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01:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

3:00 PM
@ResistanceIsFutile Nobody trusts the process, it's a sham.
 
@djsmiley2kTMW It's nomal for viruses to increase infections in an exponetial manner. So what?
 
@YaakovEllis it will take a loooong time
 
@πάνταῥεῖ So this whole 'self isolate thing' isn't working xD
People keeping telling me it's working
 
@terdon I know. That's what we are working on
 
we're following 'known good proceedure'
 
3:01 PM
The process was, frankly, an insult to our intelligence from the beginning: the same people will look at the same evidence and magically come to a different conclusion.
 
except.... clearly it's not working :D
 
@djsmiley2kTMW I think swag is something we might want to pressure for in the longer term 😄
 
@YaakovEllis I've heard. I hope y'all can come up with something better.
 
@JourneymanGeek it certainly made me feel valued, but at the same time, it needs to be fair? right? correct? something.
 
@djsmiley2kTMW Just avoid contacts, that's all.
 
3:02 PM
@JourneymanGeek Is it really? Swag is basically free advertising for the company. I used to like having stuff with the SE logo. I now would be ashamed to be seen in public with it.
 
with the entire world @πάνταῥεῖ?
that'd be so easy if I didn't have 2 kids and have to go shopping.
or work
or anything else
 
@djsmiley2kTMW I guess the ad hoc ness of it (so the need for keeping stock) and fulfillment are issues
 
@JourneymanGeek yeah, I don't think it'd be a huge job, but at the same time, it's something someones got to take care of
 
@terdon well reputations can be rehabilitated 🤣
 
@terdon if you don't believe it can be fixed, might as well quit right now eh?
 
3:04 PM
@djsmiley2kTMW Don't use physical money is one good advise I can give.
 
I mostly pay with a debit card anyway
but sometimes that's unavoidable
 
@djsmiley2kTMW I'm not saying it can't be fixed. Only that as it stands, I don't want to give them free advertising. I wouldn't wear my SE t-shirts in public for example.
 
What I am wondering, is how much of Wuhan haven't been infected?
@terdon and that's fine.
do you 'need' something to replace the free swag?
Or maybe, change your view point - "I wear this teeshirt as I'm proud of the fact I cost them money to make it"
 
@djsmiley2kTMW not that much... 11 million people and less than 100K cases...
 
@djsmiley2kTMW All I'm saying is that the swag isn't of interest to me. I'd much rather they focus on making real change instead.
 
3:06 PM
@djsmiley2kTMW eh. My original SU T shirt is kinda an object of pride for me
 
@ResistanceIsFutile interesting
are they still testing?
 
Yup. And the city is on lockdown
 
So basically, shutting down the entire city, and waiting, is a 'solution'
the question is, is it hte right one...
 
Well it's one cause they blew the initial response
 
I think we've blown it too
 
3:19 PM
@djsmiley2kTMW It might be too late to isolate the sick, but it isn't too late to isolate the healthy.
 
I think we should be doing the opposite @DavidA
we should be pre-emptively isolating those who will be most effected
 
@djsmiley2kTMW You mean round up the over 65s and those with respiratory issues and put them all together so they can get infected?
 
No
limit visiting them as much as possible
 
And note that while the numbers may have doubled, they're still seriously low. 60 cases in a country of what, 50 million people?
63 million
 
yah
yet there's 1 in this city of 325949
and normally once one appears, a few more spring up days later
and then it repeats, doubling every 2-3 days
 
3:28 PM
@djsmiley2kTMW ^^
Probably not real, but still accurate :)
 
My Aussie friends say it is real... they bought it all...
 
I might have missed a memo. I thought your nose went runny from that virus.
 
3:44 PM
@rene Well, if you are locked down, you don't want to run out of toilet paper ;)
 
@YaakovEllis first, this should be pinned IMO (/cc @rene @Mithical). Second, while my main goal on SE/SO is not to enjoy, I'd be happy to know I trust the company and the people leading it to take the correct decisions. At this point, it's very far from there.
@terdon I just got back from the supermarket. Pretty large branch, it usually has TONS of toilet paper. Now it's all..... empty. Totally. Not even a single toilet paper roll left, just empty shelves. Same with rice and pasta.
No such signs though. Yet. ;)
 
Wow...
 
@terdon it makes me lol
nothing a virus loves more, than lots of people packed into a small space, all handling the same objects while shouting at each other.
 
Luckily I bought two packs (24 rolls in each) couple of weeks ago, before the Corona hit, because there was a discount. :)
So I'm still good for a while.
 
