou It's a bit complicated to explain the full context with the tie and the particular german politician (Gauland) it refers too. I could try to send you an eMail if you think it's worth it.

Rob

10:54 AM

John Dvorak

11:15 AM

You know you're supposed to avoid crowded areas.

Oh, wait...

πάντα ῥεῖ

Looks like everyone's just brave ;-)

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ you can send, yeah... but I might take some time to read/understand. :)

@JohnDvorak nice try. I see you hiding below that chair.

πάντα ῥεῖ

11:31 AM

Where's Waldo in that pic?

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@πάνταῥεῖ on the ceiling

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

12:02 PM

> My name jack and I spammer

@JNat fresh cross site spammer for your caring. Thanks! :)

Thought spam on SO survive less time than other sites, turns out I was wrong...

No mods active there now?

Not even a single downvote after 5 minutes. :/

Rob

12:17 PM

Some people read just the title and decide: 🏾🏾🏾

djsmiley2k TMW

12:37 PM

we went to costco

it's chaos

Journeyman Geek

Was it murder on the sales floor?

g.co/kgs/NfgLKE

...boooo

Resistance Is Futile

1:02 PM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou I am not longer flagging spam. And I deeply hate spam. It is really hard for me not to flag spam... but, here we are...

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@djsmiley2kTMW chaos or just empty shelves?

@JourneymanGeek huh? Why not the direct url?

Journeyman Geek

Cause Google is dumb and I am on my phone

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@ResistanceIsFutile I was in such hiatus for a while too, but... it's pointless. :/

@JourneymanGeek lol

So copy&paste of your Google search result resulted in that?

For me it opens the YouTube app, where I have to tap "share" then choose clipboard option.

Journeyman Geek

Uhm yup

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

But yeah, have to open the vid first.

Resistance Is Futile

1:12 PM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou well, last year I had hard time not doing anything, but after SE fired CMs... it is really not hard anymore... I occasionally still DV, CV and DELV... but no answering questions and flagging spam. Maybe it is pointless... but it feels right.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@ResistanceIsFutile can't argue with that, and glad you're at least still here. :)

!!/coffee Resist

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou brews a cup of Ristretto for @Resist

Resistance Is Futile

I am not going anywhere :)

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@Rist for @Res

;)

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ResistanceIsFutile Your Nick just tells it, It's a bit futile to strike about these actions.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

1:15 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ Nick isn't mine

He's about my age.

So even if he's 5-6 years younger, can't technically be his father. :D

πάντα ῥεῖ

Misclicked.

Resistance Is Futile

lol

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

hmm... not sure about @Resistance, but even if she's older than Nick in 10-20 years.... doubt he's hers..... :D

Resistance Is Futile

I kind of like the irony...

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Unless... you have a son called Nick?! @Resi

Resistance Is Futile

1:17 PM

nope

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

hehe

Journeyman Geek

1:29 PM

@ResistanceIsFutile that was stinky... But also kinda freed to our ex cms to talk. I didn't hear anything of Robert but Shog got another job.

And topping up thr CM team would be a sign of good faith.

Resistance Is Futile

Yep

berserk

2:10 PM

0/

πάντα ῥεῖ

@JourneymanGeek That was mega stinky, yes! But I believe that SE Inc. has reconsidered how to deal with their communities meanwhile.

There were some ridiculous staff people showing up in the way.

rene

@berserk \o

berserk

:o Hello flower sir

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

hides

berserk

guess I am in trouble..

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

2:16 PM

peeks behind @ber on the Tavern

berserk

@Bart I have your glasses B-)

Journeyman Geek

@πάνταῥεῖ I trust a few people and work with them but...

Change has to be seen, not promised

berserk

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou shadow wizard indeed :v

πάντα ῥεῖ

@JourneymanGeek I am still waiting about the change promises, true that.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@berserk I also ear you

πάντα ῥεῖ

2:20 PM

Another bot??

Journeyman Geek

Well - most of the medium early promises have been met

berserk

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou You surely have big ears... Also nice hat :p

πάντα ῥεῖ

@JourneymanGeek That's what's giving me some hope for improvement.

Resistance Is Futile

@πάνταῥεῖ There will be no change, because nothing has changed now... I am not counting solving technical issues as change... I am talking about trust and respecting people

Mithical

@ResistanceIsFutile So what concrete changes can SE take now that will help?

πάντα ῥεῖ

2:24 PM

@ResistanceIsFutile They're fairly bad about that since the CEO change, yes.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@berserk you like my ears, @M.A.R likes my eyebrows.... nice.... :P

Resistance Is Futile

The only thing that could possibly help is reinstating Monica

terdon

That's not an option.

1) legal crap. 2) She almost certainly doesn't want to anymore.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@ResistanceIsFutile the new hire of SE appears to be a good and decent person with good intentions. But..... at this point it still looks like they brought her to distinguish the fires, and they will let her go as soon as she'll do her job. So.... my trust in SE is also far from being fixed.

Resistance Is Futile

then I cannot possibly trust the company

berserk

2:27 PM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou And remember what unikitty liked? :p

terdon

I do have some hope the new meta commitment might help.

Resistance Is Futile

there is no legal crap standing in a way

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ResistanceIsFutile Bah, that's bull. And the decay even started earlier.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@ResistanceIsFutile Not as long as the management stays, true.

πάντα ῥεῖ

We want a time machine?

terdon

2:28 PM

@ResistanceIsFutile Apparently there is. Neither party can talk about it, and reinstatement is simply not on the table. If that's the only thing that could possibly sway you, I'm afraid you're out of luck. :/

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@berserk I remember what he didn't like. :P

Resistance Is Futile

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou exactly, there is no clean slate, because people that are accountable are still in the company... if the company wants to start fresh they either have to reinstate Monica or get rid of the people that got us here

berserk

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Bleh!

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

lol

Resistance Is Futile

@terdon I am not hoping that will happen.. I am just saying what could help...

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

2:29 PM

@ResistanceIsFutile second option is the only option that might happen. But not any time soon.

Resistance Is Futile

@πάνταῥεῖ Yes, please

Journeyman Geek

@ResistanceIsFutile I actually disagree there

terdon

@ResistanceIsFutile I hear you, but if the one thing that could help is impossible, then you need to rethink your position.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@terdon why? It's one's right to have no faith in someone/something.

Resistance Is Futile

@JourneymanGeek with which part?

terdon

2:31 PM

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Their right? Sure. But if you know the one thing that you want will never happen, then hoping and waiting for it is just a waste of time and effort.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

I don't have faith in even a single political party in Israel, I didn't vote against my principles just to say "I voted".

They're all bad.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ResistanceIsFutile Then let's go back to the good old days when Jeff was around here please. ;-)

Journeyman Geek

There's more and more deep seated issues than that. What happened to Monica was both a reflection of that and kind of a one off moment of insanity

Yaakov Ellis

@πάνταῥεῖ I agree

terdon

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou That's true everywhere, sadly. But it's certainly true for you guys :/

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

2:32 PM

@terdon wonder what you know/heard?

Resistance Is Futile

@JourneymanGeek I know...

terdon

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Oh, less than you, I'm sure. But I've been vaguely following Israeli politics from afar for years and have never been impressed by any of the choices.

Mithical

Something I've been saying since September... most people do not have all the details on the specifics of what exactly happened with Monica. There are details at play that make it not a black-and-white situation. The way SE handled the situation was atrocious, but most people don't have the full context about what happened... since most of it happened in private.

Journeyman Geek

Granted there were many over time but it's less about one single event than trying to patch and refactor the overall culture

Mithical

So... using "reinstating Monica" is the end-all for rebuilding trust is, IMO, not the wisest choice.

πάντα ῥεῖ

2:33 PM

@YaakovEllis It's probably a slow process.

terdon

@Mithical At the end of the day, the details aren't relevant. What we know is enough: SE reacted blindly instead of thinking and have been running around like headless chickens ever since.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Past is past, period.

terdon

Even assuming Monica absolutely had to be removed because she was the devil incarnate, the way it was handled is inexcusable.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@terdon well, the new party started as a promise, just to prove themselves as the worst thing possible since they're built on hatred, and nothing more.