We had to get loo roll today, we always buy it at costco
 
3:48 PM
(Average consumption is one roll per day - still, family of 5 ;))
 
it was chaos, was limited to 1 pack (of 188 rolls) per person
 
@djsmiley2kTMW 188??? omg
How you carry it???
Biggest pack I know is of 48 rolls.
 
it's 12 packs? of 4
or something like that
 
Usually I buy double 24, which costs less.
 
wait no, 12x9?
 
3:50 PM
@djsmiley2kTMW 4 packs of 48 each?
 
hmmm might be 4x4x12
 
@djsmiley2kTMW oh. Still, must weight a lot.
 
anyway it's big :D
but yeah, it was busier than it was at christmas.
 
Also "loo roll" is wrong, there are so many other uses for the paper. :D
For example...
And, time for the weekly Tik Tok rant!
 
Sigh. I'm going to have to go buy some rice, pasta and paper. This is ridiculous, but because people are so paranoid, I'll end up starving if I don't. Starving and filthy.
 
4:01 PM
@ShadowWizardisEarForYou indeed
 
@terdon funny thing is we probably have 2 weeks worth of rice normally. And we don't use TP
 
4:25 PM
@terdon I can manage without paper in toilets, problem is my nose which is constantly bit runny. So I'll end up having to buy expensive tissue paper and go bankrupt. :D
 
Rob
It would be worse if it was the other way around, count yourself lucky.
 
4:42 PM
Happy birthday to me
8
 
@YaakovEllis happy birth day!!!
Now go celebrate with your family! :D
 
Rob
4:58 PM
🎂
 
@YaakovEllis it's your birthday Happy birthday.
hmmm ther was meant to be a question mark there somewhere lol
 
 
2 hours later…
7:11 PM
@ResistanceIsFutile I'd like to address this, since I've heard it a lot. It's not... Wrong, but... I think there might be some value in understanding how it came about the way that it did.
This all started with a violation of an old, old principle: "admonish in private, praise in public". There are times and places that require deviating from this maxim, but they are few and far between; I've found that the necessary work can usually be accomplished by keeping targeted admonishments private, and falling back on statements of principle in public.
By doing so, the target then is helped to correct without being tarred before their peers, while those they have hurt are able to take comfort in knowing that the stated principles apply to everyone. The only loss is the thirst for vengeance - and sating this thirst should rarely be our goal.
So upon observing this violation, I sat down to write a formal process for admonishing moderators, hoping to prevent the mistake noted above from recurring.
As other people got involved, this process morphed into a process for moderator removal, then spawned another process for reinstatement. But through all of this, the core goals remained the same: the processes should be quick to execute, hard to bias, and transparent to everyone involved.
If worst came to worst, and the details needed to be made public... There should be no reason for anyone to feel betrayed or misrepresented; crucially, the process itself should not suffer due to an introduction of such "sunlight".
Critically: for a moderator to go through one of these processes, they should have seen little practical difference from a moderator having a conversation with me in years prior.
They should have felt that they understood the reason for the conversation, felt empowered to voice their own thoughts or concerns, defend or explain any actions they'd taken, and walked away clear on what was expected of them - and what they should expect from the company. IOW: it should have been exactly what Monica had been asking for.
...Then management got involved and larded them up with overhead and black boxes. We tried to push back against that, arguing that they would hurt confidence, but to no effect. When the processes were published, the reaction was as we had predicted: a deep suspicion instead of trust.
In the end, it came out that we had been working at cross purposes: our goal was to design processes that led to effective communication, while management's goal was processes that ensured Monica would not be allowed back as a moderator. In short, our efforts were doomed from the start by bad faith, and the public reaction to the processes reflected this.
17
With all that said... I still believe that the original idea behind those processes is valuable. Having a process for the company to follow could aid in avoiding precisely the mistakes that led to all of last year's nonsense. But to develop such a process, it is necessary that it be both written and executed in good faith; indeed, a well-written process should make it obvious to all when someone tries to execute it in bad faith!
My hope is that Teresa is sufficiently strong to push back against legal, and restore enough autonomy to the CMs that they are once again empowered to develop processes that serve the people. If this happens - and there are some signs that it may be happening - then it may yet be possible to avoid a repeat of last year's debacle.
2
 
7:37 PM
I've found that one of the best traits I've noticed in people is the ability to entertain the notion that they're wrong and that their "holy mission" might not be everything they think it is.
 
7:56 PM
Glad you found employment @Shog9.
 