Resistance Is Futile

@Mithical I have enough context

Yaakov Ellis

2:34 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ It is both very slow and extremely fast at the same time

Journeyman Geek

@ResistanceIsFutile eh

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

Sadly enough, great many people hate our PM so much they don't care.

Yaakov Ellis

things have never worked this fast internally related to community issues, and we are not letting up. Instead, new processes to be put into place to keep it going (and ensure that more voices - both and in and out of the company - are heard)

Journeyman Geek

@YaakovEllis to be blunt... You don't really fix years of debt at once

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@Mithical you mean she also offended people or caused indirect harm? Some said it, some even out loud, it's no secret. Still, not relevant.

terdon

2:35 PM

For what it's worth though, I have seen some very encouraging signs from the company in the last month. I do believe they've finally realized that they can't just ignore, attack and insult the community and then go on as if nothing had happened. And it does appear that they are actively trying to improve.

Mithical

@terdon Of course. But just because it was handled badly (very very badly) doesn't mean that the original conclusion is necessarily incorrect, or that things can't be done to fix things without going back on that one thing.

Yaakov Ellis

@JourneymanGeek agreed. Which is why anyone who is asking for all of it to happen in one week are in my opinion not being at all realistic

Andras Deak

@terdon was "firing Shog and Robert" in the past month? I keep forgetting

terdon

@Mithical Sure, I'm saying the original conclusion isn't relevant.

Journeyman Geek

@YaakovEllis yes

Resistance Is Futile

2:37 PM

@YaakovEllis FWIW, no matter how good process is, there is always some amount of trust needed, right now I don't trust the company one bit... that does not mean that I don't trust some people working there...

Mithical

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou There's more context than just that.

terdon

@AndrasDeak Yeah. The good bits started after that. And I'm not saying they're enough to outweigh all the crap. Only that the company does seem to be taking some concrete steps to improve.

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak right before the new CPO came in

And yeah

That nearly made me quit

Yaakov Ellis

@JourneymanGeek like: the day before

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek you mean right before the new CPO introduced herself, right?

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

2:37 PM

@Mithical still not relevant... whatever Monica did is בטל בשישים in front of what they did to her.

Yaakov Ellis

@AndrasDeak no. she started the day after

Journeyman Geek

No

Andras Deak

@YaakovEllis ah, I didn't know that, thanks

Yaakov Ellis

she didn't introduce herself on meta for a good month

Journeyman Geek

Literally right before she started

Mithical

2:38 PM

What I'm saying is, don't campaign for indiscriminate reinstatement of someone who was removed for a reason - even though the way in which it was handled was atrocious. Focus instead on other things that can be done to rebuild trust.

Andras Deak

wonder why they had to fire them in such a rush, then

terdon

I've said this before, but SE acted with more decency when they had to demod someone for being arrested for pedophilia! Nobody ever claimed Monica's actions were worse than that.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@Mithical I never called to reinstatement Monica. I "just" lost trust in the company for what they did, the way they did it, and the way they mis-treated the whole thing afterwards.

Mithical

@terdon Of course.

Resistance Is Futile

Once broken, trust is the hardest thing to repair... Theresa seems extremely competent, and possibly trustworthy... but under the circumstances, that is not enough

Journeyman Geek

2:39 PM

@AndrasDeak I was suspecious about it too

Yaakov Ellis

@terdon concrete steps is the name of the game. We are going to be trying our best to have concrete actions be the norm. And much better communication. And involving more voices. And better protections for all

Mithical

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

:8275562 who?

Yaakov Ellis

Each person can decide if/when they will trust again

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

@YaakovEllis yup :)

Andras Deak

2:40 PM

@terdon for being a predator

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

I trust @Yaakov

Mithical

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou Not you, necessarily, but for the people who say that the only way forwards is by reinstating Monica.

djsmiley2k TMW

@ShadowWizardisEarForYou you know who if you know who

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

But sadly enough.... he's not the company.

Resistance Is Futile

@Mithical before SE fired the CMs, not reinstating Monica was possible... now this is only fixable thing left...

djsmiley2k TMW

2:40 PM

and if you don't, it doesn't matter anymore.

terdon

@YaakovEllis Let's hope so. You're taking some good steps, that's for sure.