@ShadowWizardisEarForYou 2130 recovered here vs. 630 in Italy, that's no luck
There's probably something missing though, it's too good to be true
@YaakovEllis Just don't exchange kisses
I wonder if giving someone a coronavirus test kit as a birthday gift is a good joke or a bad joke
 
Probably not a joke at all ....
 
depends on delivery
 
@Shog9 Ty for the insights
 
@djsmiley2kTMW 👍
 
8:05 PM
@JohnDvorak Corona SWAT at your home's door ;D
 
@M.A.R. Italy is a lot of old people
 
@πάνταῥεῖ np - hope it's useful in interpreting future communications. "When someone tells you they're not being transparent - believe them."
 
who live in large families with the youngesters
 
must ... not ... say ... "not for long"
 
lol too soon.
 
8:06 PM
@Shog9 I noticed that
 
a lot of families where the grandparents will be looking after the kids as much as mum and dad etc
 
The main takeaway from that should be, of course, that @Catija thinks I'm a dork.
 
@Shog9 That is my hope, too.
 
3 confirmed cases in this city now
 
8:18 PM
@djsmiley2kTMW Expect exponential grow, as it's normal.
 
yup
i expect 7 tomorrow
 
For me, other than the obvious non-SE-related factors, it's something probably obvious and yet impractical at this point: A mindset of impartiality and "deserves", rather than "is given".
For the past couple of years, the company (and the community in response) have been busy tailoring the wrong things to various audiences. *Welcoming* people has come with the cost of overshadowing or even harming the main incentives: To post quality stuff, and get quality feedback on it.
It's become too bloody complicated, and cumbersome, to post a question, comment, or answer, and be rid of the previously
Most of the previous features, even ones the community didn't object much to, worked towards reducing the friction between the part of the community that didn't care about moderation, and the part that did. It is, at best, tangential to the main goal. We all want the whole thing to be frictionless, but let's be honest, will it ever be, when folks come to meta comparing close voting to war crimes?
And the blog posts are still being written, and people are still jerks to each other on their bad days
I don't deny that it hasn't had a positive impact, of course, but it's also changed how I look at every post, and not in a good way.
"Focus on the content" is a bloody urban legend now.
3
Clears throat, drinks water Thanks for listening, stay tuned for more! Subscribe to our channel!
 
Rob
9:00 PM
M.A.R., that's essentially what I video-replied; to which he non-ping replied: "Happy birthday to me", so I'm glad that the effort was appreciated. Basically the people asking want to ask a clear question on the correct site, and the people answering want some minor appreciation without extra work from people who skim and either ignore or speed-reply, both without absorbing what's been presented. The few apples in the barrel that don't know their neighbors.
 
9:12 PM
@Rob btw, I didn't realize until now that you video replied. It just happens to be my birthday right now
 
Happy birthday, @YaakovEllis! Wishing you many happy returns, and hopefully something fun besides a virtual Tavern
🤘
 
If by fun you mean lots and lots of dishes to do, then yes, I think that I have lots of fun in my future
 
Oh, and a fast. Can't forget that.
 
Rob
@YaakovEllis No problem, enjoy your party, I also sent you a cake:
4 hours ago, by Rob
🎂
 
@Mithical how can I forget? I fast every year on my birthday
 
Rob
9:22 PM
Oops, so no cake.
 
@Rob Fast starts before sunrise in the morning. So cake right now is just fine
I just have to eat it fast
 
Rob
Fortunately it's virtual cake.
 
You fast on your birthday?
is that a relgious thing, or just something you do?
 
My Hebrew birthday is the day before Purim (ie:right now), which is a fast day for observant Jews
 
9:38 PM
Now I got another question.... what's a 'Hebrew birthday' compared to what I'd concider a 'normal' birthday?
 
Different calendar systems...
The Hebrew calendar is a lunar-based calendar
 
oh, so it'll move compared to the gregorian calendar?
right ok :)
til/.
 
Yeah. Syncs up every 19 years or so
 
10:01 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ and 3 dead too
I guess there's a spike in deaths at first, 1. due to the low level of them, 2. the weakest die quickly? :/
 
10:20 PM
@YaakovEllis One thing would be that those who ask questions do a better job of it. Sometimes, I feel like I spend 80% of my time re-tagging, dv and cv, explaining the same things over and over to "new contributors". I'd also like to see the Aspose ad at the top of the page for my tags go away. I have no interest in the product and bad spamming experiences with the company from my time moderating on MSDN.
And an automatic reminder to new contributors about how to mark an answer rather than typing a "thank you" comment.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:39 PM
@djsmiley2kTMW It doesn't move that much, because every few years a month is added to the Hebrew calendar to keep it balanced with the solar calendar.
 
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