Journeyman Geek

@ResistanceIsFutile if you expect magic... There's no rabbit in the hat 😄

It's going to be slow. Maybe little painful

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

dang... have to go buy shnitzels before they're over.

Mithical

@ResistanceIsFutile I'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Resistance Is Futile

I am way past expecting magic... maybe in few years I will reconsider my position...

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

2:41 PM

Magic? I can do some as a Wizard.

casts Light

Resistance Is Futile

Your magic ins not strong enough

djsmiley2k TMW

I think you maybe just need to re-cast your reasons for doing what you do

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

wonders why Tavern is suddenly totally dark

djsmiley2k TMW

you don't do it for SE, that's all.

Yaakov Ellis

@ResistanceIsFutile there is never magic in cases like this. Just hard work. Being open. Being honest.

Shadow Wizard is Ear For You

2:42 PM

runs away in shame

djsmiley2k TMW

I never did it for SE, and the stuff they've done, I object to, but I still answer questions etc

because I do that because I enjoy it

If I stopped enjoying it, I'd stop doing it.

I feel like discussion is now mute... nothing in the past is going to be reverted

take it as it is, and act forth as you choose to do so.

Resistance Is Futile

@YaakovEllis there are visible improvements in that areas, for sure :)

Yaakov Ellis

@djsmiley2kTMW so then here is an open question to anyone: What would make you enjoy asking/answering/interacting on SE/SO more? Feel free to reply here, email me at yaakov@(you-know-the-domain), twitter, or whatever.

11

djsmiley2k TMW

@YaakovEllis I don't... not enjoy it

Yaakov Ellis

@djsmiley2kTMW what do you enjoy then?

djsmiley2k TMW

2:44 PM

Sure, it'd be awesome if at 10k, 20k, 30k I got swag or something, but other than that, Ijust do it because I do it

I'm not hugely active, because I simply have a lot of other stuff to do too

@YaakovEllis I enjoy fixing things

both online, and in the real world

I take broken things, and make them better, and hopefully spread knowledge.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@YaakovEllis That's extremely broad :P

Mithical

Stack is taking steps now that show that they're trying to change direction so quickly that they've given themselves whiplash. The most major things they can reasonably do now that would drastically improve company-community relations is to make some internal staff changes that put community people in roles where their voices can carry more weight.

djsmiley2k TMW

Sorry @YaakovEllis I realise this maybe entirely 'useless' to you.

I think maybe SE needs to understand WHY people do the things they do

Because right now, who's ever seen a question on a survey saying "why do you answer questions?"

Yaakov Ellis

@djsmiley2kTMW (hard part: there are a tons of reasons why different people do things that they do)

terdon

@YaakovEllis For me, getting to a point where I don't feel dirty by associating with SE. At the moment, I still feel that I'm going against my own ethics for still being here but I continue because I'm addicted.

3

I like the noises the company has been making, but for the moment they're still mostly words and the unethical actions have not been addressed.

I know they will never be addressed, so the only thing I can hope for is that enough good actions will come in the future to eventually tip the balance again. But it will take time.

4

Yaakov Ellis

2:47 PM

@djsmiley2kTMW I think that we know why people answer questions. But (at least to me), answering questions on SO can be really hard and frustrating. If you enjoy helping people with things, maybe removing the frustrations around answering and interacting would be good for you

Resistance Is Futile

@terdon something like that...

djsmiley2k TMW

@YaakovEllis ok, so I'm mostly active on SU

WHat's annoying, is people arguing with you when they're wrong :D

especially when you've correctly answered their incorrectly asked question

Resistance Is Futile

Probably the thing that bothers me the most is "Monica is free to go through reinstatement process" if the process is fair, she would pass and in that case, she could have been reinstated without it because she was also removed without the process. Insisting on the process makes me not trust the process... and the people that might be involved in it

7

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Mithical They seem to have better people now to throw at the front line. Sorry for mentioning their cannon fodder.

Yaakov Ellis

@ResistanceIsFutile we're working on that

djsmiley2k TMW

2:58 PM

Sooo number of cases doubled overnight in the UK

it's already too late to isolate people here now.

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